Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 41 to 56 of 56

Thread: JK Rowling's Thoughts on Some Trans Activism

  1. #41
    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    TIM
    EII typed by Gulenko
    Posts
    4,671
    Mentioned
    339 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    I didn't think she really needed to because sexual assault and domestic violence against women are so common. I don't know if it would help her case either way since she's saying why she is afraid of men and that's the crux of the criticism against her--treating transgender women as men.
    So common, yet she’s one of the few complaining, while possibly putting trans women in danger of abuse too from going into male bathrooms and triggering psychological turmoil of various groups due to her intolerance.

    If she’s a celebrity and going to bother, she needs to take the extra step. Otherwise it doesn’t garner sympathy when it’s something easy (especially for a professional fantasy fiction writer) to just make up.

  2. #42
    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,778
    Mentioned
    109 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    -The risk of a cis man giving enough shits to pretend to be a trans woman so that he can go in a female bathroom seems ridiculously low.
    A little while ago I was working in one of the buildings of a bank, where all the toilets are now gender neutral. I wish they hadn't done that, there is no need for us men to be confronted with menstrual blood on a regular basis.
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

  3. #43
    Hot Scalding Gayser's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    The evolved form of Warm Soapy Water
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    14,902
    Mentioned
    661 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Let's say there really was a bunch of abusive trans people who perved on innocent angelic straight women in bathrooms. The straight women were completely innocent and didn't deserve to be sexually abused by the trans predator.

    So fucking what. Boo-hoo, that is awful and everything but it still doesn't make discrimination okay. If it was always easy to be nice to minorities- it wouldn't be worth anything anyway. Reminds me of this prick i was working with that was trying to deny trans people rights because he said they were 'too rude.'

    It's a bullshit arguement. It still doesn't make it okay to discrimiinate or deny people rights. Because obviously, not all trans people do that or would condone such horrific acts just like not all gay males cut little boys up and eat their body parts ala Dahmer. Do all straight white males rape like Ted Bundy? Deep down do they all want to do that to co-ed girls no matter how much they try to hide it?It's so ridiculous and bigoted- just cuz there are bad/annoying/rude-whatever people of every group doesn't make it okay to discriminate against that group.

    Some right-wing people like to compare gays with pedophilia. well sure of course, there are some gay men that like to abuse kids. No fucking shit. It still doesn't give ppl the right to discriminate against gays because of it. It is the age-old 'it's okay for me to demonize you because I view you as a demon' fallacy.

    I think deep down JK Rowling views herself as a good person. And we all know the most important moral lesson of them all... when we do or say shitty things in life we don't think we're not righteous, we think we have the right!

    Umbridge discriminated against werewolves for a similiar reason didn't she, shouldn't she realize that, it's her own goddamn story? LOL. Werewolves are thought of as mean and abusive and overly feral and fang-y - just like *gasp* gay and trans people and drag queens have been thought of since the beginning of time itself. Ie. we're mentally ill, we're perverted, we're abusive to kids, we're sexual abusers, it's not safe to be around us, it's OK to treat us like shit because we are shit. All the same excuses.

    I do think she is quite naive tho that's why I semi-defended her. I think interestingly u can be both naive and wealthy/famous and stuff. They aren't mutually exclusive. And it's a big reason why she killed so many less characters in her novel than George RR Martin - Ha!




  4. #44
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Beyond the Pale
    TIM
    Heretic
    Posts
    7,017
    Mentioned
    151 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra
    Part of my ideal future would involve being able to easily alter one's genes. For instance if one wants wings or feathers, they need only come up with a visual design and the genetic science will be so advanced, the design will quickly be translated into a shot (by AI, all automated), so you inject yourself and your transformation is underway. It doesn't change much of who you are just superficial qualities. Of course along with this I would want everyone to be able to do this--no class barriers.


    Even if it were free for everyone there would be class barriers. How many people do you know who can 3D print stuff even though there are free 3D printers everywhere? Most people will be stuck with awful genes while all the Adonises flying around with functional wings will be rich people or at least educated people.

