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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpyvic81 View Post
    You changed your typing so I assume you changed the system too for it. I.e. your understanding (that's what I mean by system)

    It's not a riddle, I'm just asking you to define what force is, using your own words. (Think of it in Se context yes)
    My understanding is a collection of different viewpoints and angles, I don't attempt to create a single coherent monolithic system. It's bits and pieces from various sources that make sense to me, there doesn't need to a strict line of logic from one thing to another.

    Force starts, stops and controls the movement of things. It can mold the form or break up its object.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    Yeah, HA and DS are confusing especially if you have learned enough of Socionics since both are now known to you. You'd have to think back how you were before knowing of their existence. In that sense, Ni DS makes more sense as needing it was a very vague feeling but being well-liked and respected (as in Fe HA) was more conscious. My original questionnaire was kind of fucked up by that since I had already learned of Ni and after reading about it I realized it was something I'd been missing all along.
    I see. Yeah I had a very vague feeling like that too. I think seeking Ni is how I got into all this typology stuff too actually. About being liked, I didn't think anyone would have trouble knowing what that phrasing means, lol. Seems like normal everyday stuff. So in that sense it is more conscious to me too. BTW being respected and treated well I link with Ti rather than Fe. To feel okay in a place with people, Fe HA wants others to have explicitly positively attitudes towards them and Fe dual seeking just needs to be well treated.


    Some older Socionics texts seems to mix up the HA and DS at times too. But that Gulenko SLE-Ti text reads to me more like a rough Ne role usage along the lines of conjuring quick and dirty scenarios of "Ok, what things could go wrong here now" instead of some far-reaching future predictions, but I could be wrong about that. That piece doesn't exist anymore in his book as the subtypes are broken down in DCNH instead. It resembles most the SLE-H subtype (IP temperament, boosted Ni+Si) that is the most strategist one and likes playing waiting games.
    That makes sense about the rough Ne role usage, if that's even Ne, bc I thought seeing those basic quick and dirty scenarios didn't really even need Ne, just common sense and previous experience in general. The text otoh worded it like "all the variations of possible consequences" which sounded like some really thorough considering/analysis of consequences to me.

    Lol I'm def not SLE-H btw playing waiting games eh

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    My understanding is a collection of different viewpoints and angles, I don't attempt to create a single coherent monolithic system. It's bits and pieces from various sources that make sense to me, there doesn't need to a strict line of logic from one thing to another.

    Force starts, stops and controls the movement of things. It can mold the form or break up its object.
    Yeah but your understanding shifted by changing some reasoning, I wasn't trying to imply that it's some strict line of logic, just that the reasoning changed. And my point was just that with those new reasonings I'm SLE too.

    Ah as for the answer on the force thing, you used the word "control". I read somewhere on the forum that Se base is not really about control but momentum instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpyvic81 View Post
    Ah as for the answer on the force thing, you used the word "control". I read somewhere on the forum that Se base is not really about control but momentum instead.
    This is getting too theoretical for me to read into singular word choices, but "control" is the one I added as an afterthought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    This is getting too theoretical for me to read into singular word choices, but "control" is the one I added as an afterthought.
    OK. How do you think "Effective in achieving specific goals, but accomplish this by breaking straight though, stopping at nothing, ignoring the outside world and external opinions. Feel good when this is reinforced by their situation" is different from what you said with "single-minded pushing through obstacles to reach a goal there isn't even a thought given to considering the consequences"?

    To me it essentially says Ni HA gets tunnel visioned in a way Se base (with lower Ni) doesn't, supposedly. Like Se bases are willing to just notice a new option for "something better" and jump over to that one. Is what I meant by Se base being more all over the place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpyvic81 View Post
    OK. How do you think "Effective in achieving specific goals, but accomplish this by breaking straight though, stopping at nothing, ignoring the outside world and external opinions. Feel good when this is reinforced by their situation" is different from what you said with "single-minded pushing through obstacles to reach a goal there isn't even a thought given to considering the consequences"?

    To me it essentially says Ni HA gets tunnel visioned in a way Se base doesn't, supposedly.
    Both are the use of Se, the key difference is "feel good when this is reinforced by their situation" -> following the Ni HA and/or being sanctioned by the Ti framework. The "not considering the consequences of the action" implies being ignorant of Ni, and Ti laws being subservient to Se.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    Yesterday I was thinking about how different people might look on typing videos than in actual conversations, so I recorded a short clip of myself talking about some mundane boring shit.
    I can see how robotic I look when I talk to the camera. There is a big difference when talking to a person, especially a Fe lead. Their constantly shifting expressions make me mirror them and become much more animated myself. I don't notice this happening when talking to other unexpressive people. It is comfortable to watch Fe users talking about things on video since they are expressive and engaging even without being experienced presenters.

