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Thread: Happily Married Non-Dual Couples

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    Default Happily Married Non-Dual Couples

    Discuss relationships you are or have been in or that you know where the people involved are not duals, but seem happy. Preferably those who have kids.

    Edit: I would also appreciate as much detail and description as possible. Some detail that sheds light on why you consider the people to be the types that they are is necessary for it to be considered a real data point.

    I have lived with an LII male and IEI female couple who seem happy, relatively speaking. Two adult daughters. They run a farm and small business together too.
    Last edited by sbbds; 06-16-2020 at 03:36 AM.

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    I totally don't know them in person, but Bill and Melinda Gates come to my mind (from famous people). Seem very happy; Bill is LIE but Melinda doesn't sound ESI.

    I know a happy pair of what I suppose are ILI and another introvert (another ILI? XSI? SLI? who knows), but they are yet to be married.

    Two history teachers from my high school were married happily for many years: it seemed that the male was IEE? while the woman was I think XLI (more ILI?). I didn't know them that well unfortunately - but the impression at the very least was the pal was some ExFx while she was some IxTx. But that could be duality (afaik they are still married).

    (vast majority of my friends are still unmarried, so I don't know many close-to-me examples)

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    Two pairs come to mind, both Mirage. I don't know for sure that everything's rosy, but both partnerships seem stable and well-functioning. They also don't complain about their partners even in passing little remarks, which I take as a good sign.

    The first is an IEI married to an ILE. They have two elementary-school aged girls. She (IEI) seems happy. I think the ILE (enneagram 3) is sometimes prone to depression, but that's just a hunch and she never really talks about it.

    The second is an SLI woman married to an SEE man. They have really compatible life goals and enneagram numbers (9 and 6) and seem to make a great team. They've been married about two years, and just bought a house and had a baby. She's told me she feels a missing component is lively, deep conversation (Ne-seeking), but I don't get the sense it's a huge issue. She's a 9 and Sp/So, and I think is pretty happy with the stability and peace she's found with him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emily View Post
    The first is an IEI married to an ILE. They have two elementary-school aged girls. She (IEI) seems happy. I think the ILE (enneagram 3) is sometimes prone to depression, but that's just a hunch and she never really talks about it.
    Can I ask what makes you think the ILE is ILE rather than SLE?

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    @Emily I ask because people have a tendency to think the more skinny, cerebral variants of SLE are just ILEs.

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    IEE and ILI. They just had a baby
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    @Emily I ask because people have a tendency to think the more skinny, cerebral variants of SLE are just ILEs.
    Hmm yeah, good question. Not 100% sure he's ILE, so just going off my gut here. Having met a few SLEs more recently, our interactions are so completely different. I seem to have a visceral response to meeting SLEs because I feel like they actually "see" me in terms of non-verbals. Like they just know what I'm thinking based on minute changes in my appearance or quick eye glances, there's so much they pick up on without a word.

    All ILEs I've known are more auditory rather than visual and I get the feeling they're listening to me but not looking at me, if that makes sense. Like they look into my eyes but they're not picking up on body language or expressions at all, it's more tone of voice. I feel like I have to explain myself a lot verbally to ILEs.

    That's my very non-scientific analysis!

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    do semi duals count, lol? lii male cousin married to an eie for the past 16yrs(?) they got married pretty young. they have 3 daughters. i think lii is satisfied with her fe (she definitely doesn’t give him the si he desperately vies for to the dismay of my aunt, unlike a ‘proper’ wife), and she doesn’t find him exciting enough or fitting the ideals she has, or living the wild life she secretly wants...like she’s pulled certain se-seeking stunts in the past. lii cousin is pretty much whipped for her, but she doesn’t feel much for him at all, i think... but, this just further affirms my belief, a man will leave a good woman but a woman would not leave a good man. theyre doing well together now though, compared to a few years ago when eie was sort of unhappy.

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    The possibility that types of 2 people are identified correctly is only ~15-20%, in average. It follows from the accuracy expected based on real typing matches near that number.
    So, in common, reports about observations of concrete IR in pairs you may get are not significantly meaningful. While it's not all what reduces it.

    It would be better to talk about 3 categories for pairs: good (dual, semidual, activator), neutral and bad IR (opposite quadra, order, revising).

    It's hard to evaluate the degree people are satisfied in relations. except expressed cases.
    Generally people look "normally" and we don't know what they feel.
    It's possibly to compare how often pairs break with different IR, for example. This would say something objectively about how good they feel together compared to other pairs.
    May be it's possibly to understand the degree people are feeling good in during different communication and in general by objective hormones, brain activity or other.

    also
    It's possibly when you are in a pair, to feel good or badly by other factors except IR.
    Many people may feel generally good, despite not the best IR (neutral IR should be spreaded) they may have in a pair. They just have stable enough psyche and other factors to compensate harder relations in a pair. Other good traits in people. Communications and interests outside.
    Anyway, good IR give a possibility for better emotions and use in a pair, by helping to have better friendship and deeper love.

    In case of bad IR - if you establish long psyche distance then IR will influence lesser - you'll not get much good from relations, but you'll reduce significant part of possible bad too from personal misfiting. You will not have good and supporting friendship, but you may have acceptable neighbours alike relations with sex and some shared duties.
    In case of too bad IR people may more often cheat and such compensate the lack of good feelings and such support bad pairs to exist.

    In case of good IR. If you'll not make efforts to establish good and close friendship - alike to join your minds and lifes as much as possibly - you'll miss alot of possible good from good IR. You may even don't notice a difference between worse IR in such case. As you did not used good IR possibilities to understand why those are better.
    Different people traits and environment situations, including cultural, may be obstacles to make good frienship in a pair. Hence to use good IR possibilities.

    -

    It may be said that duality IR are important for pairs as one of factors. Said by the reasonable theory, subjective experiences and some experimental data.
    It's not known in what _concrete_ degree for emotional state compared with other IRs. In what degree people feel better having duality IR than they feel in average. May there be groups of people which get more use from good IR in pairs. What conditions in realtions are needed to get the use from good IR.

    Stay many questions to research still, to proof or disproof, to explain a seen. Theory speculations is what we have still, mainly.
    Examples of pairs which we see in life is not enough to be called as good material. There is strong lack of objective info about those pairs, especially to compare with other pairs. Also there are many mistypings, not all pairs we may type with assurance. We know not so many pairs of people during the life for the generalization.
    It strongly needs normal researches of the theory conclusions and some experiences we have.
    Last edited by Sol; 06-17-2020 at 03:41 PM.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Shut the fuck up @Sol .

    Ok, this is the only one that hasn’t been totally derailed and destroyed yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Shut the fuck up @Sol .
    Ok, this is the only one that hasn’t been totally derailed and destroyed yet.
    women logic is amazing
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    women logic is amazing
    Solbbds is my new OTP of 16t.
    devourer of the sun // consumer of the moon
    & you know now,
    that anything alone is
    a haunting

    & any two things
    together is a terror.
    What use are flowers?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pirouette View Post
    Solbbds is my new OTP of 16t.
    conflictors are true soulmates
    just may hide it good
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Pretty much most of the couples close to me are non duals but happy with each other. Maybe not as perfect as the idealized image of duality in socionics which i doubt of its practicality in real life anyways. It always a roller-coaster at the beginning but as time went by, it becomes easier especially if the people inside the relationship has similar values and aim in life. My parents are LSE and ESI. My father is a LSE, the sole breadwinner, a very serious and religious man. My mother is a housewife and because of her strictness and yet with her maternal warmth has made us siblings decent humans. I can see my father compensated his needs for the so called Ne with other things such as technologies and his surroundings instead from a partner. My partner and I have been together for 14 years (tho only been married for several years) and we are both ESIs. We are each other's first love. Now both of us are in our 30's and with a child. We are too similar in strength and weakness but I won't trade it for a dual. I've learnt that in order to be happy we have to work on it hard. Perhaps by trying to be our own dual, or we can seek help from other things or people too not neccessarily solely by our partner in certain things that we really bad at.
    Last edited by tru; 06-22-2020 at 07:27 PM.

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    I know a lot of introverted activity pairs who seem to be happy with each other. Now I personally think they don't interact with the outside world in a satisfactory way but that's my personal opinion.

    I don't know any happy extroverted pair.

    I know some compatible-temperament couples which are non-dual and they seem to work quite well, like LSE with ESI or ILI with IEE and so on.
    Last edited by FDG; 06-22-2020 at 08:06 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emily View Post
    All ILEs I've known are more auditory rather than visual and I get the feeling they're listening to me but not looking at me, if that makes sense. Like they look into my eyes but they're not picking up on body language or expressions at all, it's more tone of voice. I feel like I have to explain myself a lot verbally to ILEs.