    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    The possibilities are intriguing to me too. Imagine a world where everyone has legendary artistic skills and super genius IQ. I don't mean an IQ of 150; more like an IQ of 20,000,000.
    An IQ of 150 is already basically the same as an IQ of 20,000,000. IQ tests aren't valid. I'm not saying this because I think everyone is actually equal. I'm saying this because I think IQ tests try to treat people like they're more similar than they are. You see, IQ tests assume that the mean, median, and mode intelligence are actually the same. That's ridiculous and un-empirical. It's fully possible for the average person to be way dumber than average if all the smart people are way smarter than average. If 1 in 20 people were 50 feet tall, the average person would be way shorter than average. I have good reason to believe that smart people are not only a few times smarter than average, but astronomically smarter than the average person. How many people leave behind books like the work of Shakespeare? How many people discover theories like Einstein and Galileo? It really is an astronomically small number of people doing important things. Even someone doing standard professional work like being a doctor or lawyer is probably more than 50 times smarter than an "average" person who just sits around watching the Kardashians and eating fried starch. I don't think there's much of a difference between being "average" and being retarded. Average people, peopel with giantism, and people with dwarfism still live in the same physical world, but brilliant people don't live in the same social world. IQ tests are just consolation for average people, like saying that rich people have $150 and normal people have $100. Excuse me while I laugh.

  5. #45
    Moderator xerx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Miniluv
    Posts
    8,044
    Mentioned
    217 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coeruleum Blue View Post
    [/COLOR]An IQ of 150 is already basically the same as an IQ of 20,000,000. IQ tests aren't valid. I'm not saying this because I think everyone is actually equal. I'm saying this because I think IQ tests try to treat people like they're more similar than they are. You see, IQ tests assume that the mean, median, and mode intelligence are actually the same. That's ridiculous and un-empirical. It's fully possible for the average person to be way dumber than average if all the smart people are way smarter than average. If 1 in 20 people were 50 feet tall, the average person would be way shorter than average. I have good reason to believe that smart people are not only a few times smarter than average, but astronomically smarter than the average person. How many people leave behind books like the work of Shakespeare? How many people discover theories like Einstein and Galileo? It really is an astronomically small number of people doing important things. Even someone doing standard professional work like being a doctor or lawyer is probably more than 50 times smarter than an "average" person who just sits around watching the Kardashians and eating fried starch. I don't think there's much of a difference between being "average" and being retarded. Average people, peopel with giantism, and people with dwarfism still live in the same physical world, but brilliant people don't live in the same social world. IQ tests are just consolation for average people, like saying that rich people have $150 and normal people have $100. Excuse me while I laugh.

    I was just using IQ as a stand-in for "intelligence". I know that IQ tests are fraught with problems, and a number of psychologists have acknowledged that the scale breaks down past a certain point (was it 120-130 IQ?? I seriously don't remember).

  6. #46

    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    TIM
    IEI-Fe-DCh so/sx
    Posts
    1,295
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    JK isn't necessarily transphobic just because she has some critical viewpoints on some ideas currently prevalent in a lot of branches of transactivism (not even transsexuals.. It's about the political / legal strategy surrounding it - and even then it cannot be that dogmatic / homogenous as the online community makes it seem?). Some feminists, especially lesbians, do seem to have negative experiences with a certain type of transactivism, because they simply have a different understanding of the issue of sexual identity and their own history of oppression. Whether these views are actually right or not, is something completely else. But you have to have a certain understanding where these issues are coming from, and that certain ideas are simply incompatible. Now you either deal with that ambiguity, and find a way to discuss it or just create a random media outrage where the actual points get completely lost. The ironic thing is that the language used against JK Rowling and her proclaimed transphobia (which really is a stretch, because you can't find a single sentence of 'hate speech' in her exclamations) is often stereotypically misogynistic & a surprisingly violent rhetoric ...
    Last edited by lynn; 09-25-2020 at 03:25 PM.

