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Thread: Role...play?

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    Tommy's Avatar
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    Default Role...play?

    Does Role Element has the goal of adapting to the outside/social/common/trendy use of the element?

    I mean every type(person) would adopt the behavior of his/her role element that's commonly accepted in the society where s/he is living or grew up. What do you think? Have you observed this?
    Last edited by Tommy; 07-22-2020 at 03:17 PM.

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    any function is important to live
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    Does Role Element has the goal of adapting to the outside/social/common/trendy use of the element?

    I mean every type(person) would adopt the behavior of his/her role
    element that's commonly accepted in the society where s/he is living or grew up. What do you think? Have you observed this?
    I self-type as LIE, and I tend to pay extra attention to my use of Fe and how others perceive it, if that can help.

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    I am LIE with Fe-Role, and I use my Role to sell my ideas. That is either adapting to the world, or making the world adapt to me. Certainly, it is my best tool for interacting with the world.

    I really had no clear idea of how powerful this is until recently. People don't make decisions based on logic, they make decisions based on emotion, and Fe-emotion is what I tend to pitch when I'm selling something. I didn't really understand what I was doing before I encountered Socionics, but you don't have to believe in gravity to be immersed in it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I am LIE with Fe-Role, and I use my Role to sell my ideas. That is either adapting to the world, or making the world adapt to me. Certainly, it is my best tool for interacting with the world.
    Do you think you use Fe as its commonly used in your society? I mean, like adapting to use it just how a society or group use it when you interact with them (though I think it would be subconscious)?

    I really had no clear idea of how powerful this is until recently. People don't make decisions based on logic, they make decisions based on emotion, and Fe-emotion is what I tend to pitch when I'm selling something. I didn't really understand what I was doing before I encountered Socionics, but you don't have to believe in gravity to be immersed in it.
    This is completely true Adam. Not to all ppl, but most certainly, so most make decisions based in emotion not in logic, that's why I think most ppl take often bad decisions and keep up with idiotic mentalities that take them far from their objectives or desires.
    That's why I also think that evil men often lead the world taking advantage of the idiocy and mental sluggishness of ppl and how easily they can be manipulated. This is the reason why I often feel disapointed of ppl and the "world"(bigger terms) for this. Like it doesn't matter how true or good something is, most ppl is going to believe or do what they were told through Fe.

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    It probably depends on the extent to which your culture or social group values that function, but a person feels somewhat obligated to develop the role to the point where he's "good enough" at it.

    It's can be a source of embarrassment, and people may react with some hostility when this function is criticized. This is in contrast with contrary or mirage partners, who have your role as their suggestive, and are willing to put themselves in situations where their weakness in this area is obvious to everyone.

    The most self-aware ILI or IEI will flat-out admit that he's a gigantic pussy, whereas an ILE or IEE will be annoyed, and may dislike you, if you made that insinuation.

    An LIE or LSE will not like it if you called him uncharismatic. An LII or LSI probably doesn't care if he seems like a robot.


    In my experience, there's also the additional factor of self-confidence; someone who is overconfident may simply brush off criticism of his role (or PoLR).

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    I think of the role as an aspect of the base. If your base is, e.g, Fi, your attitude is introverted and it’s easier, or at least more automatic, to approach T matters in an introverted way, rather than trying to adopt an unfamiliar approach (the suggestive). Also, to Jung, thinking and feeling (and intuition and sensing) were opposite sides of the same coin; they operate in similar ways and have similar goals. It makes sense that people would attempt to supply one for the other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    The most self-aware ILI or IEI will flat-out admit that he's a gigantic pussy, whereas an ILE or IEE will be annoyed, and may dislike you, if you made that insinuation.
    I'd see it as someone trying to rile me up with some hidden intention.. at which point I'd get suspicious and psychologically confrontational in a "what is this person up to really!?" manner.
    Last edited by shotgunfingers; 07-22-2020 at 07:20 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    Do you think you use Fe as its commonly used in your society? I mean, like adapting to use it just how a society or group use it when you interact with them (though I think it would be subconscious)?

    This is completely true Adam. Not to all ppl, but most certainly, so most make decisions based in emotion not in logic, that's why I think most ppl take often bad decisions and keep up with idiotic mentalities that take them far from their objectives or desires.
    That's why I also think that evil men often lead the world taking advantage of the idiocy and mental sluggishness of ppl and how easily they can be manipulated. This is the reason why I often feel disapointed of ppl and the "world"(bigger terms) for this. Like it doesn't matter how true or good something is, most ppl is going to believe or do what they were told through Fe.
    I think the US is still largely a Gamma society, although that is clearly changing, so I would say that I use Fe-Role as much as is expected in my society.