    That's my very non-scientific analysis!
    You know what they say about first impressions. I think once I have seen a posture and so on I suppose that I assume nothing changes you got the situational balance in terms of physical state. Like you would have go out of the room and re-enter. OTOH mental state via words are much more changeable because I kind of manipulate it as well. Works by planting hidden triggers by both. Hidden guessing game where being explicit is not really appreciated.
    Measuring you right now

    Winning is for losers

     

    Sincerely yours,
    idiosyncratic type

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    Quote Originally Posted by tru View Post
    Pretty much most of the couples close to me are non duals but happy with each other.
    Most couples are not happy. ~50% of them divorces
    Among the rest it's impossibly that all have great feelings. Generally they are together because of passion which much reduces after some years, material interests and duties. The majority of those 50% has no deep friendship or love between them, so people have no so good relations and feelings. Besides people traits which can be not best for friendship, today individualistic culture opposes to love be.
    It's not clear what feelings people have when you don't know them very close. But it's possibly to notice are people good friends or not. Love is impossible without friendship feelings.
    Also people which have love have higher satisfaction by the life and have lesser negative emotions - they are happier, more kind to other people and more optimistic than average. It's hard to say that majority of people looks happy.

    3/16 IR can be said as good for marriages. Other IR make chronic significant personality conflicts (this does not mean open querrels), which make harder to have friendship relations. Mb 20-30% of pairs have those good IR - near that % would be accidentally, while a sympathy of good IR should also predispose to such choices.

    > Maybe not as perfect as the idealized image of duality in socionics which i doubt of its practicality in real life anyways

    When the theory is correct - it supposes a "practicality in real life". Jung type is just not all what influences on relations, traits and behavior of people.

    > It always a roller-coaster at the beginning but as time went by, it becomes easier especially if the people inside the relationship has similar values and aim in life.

    The emotional quality of relations (in the beginning and later) is very different and IR is one of significant factors of this. Besides similar values (aims follow from them), it's important how much people may support each other. Values+support possibility is where duality helps a lot.

    > We are too similar in strength and weakness but I won't trade it for a dual.

    You'd felt emotionally better and your interests better cared in a duality pair. And hence you'd prefer this, when having other similar conditions. You have no experience to compare to understand this. In weak regions you often want a support and identity will not give it so good as a dual. This support also activates your unconsious activity - you are feeling yourself as more energized, having higher selfesteem, feeling lesser doubts and anxiety. You get better contact with you activated weak regions - your mind changes to be wiser and fuller.

    Same as you overesteemated about "most happy" pairs, you lack the objectivity in the claims about identity preference above a duality. Though, you used a term "partner" - IR theory is made for pairs of different sexes, while pairs of same sexes may to have IR effects expressed some differently. I doubt that duality is not best for all, anyway, but initial IR effects without close relations may be different - what may lead that there can be more of homosexual pairs with close types than among pairs of man+woman.

    > I've learnt that in order to be happy we have to work on it hard.

    It's universal. Without efforts to care about interests of other one - may be ruined any relations. With better IR is needs lesser of efforts and have a potential to get better final result.

    > Perhaps by trying to be our own dual

    To try to be good in weak regions is common for duality relations too. A dual not only cares better there, but also helps and partly demands from you to be better there - he easily notices such problems and your weaknesses harm the life of both. Dual much reminds a parrent, while being a friend as equally requires your support.

    > or we can seek help from other things or people too not neccessarily solely by our partner

    Practically it's doubtful to be close. As needs comparably close friendship relations when you'd joined minds and lifes with ones having good IR. You'll stay with significant hunger. If you never felt differently having mutual feelings in good IR you may don't understand what you lack, how better you may feel.
    Identity is your mirror. It's not what fills you inside to make you more as person. Alike this you feel in good IR romance.
    Last edited by Sol; 06-23-2020 at 09:33 AM.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    @tru I really appreciated your input. Can just ignore some of the ramblings of the 40 something year old single Russian dude above who has no experience in these matters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by COVID 007 View Post
    OTOH mental state via words are much more changeable because I kind of manipulate it as well. Works by planting hidden triggers by both. Hidden guessing game where being explicit is not really appreciated.
    That’s interesting to me. Can you explain more / give some examples?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    That’s interesting to me. Can you explain more / give some examples?
    Ne/Si interaction usually involves reading between the lines. That is literal interpretation is more or less a joke. Where Si sees non existent subjective glitter Ne goes beyond what can be seen. Bad Ne from Si means seeing bad implications or bad Si from Ne means bad Si anticipations.

    You say something it triggers some weird diffused concepts so connections become loose and Si gets to apply or experience their non existing glittery world in new places.
    Measuring you right now

    Winning is for losers

     

    Sincerely yours,
    idiosyncratic type

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    Quote Originally Posted by COVID 007 View Post
    Ne/Si interaction usually involves reading between the lines. That is literal interpretation is more or less a joke. Where Si sees non existent subjective glitter Ne goes beyond what can be seen. Bad Ne from Si means seeing bad implications or bad Si from Ne means bad Si anticipations.

    You say something it triggers some weird diffused concepts so connections become loose and Si gets to apply or experience their non existing glittery world in new places.
    Sounds.. fun.

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