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Thread: Questions for SEI or probably SEI's

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    Default Questions for SEI or probably SEI's

    1. How do you differentiate between you and the people you typed IEI? I'm actually looking for those SEI and IEI that almost look alike instead of extreme examples of each type

    2. How do you view EII? Since they are SEI's benefactors.

    3. What is the type of the people closest to you? (BFF/Close friends/Romantic partners etc.)

    4. What is a Caregiver to you?

    5. Do you think a SEI will engage in philosophical thinking or fantasy 24/7 and seems to detach from reality more as they are getting older?

    @Tallmo @Rusal and other SEIs in the forum

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunshineInaPuddle View Post
    1. How do you differentiate between you and the people you typed IEI? I'm actually looking for those SEI and IEI that almost look alike instead of extreme examples of each type
    I've never seen that as a problem. They can look similar from afar but with a little communication it is clear who's who. Generally SEI seems more down to earth and simple than IEI. It can be easier to confuse SEI and EII sometimes.

    Lisa Mitchell I type SEI
    Emmanuelle Seigner IEI

    2. How do you view EII? Since they are SEI's benefactors.
    They seem serious and more advanced than I in some way.

    3. What is the type of the people closest to you? (BFF/Close friends/Romantic partners etc.)
    I have a long time LII friend.

    4. What is a Caregiver to you?
    I don't think much about that. It's something I notice when comparing lots of people over time. But I don't actively think of myself as a caregiver although I in theory belong to that group.

    5. Do you think a SEI will engage in philosophical thinking or fantasy 24/7 and seems to detach from reality more as they are getting older?
    cant answer
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)


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    Read the theory.

    > How do you differentiate between you and the people you typed IEI

    you miss:
    - people may mistake in own type with ~50% chance, if to take average typing matches ~17%
    - people mistake in types of other people often too, as almost no one has good typing experience and many use doubtful theory

    Practical obesrvations about types have a significant use only among experienced in typing. Or, at least, when you are experienced one, typed those people yourself and then ask them about their relations.

    > I'm actually looking for those SEI and IEI that almost look alike instead of extreme examples of each type

    When you know people good and have good typing skills - it will be clear their significant difference in types related.
    "almost look alike" is the case of type's expressing below average and hence is rare case too

    -

    If you want to understand your own type - take into account IR effects. If you want to type better other people - read the normal theory and study types examples.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    2. How do you view EII? Since they are SEI's benefactors

    I haven't had much interaction with EIIs but i remember two that i had short conversations with, they were very sweet and kind souls. Relaxing to be around too.

    3. What is the type of the people closest to you? (BFF/Close friends/Romantic partners etc.)

    My main group of friends were ILE, SLE, and ESE, Other friends i had were IEE and SEE. My favorite cousin is an ILE. I've been romantically interested in a lot of SLEs, only online never in real life for some reason.

    4. What is a Caregiver to you?

    Someone who's kind and attentive, taking care of your needs and such.

    5. Do you think a SEI will engage in philosophical thinking or fantasy 24/7 and seems to detach from reality more as they are getting older?

    Whenever i'm alone, i will engage in my fantasy world for as long as i can until i get bored or run out of content. I've been doing this ever since i was young.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SunshineInaPuddle View Post
    2. How do you view EII? Since they are SEI's benefactors.
    Serious and calm people. For all the talk about Ne-egos needing help with everyday matters, the one I am in touch with seems better at adulting.

    Quote Originally Posted by SunshineInaPuddle View Post
    What is a Caregiver to you?
    A woman I once met walked day to day in an uninterrupted state of stuck up energy. She never realized she didn’t have a ‘release’ and transition that would be obvious to observers. I would’ve have made the pertinent recommendations but ended up not doing so because I didn’t want to offend her. So caregiver is related to the ego but I can’t imagine it as being anything over the top.