    I have Alpha-family cousins and Beta-family cousins, and when I was in an Alpha family gathering, I just hid. Every single person there was a space alien. When I'm with my Beta cousins, though, I get along with them about as well as I get along with my own Delta family. Not great, not horrible, just use caution.

    One of my Beta-family members is a female IEI-Fe, and she knew absolutely everyone in a high school with 2700 kids in it. However, she hung out with a clique that was composed of band members and theater people. I'd sometimes accompany her to their parties, and again, the rampant Fe there made me think that I was socially retarded, so once again, I kept very quiet and out of the way. People there would laugh at something, not because it was funny, but because other people were laughing at it, too. I could not understand the fakeness of this.

    For a long time, I thought that my Beta cousins and all of her friends were two-faced. They would say something to a person's face "Oh, I love your hair" and then turn to me and whisper "Her hair looks like dog shit". I thought this was just the way they were all brought up, but no, it's Fe going along with the group emotions, coupled with Beta competitiveness.
    If I thought someone's behavior was out of line, I'd just say nothing and mark them as a potential trouble-maker. Very Fi.

    No, I only engage my Fe program when I'm in front of an audience, selling them some load of stuff that they can give me money for. Otherwise, it is turned off. In other words, I use it purely for selling my ideas.

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    Being insecure about my type I wondered if I just identify with my role. As it being the one I receive the most pleasure from being pleased in. I like to think of myself as direct and efficient but I don't know if I get much of a boost from it, which would mean Te role. Last employer invited me out to coffee, cigarettes and a beer, and said I was very good, but I was indiffernt, because I didn't like the projects he had in the pipeline and didn't want the one to be the one to implement futile things...
    Wow I really do find a way to make everything about myself.
    who, me?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nice View Post
    Being insecure about my type I wondered if I just identify with my role. As it being the one I receive the most pleasure from being pleased in. I like to think of myself as direct and efficient but I don't know if I get much of a boost from it, which would mean Te role. Last employer invited me out to coffee, cigarettes and a beer, and said I was very good, but I was indiffernt, because I didn't like the projects he had in the pipeline and didn't want the one to be the one to implement futile things...
    Wow I really do find a way to make everything about myself.
    I think the element you get more pleasure from is their Suggestive. Is like the zone where guilty pleasures are in and also where you are more stupid/unreasonable but keep enjoying.

    As example, I know both ExI and they enjoy getting money and feeling productive even if they are walking over others or being kinda unreasonable (they don't notice it mb). On the other hand, the Role is not an element you get pleasure from, more likely the opposite. Is an element that brings you conscience but also keeps accusing you for being incomplete, incompetent or incorrect in that area, that's why I think ppl keep trying to meet social standards in that element (investigate about the Super Ego in psychology).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I think the US is still largely a Gamma society, although that is clearly changing, so I would say that I use Fe-Role as much as is expected in my society.

    I have Alpha-family cousins and Beta-family cousins, and when I was in an Alpha family gathering, I just hid. Every single person there was a space alien. When I'm with my Beta cousins, though, I get along with them about as well as I get along with my own Delta family. Not great, not horrible, just use caution.

    One of my Beta-family members is a female IEI-Fe, and she knew absolutely everyone in a high school with 2700 kids in it. However, she hung out with a clique that was composed of band members and theater people. I'd sometimes accompany her to their parties, and again, the rampant Fe there made me think that I was socially retarded, so once again, I kept very quiet and out of the way. People there would laugh at something, not because it was funny, but because other people were laughing at it, too. I could not understand the fakeness of this.

    For a long time, I thought that my Beta cousins and all of her friends were two-faced. They would say something to a person's face "Oh, I love your hair" and then turn to me and whisper "Her hair looks like dog shit". I thought this was just the way they were all brought up, but no, it's Fe going along with the group emotions, coupled with Beta competitiveness.
    If I thought someone's behavior was out of line, I'd just say nothing and mark them as a potential trouble-maker. Very Fi.
    This is an interesting point. I have seen Fe egos accusing Fi types of hypocrisy or being two faced (while being two faced in my pov in the process). For example ESE mom thought my grandma acting "nice" in front of others instead of expressing her real thoughts was being two faced, for SEE grandma was a way to keep things respectful and peaceful, it was how things should be. For Fe ppl is important to express their true emotions towards others, as is immoral to keep them for themselves (that's being two faced for them). On the other hand, I saw once two Fe leads (ESE and EIE) criticizing and gossiping about the family of the deceased at a funeral for not being openly sad and keep trying to not expressing openly sadness also talking about how such family have had mistreated the EIE. That was disrespectful and tasteless to me, but they thought that keeping the social forms (assisting to the funeral) was keeping manners. I've been called hypocrite for an IEI because I kept for myself what I felt instead of trying to fight her, while for me that was being respectful for her it was being hypocrite, etc.