    And yes, I need a haircut.

    EDIT2: Added the blooper version of the longer one where I accidentally started talking about cm instead of mm (yes, it's mm, I was a bit nervous like in the other videos, lmao):




    EDIT: Added a longer video talking about work that is probably more natural here:





    You look like my pedophile uncle. Beta ST confirmed, nibba!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    Both are the use of Se, the key difference is "feel good when this is reinforced by their situation" -> following the Ni HA and/or being sanctioned by the Ti framework. The "not considering the consequences of the action" implies being ignorant of Ni, and Ti laws being subservient to Se.
    I think goals are really about Ni>Se, as far as my understanding goes. Se makes them reality, sure, but the goal is Ni, inspiring Se with it. Unless we mean some completely immediate physical stuff because then the Ni aspect is negligible. So the idea for me with Ni HA is that the Ni is followed consistently and ignoring others about it when pushing through everything with Se. But yeah it's also kinda ignorant of Ni having simplified it too much so it will ignore some consequences too. Is how I interpret it. I will admit that I don't really pay attention to the justification either, not like it was described for Ni HA, I only fully relate to that pushing through single-mindedly. So I am SLE in your system yeah.

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    @Northstar

    "I can see how robotic I look when I talk to the camera. There is a big difference when talking to a person, especially a Fe lead. Their constantly shifting expressions make me mirror them and become much more animated myself. I don't notice this happening when talking to other unexpressive people. It is comfortable to watch Fe users talking about things on video since they are expressive and engaging even without being experienced presenters."

    That still sounds Fe DS to me

    How do you reconcile it with Fe HA?

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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpyvic81 View Post
    @Northstar

    "I can see how robotic I look when I talk to the camera. There is a big difference when talking to a person, especially a Fe lead. Their constantly shifting expressions make me mirror them and become much more animated myself. I don't notice this happening when talking to other unexpressive people. It is comfortable to watch Fe users talking about things on video since they are expressive and engaging even without being experienced presenters."

    That still sounds Fe DS to me

    How do you reconcile it with Fe HA?
    It sounds like suggestible Fe, could fit both DS or HA. In case of DS it's more unconscious, with HA it's conscious. I do have an easier time describing the need and positive effect of Fe than that of Ni.

    Gulenko's description of LSI and SLE Fe. The function signs are a good clue too. There is good and fitting stuff in the other function descriptions too, worth a read.

    LSI 6. Dual Function -E - Emotional Ethics
    LSI is usually in a gloomy mood and tends to accumulate negative emotions. Allowing them to spill out on someone is a relief. To stay in good physical condition, she needs a frequent change of emotional background. She does not tolerate directed pressure by negative emotions, and it is easier for her to give in than to ignore them. Internally, she is quite touchy and vulnerable, although she does not show this, as she considers this a weakness.

    SLE 4. Triggering Function +E - Emotional Ethics
    When he lashes out, he can show merciless rage. At such moments, he cannot control his anger as he is very passionate. He loves having competitions and noisy company, where he can relax and emotionally release. He likes when he is encouraged and cheered up. His emotional state largely depends on the emotions of others. He likes to listen to music. It balances him and creates mental equilibrium.

    Of these two, the SLE one with +E fits much better. I don't accumulate negative emotions or have a need to spill them on someone later. I just act out at the moment of frustration, not being able to hold it in and accumulate for later. On my own, my emotional state is pretty non-existent (neither negative or positive). I enjoy being in positive and animated company where I don't need to watch out for offending someone. I listen to music almost constantly every day, always at home, when in the car and often at work too.

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    "TIM SLE"
    no

    I perceive Ti as having most emotionally cold sights. You have other.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    "TIM SLE"
    no

    I perceive Ti as having most emotionally cold sights. You have other.
    English, Motherfucker, do you speak it? Other what? Sights?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    English, Motherfucker, do you speak it? Other what? Sights?
    yep. you also seem too emotional for T, with some naiveness in the sight closer to F
    definetely not SLE

    mb EIE? after new videos even EII got higher chance

    more think about J types, as I've said
    and forget all bs evidently incompetent noobs said you here

    your noobish cosplay was funny

    wbr
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    yep. you also seem too emotional for T, with some naiveness in the sight closer to F
    definetely not SLE

    mb EIE? after new videos even EII got higher chance

    more think about J types, as I've said
    and forget all bs evidently incompetent noobs said you here

    your noobish cosplay was funny

    wbr
    You're funny, dude!!!

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    @Northstar
    Mb something adds you emotionality in videos. Non of it is made long enough so you'd felt adopted and relaxed.
    Your shyness and mb high stressful emotional situations can add the distortion.