  7. #47

    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    TIM
    IEI-Fe-DCh so/sx
    Posts
    1,295
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    Let's say there really was a bunch of abusive trans people who perved on innocent angelic straight women in bathrooms. The straight women were completely innocent and didn't deserve to be sexually abused by the trans predator.
    I don't think the issue is that people who are trans use a bathroom which doesn't match with their initial biological sex, because I think almost no one cares about that. It's more the general tendencies of dissolving women only spaces making it more accessible to all kinds of men, (> not transwomen in particular), which is weird when the issue of sexual violence in society isn't completely resolved yet. You could also have shared bathrooms in addition to separate bathrooms to give another option for trans people, but the main line of action seems to be to make all bathrooms unisex, even if some people are not happy with it (and obviously not for transphobic reasons).

  8. #48

    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Posts
    166
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Do not meet your heroes.

  9. #49
    squark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    2,814
    Mentioned
    287 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    It's generally agreed amongst activists and rationalists alike that gender and sex are not the same thing, yes? There are two biological sexes determined genetically, and some very rare genetic anomolies that fall outside of this. Biological sex is determined in the womb and apparent at birth. Nobody questions that reality, yeah?

    Now, onto gender - that appears to be something different from sex, and depending on who you talk to there can be any number of genders and fluidity and so on. If this is the case, and if gender can change at will (be fluid) where one day you feel more masculine, another day more feminine and some other time you feel ambiguous then why would you bother to call that being a woman or being a man at all? Why can't you just say feminine or masculine feeling?

    Consider it this way, some biological women are more or less feminine than other biological women, and yet they are not more or less a woman than the others. Some biological men likewise are more or less masculine than other men, but they are not more of a man or less of a man, yes? You don't become 3/4 woman, 1/4 man because you're considered that much towards the feminine side and that much towards the masculine side. The most masculine of men have some qualities that could be labeled feminine, and even the most feminine of women may have some qualities considered masculine. That's the idea behind the push against prescribed gender roles.

    Some women and some men will not neatly fit into cultural gender roles, and yet they are still women and still men. What makes them a woman, or makes them a man, is not how well they fit a stereotype. You can be a woman, and even feel like a woman without being a girly-girl wearing makeup and pretty dresses, giggling and batting your eyelashes. Dressing or acting feminine isn't what makes you a woman, nor is dressing or acting masculine what makes someone a man. Feminists fought hard to have women of all sorts accepted as women, did they not? Did they not want women accepted into traditionally masculine occupations, and likewise men in traditionally feminine ones? Didn't they fight to have everyone treated equally? The trans argument against JK Rowling, undoes all of that.

    The trans argument erases the ability of both women and men to act outside of narrow stereotypes. It in effect claims that the stereotype is the person. A man acting in a feminine way, dressing in a traditionally feminine way and calling himself "she and her" is according to them, no longer a man, but instead he is a woman. That's ridiculous and it undermines every normal person's ability to act as themselves without the confines of sexual stereotypes overhanging them. It is also doing immense harm to our youth. A tomboyish girl is now pressured into becoming a boy, a quiet shy boy pressured into calling himself a girl, rather than letting them be who they are without the stereotypes. This is demonstrated by the huge number of children who de-transition when they are no longer faced with the peer pressure to conform.

    There is a biological reality that makes someone a woman or a man, and there are degrees to which each individual expresses femininity or masculinity. A man who feels especially feminine is not a woman, and if he feels that his body needs to reflect how he feels, he is at best a mimic, and does not gain the biological reality of becoming a woman. Likewise, a woman does not erase her biological reality by changing her body or taking hormones. Men do not menstuate - JK is correct in that. Women do not have penises. This is biology. This is reality. Do some women feel more masculine or manly -sure they do, and some would like their bodies to reflect that, and would like other people to call them with masculine terms. They are women, who would prefer to be seen as men and live in the world as men. But they're still women. The problem people seem to have is that they want their gender feelings and identity to be recognized as synonymous with biology, and they're not the same. Back to the original point of gender and sex being separate. If they are separate, then one cannot determine the other, correct? That means you can call yourself masculine and identify by a masculine name and be referred to as him, but your biological sex is separate from that and it doesn't change biological reality, and doesn't change your genetics. No matter how much you want it to or how you feel.