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunshineInaPuddle View Post
    1. How do you differentiate between you and the people you typed IEI? I'm actually looking for those SEI and IEI that almost look alike instead of extreme examples of each type
    Here's a non-typical IEI:
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    Here's a non-typical IEI:
    I you’d ask me I’ll say he looks like SLI. I guess im still very bad at VIs

    Thanks Tallmo!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    Here's a non-typical IEI:
    I would never call that guy SLI, but my first impression was ILI. Maybe it was his Ni that I was seeing. But then, I noticed that he seemed physically “loose”, and there wasn’t a straight line to be seen anywhere on his farm and everything seemed to be half-assed and badly improvised. So I can believe IEI.

    I bought some property from a male IEI with buildings that he had built himself. Untreated support posts put into wet soil without a foundation. Not a straight line anywhere. If there were two ways you could orient a beam or join it to another beam, he chose the worse way 100% of the time. The buildings are a total loss and have to be completely removed and replaced.

    Exactly the opposite of what you would expect from an LSE builder.

    *EDIT*
    I should add that I think both the guy in the video and the guy I bought the property from seem to lean towards Ni. I also knew a female IEI-Fe, and the environment that she created was incredibly attractive and well-put-together, while she still managed to be Te-PoLR.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 07-23-2020 at 12:10 PM.

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    The guy from vid reminds me of ESE-Si from VI, but from socionics point he could be SLI (Fe PoLR). I won't type him SEI because the SEI ppl I've met are kinda different (also interested in different things than showing you his farm or whatever -I don't understand what he's saying, but I guess he's explaining some technical things, so if that's the case he looks more Te to me).

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    1. How do you differentiate between you and the people you typed IEI? I'm actually looking for those SEI and IEI that almost look alike instead of extreme examples of each type

    I see myself mainly as IP temperament. Regarding IEI vs. SEI or Ni vs. Si I see it as Ni should have a certain level of sophistication at the "4d" level and I don't really see myself as displaying that, which means Si has to be the lead IE and it's more this mystery of uncovering what that means since I feel Socionics is deeply lacking on the subject of Si in general.

    2. How do you view EII? Since they are SEI's benefactors.

    I get along with my EII sister. I am not sure I would get along with all EIIs. I tend to respect the humanitarian aspect of EII and will pay attention to its ethical rulings, as I consider a lot of EIIs more clear on ethics than I am. However, there is also this uptight aspect that I experience with all rational types (although Fe leads I experience as less uptight). Some EIIs I feel are kind of so thoroughly principled that they seem to be more arguing for conformity than ethics, and can have some very restrictive ethical "rules" of sorts. Rational types generally seem to like order more than I do. I view the world as in flux and not a static place. And therefore you kind of have to flow with it rather than putting up your rules and being like, world don't be the natural wild organic and transient thing you are, conform to these standards and structures and so on. I don't feel the need to control nature in this psychic way.

    3. What is the type of the people closest to you? (BFF/Close friends/Romantic partners etc.)

    My EII sister is my closest relationship. I don't really have any friends. A guy I dated was Ne quadra, maybe Ne dominant, but I started wondering if he was actually Ne HA. He actually criticized me for not noticing things, not being aware of my body, not being as glorious as him. I don't wanna say it's all bad cause I was terrible in other ways I don't wanna talk about and I put him on a pedestal and I feared being abandoned by him and I felt I couldn't survive if that relationship ended and it took me forever to get over it. I felt so ashamed about everything and the shame eats me up. But anyway, the criticism about lack of awareness of my body really hurt and I felt helpless to fix it and it was one of the many things that made me feel I can't fit in with other people and I need to keep to myself. I couldn't dance either because I didn't understand it, and it was another of these body awareness things. I also obsessed over it and tried to become more of a hedonist and this has not turned out well. At the time we were dating I was 100% in my head and mental health professionals had pointed this out to me, and it was this mystery when they would say that they live in their body and mind, I only live in my mind. I still feel so disconnected from my body, but I have something new which is an understanding of why it might be important outside of trying to look normal.

    4. What is a Caregiver to you?

    People who spend most of their time caring for things, whether other people, animals, plants, spaces, and who really seem to relish in nurturing things. The aspect that I could see as caregiver like in myself is my feelings towards animals, however I don't actually help many animals as I don't feel I have the means. But if I had the means, I actually would probably devote time to helping animals. I don't know in what capacity. I love animals and I always have and I often find them easier to relate to than people and I can't stand all the suffering and extinction.