    I'm sure that it's not SLE. But can't exclude T type still.
    LSI stays among possibilities. Despite the anomalies.

    You may always check your impressions from EIE and IEI in my bloggers examples to understand is SLE or LSI is more possible for you. The good chance you'll understand me, in case having LSI.

    You did not followed to my recommendations for videos.
    Last edited by Sol; 06-07-2020 at 11:23 PM.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Lmfao @Sol. Post a video of yourself and we'll talk. Maybe you should write in your own language and let Google Translate do the job, it would be more comprehensible. Or is that already what you are doing?

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    @Northstar

    As I said before, - subtypes and other heretic baseless nonsense reduces the importance of mismatching with normal theory. You had more reasonable opinion as LSI and then changed to SLE with some "softening" subtype. This softening, as example, could to explain lower level of expected extravertion. The problem - subtypes are nonsense and the other problem - noobs which discuss the types are incompetent same as you to type. Without IR effects with people IRL you'll be fooling yourself easily.

    then...

    It's curious. Was your behavior such inadequate and aggressive before? Do you behave same among normal people IRL? How much is it common for you? Or you've started to think such as appropriate after watching locals on this forum?

    In case of LSI, the problem they have is paranoid speculative thinking by which they explain their aggressive behavior. While the real problem is emotional from their unconcious F. They do not like something and then find paranoid arguments to act aggresively. They look like idiots for others and do not notice this during such acting.

    Having so hating and ego-isolating attitude to people, what predisposes you to be inadequately aggressive with them - will be ruining your relations. Despite your type and other traits you have. Even if you'll establish with someone due to duties stable relations and your such behavior will not break the relations, - you'll be hited back by worse relation to you. If you make bad to other one - it becomes harder for him to have good attitude to you and a relation to you becomes worse - then you'll be feeling worse in relations than could. This worsening will be from direct negative and from reducing of possible positive. It's like karma of relations. You make other one to feel good -> this supports good feeling in you, and the opposite. It's secondary for emotions why you do something and how justiful and reasonable you think your behavior: for pain made to other one you'll pay by your own pain. Also as I've mentioned - due to your unconscious F mind manipulation your behavior is lesser reasonable than you perceive it.
    The most by your negative emotional attitude will be hited relations (and you in them) where emotions are important - friendship and romance relations.

    Think what better fits to your interests. To keep and grow hate and fear emotions to people, which predispose you to find reasons to bark on them. Or to grow accepting and love attitude to people and to life in general, what will open you to get better relations than before.

    Good IR types make easier to accept other one, to love him. They will not make good friendship or love relations themselves. It's you who makes good relations by tuning to interests of other one and living by them alike by your own interests. This needs a positive emotional attitude. This also means fuller acceptance of what other one thinks and feels as your own thoughts and feelings. Needs the attitude to unconditionally accept the other one by your whole soul, to process by more than your logical thinking (to what base T types are predisposed). With more acceptance and lesser borders in its time you'll fix what can be wrong by all of your soul's parts, not only by logics. Too high accent on logics ruins emotional aspect of relations, - while it's optimum state is equal T/F balance. To move closer to it needs efforts of T types (main kind of efforts for base T) to care more about good emotions in relations, to be lesser justiful and reasonable than they are adopted.

    I hope you've got some use from the situation.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    As I said before, - subtypes and other heretic baseless nonsense reduces the importance of mismatching with normal theory. You had more reasonable opinion as LSI and then changed to SLE with some "softening" subtype. This softening, as example, could to explain lower level of expected extravertion. The problem - subtypes are nonsense and the other problem - noobs which discuss the types are incompetent same as you to type. Without IR effects with people IRL you'll be fooling yourself easily.
    Get with the times. Socionics improves as every other theory. If you start claiming something is baseless and heresy with classic Model A being the complete and correct "normal theory", you're simply being dogmatic without any intellectual reasoning. You could have used the exact same arguments for opposing Model A instead of Jungian typology. You could have opposed Jungian typology as dogmatically in the defense of the antique four humors. None of these are scientifically falsifiable theories of hard science. Get off that high horse. Socionics seems to empirically work, so it's entertaining to discuss and can be of some use, but should not be applied religiously, that is not in the domain of science.

    One main drawback of Model A is that while it's good at defining information metabolism (TIM), it's inadequate in separating the energy metabolism (TEM) from it. These are two separate aspects that need to be separated to do better typings. For example, your claims that I have chosen a "softening" subtype is silly. It's not about softening or hardening, it's about TIM and TEM being separate. Many mistypings stem from the confusion of "temperament" with actual information metabolism.