  10. #50
    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    TIM
    EII typed by Gulenko
    Posts
    4,671
    Mentioned
    339 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    The trans argument erases the ability of both women and men to act outside of narrow stereotypes. It in effect claims that the stereotype is the person. A man acting in a feminine way, dressing in a traditionally feminine way and calling himself "she and her" is according to them, no longer a man, but instead he is a woman. That's ridiculous and it undermines every normal person's ability to act as themselves without the confines of sexual stereotypes overhanging them. It is also doing immense harm to our youth. A tomboyish girl is now pressured into becoming a boy, a quiet shy boy pressured into calling himself a girl, rather than letting them be who they are without the stereotypes.
    I have an (adult) trans friend who is deeply aware and gets distraught over this contradiction. He/she still just wants to have a more female anatomy in any case. I just wanted to add that, that I think there are probably a fair number of transgender people who do consider this stuff.

  11. #51
    LϺαο Not A Communist Shill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Beijing
    TIM
    TMI
    Posts
    19,136
    Mentioned
    506 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)

    Default

    It's not easy for me to see her as transphobic. I had understood her argument to be simply that sex and gender are two distinct things.

    But it is potentially a nasty business to make a habit of supporting someone who seemingly made a show of using pronouns to describe a person that would only cause them upset. I don't know the full details of the court case but it's not impossible the judge was wrong to rule against a person who was simply stating facts as they saw it.

    It pains me to see a significant proportion of the Twitterati cancelling JKR over this. It seems to me that there should be more room for polite debate and actually working on common areas of agreement, like having more restrooms for transgender people. Raging against someone because they disagree that sex and gender are the same thing just seems utterly nonconstructive. To the vast majority of people, the whole uproar is absolutely ridiculous and goes completely over their heads.

    I did read one comment that said that JKR's remarks sounded like she feared people with penises claiming to be women and entering their restrooms, which would be sad if true.

  12. #52
    Aramas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    2,263
    Mentioned
    127 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Wait a minute. Lesbians are reluctant to suck dick? This could mean that if I ever get that female ESI artist with a GF to switch ball teams, I am going to be so disappointed.


    *EDIT*

    To the OP: This falls under the “other” opinion category.
    You'll be surprised at what some people will do. I once snagged a guy I didn't know had any interest in me. Thought he was straight so much that it never really crossed my mind. Then one night at his place he just whips it out.

  13. #53
    Aramas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    2,263
    Mentioned
    127 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    It's not easy for me to see her as transphobic. I had understood her argument to be simply that sex and gender are two distinct things.

    But it is potentially a nasty business to make a habit of supporting someone who seemingly made a show of using pronouns to describe a person that would only cause them upset. I don't know the full details of the court case but it's not impossible the judge was wrong to rule against a person who was simply stating facts as they saw it.

    It pains me to see a significant proportion of the Twitterati cancelling JKR over this. It seems to me that there should be more room for polite debate and actually working on common areas of agreement, like having more restrooms for transgender people. Raging against someone because they disagree that sex and gender are the same thing just seems utterly nonconstructive. To the vast majority of people, the whole uproar is absolutely ridiculous and goes completely over their heads.

    I did read one comment that said that JKR's remarks sounded like she feared people with penises claiming to be women and entering their restrooms, which would be sad if true.
    I would like to see better hate crimes legislation. That would help some too. I don't mean hate speech. Assault and stuff like that.

  14. #54
    Rusal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    1,064
    Mentioned
    87 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    So basically women must never question gender. And also suffer the consequences of never questioning gender, like domestic abuse. But also, allow trans women into the bathroom because THEY aren’t brave enough to face the consequences of upholding the gender system they need to feel fullfilled. And women should also go around cheerleeding gender as empowerment as if a good portion of it currently wasn’t about males living out the fantasies they get from male-produced porn.
    Sicuramente cercherai il significato di questo.