    5. Do you think a SEI will engage in philosophical thinking or fantasy 24/7 and seems to detach from reality more as they are getting older?

    I think SEI can engage in these things a lot. I majored in philosophy in college because it was a major in which you can engage in philosophical thinking basically all the time. I wish I hadn't chickened out about grad school. I mainly didn't see how to navigate the social hurdles like letters of recommendation and how you need to be socially. I was afraid. I was also afraid of my lack of self-discipline. There were so many papers I wrote the night before. I got all As so it was okay, but it also wasn't okay. This level of procrastination concerned me. Although I suppose I never thought it was something I could overcome. Really my whole life has been defined by a lack of confidence and a fear of being incapable. I think it like so many things goes back to my relationship with my dad who drilled it into me that I was inferior.

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunshineInaPuddle View Post
    I you’d ask me I’ll say he looks like SLI. I guess im still very bad at VIs

    Thanks Tallmo!
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I would never call that guy SLI, but my first impression was ILI. Maybe it was his Ni that I was seeing. But then, I noticed that he seemed physically “loose”, and there wasn’t a straight line to be seen anywhere on his farm and everything seemed to be half-assed and badly improvised. So I can believe IEI.
    Yes, SLI is something that I'd have a hard time seeing in him. But it's not uncommon to feel the superego functions.

    I think he's hard to type only from video. I have met him many times, so that's the only reason I think I'm quite sure of his type (IEI). He was a gardener for some years, now he's back in his real job in theater production. In the video he talks about growing organic vegetables. He doesn't want to use pesticides: because 1) doesn't want to poison himself 2) doesn't want to poison nature, to work against nature 3) doesn't want to poison his customers, and 4) here he shows his compost at the end, "everything begins and returns to earth", "earth is strength".
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    The guy from vid reminds me of ESE-Si from VI, but from socionics point he could be SLI (Fe PoLR). I won't type him SEI because the SEI ppl I've met are kinda different (also interested in different things than showing you his farm or whatever -I don't understand what he's saying, but I guess he's explaining some technical things, so if that's the case he looks more Te to me).
    SLI's I know are very keen on treating environment the right way. I thought SLI at first. They really want to love Fi way the Earth.

    Also the surest way to piss off an SLI is to cut down a special tree.
    Measuring you right now

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    Yes, SLI is something that I'd have a hard time seeing in him. But it's not uncommon to feel the superego functions.

    I think he's hard to type only from video. I have met him many times, so that's the only reason I think I'm quite sure of his type (IEI). He was a gardener for some years, now he's back in his real job in theater production. In the video he talks about growing organic vegetables. He doesn't want to use pesticides: because 1) doesn't want to poison himself 2) doesn't want to poison nature, to work against nature 3) doesn't want to poison his customers, and 4) here he shows his compost at the end, "everything begins and returns to earth", "earth is strength".
    Theater seems to be a good job for IEI's.

    The guy I bought the property from basically divided his twelve acres and sold me five, keeping seven. He had a little lake on his property and some outbuildings, all of which were falling down because they were built so badly. He had a lumber mill there for a while, but that business failed. Then he was keeping chickens, but the chickens kept getting eaten by the coyotes. He also kept bees, and I bought some of the honey they produced.

    He sold me the property because he was absolutely terrible at making money and he needed cash to pay his debts. A few years after that, he sold his remaining property and moved out of state to live with his kids, basically because he couldn't find work. The guy who bought his house from him (an ESI) said that the plumbing in the house was a horror show. Again, evidence of Te-PoLR.

    I'd be inclined to say that the IEI was ethical and took care of the land, except for two instances.

    Once I drove onto the property and found a hunter waiting to shoot deer. I asked him what he was doing on my property, and the hunter told me that the IEI had sold him rights to hunt on my property. I think the IEI was counting on my not finding out about that. I don't need bullet holes in my buildings, so I told him to get a refund from the IEI.

    The second thing was that half of my property is wooded and has deer and wild turkeys on the property. You go towards the back, up a little rise and down, then the woods start and there's a summer stream back there. When I was first walking around the property shortly after I bought it, I discovered that he had been dumping all the trash and garbage and old bikes and tires and car parts and a refrigerator back in the woods for years. Presumably, to save the cost of getting rid of it legally, I suppose. I had a crew clean that up and hauled a couple of dumpsters of trash out of the woods. SMH. Not exactly a great steward of the land. Or maybe he was, as long as it didn't cost him anything.

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    I feel Socionics is deeply lacking on the subject of Si in general.
    Jung has a superior description of Si in chapter X of Psychological types. Read all of it from 6. Sensation to 7 Introverted Sensation Type and also beginning of 9 Introverted Intuitive type where he mentions Si the last time. Then read it again, many times, print it and make notes in the margin, sleep with it.

    The problem is that his description is almost too good and gets misunderstood. Just keep in mind that he is all the time talking about sensory impressions, not raw sensations (see my signature) and he is trying to characterize them, although it is very hard to express in words. Also keep in mind that he is talking about the same thing as socionics.
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)


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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunshineInaPuddle View Post
    5. Do you think a SEI will engage in philosophical thinking or fantasy 24/7 and seems to detach from reality more as they are getting older?
    I actually have something to say about this. There is a guy who is SEI. He is in his 30'ies and was a student of philosophy and now he's working on his PhD. (I don't know if he will actually finish it). He is very "philosophical" and abstract. Obviously very smart but still doesn't really seem like an intuititve. He is also living a very modest life and cut off from ordinary life (so he says himself). Doesn't have any money. I've tried to think of some other type for him, but the only type I see for him is SEI. He is a strong Ni-harmonizing subtype.
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    I actually have something to say about this. There is a guy who is SEI. He is in his 30'ies and was a student of philosophy and now he's working on his PhD. (I don't know if he will actually finish it). He is very "philosophical" and abstract. Obviously very smart but still doesn't really seem like an intuititve. He is also living a very modest life and cut off from ordinary life (so he says himself). Doesn't have any money. I've tried to think of some other type for him, but the only type I see for him is SEI. He is a strong Ni-harmonizing subtype.
    What's the purpose of SEI then?

    pure Si seems very interesting, not this comfort-seeking hedonistic view of it I'm used to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    Jung has a superior description of Si in chapter X of Psychological types. Read all of it from 6. Sensation to 7 Introverted Sensation Type and also beginning of 9 Introverted Intuitive type where he mentions Si the last time. Then read it again, many times, print it and make notes in the margin, sleep with it.

    The problem is that his description is almost too good and gets misunderstood. Just keep in mind that he is all the time talking about sensory impressions, not raw sensations (see my signature) and he is trying to characterize them, although it is very hard to express in words. Also keep in mind that he is talking about the same thing as socionics.
    So admittedly I've never fully understood Jung's Si descriptions, conveniently read to us below:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx3moSvZa4U
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c-Qqr2cuOg

    Jung basically seems to be saying that the Si type takes in a subjective impression of the "object" while generally "cleaving" that off from the objective nature of the object. He uses the example of having multiple people paint the same object (like a vase, or a landscape, or human face or whatever) and points out how each painting will come out looking different due to the subjective aspect of sensing. People bring forth their impressions of the object in their paintings of it, and arguably in a way that overrides the object itself (if one were to assume something like a photograph to be the "objective representation" of that object). Even if someone were trying to do nothing but create an "objective drawing" of the object (no subjective impression), this elusive subjective sensing factor will probably still come into play.

    I am not sure to what extent he means this as a metaphor or how literally to take it. I start thinking of my mom who paints the glory of nature a lot (as I shall randomly call it) in landscapes with all sorts of vibrant colors and it's that she's trying to recreate nature as she sees it, which is in some ways "subjectively magical" in that it's bringing out a physical vision of nature that differs from how it would appear objectively (as say in a photograph). There aren't any metaphors in what she paints, or any mystical imagery, it is a strictly sensing activity IOW--but it draws out very clearly the subjective aspect of sensing (the "vision" is an Si one).

    However, Jung also talks about the repressed extroverted intuition in the introverted sensing type which he describes as taking on an "archaic" form. I am assuming he means it draws upon all manner of imagery and symbol from the collective unconscious, but because it's this repressed more crude form of extroverted intuition that is buried in the unconscious, it in a way becomes terrifying or perhaps even delusional. For this I was thinking of the example of how in some cultures black corvid birds (e.g. crows) have been associated with macabre imagery and death. They've been seen picking over the corpses of people who died from horrifying events (like plagues) and for this reason they've culturally been associated with evil or with the demonic or perhaps one might see one and fear it will swallow their soul (I don't know all the particular stories). This to me would seem like a possible example to match what Jung talks about as this archaic extroverted intuition at play. The object crow is neutral as all objects are, but it takes on a malevolent form in the imaginations of those held sway by these cultural influences, causing them to perceive what is simply a bird in a "delusional" way.

    So if I add these two things together, I would imagine the introverted sensing type probably goes through the day experiencing a version of their surroundings that is highly subjective (this subjective aspect of sensing as from the painting example) while also seeing objects metaphorically such that they can become akin to benevolent or malevolent deities when this "archaic" extroverted intuition is at work.

    It is also described as a type that can barely speak or articulate itself, and I don't know how far to go with these descriptions from Jung. I assume this is a metaphor for the difficulties the introverted sensing type has in interacting with what is assumed to be an objective world. Their subjective sensing expression is best expressed artistically and doesn't have an expression available to it through objective means. However, the way in which he goes on about it, it's easy to imagine a far more debilitated person and I keep recalling how he's encountered a lot of these "types" in clinical settings for people who are a bit off their rockers. (It's as though) Jung after all would be looking at what today we would call a schizophrenic and trying to type them, likely as the introverted sensing or introverted intuitive type, and seeing this madness from them as actually a consequence of being one of these subjective perceiving types who has lost all manner of identification with anything objective, as all these ideas are tied together for him in a system (I agree with Jung that he is the introverted thinking type lol).
    Last edited by inumbra; 07-31-2020 at 04:56 PM.

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    This Si seems do tricks on me
    Measuring you right now

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    Sincerely yours,
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    1. They're very obviously intuitive. Hard to explain, but they can spin up intricate theories that make me not notice their lack of logic, at first, and they have a marked comfort with what might happen that is actually a great area of anxiety for me.

    2. Eh. Nice often, hard to talk to, sometimes a bit controlling.

    3. XLE and a SEE bestie.

    4. Probably just takes care of physical and aesthetic things without it being a strain. I enjoy cooking or occasionally, decorating, for fun.

    5. I find all SFs philosophical. SF together feels like a kind of detachment from context, ST is way more grounded. I've had convos with ESI and ESE where I'm like wtf are you even talking about, but interested.

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    Jung basically seems to be saying that the Si type takes in a subjective impression of the "object" while generally "cleaving" that off from the objective nature of the object. He uses the example of having multiple people paint the same object (like a vase, or a landscape, or human face or whatever) and points out how each painting will come out looking different due to the subjective aspect of sensing. People bring forth their impressions of the object in their paintings of it, and arguably in a way that overrides the object itself (if one were to assume something like a photograph to be the "objective representation" of that object). Even if someone were trying to do nothing but create an "objective drawing" of the object (no subjective impression), this elusive subjective sensing factor will probably still come into play.
    yes, this illustrates what Si is about. People add something to the pure object.

    I am not sure to what extent he means this as a metaphor or how literally to take it.
    I think he said that it illustrates Si. If Si sounds weird then he gives this example to show that it is something we know about.

