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Thread: Is enneagram unhealthy?

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    Default Is enneagram unhealthy?

    No i didn't mean he don't eat vegetables or do yoga two hours a day hahah
    i mean every time i tested myself getting a type diving deep into it until i tested as the whole 9 types and i actually disguised every type i tested as lol
    the more worst here is that i disguised the disintegration traits the unhealthy traits lol tested as a 4 the person who is always sad and in depressive mode well thats just how i disguised it not how 4s actually is, well, maybe lol. 8s who is aggressive lol 2 that are loving. enneagram tests actually suck lol i disguised all of that going from depression into anxiety into passiveness, aggressiveness into loving tf, i even made a false beliefs lol why, Why .... lol ... am i just a good actor or maybe its unhealthy to test /\/\/\/\/\/\


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    > i actually disguised every type i tested

    E-types are psyche accentuations same as Jung types. They all are kind of disorders. Why you should like them?

    On example of Jung types. You may like strong regions of types as they better fit to ideals. And when those are expressed harmoniously, for what they should be supported by equally expressed opposite functions. But there is nothing good to have weak regions, unwise behavior due to functions disbalance and weakness, inner conflicts from unconscious activity of functions. The similar is for E-types.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    maybe the issue isn't enneagram but whatever shitty tests you're doing to type as all 9 types

    either that or you need to get a better grasp of each type and of your own personality. People test all over the place on all typology systems so I'm not sure why this criticism is put to enneagram in particular
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaveYourself View Post
    maybe the issue isn't enneagram but whatever shitty tests you're doing to type as all 9 types

    either that or you need to get a better grasp of each type and of your own personality. People test all over the place on all typology systems so I'm not sure why this criticism is put to enneagram in particular
    I agree tests are informative but in no way the final word on one's type due to how inaccurate self report testing is.
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    Yes, I'm glad someone is finally talking about it. I think its unhealthy because it makes you focus more on the negative aspects of you and others than in the positive one's. Also that it proclaims itself as something enlighten enough to guide you through a growth path. Most enneagram teachers probably are not even therapists. IDK, but Enneagram feels pretty new age to me and my problem with new age is that it makes ppl to have "fake growth" (because no one wants to be defective ofc) so it embroil ppls to take the system and its teachers as moral authorities...i.e. "those are the only right paths of growth for you, because I (enneagram/enneagram teacher) say so, and if you don't like it, is because you are not ready for change/growth etc." It puts you in a position that doesn't allow you to be critical about it so it ends up feeling like manipulation to me.

    I don't find something to prove that there are just 9 kind of ppl and 9 possible ways to grow up as person. Feels too limited for me.
    Last edited by Tommy; 08-01-2020 at 08:27 PM.

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    I used to find enneagram depressing..and left it when I discovered socionics. But i went back to it when I saw that people like to describe their personalities with a combo of enneagram and sociotype. It’s worth reading around about instinct stacks (although the descriptions on the net are quite contradictory so you have to do some digging til it makes sense) and you could also look up tritype which is the idea that you may relate to three enneagram types not just one. (Also these aspects of enneagram sometimes feel a bit like descriptions of archetypes, similar to with socionics) There are different ideas about it all out there, just like with socionics. Something clicked about it for me in the end and I like thinking of my personality type in terms of both socionics and enneagram now, a nice grey area existing in between the two systems
    Last edited by bethanyrose; 08-01-2020 at 03:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Farag View Post
    No i didn't mean he don't eat vegetables or do yoga two hours a day hahah
    i mean every time i tested myself getting a type diving deep into it until i tested as the whole 9 types and i actually disguised every type i tested as lol
    the more worst here is that i disguised the disintegration traits the unhealthy traits lol tested as a 4 the person who is always sad and in depressive mode well thats just how i disguised it not how 4s actually is, well, maybe lol. 8s who is aggressive lol 2 that are loving. enneagram tests actually suck lol i disguised all of that going from depression into anxiety into passiveness, aggressiveness into loving tf, i even made a false beliefs lol why, Why .... lol ... am i just a good actor or maybe its unhealthy to test /\/\/\/\/\/\
    youre probably an image type, maybe 3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    Yes, I'm glad someone is finally talking about it. I think its unhealthy because it makes you focus more on the negative aspects of you and others than in the positive one's. Also that it proclaims itself as something enlighten enough to guide you through a growth path. Most enneagram teachers probably are not even therapists. IDK, but Enneagram feels pretty new age to me and my problem with new age is that it makes ppl to have "fake growth" (because no one wants to be defective ofc) so it embroil ppls to take the system and its teachers as moral authorities...i.e. "those are the only right paths of growth for you, because I (enneagram/enneagram teacher) say so, and if you don't like it, is because you are not ready for change/growth etc." It puts you in a position that doesn't allow you to be critical about it so it ends up feeling like manipulation to me.