  15. #55
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    /
    Posts
    7,044
    Mentioned
    177 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    There is a biological reality that makes someone a woman or a man, and there are degrees to which each individual expresses femininity or masculinity. A man who feels especially feminine is not a woman, and if he feels that his body needs to reflect how he feels, he is at best a mimic, and does not gain the biological reality of becoming a woman. Likewise, a woman does not erase her biological reality by changing her body or taking hormones. Men do not menstuate - JK is correct in that. Women do not have penises. This is biology. This is reality. Do some women feel more masculine or manly -sure they do, and some would like their bodies to reflect that, and would like other people to call them with masculine terms. They are women, who would prefer to be seen as men and live in the world as men. But they're still women. The problem people seem to have is that they want their gender feelings and identity to be recognized as synonymous with biology, and they're not the same. Back to the original point of gender and sex being separate. If they are separate, then one cannot determine the other, correct? That means you can call yourself masculine and identify by a masculine name and be referred to as him, but your biological sex is separate from that and it doesn't change biological reality, and doesn't change your genetics. No matter how much you want it to or how you feel.
    I think it goes deeper than this. I suspect it's that the brain has some innate sense of gender, and when its sense doesn't match the biological body, and thus doesn't fit right in a society that defines things this way, then a person just feels they aren't the gender that matches their biological sex, and I suspect it's a very deep feeling that comes from their nature more than from their thoughts/feelings/ideas/etc. I personally suspect that there is something biological that is determining this IOW. It's not on the same plane in a way as how within a single cis-gender sex there is a range of femininity and masculinity.

    Why I think this is because it's a repeating phenomenon throughout time and culture, and my impression of gender from observation and my own experience, is the sense of one's gender goes deep. There is something innate about it.

    Just as sexual orientation isn't a matter of lifestyle, this really isn't a choice either. There are only choices the individual can make about what to do with it/about it, if anything.

  16. #56
    necrosebud's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Posts
    1,179
    Mentioned
    86 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Male, female and transgender brains
    “The male and female brain have structural differences,” he says. Men and women tend to have different volumes in certain areas of the brain.


    “When we look at the transgender brain, we see that the brain resembles the gender that the person identifies as,” Dr. Altinay says. For example, a person who is born with a penis but ends up identifying as a female often actually has some of the structural characteristics of a “female” brain.


    And the brain similarities aren’t only structural.


    “We’re also finding some functional similarities between the transgender brain and its identified gender,” Dr. Altinay says.


    In studies that use MRIs to take images of the brain as people perform tasks, the brain activity of transgender people tends to look like that of the gender they identify with.


    “Research in these areas is extremely limited, and more research needs to be done to find conclusive results,” Dr. Altinay notes. “But we’re already seeing definite trends.”


    Though these differences in brain structure and function are important markers for gender determination, it isn’t always as simple as male or female.


    Some research shows the brains of transgender people are somewhere in between, sharing characteristics of both male and female brains, Dr. Altinay says.


    This is consistent with the growing understanding that gender exists on a spectrum, with people identifying not only as male or female but also as genderqueer, genderfluid or nonbinary. These terms refer to gender identities that incorporate a variety of gender characteristics.


    Understanding gender dysphoria
    In a world that still misunderstands, discriminates against and victimizes transgender people, research demonstrating that gender develops in the brain could have important implications for transgender people, Dr. Altinay says.


    There’s also hope that this research will give us a new understanding of gender dysphoria — the psychological distress that many transgender people experience because their assigned gender doesn’t match the way they see themselves, he says.


    “If we can define gender dysphoria better, we can tailor treatments for it,” he says.


    Those treatments involve taking steps to help a transgender person live as the gender they identify with. This may include medical transition — with hormones or surgery in some cases — as well as with therapy.


    “A lot of transgender people who are diagnosed with bipolar disorder or depression or anxiety are actually suffering from gender dysphoria,” Dr. Altinay says. “The hope is that we’ll be able to properly diagnose these people and treat them appropriately so they don’t develop depression and anxiety.”
    https://health.clevelandclinic.org/r...u-should-know/


Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •