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Thread: Systemic racism does not exist, BLM is stupid

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    Eh, missing the point a bit. What you had to say would label you as an opponent in their eyes. You did, after all, deny a central tenet of their dogma. You seem to believe, rightfully so if you are a rational being, that "sins" must have an avenue through which they can be forgiven.

    Ah my poor sorry optimist, I call them a "death cult" for damn good reason. They have a doctrine of "original sin" yet offer no real way to redeem anyone guilty of it from it's pernicious effects. Thus, they/we must all die nice and slow. Bonus: they have no limiting principle. Thus, even if all the most vile "X" (whatever they define that as) die there's always the next rung down the "stack".

    Eventually, they will label "living" to be an unjust and vile "privilege" and thus the only way sentient life can "atone" is to commit suicide. Though I am quite sure the "elite" will insist that everyone else accept the "honor" of dying first.
    You are mixing up different groups. Not being very clear about who “they” and “their” are btw. It’s almost like you’re using a non-binary pronoun lol.

    I’m not sure what you’re labeling as sin or atonement here either, relative to what I said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onfireee View Post
    obstacles due to systemic racism i'm assuming... what are these exactly because people throw out these words without giving examples
    Off the top of my head, blacks in the US make significantly less money on average than whites. This is due to discrimination in hiring for jobs, and being redlined into undesirable living areas. Education in neighborhoods depends on the earnings of those who live there, so schools in poor neighborhoods are badly funded. Health professionals are likely to discriminate against black people--they don't take their pain as seriously as they do the pain of white people. IOW, white people on average have much better healthcare in this nation with crap healthcare. Black neighborhoods are more likely to be dumped on with pollutants by corporations because black people can't fight back as easily as white people (both due to income problems and due to how society listens to the grievances of white people while often dismissing the grievances of black people). Black people are more likely to live in "food deserts" and not have access to healthy food like vegetables. Black people are more likely to be working in essential jobs during the pandemic, which exposes them to COVID (ahem I mean SARS-CoV-2!) more. But don't you worry, the surgeon general was sure to tell them they need to take better care of themselves! And yes, he's a black man, but that's the deeply insidious thing about systemic racism--anti-black and anti-minority bias is something we all absorb through our cultural values as shown to us on our TV/laptop screens.

    Links:
    https://www.vox.com/2020/6/17/212845...arts-explained
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQACkg5i4AY (perceptions of children)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34qNFIH3vCE (talks about policing and a bit about how it's not only US racism, and hints that class is incredibly relevant)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aCn72iXO9s (the whole tree is rotten)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBYUET24K1c (white rage)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBYUET24K1c (former Baltimore cop on targeting black men)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXCwZeKOp2E (US house judiciary hearing on reparations for African Americans)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgbS7R-k3Yc (AOC on changes needed)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCBpZNJsiRE (on the overall inequality of our world, which I feel is deeply connected to racism as economics ALWAYS has been; the super rich don't wanna change)

    You really only need to search this topic online and look for stuff (including the things I mentioned that I provided no links for). There are a ton of books out there, for anyone who wants to actually look. I am not some expert, but there ARE experts.

    I mentioned NBA/NFL because they're obviously rich AF $$$. Most of the players in the organization are black - pretty much all of them. Its been this way for a while. Could you argue that the organization is systemically racist against white people or non-blacks?
    No. You never hear white people talking about how they've been discriminated against in these sports. It honestly seems like a matter of who performs better. And yes NFL players and players in other sports like basketball are rich. But I think classism can still apply to them because they have employers. The employers will pay them millions of dollars but is it reasonable for them to say they own the souls of their employees? This is a problem I have in general with corporations. Corporations that pay people minimum wage demand the same--erasure of the individual to become a corporate drone who projects the corporate image. This kind of thing feeds into why there have been so many reports during the pandemic of customer service workers being treated really badly. Even during a pandemic, a lot of customers had no mercy for them. They've been conditioned to feel that entitled.

    Is a football player a human being? Or is a football player an NFL caricature to entertain us? It's just astonishing to me that all Kaepernick did was say that this country doesn't grant his people their full civil rights so he doesn't want to stand for the national anthem though he will *kneel* instead, and everyone is up in arms about it. Even his statement aside, people should be allowed to lay in the grass for the anthem, or do push-ups during it, or scream "FU America!" or whatever they want. I don't even know why the national anthem has to play anyway. And btw, I also feel I should bring in how many people in football end up with brain damage from being hit in the head too many times. The NFL has many things it needs to admit to. When they say they care about their players I don't believe them. They only changed their stance on Kaepernick due to protests (when they saw how many Americans are angry about racism), not due to their own values. Like most rich corporations or organizations, they care only about money, not real people, not human lives, not the heartfelt opinions of their employees. I am proud to have never purchased an NFL ticket. They are barbaric as long as they don't acknowledge how badly this sport screws up a lot of its players. Millions of dollars or your brain? You decide (oh wait, they won't tell you that might happen to you and neither will your high school or your junior high--oh thank you USA football culture for destroying young people's brains!). Not to say NFL is alone in this, there's another sport that goes by the name of football that has a serious problem with this, and isn't majority black (that I know of).


    Because they are white...Are you not allowed to disagree if you're white? What about the black fans that disagreed?

    Isn't "because they are white" a racist statement in of itself?
    It's not a racist statement because whites hold the power in the USA. Whites are not oppressed. Whites can suffer prejudice from others, but the system favors them. That's why the average white household makes a lot more money than the average black household. And wait, did I say "because they are white"? Kaepernick was making a political statement about how this country doesn't grant black people the same rights/opportunities it does white people, how it discriminates against and kills black people. Who got all upset about that, who used the argument that he's not being "patriotic" enough? Certainly not a majority of black people. This is not to say there are not some black people who feel in their patriotic fervor that what he did was wrong, but that is not the majority. I also doubt so much of a backlash would have happened were Kaepernick white. Remember, in USA when white people with guns come out to protest the shut down they deserve our sympathy and Trump will call on them to "liberate" their states. When an unarmed black man takes a knee during football, however, OMG it's the end of the world! When people take to the streets in protest of police killings of black people, Trump uses words like "thug" and he hides in his bunker, while the political right does all it can to intertwine looting with peaceful protesters. The system is not fair.

    On June 4, Kaepernick signed a six-year contract extension with the 49ers, worth up to $126 million, including $54 million in potential guarantees, and $13 million fully guaranteed.
    I didn't read about this so I don't know about it, BUT June 4th is after the George Floyd protests started. Oh brave NFL, way to save face? Was some Ni involved? It's a Socionics victory!


    Lil Wayne when asked about BLM

    "What is it? What do you mean?"

    "It just sounds weird (the name "BLM"), I don't know, that you put a name on it. It's not a name. It's not whatever whatever. It's somebody got shot by police and for a fucked up reason."




    He'd put all the puppets here to shame
    He's one man. Of course there are white cops who have helped and saved black people. A problem being systemic does not mean that some don't act outside of that system. Most people want to be "good," they want to help other people. But there are several forces at work. 1. The police historically were used to oppress black people trying to fight for their rights, and used to kill them, and that culture is still with them. 2. The police are overly punitive, abusive and militarized. They go right to deadly force far too quickly. 3. The police disproportionately kill black people. 4. A lot of the police are afraid of black people and that leads to them shooting black people rather than waiting for the horrors in their imagination to come true (this is because our culture paints black people as dangerous murderous criminals). It's easier for them to justify to themselves the killing of a black person. 4. The police have a lot of laws as well as their super powerful union on their side--they are practically untouchable. 5. Some police are not simply afraid, they hate black people, they have learned this hate from somewhere. Chauvin is a good example--who does that, who kneels on someone's neck saying patronizing things while they DIE. We all watched this racism in action and it's not an isolated incident. I can see the racism emanating off of Chauvin. It's in his voice, his actions. He does NOT treat Floyd like a human being.

    Anyway, IMO, you need a better argument than saying, hey, this one black guy said X. That's like a person saying "most people believe the Earth is a spherical planet in a solar system" and someone coming in to say, but look there's this man, this flat earther man, and he says otherwise! Don't you suggest most humans believe in this planet and solar system thing, this one guy is here to tell us about the TRUTH and surely he's a representative of humankind because he IS a human! (It's not quite like that, but hopefully you get my drift. I'm not saying Lil Wayne is nuts just that his opinion is not the majority opinion.) Also I looked up the interview with Lil Wayne when he said this and I can feel the white interviewer guy's motives of wanting to debunk racism. Since many evoke their socionics abilities, just know, my Fe is informing me of all of this. As an Fe creative I have POWERFUL Fe. I need to go revel in my powers now. I have a date with my ego. Bye!
    Last edited by marooned; 06-18-2020 at 03:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onfireee View Post
    slavery ended in 1865

    racial segregation (jim crow) in the 1960s

    redlining was banned 50 years ago.

    mass incarceration - if u deserve to go to jail u go to jail.

    Did you even read what I wrote?




    Motherfucker . what??? lol
    Soooo.. how does it not exist retard? Lmfao. You just agreed on all my examples of systemic racism


    And no I didn't waste my time reading past the first 2 lines of your blatantly bullshit post lol

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    forum clown of the year award goes to onfireee

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingslayer View Post
    Soooo.. how does it not exist retard? Lmfao. You just agreed on all my examples of systemic racism


    And no I didn't waste my time reading past the first 2 lines of your blatantly bullshit post lol
    ??? ok
    Last edited by Computer Loser; 06-18-2020 at 08:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dedxx View Post
    forum clown of the year award goes to onfireee
    thank you *bows*

    just wanna thank mom pops and God

    love yall

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    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    Off the top of my head, blacks in the US make significantly less money on average than whites. This is due to discrimination in hiring for jobs, and being redlined into undesirable living areas.
    Education in neighborhoods depends on the earnings of those who live there, so schools in poor neighborhoods are badly funded. Health professionals are likely to discriminate against black people--they don't take their pain as seriously as they do the pain of white people.
    Education in neighborhoods depends on the earnings of those who live there, so schools in poor neighborhoods are badly funded. Health professionals are likely to discriminate against black people--they don't take their pain as seriously as they do the pain of white people
    IOW, white people on ... our TV/laptop screens.
    Ah. Thank you for your input; but the elephant in the room is how do you know this to be true? We can all make statements like this and say racism this, racism that... but what data are you looking at or how are you measuring this?

    You never hear white people talking about how they've been discriminated against in these sports.
    I don't complain and you never hear about Asian-American problems too. If you never hear of it in the media, does it mean that it doesn't exist?

    Is a football player a human being? Or is a football player an NFL caricature to entertain us? It's just astonishing to me that all Kaepernick did was say that this country doesn't grant his people their full civil rights so he doesn't want to stand for the national anthem though he will *kneel*
    It was a very controversial position... Just look at this thread! lol

    He's one man. Of course there are white cops who have helped and saved black people. A problem being systemic does not mean that some don't act outside of that system.
    How do you measure systemic racism then?

    He does NOT treat Floyd like a human being.
    I think we can all agree Floyd's murder was horrible.

    Anyway, IMO, you need a better argument than saying, hey, this one black guy said X. That's like a person saying "most people believe the Earth is a spherical planet in a solar system" and someone coming in to say, but look there's this man, this flat earther man, and he says otherwise!
    He's a VERY popular/influencial artist who many people would think would support BLM, that's why I brought him up. I think it's important to get less popular opinions that's genuine.

    I need to go revel in my powers now. I have a date with my ego. Bye!
    Thanks for your input
    Last edited by Computer Loser; 06-19-2020 at 01:01 AM.

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    if i was black i'd sound like this dude 100%


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    Systemic racism exists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onfireee View Post
    Ah. Thank you for your input; but the elephant in the room is how do you know this to be true? We can all make statements like this and say racism this, racism that... but what data are you looking at or how are you measuring this?
    NPR made a list: https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswi...-not-a-panacea I'm sure they're not the only ones who made a list. Basically I am not a good person to convince you of anything. If you are interested you can read.

    I don't complain and you never hear about Asian-American problems too. If you never hear of it in the media, does it mean that it doesn't exist?
    Is this even a serious question? The suggestion that whites are discriminated in sports in the US is absurd to me. It's not just the media doesn't talk about it, but neither do white people anywhere online, nor do you hear in hushed tones from white friends "I always wanted to be a basketball star but no one would give me a chance because I'm white" lol. Meanwhile, historically sports DID discriminate against people who aren't white.

    As for Asian Americans, systemic racism impacts them as well, just in different ways.


    How do you measure systemic racism then?
    It can be measured by the disparities between different group economically, in hiring (applicant pool demographics may be more diverse but strangely it's always a white person who is hired), in incarceration rates, in policing (e.g. how black people are disproportionately killed by police), in education disparities, in neighborhood differences (who gets to live in suburbia while who has to live in toxic dumps in dilapidated buildings with lead pipes because their parents or grandparents were redlined into such neighborhoods by race), and in conversations with people of color when they share their experiences with racism. Oh and I forgot voting (I think one of the books on the NPR list talks about the efforts to suppress the black vote).

    He's a VERY popular/influencial artist who many people would think would support BLM, that's why I brought him up. I think it's important to get less popular opinions that's genuine.
    Not all black people support BLM. People have individual views. This is not shocking. But when a majority of black Americans do support it, that says something. And according to this, 57% of black Americans support defunding the police as opposed to only 26% of whites. I think these stats reflect people's experiences. They reflect how the police don't treat white and black people equally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    You are mixing up different groups. Not being very clear about who “they” and “their” are btw. It’s almost like you’re using a non-binary pronoun lol.

    I’m not sure what you’re labeling as sin or atonement here either, relative to what I said.
    Again, missing the point. I am pointing out that you seem to believe that a given "sin" must have a way to "atone" for it in a manner that accords with reason (i.e. not involving slow and torturous suicide that, BTW, wouldn't be enough for even the most rabid of the death cult's faithful) . If you do, than you just plain and simply ain't "woke" enough and are thus just as much a badthinker as myself. Have fun processing that .

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    Again, missing the point. I am pointing out that you seem to believe that a given "sin" must have a way to "atone" for it in a manner that accords with reason (i.e. not involving slow and torturous suicide that, BTW, wouldn't be enough for even the most rabid of the death cult's faithful) . If you do, than you just plain and simply ain't "woke" enough and are thus just as much a badthinker as myself. Have fun processing that .
    I won’t, because I don’t know what you’re referring to as sin here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samson View Post
    If you are interested in what BLM truly stands for, and are willing to look past the emotion-baiting name of the movement: follow the money.

    Millions are being donated to BLM. Look into who, or what, receives the brunt of the money. There you will find the god they worship.
    hm. wise insight. do u have more info on this?

    and most importantly, what is all the money being used for

    Last edited by Computer Loser; 06-20-2020 at 09:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onfireee View Post
    hm. wise insight. do u have more info on this?

    and most importantly, what is all the money being used for
    Probably to screw the BLM-activists, and African Americans at large, over, but not before making them bent over voluntarily to take it up their 'USB ports'.
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Probably to screw the BLM-activists, and African Americans at large, over, but not before making them bent over voluntarily to take it up their 'USB ports'.
    Barbara Reynolds, a veteran of the 1960s civil rights movement and an author, writes that many civil rights activists agree with BLM’s goals but “fundamentally disagree with their approach.” According to Reynolds, BLM uses “confrontational and divisive tactics” marked by boorish rhetoric and profanity, and rejects proven protest methods, which make it “difficult to distinguish legitimate activists from the mob actors who burn and loot.” Reynolds argues that while 1960s-era civil rights activists used “loving” and “nonviolent” means to win allies and mollify enemies, the BLM Movement uses “rage and anger.”

    Reynolds argues that while “the civil rights movement valued all human lives, even those of people who worked against us,” BLM focuses too narrowly on “black pain and suffering,” shouting down “those who dare to utter ‘all lives matter.’” She argued that in order to “win broader appeal [the BLM Movement] must work harder to acknowledge the humanity in the lives of others.”


    -
    Last edited by Computer Loser; 06-20-2020 at 02:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    I want to go back to my post about feelings having nothing to do with racism and I want to clarify because it's bugging me. Yeah obviously there are things unconsciously ingrained in the psyche and a person doesn't need to be explicitly kkk to carry racist preconceptions. But most of the anti blm stuff I'm exposed to by the people in social media circles i follow anyway are like, "you shouldn't have to feel like an inherently bad person for being white," and "you're not personally responsible for racism, you don't have to repent" stuff exacerbated by people taking the knee, lol. And I'm like ???
    Somehow I can see a fact like unarmed black people are more frequently shot by police than other races and not feel personally guilty and responsible? Am I being asked to? Where? Maybe it reflects kindly on some people that they take so much personally, because they feel accountable for so much even though nobody is asking them to do that. Maybe people should stop pointing out black people are killed by police a lot cuz it makes some white people feel attacked, and their feelings matter.
    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    Again, missing the point. I am pointing out that you seem to believe that a given "sin" must have a way to "atone" for it in a manner that accords with reason (i.e. not involving slow and torturous suicide that, BTW, wouldn't be enough for even the most rabid of the death cult's faithful) . If you do, than you just plain and simply ain't "woke" enough and are thus just as much a badthinker as myself. Have fun processing that .

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    Hello. I've never really been offended by racism. I guess that's because I don't feel very white or black while I've always been unjustly privileged. My definitions of races are different from what people are commonly classified as, simply because of how i feel and look and how others look.

    But I do think the police cause more disorder (not that I care about disorder) and violence than they prevent. I enjoy them, but really since they have firearms and tasers, are willing to use force, really don't care to not kill people, and since have so many laws protecting them (including Demonrat ones like labor union/protection and military grade weapons while not allowing civilian non-police non-military to have them) then I don't know why anyone expects them to preserve peace and to protect the innocent. I'm like "well, why the fuck is anyone so surprised when they murder someone innocent if part of their job involves killing people who we aren't 100% sure harmed someone?" They kill people on orders and arrest people for non-violent drug "offenses", so why would they have much respect for innocence and not be expected to kill people who we all know are innocent?

    Let's be realistic here, world.
    Last edited by Disturbed; 05-15-2021 at 10:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Disturbed View Post
    But I do think the police cause more disorder and violence than they prevent. I enjoy them, but really since they have firearms and tasers, are willing to use force, really don't care to not kill people, and since have so many laws protecting them...
    but how do u know this?

    yeah, turning on tv/social media and seeing this makes us feel like this is going down 24/7

    but in the greater context, is it fair to characterize the entire police squad like that? and punish all of them accordingly?

    their job in of itself is one of the craziest/toughest jobs....and yeah, you're gonna get some corrupt/racist/incompetent cops out there nobody is denying that.

    i mean, it certainly "feels like" police are making things worse . but are those feelings in line with reality?

    it doesn't help that social media platforms blow up negative news stories

    changes need to made

    but defund the entire police?

    what happens when u call for help and nobody answers?
    Last edited by Computer Loser; 06-20-2020 at 09:49 PM.

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    after all this is over (if there is an end)

    nobody is gonna be dreaming of being a police officer. they're all gonna say its not worth it.

    and as a result, you're gonna get a lot of people who aren't even qualified taking up the positions.

    and when shit hits the fan...

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    sup fellas, just wanted to share more vids on racist black dudes:



    neo-nazi black rappers:



    racist black women exist too (talks about feminism at 1:40 LMAO) :



    The BEST PART at 2:07 more here
    Last edited by Computer Loser; 06-23-2020 at 02:23 PM.

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    I can't find a link to the video that I can post here but the man who just keeps getting away with it, Sam Hyde, put it best (I removed/omitted his "um's" and "uh's" for brevity's sake):

    "Everything is a front. It's gotten so bad that all you really have to think about is 'What is the most evil thing that's realistically possible' and that's probably what the truth is. People who support Black Lives Matter, people who support the left, a lot of them think they are in possession of radical political opinions. This has been said a thousand times. How radical is your opinion when the cops and the national guard are kneeling and doing the macarena and dancing with protesters and every major corporation has put out a message and donated money to this cause. How radical are your opinions really?"

    "The people who are spray painting cop cars and burning cop cars and smashing windows and whatnot. How radical are your opinions really when these actions are allowed to take place? 'Cause it's not the case that it's a tactical decision. It's not like the cops and the national guard couldn't crack down on this if they wanted to. It's that it's being allowed to happen. And if you think otherwise you're a fool."

    Say what you will about the man, his logic is flawless in this case. Fight me on this one if you disagree. Please. I love roasting commies in the morning .

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    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    Do you have any idea what he means? Because I don’t honestly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Do you have any idea what he means? Because I don’t honestly.
    If you're not rolling on nails to atone for history and crying alone in your room about any privilege you might have, then you are lumped into similarity with him, since those are the only options you can choose from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    If you're not rolling on nails to atone for history and crying alone in your room about any privilege you might have, then you are lumped into similarity with him, since those are the only options you can choose from.
    ... And he’s equating “privilege” with “sin” here by himself then? Lol

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    Now the debate seems to be about statues, which I guess is a slightly more engaging than corporate branding, but. Well. I'm "watching" my employer's internal video about diversity and overheard Breonna Taylor mentioned, so I'll just plop her name here since I don't have anything say about the other stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    If you're not rolling on nails to atone for history and crying alone in your room about any privilege you might have, then you are lumped into similarity with him, since those are the only options you can choose from.
    Feels Centrism Fallacy-ish tbh. If we're talking about values here then we're speaking about which direction in which we're aligning our actions. If conflicts of values reduce to being two-direction, then the difference between pushing the pile softly in one direction and hard in that same direction is negligible, it's all about which net direction in which you're pushing the pile. Little bit or a lot, it makes no difference.

    So it is in fact okay to think in extremes when you're talking about values. A value taken too far or not too far could create an extreme hellhole world or a comfortable temperate one, but if you believe in a value, all you can control is which value you believe in, not whether or not Nature will balance-out your value. If nature balances it out and things become temperate, then that's a sign your value tends toward equilibrium and is a good value, but if circumstance means your value goes unopposed and it creates an extreme, you can't just blame it all on that circumstance, your value must be judged for the reality it creates.

    We don't get a blank-slate test field to rigorously prove which values are best suited to equilibrium. The test of time is all we have, and it is the standard.


    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    ... And he’s equating “privilege” with “sin” here by himself then? Lol
    .....um, yes? In what framework could "privilege" have meaning except as a brand on the sinner?


    If calling someone privileged doesn't imply you think they deserve to have all their stuff stripped away from them or their lesser achievements invalidated, then what could you possibly be implying by highlighting this about them?
    If you don't intend to act upon these labels and actions, then why the haste to call them out and spread the word on them? If you're not planning on acting on this stuff, then what the hell are you doing? What, just to "think about these issues differently" or whatever euphemism, as if that itself isn't a veiled impetus to act upon these different thoughts?


    I don't get it, man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    .....um, yes? In what framework could "privilege" have meaning except as a brand on the sinner?


    If calling someone privileged doesn't imply you think they deserve to have all their stuff stripped away from them or their lesser achievements invalidated, then what could you possibly be implying by highlighting this about them?
    If you don't intend to act upon these labels and actions, then why the haste to call them out and spread the word on them? If you're not planning on acting on this stuff, then what the hell are you doing? What, just to "think about these issues differently" or whatever euphemism, as if that itself isn't a veiled impetus to act upon these different thoughts?


    I don't get it, man.
    I agree only in the sense that privilege is considered something negative and to be self aware of, if one has it.

    I don’t agree that it’s a “sin” that needs to be “atoned” for though, because sin implies falling into some negative behavior or pattern because of your own accord. Privilege is something automatic.

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    @Grendel Also I’m not really sure why you have such a visceral reaction to white Americans in general as a whole being called privileged compared to black Americans as a whole, due to historical issues. You just seem irrationally neurotic about it and act like you’d get targeted personally or something. Have you ever been targeted personally before with people saying that you’re the sole cause of systemic racism in the US and you need to get your house taken away? I have never heard stories of white people getting things “stripped away from them” even due to more aggressive measures like affirmative action.

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    @Grendel I dunno about all that intellectual stuff, maybe you have a valid logical analysis, I just know that personally I think systemic racism exists but I don't feel torn apart with guilt. So it's a possibility if I can do it.

    As for privilege, lol. I grew up in dysfunctional poverty and stuff and I think there are people on both sides who have weird fuckin ideas that either 1 that means I'm not privileged or 2 since I'm white and not a billionaire, I must be stupid. But as far as I understand it, privilege just means I didn't have another fucked up thing to add to the pile of shit. Does eradicating privilege mean I should have had more on the pile? I'm sure there are people who think so. But I think it just means that other people should have less shit (which would remove the slant, and therefore "privilege")

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    I agree only in the sense that privilege is considered something negative and to be self aware of, if one has it.
    Innocence is fleeting. I don't think that can be it.


    I don’t agree that it’s a “sin” that needs to be “atoned” for though, because sin implies falling into some negative behavior or pattern because of your own accord. Privilege is something automatic.
    From a determinist point of view, I see no difference. You had a proclivity towards that sin, it's automatic. What would "original sin" be a better euphemism for than innate flaws? It's all automatic.


    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    @Grendel Also I’m not really sure why you have such a visceral reaction to white Americans in general as a whole being called privileged compared to black Americans as a whole, due to historical issues. You just seem irrationally neurotic about it and act like you’d get targeted personally or something. Have you ever been targeted personally before with people saying that you’re the sole cause of systemic racism in the US and you need to get your house taken away? I have never heard stories of white people getting things “stripped away from them” even due to more aggressive measures like affirmative action.
    Because it's being aggressively used to invalidate the country that has the only culture in the world that would accept me as an evil slaver institution that needs to be violently replaced. In the past you could chalk it up to the predictable ravings to be expected from those living under pressure, but suddenly we're seeing a cataclysmic failure of all our institutions and it looks like the USA might actually die. If the USA dies there's nothing out there for me. I have nothing in common with my genetic "relatives" across the oceans at all and they hate us more than anyone. I could never acclimate to any other way of life but what we have here. I'm scared.

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    I haven't committed any actual brain cells to this and please excuse me for using this place as a safe space to express that I get a feeling of wistful dreaminess when I hear that the country is dying.

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    I do think that the rebranding of aunt Jemima being big news is a sign that we're fine and more or less normal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    Innocence is fleeting. I don't think that can be it.
    Idk what you mean here

    From a determinist point of view, I see no difference. You had a proclivity towards that sin, it's automatic. What would "original sin" be a better euphemism for than innate flaws? It's all automatic.
    Um lol I don’t have that religious belief system then. I don’t believe in innate sins in that way.

    (... irrational rambling ...) I'm scared.
    Ok lol that’s nice. At least you probably aren’t worried about getting shot up by your neighbors or by cops in the ghetto though.
    Last edited by sbbds; 06-23-2020 at 08:19 PM.

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    @Grendel Systemic racism is based upon making limiting, negative assumptions about individuals due to group stereotypes. Making hair-trigger assumptions about white males as individuals for instance would be therefore adding fuel to the fire. Privilege as a group is only a small part of an individual’s “social makeup” or identity or whatever, as ashlesha described before. If you’re indeed not an asshole who abuses privilege then it would indeed be hypocritical for minority groups to persecute you for simply existing.

    ”Being scared” of some unlikely theoretical cultural landslide is not really a rational worry. The riots will subside soon.
    Last edited by sbbds; 06-23-2020 at 08:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    I do think that the rebranding of aunt Jemima being big news is a sign that we're fine and more or less normal.
    Land O' Lakes took the picture of the native American Indian woman off their butter packs. I'm not fine with that. I think she added to the brand.

    They should have polled native Americans to see if that image offended them, if they wanted to be "correct".

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    America isn't dying any time soon lol.. let's be realistic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duschia View Post
    Maybe this should have been done, but regardless: I don't think producing dairy products is a Native American traditional way of living or work. Moreover, the brand was not created by anyone closely related to them. Removal was safe and rather good long-term. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_O...tter_packaging https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/17/b...es-butter.html
    The woman was created by an Ojibwe artist.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...er-stereotype/

    The package looks worse without her.

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    FYI I just watched a fact check on local news about the claim by Trump that he sent the troops to Minneapolis, and they reported that the governor did. This is news to me because I assumed Trump did and didn't give a shit either way. And I guess it doesn't matter if news is fake and Trump is the only valid source of info, but I'm watching CBS MN streaming if you care to look into that.

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    ^ How can you tell if Trump is lying?

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    are you asking me? Is it a joke with the punchline "he's speaking?"

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