    On the subject of my self-typing, it happens to be that my information metabolism corresponds to an irrational and extratim ST type. However, my energy metabolism corresponds to N in Gulenko's DCNH, which you could simplify as having an "IJ" temperament energetically. You should take a look into it and learn something new, don't be closed-minded and chained to the past. The days of communism are long gone and will not return.
    Sure, LSI typing is not terrible in terms of classic model A, but it still leaves much to be desired that is bettered by usage of Model G. I was pretty suspicious of the DCNH theory and Model G myself, but reading the book it made good sense to me. My IR experience as well as cognitive style pointed to SLE heavily, the only thing that remained unresolved was the energy metabolism, which is properly explained by DCNH.

    To summarize this: I'm not a rational type that judges first, I do perceiving first. But being a terminating subtype means that I act more rationally on the surface while not a rational type per se. This would of course be obvious to people that actually know me, instead of someone on an Internet forum that draws (to himself) iron-clad conclusions on a few minutes worth of video.

    And before you start throwing accusations of "heresy" once again; you aren't even half the socionist Gulenko is, don't delude yourself. You lack credibility, you are just an anonymous pushy stalker that gets blocked and banned habitually. I remember your sad sob story to the moderators not long ago, claiming that you are being censored for your crusade against "heresy". Take a look in the mirror and wonder why you are all alone in your grand struggle and why nobody takes you seriously. I shouldn't need to remind you that you are the laughing stock of this forum. Do something about it, it's your behavior that turns everyone against you.

    then...

    It's curious. Was your behavior such inadequate and aggressive before? Do you behave same among normal people IRL? How much is it common for you? Or you've started to think such as appropriate after watching locals on this forum?

    In case of LSI, the problem they have is paranoid speculative thinking by which they explain their aggressive behavior. While the real problem is emotional from their unconcious F. They do not like something and then find paranoid arguments to act aggresively. They look like idiots for others and do not notice this during such acting.

    Having so hating and ego-isolating attitude to people, what predisposes you to be inadequately aggressive with them - will be ruining your relations. Despite your type and other traits you have. Even if you'll establish with someone due to duties stable relations and your such behavior will not break the relations, - you'll be hited back by worse relation to you. If you make bad to other one - it becomes harder for him to have good attitude to you and a relation to you becomes worse - then you'll be feeling worse in relations than could. This worsening will be from direct negative and from reducing of possible positive. It's like karma of relations. You make other one to feel good -> this supports good feeling in you, and the opposite. It's secondary for emotions why you do something and how justiful and reasonable you think your behavior: for pain made to other one you'll pay by your own pain. Also as I've mentioned - due to your unconscious F mind manipulation your behavior is lesser reasonable than you perceive it.
    The most by your negative emotional attitude will be hited relations (and you in them) where emotions are important - friendship and romance relations.

    Think what better fits to your interests. To keep and grow hate and fear emotions to people, which predispose you to find reasons to bark on them. Or to grow accepting and love attitude to people and to life in general, what will open you to get better relations than before.

    Good IR types make easier to accept other one, to love him. They will not make good friendship or love relations themselves. It's you who makes good relations by tuning to interests of other one and living by them alike by your own interests. This needs a positive emotional attitude. This also means fuller acceptance of what other one thinks and feels as your own thoughts and feelings. Needs the attitude to unconditionally accept the other one by your whole soul, to process by more than your logical thinking (to what base T types are predisposed). With more acceptance and lesser borders in its time you'll fix what can be wrong by all of your soul's parts, not only by logics. Too high accent on logics ruins emotional aspect of relations, - while it's optimum state is equal T/F balance. To move closer to it needs efforts of T types (main kind of efforts for base T) to care more about good emotions in relations, to be lesser justiful and reasonable than they are adopted.

    I hope you've got some use from the situation.
    Yes, I'm blunt, have always been. This should not come as a surprise if you actually knew me. I value neither Fi or Si - harmony is not a goal for me. Banter and shocking statements are fun, call that Beta quadra if you will. However, I know how to deal with people in real life, having fun with them, getting what I want, and being respected. There is plenty evidence of this, which of course is nothing you know of. Yes, it's another thing when things evolve into a close relationship where Fi is more applicable, there I have learned of the need to be with someone that at least values Fe.

    You would do well to take your relationship advice yourself considering your "inadequate" behavior on the forum. Stalking people and battle typing them on very shaky grounds is not going to win you any friends and feed your dual-seeking Fi. Your crusade is just pathetic and will benefit no-one in the end despite your claims to the contrary.

    I assume that your self-typing of LSE might be correct (although one could argue Ne PoLR as well for your dogmatic adherence of a single model that you refuse to update), here's a bit of self-help for you from Gulenko's new book:
    "Frequently review your views on various aspects of life and put aside any outdated and unworkable traditions or habits. Dry, logical facts should not suppress your appreciation of all that is new and unusual. Moderate your conservatism and stubbornness. Try to compare yourself to others more often to cultivate flexibility in your ways of competing.
    You tend to rely on your intuition in your assessments of people, not suspecting that you greatly overestimate this ability in yourself and that you are not immune to arriving at erroneous conclusions and prognoses."

