As my marriage was disintegrating and I was dipping my toes into the theories of best interpersonal matches, I spent some time on MBTI sites looking for what wiser and more experienced people said was the best match for an ENTJ, and the consensus seemed to be an INTP or an ISTP.
Although two well-developed individuals of any type can enjoy a healthy relationship, ENTJ's natural partner is the INTP, or the ISTP. AN ENTJ's dominant function of Extraverted Thinking is best-matched with a personality type that is dominanted by Introverted Thinking. The ENTJ/INTP match is ideal, because it also shares the common Intuitive way of looking at the world, but the ENTJ/ISTP match is also very good. How did we arrive at this?
How, indeed?
Well, in MBTI, my LII sister is an INTP and let me say, I like her but I'd never want to be married to her.
And regarding the ISTP, I think they mean an LSI, and I had an LSI for my first GF and again, let me say, I loved her but I didn't want to marry her. And even it we allow some leeway in translation to take the ISTP to mean an SLI, it was an SLI that I was trying to get away from.
So much for theories based upon anecdotes.
lol MBTI sure loves grouping people by basically clubs. That's the problem with a system that says your type can change by the day, it's like the only nearly constant thing they think they can predict.
I think the best dating app that would use socionics ITR would be one that just came out as a regular dating app with a personality quiz that didn't give you a direct label. eHarmony style or something, but hide the socionics bit in some small text so the few English speakers seeking it out can find it without scaring off the general public.
~we're just out here havin a good time~
OK, which type is this woman?
She works as a registered nurse and she is devoted to her father and son. She works all the time since her divorce and doesn't have any hobbies other than doing things around her house. She enjoyed reading about self-care and motivational books when her friend recommended some to her after her separation.
She seems to be completely unable to judge the total costs to her of working at a close or a distant hospital for two different wage rates and hourly schedules. She said, "You never know until you try it."
Her husband cleared out the bank accounts before he left, so she has to work, but she hasn't been able to find a lawyer who will fight for her assets, and keeps getting taken advantage of (she says) by these lawyers who send her bills and accomplish nothing.
During the separation, her husband told her that he had never been happy with her, which completely took her by surprise. He also said that marriage to her (after she became an RN) had worked out pretty well, financially, for him. He's a pipe fitter for GM.
She dresses with extreme good taste and likes restaurants with views of the water.
In her pictures, she normally looks skeptical but looked energized and happy while kayaking on a lake.
Any ideas?
Well you can’t really tell a person’s type based off of their static profile since most people naturally try to tailor the best impression. And even when you meet the person and talked with them, you don’t know if the walls came down or not. It takes a very long time for hobbyists to type others (it’s psychoanalysis) since it’ll be coming from a biased place, especially those who are weak with Se and cannot accurately assess the situation for what it is. My main issue is that through all this shallow, pop psychology treatment MBTI and socionics (along with every typology system) is that in the endless search for self-understanding, most people never quite get there and even when they get close, they change their understanding of who they are and cling to different aspects of their personalities in an attempt to understand themselves as they would like to be instead of what they are. The most common and pathetic version of this process is people often type themselves as something hard to correct, especially superego or superid.
Ooh I'll bite
Strong Fi
Suggests valued Te. Maybe introverted if she doesn't have a lot of energy to keep up with hobbies when she's working a lot.She works all the time since her divorce and doesn't have any hobbies other than doing things around her house.
Took a friend's recommendation, hard to say but maybe Fi valuing and Ni mobilizing? Anybody can be interested in self-development, though.She enjoyed reading about self-care and motivational books when her friend recommended some to her after her separation.
Te-seekingHer husband cleared out the bank accounts before he left, so she has to work, but she hasn't been able to find a lawyer who will fight for her assets, and keeps getting taken advantage of by these lawyers who send her bills and accomplish nothing.
Se-valuingShe dresses with extreme good taste and likes restaurants with views of the water.
I'm going for ESI if you're dual-seeking. I could be wrong.
~we're just out here havin a good time~
Thanks, @megedy.
I thought that dressing well was Si? And that getting into crappy relationships with men and lawyers indicates poor Fi?
If I were to compare her texts to those of ESI's long on this forum, hers have the implicit sense of self that @ashlesha's have but are much more terse, and she completely lacks the sharp wit of kalinoche. I can't actually think of anyone who writes texts like her. They are short, self-oriented, and seem to be missing random words.