    No, I only engage my Fe program when I'm in front of an audience, selling them some load of stuff that they can give me money for. Otherwise, it is turned off. In other words, I use it purely for selling my ideas.
    That's the way I use Ni too often imo. I mean, not for "selling" but when I'm in front of an audience. I don't think is turned off for me daily, mb because mine is introverted and yours is extroverted. I feel like my "extroverted" elements are turned off until I have to relate with the world around me while I'm more subjectively conscious of the introverted ones.
    Last edited by Tommy; 08-11-2020 at 08:53 PM.

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    I experience myself as incredibly self-indulgent. I am drawn to that which I find interesting or stimulating (this gives me pleasure) and I am more interested in this than in any long-term planning. I used to think I was Ni dominant, but that was before my brain fell apart and after that I lost my experience of time because without memory you can't properly experience time. But perhaps this was an outcome between Si and Ni and Si won. I think the lead and role struggle with one another in a tug-of-war, but the lead IE by definition is the one that wins (if it did not it cannot be the lead IE by definition). I would experience Ni role as attempting to appear like someone who makes more plans than I actually do, or who takes the goal-setting culture seriously. It's true I don't want my general lack of planning exposed so I will take a few measures to hide it, though in the last year or two I'm too tired to even keep up the facade. And I have numerous other facades running.

    But yes if that's Ni role it will respond to the environment around it to look as though I too do the basic planning things. Although my competitors may involve other people with Ni role whose lives haven't fallen to pieces and I don't know them well enough to know if the reason they seem to all over-emphasize things like goal-setting from my pov is because they are playing up their Ni roles. I can imagine some of those people being very offended if they were accused of poor planning because they have devoted much time to planning. Although it would be horrible and untrue to accuse them of such in the first place.

    I guess I am calling Ni role time management...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    I think the element you get more pleasure from is their Suggestive. Is like the zone where guilty pleasures are in and also where you are more stupid/unreasonable but keep enjoying.

    As example, I know both ExI and they enjoy getting money and feeling productive even if they are walking over others or being kinda unreasonable (they don't notice it mb). On the other hand, the Role is not an element you get pleasure from, more likely the opposite. Is an element that brings you conscience but also keeps accusing you for being incomplete, incompetent or incorrect in that area, that's why I think ppl keep trying to meet social standards in that element (investigate about the Super Ego in psychology).
    Yes. I meant more, compliments for your unvalued weak functions are appreciated and criticism hurts. Whereas your valued weak functions criticism is accepted as helpful.
    who, me?

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    It is described for process types that their Se is quite bit meeker than in result types (even SEE's show this) and is more like building a fortress than having an attack so to speak. So yeah, dunno. I probably build some sort of low key diplomatic shields by acting like being part of it while really despising it and trying to get around when no one sneaks behind.
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    Yes, according to model G from Gulenko, the Role function is for social adaptation, similarly to the mobilizing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    For a long time, I thought that my Beta cousins and all of her friends were two-faced. They would say something to a person's face "Oh, I love your hair" and then turn to me and whisper "Her hair looks like dog shit". I thought this was just the way they were all brought up, but no, it's Fe going along with the group emotions, coupled with Beta competitiveness.
    Sounds like they wanted to make you laugh and feel integrated by bitching on this girl. Paradoxically, I think that for betas this means "look, we're actually close enough for me to be honest with you and tell you what I think!"...
    Ti valuers must think Te-users are two-faced too when they tell someone "I think you did a good job" to encourage someone to give his best, while we actually think the performance is rather poor...
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    Quote Originally Posted by TellaAdend View Post
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    I misread and thought this was going to be about Socionics role play where people RP as different sociotypes.
    devourer of the sun // consumer of the moon
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    Lets sex rp

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    [Socionics] sex Role...play?
    devourer of the sun // consumer of the moon
    & you know now,
    that anything alone is
    a haunting

    & any two things
    together is a terror.
    What use are flowers?

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