    I don't find something to prove that there are just 9 kind of ppl and 9 possible ways to grow up as person. Feels too limited for me.
    enneagram can be negative but the whole point is to become more self aware. becoming aware of your core beliefs (which are only a piece of the truth) and eventually trying to let them go and see yourself for who you are is what it is about. every enneagram type as they integrate becomes less stereotypical like themselves, fixated on whatever it is their type fixates on, and become a more whole being.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    enneagram can be negative but the whole point is to become more self aware. becoming aware of your core beliefs (which are only a piece of the truth) and eventually trying to let them go and see yourself for who you are is what it is about. every enneagram type as they integrate becomes less stereotypical like themselves, fixated on whatever it is their type fixates on, and become a more whole being.
    yeah, but the whole "core beliefs" are more like pushing or forcing ppl to accept or adopt one of the 9, and why just 9? the "trying to let them go" is basically following the growth path enneagram suggest. Who are they to suggest such a thing? I mean, who says that the path they suggest is the correct one for you? That's my whole problem with it. Is basically accepting or believing something as truth, and then letting them tell you how to "fix" your life, just because they say so.

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    I don't think it's unhealthy but it can be used in unhealthy ways. I remember reading that the enneagram originated in Sufism as "the nine lies we tell ourselves" in a self-help book, which was probably that author oversimplifying, but still the whole point of it is to find how you're doing yourself in and stop it. It does end up being a narcissistic search for what makes one special because we all want to be unique and special and personality theories of any sort serve vanity. That is not all they serve of course, but I can't deny vanity is one of their functions. It's a shortcut to helping define your ego/identity as something you find unique/special/flattering enough, with of course the constant nagging sense of how that isn't authentic (there is no quick way to being/liking yourself). But the enneagram is ancient and originated in spirituality, and was always supposed to guide you out of self-delusion not further into it. It wasn't originally a personality system.

    But whether it is the lies we tell ourselves or "what kind of an idiot we are" the purpose is to expose ego games because often the ego stops its games when it's been called out, if it's called out so deeply it becomes clear that these games are pointless, false, self-defeating, and work in opposition to what one is actually looking for. Once it's clear enough, the games are abandoned. It's just difficult to get there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    yeah, but the whole "core beliefs" are more like pushing or forcing ppl to accept or adopt one of the 9, and why just 9? the "trying to let them go" is basically following the growth path enneagram suggest. Who are they to suggest such a thing? I mean, who says that the path they suggest is the correct one for you? That's my whole problem with it. Is basically accepting or believing something as truth, and then letting them tell you how to "fix" your life, just because they say so.
    very 6 to question all that. *.*
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    Yes, I'm glad someone is finally talking about it. I think its unhealthy because it makes you focus more on the negative aspects of you and others than in the positive one's. Also that it proclaims itself as something enlighten enough to guide you through a growth path. Most enneagram teachers probably are not even therapists. IDK, but Enneagram feels pretty new age to me and my problem with new age is that it makes ppl to have "fake growth" (because no one wants to be defective ofc) so it embroil ppls to take the system and its teachers as moral authorities...i.e. "those are the only right paths of growth for you, because I (enneagram/enneagram teacher) say so, and if you don't like it, is because you are not ready for change/growth etc." It puts you in a position that doesn't allow you to be critical about it so it ends up feeling like manipulation to me.

    I don't find something to prove that there are just 9 kind of ppl and 9 possible ways to grow up as person. Feels too limited for me.
    Only by understanding the bad can you strive for better..
    personally, enneagram helped me a lot
    i think, basically, it's a tool that can be used well or not, and certain people may naturally be better or worse at using it well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    very 6 to question all that. *.*
    More like the opposite don't you think? It is likely a 6 would believe in enneagram because they are afraid of not having guidance according enneagram institute. I just don't believe in something that has not proven to be true to me. As with most personality theories you could find similarities between you and a description, but that doesn't mean that you /or I or whoever, should follow or take their suggestions for "improvement". Its similar to when ppl take socionics as astrology, pretending to use it to predict the future of their relationships.

