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Thread: Me + Contrary + Superego

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    Default Me + Contrary + Superego

    Has anyone been in this kind of situation?
    Iím introducing my contrary to my superego, their dual.
    ENTp and ISFp to be exact.
    Iíve hung out with the ENTp, my contrary, with other people before and there appeared to be no problem.
    I only spent a week with this person then we went our separate ways. During that week there was only one moment when we were alone. It was the most enjoyable part of my visit but we never argued in front of others and I had a good time overall.

    This other person, my superego, ISFp, is a longtime friend of mine. I also know how much or how little time to spend with her before we get on each otherís nerves.

    The ISFp wants to visit my ENTp friend with me.

    What do you think will happen? Has anyone experienced this?

    Ive brought the ISFp around my ESFp dual friend before, but this was pre-Socionics so I wasnít paying attention to the interactions. I do remember the ISFp insulting me once in front of my dual which hurt, but I brushed it off. The ESFp did get quiet around her, there was no arguing, but I did notice he was quieter than usual.

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    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    I work with a 39 yo male ILE and a 46 (?) yo married female SEI. They had been mostly avoiding each other, probably because they were busy learning their jobs, but I told them that they were each other's Duals. The SEI seems to either not understand or not care about Socionics, and the ILE told me that I'm full of malarky, but they started to talk. Now, they talk all the time and the ILE tells me to go find something else to do, rather than to bother them. They really do lean on each other for support now. Incidentally, the SEI is married to an ESE. I've talked to her about her Duality with the ILE, and I can tell that she wishes some things were different, but she's not going there. She has three kids and the ILE doesn't do relationships, it seems.


    The only time I saw them argue was when the ILE told the SEI that he was her boss (he isn't). She stood up from her desk and said, "No, I'M YOUR BOSS", and the ILE crept out of her office with his tail between his legs. However, it didn't seem to affect how much they like each other, and they both seem to be working harder and to have a reason now for coming into work, but I don't know the reason for this.

    So, @calm, expect to watch two weak magnets pull each other slowly closer, and for you to eventually be cut out entirely from the discussion as they discover how much better Duality is than Super-Ego or Contrary. Take heart from the fact that you did the right thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I work with a 39 yo male ILE and a 46 (?) yo married female SEI. They had been mostly avoiding each other, probably because they were busy learning their jobs, but I told them that they were each other's Duals. The SEI seems to either not understand or not care about Socionics, and the ILE told me that I'm full of malarky, but they started to talk. Now, they talk all the time and the ILE tells me to go find something else to do, rather than to bother them. They really do lean on each other for support now. Incidentally, the SEI is married to an ESE. I've talked to her about her Duality with the ILE, and I can tell that she wishes some things were different, but she's not going there. She has three kids and the ILE doesn't do relationships, it seems.


    The only time I saw them argue was when the ILE told the SEI that he was her boss (he isn't). She stood up from her desk and said, "No, I'M YOUR BOSS", and the ILE crept out of her office with his tail between his legs. However, it didn't seem to affect how much they like each other, and they both seem to be working harder and to have a reason now for coming into work, but I don't know the reason for this.

    So, @calm, expect to watch two weak magnets pull each other slowly closer, and for you to eventually be cut out entirely from the discussion as they discover how much better Duality is than Super-Ego or Contrary. Take heart from the fact that you did the right thing.
    I can always count on you for a timely response! Lol. I figured I’d get cut out. I was just hoping I wouldn’t have to deal with them hanging up on me or something along those lines. I wanna see them both happy and I know they’ll hit it off, but if this won’t improve my relationship with them but estrange us, idk if I wanna risk that. I want to be able to keep my friendships with both of them. I don’t even care if they hang out with each other without me so long as their feelings for me don’t change.

    also the ISFj has an ESFj twin. I imagine the three of them will meet up one day and that makes me even more pissed, I don’t like my conflict partner being around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by calm View Post
    I can always count on you for a timely response! Lol. I figured I’d get cut out. I was just hoping I wouldn’t have to deal with them hanging up on me or something along those lines. I wanna see them both happy and I know they’ll hit it off, but if this won’t improve my relationship with them but estrange us, idk if I wanna risk that. I want to be able to keep my friendships with both of them. I don’t even care if they hang out with each other without me so long as their feelings for me don’t change.

    also the ISFj has an ESFj twin. I imagine the three of them will meet up one day and that makes me even more pissed, I don’t like my conflict partner being around.
    How are you going to ensure that their feelings for you will never change? Of course they will change with every new relationship they encounter. (Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse.) Unless you lock them in the basement forever, and even then, their feelings for you will probably change.