I think she might be an ESI but she seems to have been raised by Alphas. Her dad definitely looks Alpha and her husband looks Alpha and her son is LII. She has terrifically strong Si, in the sense that she dresses almost exactly like my SLI ex does. That is, with classic good taste and an eye for colors and quality without being flashy. Her Si is so strong that it scares me, quite frankly. I don't need another SLI and I certainly don't want to date an SEI.
Her Alpha family and her Si could be a low-level problem forever, too. Low level problems are the worst because they don't ever rise to the point of having to be taken care of.
I'm looking at her with more and more scrutiny the longer we text. Maybe that's a Victim trait, but I should probably just stop worrying.
It's a good thing I know women who just want to go out and have a good time, in the meanwhile. No worries with them. Lol.
well now i'm really doubting my type lmfao
if it was just one ex-husband and she tried really hard to make things work and isn't one for a lot of superficial, short relationships, then I'd still say strong Fi since she's devoted to her family. Also re: Se, taste is subjective and can come from a lot of different places.
If you're enjoying talking to her then just keep talking to her lol. If you have natural chemistry, things'll progress. You have more experience now than when you met your ex. You'll spot the warning signs that it won't work out earlier.
~we're just out here havin a good time~
Or poor Ti.
I think she's an SEI. SEI is also one of the most devoted and dutiful types out there.
By the way, dressing well is not always Si, Se people dress well too.
I'm not even a sensor, but I like fashion and have an eye for colours.
Took a friend's recommendation reading self care books seems Fe/Ti
Seems like poor tert-Ti to me.
How strong, can you give examples?
I’ve changed my mind about her. I now think she’s ESI.
Examples of Si are that she dressed impeccably well on our first two dates. Her hair was perfect, her teeth white, her clothes tasteful. She orders food and only eats 2/3 of it to stay slim. I was seeing the same kind of self-presentation that I saw in my SLI ex and see in an SEI-Fe that I work with. Like, a naturally high level of good taste in clothes. It was this high level of what appears to be Si that scared me about her. She has 4D Si, and I could not tell by looking at her if it was valued or if she was just good at it.
But ESI’s are said to be Artists, with themselves being the canvas. I’ve since seen her home.
It was spotless. Dust free. You could eat off the floor. There wasn’t a corner that wasn’t perfectly clean, as if she were on a mission to rid her world of any moral flaws. But her taste in furniture, unlike my SLI ex, is terrible. Everything was clean and in good repair, but it was kind of jarring. Now maybe she didn’t choose everything, but it looks like her house was furnished from yard sales, rather than having a single theme.
(Now that my SLI ex is long gone, my house is starting to look eclectic, too, and I hate that. I seem to be powerless to change it, though, which is why I want to hire an interior decorator (ESE or SEI) to furnish the place, once I get the structure where I want it.)
She showed me her laundry room in the basement. It was very different from the rest of the house. Clean, but dark and cluttered, as if it were her alter-ego. It looked like my basement on a good day.
I somehow feel that an SEI would just have a better sense of how furniture would match than she did. She showed me some really ugly furnishings and said she really should get rid of this, but it has memories for her. So, Fi over Fe.
Last edited by Adam Strange; 01-19-2021 at 08:57 AM.
Or Si. We all know Si people have fondness for things of the past, for memories, nostalgia.
ESI’s are indeed the artists, with themselves being the canvas.
Since when does an artist have very neat, clean and tidy home? A messy environment somehow can lead to creativity they say.
I think ESI's are rarely organised people, seems like they prefer to have things a bit more chaotic.
Why Ti?
Because Ti is a decision making (judging) function, it analyses data and comes up with a decision on what to do based upon logic and how your mind models how things work.
If Ti is low in their stack, 3rd or 4th function, and they don’t use it very often, they will use some other function to make those decisions, in this case for an SEI they use Fe.
Because @Adam Strange (how do we mention username here?) said she seems to be completely unable to judge the total costs to her of working at a close or a distant hospital for two different wage rates and hourly schedules, and she hasn't been able to find a lawyer who will fight for her assets and keeps getting taken advantage of (she says) by these lawyers who send her bills and accomplish nothing.
I think a dominant Ti user would always be thinking about things like the long term implications. But as a low Ti user, such concerns are rarely what they make decisions upon and they prefer simple straight-forward answers.
About the Si?
Si is information gathering (perceiving) function, where you focus on subjective, personal experience, but then you compare those new experience to past experience and memories.
So when compared to Se, Se individual perceives exactly what the senses are telling it, live and in real time.
With Si, the individual perceives mostly stored memories of previous sensory experience, they will experience something real time, but then they will quickly compare it to stored memories in their minds.
That's why people with high Si usually have fondness for things of the past, they somehow like having something to look at, to remind them of how special that experience was. When they remember a favorite experience they can instantly recall how they felt then, and many of the significant details of that experience. Basically they enjoy reminiscing and have a certain sense of nostalgia. I've known so many SEI.
I thought Adam mentioned ‘crappy relationships with men’. Keeping questionable company is something you could also say about ILEs, for example. And even in the case of crappy lawyers, if she uses Fe that much as you try to imply, she wouldn't have gone to lawyers in the first place (I'm sorry, I didn't go up and read his whole post). Something like that what you described can even happen to an SLE if they get lazy and someone can stroke their Ne role somehow. I'm not saying the woman is SLE but that your explanation of why this is Ti mob. does not have to be the reason.
This wording. Where did you get it? (Nostalgia might be stronger with Ni types) Don't make me summon @Tallmo.
Last edited by Rusal; 01-20-2021 at 12:19 AM.
Sicuramente cercherai il significato di questo.
It seems suspect, your statement that five hundred muscovites a day were dying of standard influenza last year in December. That's what Covid-19's stripping away from your ranks right now.
I did find a National Institute of Health paper talking about 90 people dying across all of Russia, if I understood correctly, over an ENTIRE flu season in 2017.
ENTj-Ni sx/so
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"Keeping questionable company is something you could also say about ILEs
Something like that what you described can even happen to an SLE if they get lazy"
Correct. You're not wrong.
Like I said before, poor-Ti. I wasn't talking about Ti-mob. Adam and I were just comparing poor Fi to poor Ti.
Haha, you can summon anyone if you'd like. We're all learning here.
Actually no, I have high Ni and I know nostalgia is not stronger with Ni types.
I would say I do feel nostalgic but that's because of my Fi, which is not often due to my inf-Fi.
I think 2 functions that relate to nostalgia are Fi and Si, which Adam and I were talking about before.
Nostalgia is basically a feeling state, it's a sense of longing for a time when things were right, Fi is the most related to it.
But Si could be a part of it, Si is more like a mental picture of how something tastes or looks and it usually leads down the road of stability, a routine or daily habits, faith in tradition, or a tendency to document what you do, etc.
My own personal experience with many Si-users around me.
Where did you get the quote about Si and memories, exactly? Can you post a link? The one I asked you about in the previous post. There is nothing in socionics about that.
Also, are you Kiana?
Si is about internal impressions that are personal and vary from Si lead to Si lead, as Jung said. How do you go from there to ‘faith in tradition’, which would include unified morals and institutions?
And if you go down that road of rules and stability guiding a lifestyle and a need for ‘faith’ why aren’t LSI your candidates for nostalgics with Se creative and mob Ni?
Sicuramente cercherai il significato di questo.
I told you it's my understanding based on my personal experience with many Si-users around me.
Anyway, I've never said Si is memories. I was saying high Si people tend to have fondness for things of the past like memories, which they usually do.
Like I said before, Si is a function focus in personal experience. How do you go from there to faith in tradition? Well, like Jung said, it's vary from Si lead to Si lead, it's personal internal impression.
Why not LSI? Because I wasn't talking about others, I was talking about the woman @Adam Strange is seeing, that's what we were talking about before, it's just between ESI and SEI.
And no, I'm not Kiana.
@Scarlett, Si is not about comparing past experiences or anything like that. If an Si person does that, then it is unrelated to the actual function.
You seem to be influenced by MBTI. It's best to forget everything that MBTI says about Si. They don't understand what it is.
SEIs are kindof unreliable. Maybe you are talking about ESI? They can have a very strong sense of duty.
Last edited by Tallmo; 01-20-2021 at 03:11 PM.
A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
(Jung on Si)
My Pinterest
You talk about experience but then you write about it as if were theory, like: “With Si, the individual perceives mostly stored memories of previous sensory experience, they will experience something real time, but then they will quickly compare it to stored memories in their minds”. Well, I ask, where did you get that is the internal mechanism in function with Si? How do you know that’s happening internally?
Moreover, ‘sensory’ is quite explicit in your description. How do you go from, let’s use the lowest-hanging fruit implied in your definition here, “I like strawberry juice better than strawberry milk” to the higher morals of tradition, which involve other functions, for example, ‘honor’ in the military.