    Incidentally, LSE and SLE, being quasi-identicals, view each other as incompetent. My view of your socionics competence should be abundantly clear by now.

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    @Northstar

    You are on the forum for less than a year. It's normal situation that you mistake in own type.
    If you'll continue to type people IRL and to take into account IR effects then you should understand own type correctly. With more of practice and positive experience you'll be geting higher respect and logical basis to own opinion to be more emotionally restained in typology discussions.

    Better than noobs opinions about your type - think yourself having more knowledge about factors to suppose a type. Even tests should be better to trust than forums noobs. It takes monthes to gather data and to think to understand your type and types of people near you to check fiting to IR theory. VI and nonverbal mb harder in case your LSI, but it's objectively proved important info to take into account and more for people which you know a few.
    Use basic theory. Do not trust to baseless random fantasies about types. Gulenko's subtypes is the example of such.

    may the more of typology reason be with you
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    @Northstar

    You are on the forum for less than a year. It's normal situation that you mistake in own type.
    If you'll continue to type people IRL and to take into account IR effects then you should understand own type correctly. With more of practice and positive experience you'll be geting higher respect and logical basis to own opinion to be more emotionally restained in typology discussions.

    Better than noobs opinions about your type - think yourself having more knowledge about factors to suppose a type. Even tests should be better to trust than forums noobs. It takes monthes to gather data and to think to understand your type and types of people near you to check fiting to IR theory. VI and nonverbal mb harder in case your LSI, but it's objectively proved important info to take into account and more for people which you know a few.
    Use basic theory. Do not trust to baseless random fantasies about types. Gulenko's subtypes is the example of such.

    may the more of typology reason be with you
    You once again fall into the pitfall of your own type (most likely LSE-Normalizing), this also explains your unease with a sharper discussion style:
    "He makes mistakes in assessing people due to poorly accounting for subjective factors. He keeps his heart hidden from others, and often from himself, too, ignoring his own sentimental side. He is inclined to reminisce about the good old days. Although in control of his emotions, he may get into a fuss and unexpectedly break; he can be affected by this for a long time."

    I have been studying typology for years before joining this forum, you know nothing of the efforts I have put in. Don't try to claim authority. Also, I discuss in the style that suits me, feel free to stay out of my thread if it bothers your Te/Fi.

    I don't self-type myself based on anyone's suggestions here. I make my choices based on my own research, as you might have noticed if you had read the thread thoroughly and understood what you read. I have moved well beyond tests at this point, but suffice to say a clear majority of them did in fact indicate SLE, starting from the very first socionics test. My only hangup was the energy metabolism discrepancy, which is best explained by Gulenko DCNH. LSI (and even SLI) were significantly worse approximations and thus discarded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    I thought this was a really good point. Northstar didn’t recite any technical manuals, but for some reason multiple people on here were saying that he was (you too @inaLim).

    Sorry, but get the facts and reality straight before typing somebody with those thoughts.

    I said recall, not recite. And it was a paraphrase, don't take things so literally.

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...=1#post1382102

    I tend to remember a lot of things verbatim
    (photographically if you will), never thought that much about it but it's not uncommon to get incredulous comments about remembering things others have long since forgotten. Back in school I used to win competitions for naming countries, capital cities and chemical elements (not because I cared about winning them, it was just effortless).
    What was said exactly re: the manual is buried somewhere else on the forum or in shout. Its not worth digging it up. The point was long-term memory far beyond the norm (photographic at that), in common with the LSI-Se's in that thread. I've heard LSI & SLI say they have it, and I've seen Te doms fact-dump, but I have not heard of or encountered this in SLE before now. Not in combination with straight posture, order, routine, identification with work, introvert temperament, so on and so on. Apparently Gulenko thinks otherwise in his new book.




    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    Gulenko's description of LSI and SLE Fe. The function signs are a good clue too. There is good and fitting stuff in the other function descriptions too, worth a read.

    LSI 6. Dual Function -E - Emotional Ethics
    LSI is usually in a gloomy mood and tends to accumulate negative emotions. Allowing them to spill out on someone is a relief. To stay in good physical condition, she needs a frequent change of emotional background. She does not tolerate directed pressure by negative emotions, and it is easier for her to give in than to ignore them. Internally, she is quite touchy and vulnerable, although she does not show this, as she considers this a weakness.

    SLE 4. Triggering Function +E - Emotional Ethics
    When he lashes out, he can show merciless rage. At such moments, he cannot control his anger as he is very passionate. He loves having competitions and noisy company, where he can relax and emotionally release. He likes when he is encouraged and cheered up. His emotional state largely depends on the emotions of others. He likes to listen to music. It balances him and creates mental equilibrium.
    These descriptions are new to me. Do you mind posting the changes to SLE Ti / SLE H @Northstar ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by inaLim View Post
    These descriptions are new to me. Do you mind posting the changes to SLE Ti / SLE H @Northstar ?
    I posted the SLE Normalizing earlier in this thread, comparing it to LSI Creative (LSI Normalizing and Harmonizing didn't work at all for me and could be ruled right out - SLE-H doesn't fit me either).
    For the sake of completeness I'll post all the SLE descs here as well as LSI Dominant (it's actually the extroverted -Ti sub, doesn't quite fit me).
    For the purposes of fitting to the old -Ti and -Se subtypes. The -Ti is broken down into Dominant (Extroverted rational, "EJ" subtype of SLE) and Normalizing (Introverted rational, "IJ" subtype of SLE). -Se sub is either Creative ("EP") or Harmonizing ("IP").
    Here the extroverted and introverted "temperaments" refer to energy metabolism, not social intro/extroversion.

    Some of Gulenko's words from the book about sociability and extraversion:
    "I draw the reader's attention to the mistaken interpretation of extraverts as social merrymakers and introverts as gloomy hermits. Such extremes in life are rare, and the task of socio-diagnostics is to determine the version and scale of a person. I recommend in difficult cases to be guided more by the extent to which a person stands out against the background of others. If an individual is particularly unsociable and demonstratively detached, this is convincing evidence of extroversion, since only extraverts are not afraid to openly oppose themselves to the rest. Introverts, on the contrary, seek not to stand out in either direction"

    LSI Dominant:
    Inspector - Demander
    Prototypes: Secretive, non-fussy oligarchs who prefer to distance themselves from publicity; major generals; historically, the creators of centralized states; general architects

    This subtype is quite tough and competent. He is persistent goal achiever and good organizer. Demanding of his subordinates he is incapable of tolerating any slacking or irresponsible behavior. It is virtually impossible to change his mind, let alone deeply held convictions. Although he is inflexible when dealing with people, she fails to consider individual abilities. He won't tolerate objections to his methods of working. If challenged, he will impose his will. He respects formal education and fundamental knowledge and prefers to put knowledge in practice. He knows how to defend business interests in various scenarios, consistently and persistently overcoming obstacles. He is always confident in the validity of his views, given their basis on facts and personal experience. He confronts challenges when they appear. Somewhat suspicious, he often explains his failures as enemies' machinations. A sober realist who knows how to find ways out of difficult situations, he is stoic, overcoming any difficulty without complaining. He hides his feelings, whether it's hunger, fear, or pain. He tries not to encumber others and requests the aid of friends and family only in extreme circumstances. LSI distrusts superficial and frivolous people. Poorly versed in the intricacies of relationships, he prefers to have his partner direct and manage interpersonal matters. He feels entitled to make decisions for two, requiring full devotion from his partner.

    SLE Normalizing:
    Marshall - Withstander
    Prototypes: Athlete, confident economist

    This subtype maintains composure and won't lose equanimity under any circumstance. The inability to prove his strength triggers frustration. He doesn't enjoy leaving his comfort zone to be in front of strangers. He maintains his bravado, hiding his unease when in unfamiliar territory. He is discreet and polite when in public. A rational man, he deals with matters judiciously and impartially. He prefers to talk about what he is competent at. He is confident with only official or trusted sources of information. He is interested in laws and regulations and competently handles documentation. When consulted for advice, he delves into the details of the matter, giving concrete answers. He won't persuade strictly by arguments, but also relies on facts. He hardly finds words in speech; he is not very expressive in conversation. He is easy to talk to, and when talking to strangers, he uses indirect questions to determine where he stands in society along with his connections and opportunities. He seeks firm ground to form relationships on, both when dealing with business and solving collective problems. He likes to do big things, with everything carefully weighed and concrete plans for action in place. This SLE is a sturdy worker who is consistent and practical in business. He provides services, organizes people, and handles obligations and subordinates accordingly. His plans and results do not always reflect each other, as surprised which cannot be taken into account in advance tend to arise. He prides himself on self-reliance and will even undertake temporary employment if necessary. He will not waver under pressure from someone else. He is able to withstand heavy weight loads. He is effective in the sport as a weightlifter and is good at physical activities in general. He requires simple, but high-calorie foods. He is inclined to accumulate wealth, especially in real estate.