    As dinner, hamburgers are pretty good compared to roadkill, but as soon as someone introduces you to a good grilled U.S. Prime steak, crisp on the outside and barely cooked on the inside, your feelings for hamburgers are going to change.

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    One can hang out peacefully with any type so long as there're no social and or work-related expectations of one another, and contrary partners will often have very exciting trysts. I think that superego is second only to dual in strength and not by much, and that superego relationships are by far easier to start because familiarity is created right-of-the-mark by similar thinking-process structures. There has to be something more than type going on for someone to drop a superego for a dual relationship that usually takes much longer to develop - for example, when the dual is more physically attractive than the superego because if the opposite were true, it would likely never happen.

    a.k.a. I/O
    Last edited by Rebelondeck; 07-17-2020 at 10:54 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    How are you going to ensure that their feelings for you will never change? Of course they will change with every new relationship they encounter. (Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse.) Unless you lock them in the basement forever, and even then, their feelings for you will probably change.

    As dinner, hamburgers are pretty good compared to roadkill, but as soon as someone introduces you to a good grilled U.S. Prime steak, crisp on the outside and barely cooked on the inside, your feelings for hamburgers are going to change.
    I never liked the taste of steak, and especially not rare steak — ideally medium, but I’d rather a steak be well done than rare. If I still ate beef, I’d take a hamburger (dry, with lettuce/tomato/onion) over a steak any day, and as things are, I’d prefer a good PB&J to a steak; possibly even a bad one.

    My opinion has long been that steak is overrated, and only appreciated so much because of its relative expense and “prestige” as a food. Frankly, I think many people’s opinions about food are socially constructed. Strawberries, for instance, are much more delicious than steak, caviar, or candy, but you don’t really see strawberries advertised much even though they aren’t too expensive or difficult to transport. The objection could be raised that strawberries aren’t filling. Just fry some potatoes, optionally add onions, and scramble eggs in the pan, and you’ve got a meal that tastes better than steak, and is cheaper to boot.

    Sure, everyone will say that they really enjoy the taste of steak regardless of what anyone thinks, but I don’t buy it. So much human activity is based on climbing a perceived social ladder regardless of its effects. Take smokers, or the leathery vampires who use tanning beds. Or how some women wear diamonds — if you want to be flashy, brightly colored gems, or even plastic beads, suit the purpose better! Why would food be any different? The steak industry is built more on people seeking approval than serving tasty food.

    I’m not sure if there’s a moral here to apply to the quoted analogy. Maybe that @calm & co should shun social expectations and rent an apartment together, having realized the importance of maintaining their friendships.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    One can hang out peacefully with any type so long as there're no social and or work-related expectations of one another, and contrary partners will often have very exciting trysts. I think that superego is second only to dual in strength and not by much, and that superego relationships are by far easier to start because familiarity is created right-of-the-mark by similar thinking-process structures. There has to be something more than type going on for someone to drop a superego for a dual relationship that usually takes much longer to develop - for example, when the dual is more physically attractive than the superego because if the opposite were true, it would likely never happen.


    a.k.a. I/O
    Really interesting what you say about superego relationships. I had the biggest crush on an SEI (si subtype) and have a strong bond with my INTP friend (te subtype). Maybe coz they resemble my super ego! Explains a lot..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    One can hang out peacefully with any type so long as there're no social and or work-related expectations of one another, and contrary partners will often have very exciting trysts. I think that superego is second only to dual in strength and not by much, and that superego relationships are by far easier to start because familiarity is created right-of-the-mark by similar thinking-process structures. There has to be something more than type going on for someone to drop a superego for a dual relationship that usually takes much longer to develop - for example, when the dual is more physically attractive than the superego because if the opposite were true, it would likely never happen.

    a.k.a. I/O
    You are on to something there, starting a superego relationship was easy compared to the duals I've encountered. Both being extroverts probably helps, but same cog style too since you instinctively understand the way they are thinking even if your values and thus conclusions are totally different. Also, I've typically found my superego partners physically more attractive than my duals. However, when it comes to the feeling of ease and happiness in each other's company duals are worlds better than super-ego. Discussions need to be limited in super-ego since they quickly spiral into arguments, while with duals (and activity) they could go on forever in a natural way.
    Super-ego is very challenging but difficult to drop because you always feel like that with just some adjustment (E<->I or P<->J) they could become your dual/activity. Obviously, this isn't possible but it's another thing to intellectually understand it than apply it in practice. Hence the many years of trying to make super-ego relations work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    ..... Discussions need to be limited in super-ego since they quickly spiral into arguments, while with duals (and activity) they could go on forever in a natural way....
    Ease of communication seems to depend more on background commonality such as religion, politics, education, ethnicity, hobbies and or social status. I remember having to quell a very disruptive argument between dual partners at work, one being military and the other a sort of peacenik.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    Ease of communication seems to depend more on background commonality such as religion, politics, education, ethnicity, hobbies and or social status. I remember having to quell a very disruptive argument between dual partners at work, one being military and the other a sort of peacenik.

    a.k.a. I/O
    I think both matter. In your example, wildly differing views on politics could override duality and cause them to fight over that. Duality is not a guarantee that you would share the same political niche.

    However, I've noticed the thing I mentioned with two siblings that shared exactly the same background, social status, even hobbies and workplace. That is what originally made me interested in socionics to find out why two seemingly similar people (contraries - the other IEE super-ego to me and the other IEI dual) could feel so different to communicate with. It was never about a single issue, just information metabolism in general.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    One can hang out peacefully with any type so long as there're no social and or work-related expectations of one another, and contrary partners will often have very exciting trysts. I think that superego is second only to dual in strength and not by much, and that superego relationships are by far easier to start because familiarity is created right-of-the-mark by similar thinking-process structures. There has to be something more than type going on for someone to drop a superego for a dual relationship that usually takes much longer to develop - for example, when the dual is more physically attractive than the superego because if the opposite were true, it would likely never happen.

    a.k.a. I/O
    I feel like I'm experiencing this now. I got a super ego friend and we are very close, I've considered making him my best man if I ever got married, so he's top of my list. But do you think super ego relations also can break from small things as well? I think because me and my friend are both J and I's when our values and beliefs don't match up it's a huge problem in the friendship to the point where it could end right there, mostly because often times we align so much that when we don't it's shocking. It seems like something small on the surface but it feels big enough to kill a long time friendship. And I haven't experienced this much with other types because most of the time we recognize what we do and don't agree and don't expect the other share our same values so we stick to neutral topics. Super ego seems to go deep but also you can also expect too much out of it. Like the relation is based on how identical we are on core values but the minute there is a difference of those core values the whole relation gets put into question. But this is LSI/EII super ego so idk how it goes for other pairs.

    If I had to take a basic guess my guess would be that we feel very close on the I and J front, almost identical there, but of course struggle on the S/N T/F front, but also admire the use of the other's PoLR and secretly learn from them on how to incorporate more of that in ourselves? Idk, it seems that way with me and my friend. I see alot of Se values in him and it's rubbed off on me wanting to aspire to be more like that and he's made comments on my use of Ne and wishing he had more of that, though he didn't use Socionics terms.

    Right now the 2 friends I talk to the most are dual and super ego. With dual we talk everyday about mundane ordinary things and it's on and off throughout the day in small chunks and large chunks. With super ego we don't talk everyday but when we do it's always about super deep topics and we talk for like 3-4 hours at a time. I have chats with the dual and "discussions" with the super ego. With dual I don't feel as identical with super ego, but with dual it's much easier. I feel like duality isn't as exciting for sure cuz duality just feels like water sometimes. Like me and my dual friend talk all the time and it honestly just feels normal and even keel, no huge ups no huge downs. I also don't feel like it takes one disagreement and boom it's all over like it feels with super ego sometimes.
    Last edited by Lord Pixel; 07-31-2020 at 07:04 AM.

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    Rebelondeck's Avatar
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    @Lord Pixel If you do ever start talking deep to your dual, I'm sure that you'll have the occasional blow up; duals and superegos have comparable N/S and F/T divides. Superegos can go deep immediately, which is why they're so easy to start; some duals never get there, which may contribute to a peaceful existence but a boring one. One problem with LSI-EII pairs is that in times of conflict, both tend to withdraw to their respective islands and fail to communicate whereas a LSE will often invade EII space not allowing the EII time to sulk and think the worse. Doubt in Ij-superego relationships does usually seem to originate from the EXIs; the LXIs may appear overly harsh and cutting to them simply because their connections are so deep.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    I will say something that I am experiencing now is that my ILE friend has an LSE friend, and when it became me EII/LSE/ and ILE. Socionics is starting to take place because right now me and the ILE's LSE friend talk more then we both talk to the ILE.

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