    Also that's part of my problem with enneagram. We all could be identified in almost all the 9 just because what you say. If you speak about love you are 2, if you call the attention you are 3, if you don't accept bs you are 6, if you are "aggressive" you are 8, if you seem like all the 8 you are 9. Seriously? It defies common sense and basic human psychology. And I have nothing against ppl who believes in enneagram, I just think its like a huge of forer effect.
    Last edited by Tommy; 08-02-2020 at 11:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    More like the opposite don't you think? It is likely a 6 would believe in enneagram because they are afraid of not having guidance according enneagram institute. I just don't believe in something that has not proven to be true to me. As with most personality theories you could find similarities between you and a description, but that doesn't mean that you /or I or whoever, should follow or take their suggestions for "improvement". Its similar to when ppl take socionics as astrology, pretending to use it to predict the future of their relationships.
    its also a 6 trait to question everything and be skeptical. maybe you should read up more. it corresponds to ni HA btw
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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    its also a 6 trait to question everything and be skeptical. maybe you should read up more. it corresponds to ni HA btw
    I've read enneagram and I my basic fear doesn't match with 6 that's what I was talking about (because you are using it wrong).

    And are you saying all LSIs are 6? it doesn't correspond to Ni HA because enneagram and socionics are two different systems so the correspondence is entirely subjective. Also I'm not not Ni HA and If I wanted to pick an etype (which I did before) wouldn't be 6.

    Everybody can be the 9 etypes depending of what we are talking about. Its kinda silly.

    Be skeptical should be a natural process to choose between right and wrong not a "sin" that a system wants to eradicate. Same with the rest of the numbers. Is the enneagram a religion that forbids any kind of criticism? That's why I say enneagram is unhealthy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    Only by understanding the bad can you strive for better..
    personally, enneagram helped me a lot
    i think, basically, it's a tool that can be used well or not, and certain people may naturally be better or worse at using it well.
    My problem is not accepting any bad. I actually believe all human are wrongdoers that occasionally do good. Most ppl is not even willing to accept that, because that would mean a lot of responsibility that they can't take. Its easier to follow stuff like enneagram for example. Its pop. Its new age. It just tells you that you should not question enneagram (or you are a 6 in trouble) or that you should not be a goody two shoes (1) or a moron (8) etc. I think mankind needs more than that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    its also a 6 trait to question everything and be skeptical. maybe you should read up more. it corresponds to ni HA btw
    I want to hear more about this, I'm 9000% type 6w5. Plz explain.
    Proofs: https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...5-test-RESULTS

    ESI & LSI are rationals tho, which is practically impossible for me.. I'm far too easy going, adaptive & flexible (IP or EP), consider every probability and overthink be4 deciding. Rational - Irrational is one of the clearest dichotomies in my case with a clear preference for Irrational. Even in MBTI I score 80%+ P. Either that or I'm overestimating this in myself. Considering I'm melancholic-choleric and most ppl's "high" standards seem below my basic expectation of what "a job done well" actually looks like.. I might be rational? Maybe.

    It kinda depends tho, H!tler was type 6 sx/so counterphobic and he was EIE.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    My problem is not accepting any bad. I actually believe all human are wrongdoers that occasionally do good. Most ppl is not even willing to accept that, because that would mean a lot of responsibility that they can't take. Its easier to follow stuff like enneagram for example. Its pop. Its new age. It just tells you that you should not question enneagram (or you are a 6 in trouble) or that you should not be a goody two shoes (1) or a moron (8) etc. I think mankind needs more than that.
    e_e eh, you have the wrong idea here. Just ignore the descriptions. I have a thread on how to type yourself correctly in the enneagram and to cut out all the superfluous BS, here: https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...enneagram-type

    The eannagram gave me a clear idea of wtf I should do to better myself: having faith in myself & being courageous as well as to just act already IF I'm overthinking something, because I probably considered it more thoroughly than 90% of ppl would already and I'm just afraid to take the next step. also to just STOP if I'm going into paranoid inquisition mode.