    I start thinking of my mom who paints the glory of nature a lot (as I shall randomly call it) in landscapes with all sorts of vibrant colors and it's that she's trying to recreate nature as she sees it, which is in some ways "subjectively magical" in that it's bringing out a physical vision of nature that differs from how it would appear objectively (as say in a photograph). There aren't any metaphors in what she paints, or any mystical imagery, it is a strictly sensing activity IOW--but it draws out very clearly the subjective aspect of sensing (the "vision" is an Si one).
    Painters can of course paint subjectively in a general sense that is not Si. Jung's example doesn't mean that anybody who makes subjective art is Si.

    However, Jung also talks about the repressed extroverted intuition in the introverted sensing type which he describes as taking on an "archaic" form. I am assuming he means it draws upon all manner of imagery and symbol from the collective unconscious, but because it's this repressed more crude form of extroverted intuition that is buried in the unconscious, it in a way becomes terrifying or perhaps even delusional. For this I was thinking of the example of how in some cultures black corvid birds (e.g. crows) have been associated with macabre imagery and death. They've been seen picking over the corpses of people who died from horrifying events (like plagues) and for this reason they've culturally been associated with evil or with the demonic or perhaps one might see one and fear it will swallow their soul (I don't know all the particular stories). This to me would seem like a possible example to match what Jung talks about as this archaic extroverted intuition at play. The object crow is neutral as all objects are, but it takes on a malevolent form in the imaginations of those held sway by these cultural influences, causing them to perceive what is simply a bird in a "delusional" way.
    The repressed inferior function is something he mentions for all functions in all sections of chapter X. It only comes into play when the person is clinging to the base function, making the inferior function going "into opposition". There are cases of people being almost "possessed" by the base function. In these people the inferior function shows it's dark side.

    All objects around us can carry symbolic meaning, but I think that is a broader phenomenon and not linked to functions.


    It is also described as a type that can barely speak or articulate itself, and I don't know how far to go with these descriptions from Jung. I assume this is a metaphor for the difficulties the introverted sensing type has in interacting with what is assumed to be an objective world. Their subjective sensing expression is best expressed artistically and doesn't
    have an expression available to it through objective means.
    In two ways:
    1) Si is hard to express. It doesn't show on the outside. Some artistic people can do it though. and 2) SLI/SEIs are not that good at expressing themselves generally in speech.


    Jung after all would be looking at what today we would call a schizophrenic and trying to type them, likely as the introverted sensing or introverted intuitive type, and seeing this madness from them as actually a consequence of being one of these subjective perceiving types who has lost all manner of identification with anything objective, as all these ideas are tied together for him in a system
    Jung seems to make a distinction between healthy and unhealthy cases of types. Certain problems can arise from the particular onesidedness of a type when it goes too far.

    But I don't think Jung would simplify it as much as you say here above.

    (I agree with Jung that he is the introverted thinking type lol).
    yes, Jung is clearly LII imo
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)


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    One SEI: "you have so white teeth" and I'm like Ummm.. but wuteva. That is Si - she compounded things together so it started to appear like that IMO.
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    I can't help but feel like Jung's description of Si says nothing, like a lot of descriptive language dancing around nothing. One can be so entranced by the dance they may forget there isn't a fire in the center. This is a lame example of how my mind perceives. I read the Jung Si descriptions (or listen to them) and in my mind I start seeing people in hoods dancing around what I presume to be a fire. One of them turns to face me and removes his hood. He has no eyes, but then behind him I see there is no fire. Even as the dance became more elaborate I always assumed there was a fire. This sounds like Ni according to Jung, but he doesn't know my Ni is my role. It's a lame image as empty as what it exposes, a projection of my own emptiness upon the world. The image formed because I am nothing and I perceive everything to also be nothing.

    Earlier as @Tallmo noted I unfairly judged Jung, and this is because I project my judgments of myself onto everything.

    I see no magic in the world and I ask it over and over, make it magical, make me believe. Now THAT I see as DS. I once wrote, "write me a different way to see the world, write me a story, sing me a song, because it just goes on and on." It does. In DS descriptions I remember it saying they see no novel pursuits in life, and I don't see any. I don't see a world of possibilities in my everyday life, I see a dead end I can't stop heading towards even though I know it's a dead end.
    Last edited by inumbra; 08-02-2020 at 02:48 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    I can't help but feel like Jung's description of Si says nothing, like a lot of descriptive language dancing around nothing. One can be so entranced by the dance they may forget there isn't a fire in the center. This is a lame example of how my mind perceives. I read the Jung Si descriptions (or listen to them) and in my mind I start seeing people in hoods dancing around what I presume to be a fire. One of them turns to face me and removes his hood. He has no eyes, but then behind him I see there is no fire. Even as the dance became more elaborate I always assumed there was a fire. This sounds like Ni according to Jung, but he doesn't know my Ni is my role. It's a lame image as empty as what it exposes, a projection of my own emptiness upon the world. The image formed because I am nothing and I perceive everything to also be nothing.

    Earlier as @Tallmo noted I unfairly judged Jung, and this is because I project my judgments of myself onto everything.

    I see no magic in the world and I ask it over and over, make it magical, make me believe. Now THAT I see as DS. I once wrote, "write me a different way to see the world, write me a story, sing me a song, because it just goes on and on." It does. In DS descriptions I remember it saying they see no novel pursuits in life, and I don't see any. I don't see a world of possibilities in my everyday life, I see a dead end I can't stop heading towards even though I know it's a dead end.
    Some advice:
    - Don't take it too personally. This is type psychology, and you should forget your particular problems and NTR stuff. Get to know more Si people.
    - I think it's better to read and not listen (old-fashioned, I know)
    -Jung is describing a function. It can be more or less developed in a SEI (often less). It's also easy to take it for granted and not be aware of it.
    -To describe psychic content is always going to sound weird or empty. Getting to know that content first hand more will help

    I read the Jung Si descriptions (or listen to them) and in my mind I start seeing people in hoods dancing around what I presume to be a fire. One of them turns to face me and removes his hood. He has no eyes, but then behind him I see there is no fire. Even as the dance became more elaborate I always assumed there was a fire. This sounds like Ni according to Jung, but he doesn't know my Ni is my role.
    Interesting. That does not sound like Ni role. Maybe you are an Ni type or a SEI with strong intuitive subtype?
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)


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    Jung. What a verbose little…dude. I imagine it’s the same with the rest of the type descriptions.

    Non TL;DR Jung: Si as the opposite of Se. A receptive captor of an object’s aura. The aura depends on the subjective, just as the painting depends on the person, but what being dazzled by it entails is an element of anti-reality since introverted sensors can seem aloof to objects and oblivious to the use of Se, for example. Because neither Se nor Ne are a person’s primary mode of interaction with the world, the individual can fell somewhat at the mercy of reality, in which case they shield themselves with archaic Ne: ‘I cannot attack reality, I will at least protect myself from it’ is the unconscious proclivity and hence the ‘flair’ for ‘every dangerous possibility’.

    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    I start thinking of my mom who paints the glory of nature a lot (as I shall randomly call it) in landscapes with all sorts of vibrant colors and it's that she's trying to recreate nature as she sees it, which is in some ways "subjectively magical" in that it's bringing out a physical vision of nature that differs from how it would appear objectively(…)Si is also described as a type that can barely speak or articulate itself

    Yes, I think that could be an example. But so as not to leave it at an example that seems to refer to a ‘mood’ mostly and impressionist works have be cited as examples of Si, maybe Monet’s Houses of Parliament are also a good depiction since it’s easier to argue its showcases an inner working mode: the detraction of the self (viewing of reality) in the sense a non Si-lead may understand it, so to speak.

    There’s probably an overlap between the impressionistic part of the brain and where language is located. I can’t vouch for Bjork’s type, but I think the song ‘All is Full of Love’ intentionally or by happenstance shows the generalities of an impressionistic experience vs. articulation. More pronounced towards the second half of the song the one-line chorus is repeated in a loop and encloses the listener. The lack of progression in language forces the focus on the undefined state which finds no real translation into words but is the main point of the whole song.

    Quote Originally Posted by COVID 007 View Post
    One SEI: "you have so white teeth" and I'm like Ummm.. but wuteva. That is Si - she compounded things together so it started to appear like that IMO.
    …uh?

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