See above.
You said you identifiy Fi and Si with nostalgia. So it’s Fi, Si and Ti/Se now? It just keeps expanding. How can LSIbe the only ones (to my recollection) actually identified with tradition in one of their descriptions when they value Se?
Sure thing, Scarlett.
Sicuramente cercherai il significato di questo.
One example Si. Apparently my SEI aunt just likes to absorb the environment while not engaging in it.
BUT ESI's can also be plenty unreliable. They might do stuff what their Fi whims tell them to do while ignoring lots of objective possibilities. Sucre they may be plenty loyal to their own convictions but they may instantly turn their back to something else when they get the calling.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Your life is too short to actually do anything useful with it without being wasteful.
Maybe good to interrogate that belief of should be partnered/married? Deciding to make the best of life, have a kickass life even if one doesn't find the right person... at least that's what I read to do in a self-help book in my late 20s and has helped me. When I feel more in touch with it.
As an ESI who loves meaning this pulled at my heartstrings <3
I think you see the person more or less accurately without too much lust/personal narcissistic fantasy ((though it's fine if ppl share fantasies but often it's this weird one sided thing)) - although that stuff might happen, it also just seems realistically possible. You both are sane and not crazy. And you both simply I would say - 'have a good head on your shoulders' because things like 'I won't fuck you unless you make as much money as Warren Buffet' thing or something is just highly personal for the individual. It's more about both parties being just in a clear & solid state of mind. I guess i should say 'healthy', but you know that word makes me groan.
The weird creepy bully/victim/hero dynamic evaporates very naturally because that stuff is such bullshit and it doesn't belong with two adults. Ever. It's not even really good to have that thing even 'a little bit' because it's so toxic to a "good" relationship - or experience. Many times people aren't even looking for a relationship, just a fun experience that isn't destroyed by the weird Russian narc vibes of this place.
You also probably wouldn't bring that system up or typology to begin with, or overly intellectual topics that aren't relevant to the person's grounded, real lives or any weird sexless psychology theory that makes you look like an asexual nerd. I'm sorry if that's harsh or hurts your feelings but I highly doubt that would ever interest somebody or make them excited or make them think you are anything other than somebody really sheltered, lonely and sad.. ... I mean I don't talk about 16types Adventures in real life unless I empathetically get in the real grounded moment the person would be accepting of it you know. You have to treat and protect all your 'nerdy' qualities the same way.
For me it's just this level of comfort. I'm naturally shy and ultra-wary of abusers or fucked up people or just people I know I'm not compatible with and it will end in this dark abyss- i'm kinda super sensitive to that thing so it's kinda understanding how much of they are like that in reality beyond the internet scope. I can sometimes weirdly sniff this out without meeting them first even once IRL- I don't know how I do it, I just do. Probably a lot of subconscious Fi or something.
Last edited by BandD; 01-27-2021 at 03:49 PM.
So the socionics based dating app I mentioned upthread, Meetchapp?
They're apparently an "official partner" of Viktor Gulenko, and they're working on an in-app feature where he types you (according to their instagram, at least)
Curious as hell (and also kind of suspicious ngl) about how that's going to work, considering it took a month for me to get typed.
~we're just out here havin a good time~
lmao I asked them on their instagram post how it works if you've already been typed, curious to see what they say & if there's a way to be "verified" outside whatever their app's method is.
~we're just out here havin a good time~
It sounds like G is a consultant and they’re incorporating his DCNH theory of “temperament.”
This sort of thing might launch in Europe but socionics isn’t known in the US. Americans are not into Ti stuff and this is probably going to be too complicated for most people to grasp (everywhere).
The information written is worded accordingly to G’s theories. This is basically a free lesson.
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Although can it be even less in depth, the current state of affairs is already like a speeddate or sth lmao
~ ESTP ~ SLE ~ 7w8 ~ Sp/Sx ~ Fire ~ Aries ~ Beta ~ Gryffindor ~ Summer ~ SLUEN ~
You have an in-app text chat with Gulenko and he types you based on the vibe you give off in 140 words or less lmao.
IDK as long as the ITR holds up consistently for the people he types, that'd still at least count for something. @Lolita is right though it's all gonna be Europeans lmao there's gonna be like 2 SLEs from America and I got a feeling they're just gonna be trolling on there
~we're just out here havin a good time~
The SLEs on there are actually EIEs because they’re obsessed with image.