    *shrug* it just works and its been a positive in my life. Kinda like self awareness.
    Last edited by shotgunfingers; 08-03-2020 at 06:04 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    I actually believe all human are wrongdoers that occasionally do good.
    also a 6 trait. also corresponds to having Ne Fi in superego. ive got a similar problem. most of it is projection also.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    I want to hear more about this, I'm 9000% type 6w5. Plz explain.
    Proofs: https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...5-test-RESULTS

    ESI & LSI are rationals tho, which is practically impossible for me.. I'm far too easy going, adaptive & flexible (IP or EP), consider every probability and overthink be4 deciding. Rational - Irrational is one of the clearest dichotomies in my case with a clear preference for Irrational. Even in MBTI I score 80%+ P. Either that or I'm overestimating this in myself. Considering I'm melancholic-choleric and most ppl's "high" standards seem below my basic expectation of what "a job done well" actually looks like.. I might be rational? Maybe.

    It kinda depends tho, H!tler was type 6 sx/so counterphobic and he was EIE.



    e_e eh, you have the wrong idea here. Just ignore the descriptions. I have a thread on how to type yourself correctly in the enneagram and to cut out all the superfluous BS, here: https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...enneagram-type

    The eannagram gave me a clear idea of wtf I should do to better myself: having faith in myself & being courageous as well as to just act already IF I'm overthinking something, because I probably considered it more thoroughly than 90% of ppl would already and I'm just afraid to take the next step. also to just STOP if I'm going into paranoid inquisition mode.

    *shrug* it just works and its been a positive in my life. Kinda like self awareness.
    idk youre not vibing like a 6 tbh. youre vibing like an F type, and like an image type in enneagram. im getting 2 vibes somehow. well i can be wrong cuz im basing you of like a couple forum posts.
    ****** was EIE and was a 2w1 he was not a 6. its just the drugs that made him paranoid and go insane. making it seem like unhealthy 6.
    if you are a 6 you would be LSI which i dont think you are tbh. you seem like at least an extrovert to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    idk youre not vibing like a 6 tbh. youre vibing like an F type, and like an image type in enneagram. im getting 2 vibes somehow. well i can be wrong cuz im basing you of like a couple forum posts.
    ****** was EIE and was a 2w1 he was not a 6. its just the drugs that made him paranoid and go insane. making it seem like unhealthy 6.
    if you are a 6 you would be LSI which i dont think you are tbh. you seem like at least an extrovert to me.
    Both Naranjo and Katherine Fauvre consider mustache man type 6 CP. A 6 can be phobic (stereotypical ESI) or counter-phobic which behaves more like type 8, but the underlying reasons are vastly different. David Letterman for example is also type 6.

    The description is misleading as it mainly describes an SJ-ish phobic personality (the most common type 6). The core motivations are what count in the end.

    ESE is a more common type 2 or SEI. EIEs are more Steve Jobs / Lady Gaga kind of ppl.

    I recommend reading this: https://www.amazon.com/Personality-T.../dp/0395798671
    ..and taking the RHETI / gettin an evaluation.

    Thats how I know for example I'm 6w5 counter-phobic and not a 4 or an 8.

    I'm some kind of gamma type, this is rather true of me:

    Gamma: Integrity-Seeking and World-Rejecting. Includes ESI, SEE, LIE and ILI. Thought to have a “mature” mentality. Combines harsh judgment with strategic thinking. This means that Gammas prefer to remain independent from the controls and influences of other people, striving to fulfil their own ambitions as a matter of personal achievement. They prefer to look at facts in the long term, doing what is prudent for their future and sacrificing daily concerns for what will be best later on. Socialising is a pragmatic means of meeting people who can be trusted and form meaningful relations with. New people are quickly judged, with a strong emphasis on individuals being essentially good and trustworthy. More pragmatic, working relations can be formed, although scumbags will be rejected with vitriol. People are thus treated as individuals who could either be allies or enemies, depending on their set, inner nature. Gammas will tend to consider their own opinions towards issues carefully and when necessary, will prefer people to speak their mind harshly and disagree rather than try to stay friendly. They can be extreme in their attitudes towards other people, forming long-lasting grudges against those they deem 'evil'. To envision a Gamma setting, think of a business meeting or else the lone entrepreneur, trying to solidify a profitable future.
    Last edited by shotgunfingers; 08-03-2020 at 09:45 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    Both Naranjo and Katherine Fauvre consider mustache man type 6 CP. A 6 can be phobic (stereotypical ESI) or counter-phobic which behaves more like type 8, but the underlying reasons are vastly different. David Letterman for example is also type 6.

    The description is misleading as it mainly describes an SJ-ish phobic personality (the most common type 6). The core motivations are what count in the end.

    ESE is a more common type 2 or SEI. EIEs are more Steve Jobs / Lady Gaga kind of ppl.

    I recommend reading this: https://www.amazon.com/Personality-T.../dp/0395798671
    ..and taking the RHETI / gettin an evaluation.

    Thats how I know for example I'm 6w5 counter-phobic and not a 4 or an 8.


    I'm some kind of gamma type, this is rather true of me:

    Gamma: Integrity-Seeking and World-Rejecting. Includes ESI, SEE, LIE and ILI. Thought to have a “mature” mentality. Combines harsh judgment with strategic thinking. This means that Gammas prefer to remain independent from the controls and influences of other people, striving to fulfil their own ambitions as a matter of personal achievement. They prefer to look at facts in the long term, doing what is prudent for their future and sacrificing daily concerns for what will be best later on. Socialising is a pragmatic means of meeting people who can be trusted and form meaningful relations with. New people are quickly judged, with a strong emphasis on individuals being essentially good and trustworthy. More pragmatic, working relations can be formed, although scumbags will be rejected with vitriol. People are thus treated as individuals who could either be allies or enemies, depending on their set, inner nature. Gammas will tend to consider their own opinions towards issues carefully and when necessary, will prefer people to speak their mind harshly and disagree rather than try to stay friendly. They can be extreme in their attitudes towards other people, forming long-lasting grudges against those they deem 'evil'. To envision a Gamma setting, think of a business meeting or else the lone entrepreneur, trying to solidify a profitable future.
    ok well if u got ur own ideas listen to yourself then bro. dont come to me asking for explanations and then debate me
    ~ ESTP ~ SLE ~ ESTp ~ Self-Pres 7w8 ~ Sp/Sx ~ Fire Element ~ Aries Sign ~ Beta Quadra ~ Gryffindor House ~ Summer Season ~ SLUEN ~

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    shotgunfingers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    ok well if u got ur own ideas listen to yourself then bro. dont come to me asking for explanations and then debate me
    Idk, I thought you had some Ti logic based on what you were assertive about Ni HA being 6 and I was curious about that, your reasons why you think that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    Idk, I thought you had some Ti logic based on what you were assertive about Ni HA being 6 and I was curious about that, your reasons why you think that.
    because 6s need to believe in something. believing in something has to do with meaning, and meaning is ni
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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    because 6s need to believe in something. believing in something has to do with meaning, and meaning is ni
    Hmm, yeah that makes sense. A 6 requires some outside structure or authority they can hold onto, because we lack inner guidance & doubt a lot. That "something" can be another person, a philosophy, some kind of religion, some kind of rules for life, science, God and so on. The 6 should however develop faith in the self, in their own inner guidance and abandon trying to hold onto some external authority. (harder than it sounds)

    So yeah, could be Ni related. I have a hard time imagining any 6 being "world accepting aka Ne <-> Si" .. imo its always some kind of "world rejecting Se <-> Ni" type. Either beta or gamma.
    LSI-H - - Melancholy|Sanguine - 6w5-4-8 Sp/Sx - MBTI IST
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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    also a 6 trait. also corresponds to having Ne Fi in superego. ive got a similar problem. most of it is projection also.
    No, it corresponds to being christian. You are projecting youself. Also that wouldnt be 6 it would be 1. I'm not LSI and you are using typology the wrong way. You need to read more about socionics, for example Ni role.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    No, it corresponds to being christian. You are projecting youself. Also that wouldnt be 6 it would be 1. I'm not LSI and you are using typology the wrong way. You need to read more about socionics, for example Ni role.
    ok buddyboi
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    This is a decent type 6 description: https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...-6-description

    So first 6-es can be more like Type 1 (often confused for one)

    e_e I'm 100% sure I'm a 6, so if there are any questions AMA.
    LSI-H - - Melancholy|Sanguine - 6w5-4-8 Sp/Sx - MBTI IST
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    It's true some enneagram descrptions are like pits of despair one can drown into. It's also true some people think they can tell you how to live and want to take your power away.
    It's also true that any piece of information can be used in a positive manner, no matter how dark or bright.
    Only you know what's good for you.

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