    SLE Harmonizing:
    Marshal - Schemer
    Prototypes: Human resources representative, strategic planner, overseer of business mergers

    He is prudent and foreseeing. He can sense threats, but hopes they won't come to fruition. He is quite secretive and dislikes having people look into his personality. He is able to evade intrusive conversations, but will display insolence if necessary. He devotes himself to the right people, showing care by serving them. He will organize avenues for collective work to prove his competence. He considers himself a strategist and works out different solutions, finding ways out of sticky situations. He is able to wait for the right moment, but, the fear of risk-taking can cause him to miss opportunities. While showing kindness to others and being friendly, he requires unanimity and solidarity. At heart, he is quite superstitious and suspicious. Periodically, he finds himself in pessimistic and melancholy states, trying to figure himself out. In moments of despair, compassion, understanding, sympathy, and consolation are what he needs, though he could never pour his heart out to everyone. He tries to maintain the upper hand over his enemy through maneuvers and proactive action, never directly fighting. He deals with the struggles of life through ignoring anything that hampers his efforts. He is afraid of opening up for fear of becoming dependent on people who sympathize with him; however, with a change of environment, his emotions can follow through. He is flexible with matters regarding friends or leisure and entertainment. He requires steady support from close friends and family; he needs a place of solace. He will neither deny himself gourmet food nor pleasure.

    SLE Dominant:
    Marshal - Promoter
    Prototype: Stern commander

    This subtype is a strong-willed, determined, goal-oriented person who is aggressively ambitious and demanding. Being energetic and active, he grows up developing uncommon ways of doing things. He achieves his goals by any means possible and is able to make enormous sacrifices in resources for his cause. He operates both directly and through intermediaries. He knows how to manage people, imposing his will on weaker parties, or offering favorable conditions where possible. He is quite proud, but sensitive, although he tries to conceal this. Considering it a weakness, it is unthinkable for him. In anger, he is insensitive to other people's shortcomings. He is a natural leader, though failing to overcome obstacles lowers his vitality. Configured for achieving realistic targest, as flexible a tactician, he is able to adapt to the process. He never hesitates taking risks, weighing chances of success on the fly. He will not rest till his targets are reached. He dislikes indecisive people who evade bold action. He rejects advice, preferring to make decisions on his own. He can listen while conversing, but has to have the last word. Bureucrats are intolerable to him. When under pressure, his resistance is even stronger.

    SLE Creative:
    Marshal - Attacker
    Prototype: A warrior or brave fighter

    The creative subtype is active and volatile, boldly attacking in combat situations. He has a desire for freedom to fight, passion and victory. Instantly adapting to dynamic circumstances, he is always ready for action. He seeks recognition for his work and is proud of his successes and achievements. He is perceptive, witty and possesses a critical mind. He knows how to give a brief and succinct description of a person, and if necessary, how to entertain strangers. He actively promotes his interests and hectic endeavors. At the same time, he has a good sense of humor. For objectionable people, he may create a hostile environment, but for loved ones, he tries to provide comfort and welfare, showing care and attention. He respects influential and authoritative people. He aims to protect the weak and defenseless. Trust in others can be severed without a regret, as he has no fear of becoming a renegade. In the interest of business, he demonstrates diplomatic skills such as courtesy and helpfulness. In personal relationships, he will have a hard time if forced to adjust to his partner. He is very uncompromising and independent. Self-reliance is of the utmost importance to him. His actions are often unpredictable and dependent on mood swings; it is best to vacate his personal space when he succumbs to rage and anger. His quest often exceed his available options. He responds to present situations promptly, though he is badly prepared for long-term projects and distant prospects. With his willpower, he can suppress surging emotions, though he experiences some difficulties expressing shades of emotion. Monotony quickly tires him, which is why he likes playing psychological games with his partner.

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    @Northstar

    If to suppose your type as T, another possible factor that can make your sight warmer and seems you to be predisposed to false gossips is Enneagram type.
    I do not trust much to E-typology seriously, but it seems to be useful sometimes.

    "TIM SLE (N) 8w9 sx/sp"
    you agree with E9 among your traits. it can be your main E-type too

    Plus comments to your negativism to VI. Which became some harder in recent times to the degree of recommendation to hide this useful data.
    Don't be so touchy.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    @Northstar

    If to suppose your type as T, another possible factor that can make your sight warmer and seems you to be predisposed to false gossips is Enneagram type.
    I do not trust much to E-typology seriously, but it seems to be useful sometimes.

    "TIM SLE (N) 8w9 sx/sp"
    you agree with E9 among your traits. it can be your main E-type too

    Plus comments to your negativism to VI. Which became some harder in recent times to the degree of recommendation to hide this useful data.
    Don't be so touchy.
    Like if you vote for Northstar to PM Sol ballsack pics for VI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    @Northstar

    If to suppose your type as T, another possible factor that can make your sight warmer and seems you to be predisposed to false gossips is Enneagram type.
    I do not trust much to E-typology seriously, but it seems to be useful sometimes.

    "TIM SLE (N) 8w9 sx/sp"
    you agree with E9 among your traits. it can be your main E-type too

    Plus comments to your negativism to VI. Which became some harder in recent times to the degree of recommendation to hide this useful data.
    Don't be so touchy.
    Dude, I already responded in the original thread, no need to come here for the attention. I'm not against VI at all, don't misread.

    Yes, 8w9 is a good e-type for me. There is zero support for flipping it around, like I already explained to the other guy in this thread.

    I'm not the one that is still upset over a movie quote joke.

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    @Northstar

    It's rather common when noobs bark after geting disagreements about their types.
    Irrationally blame methods which lead to other opinions and prise theories and methods which lead to opinion they want today.
    There were many similar ones - you may find their whines on forums. The good is, while having inadequate approach to the typology, the most will never use it seriously to make a significant harm. They notice too much nonsense in experience with their approach and so do not trust to the typology.
    It's the way by which you and thousands other will go. It's seen in how you begin. Either you choose objectivity and the reason or speculativity and hysterics. There are better places to flood, - there all such dudes go one day.

    You recently had one opinion about own type and now you have another one. You are still the same incompetent noob which thinks a lot of bs about types.

    Until you'll positively check your type by IR effects with >10 people IRL - your opinion about own type and about own abbility to understand types of others - mean nothing!

    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Like if you vote for Northstar to PM Sol ballsack pics for VI.
    You are trying to make me jealous by sexual fantasies about that touchy dude.
    Last edited by Sol; 06-09-2020 at 03:32 PM.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    @Northstar

    It's rather common when noobs bark after geting disagreements about their types.
    Irrationally blame methods which lead to other opinions and prise theories and methods which lead to opinion they want today.
    There were many similar ones - you may find their whines on forums. The good is, while having inadequate approach to the typology, the most will never use it seriously to make a significant harm. They notice too much nonsense in experience with their approach and so do not trust to the typology.
    It's the way by which you and thousands other will go. It's seen in how you begin. Either you choose objectivity and the reason or speculativity and hysterics. There are better places to flood, - there all such dudes go one day.

    You recently had one opinion about own type and now you have another one. You are still the same incompetent noob which thinks a lot of bs about types.

    Until you'll positively check your type by IR effects with >10 people IRL - your opinion about own type and about own abbility to understand types of others - mean nothing!
    Yes, irrational blaming of methods is common for you. Anything that has appeared after the dissolution of the Soviet Union is heresy, that has already been noted. No need to repeat it.

    Yeah, I can see you have been here 12 years with nearly 12000 posts. Still you are not taken seriously and your command of English is pathetic. Most people do move on with their lives, instead of hitting their head on a brick wall while collecting blocks and bans.
    Try to apply your socionics knowledge in real life and you might finally find yourself a woman, maybe even a dual. You sure seem to need it.

    I had an opinion, assimilated some new knowledge and improved on said opinion. That's how it works. Funny you should mention IR, because it was among the main motivators for seeing more merit for SLE-N than LSI-C self-typing.

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    Not sure what to make of this. In the old description, I would have fit SLE Ti, H and some of N and D. I'll put this in spoilers so it doesn't derail your thread.

    Re: sociability / introversion - I go by Jung's introvert / extrovert, not social outgoingness. I would be Gulenko's example of "particularly unsociable and demonstratively detached" extrovert.



    I grouped these by what I suspect Gulenko was going for

    SLE Harmonizing:
    Marshal - Schemer - Hmm. not really a schemer. More like overseer

    Prototypes:
    Human resources representative, - This sounds like hell
    strategic planner, - Possibly.
    overseer of business mergers - Yes


    He is prudent and foreseeing. - Yes
    He can sense threats, but hopes they won't come to fruition. - Yes. Who hopes threats come to fruition?
    He is quite secretive and dislikes having people look into his personality. - 100%
    At heart, he is quite superstitious and suspicious. - Suspicious, Yes. Superstitious, No.
    Periodically, he finds himself in pessimistic and melancholy states, trying to figure himself out. - YesHe considers himself a strategist and works out different solutions, finding ways out of sticky situations. Yes
    He is able to evade intrusive conversations, but will display insolence if necessary. - No / Yes. No, I can't evade shit. My Gamma Fi dodge skill is 0. Yes, I definitely will "display insolence."
    He tries to maintain the upper hand over his enemy through maneuvers and proactive action, never directly fighting. - Yes I steer things in my favor, No I don't avoid directly fighting. Depends on the situation, the traits of this hypothetical enemy, the potential consequences, etc. I like direct conflict, but this is 2020, not the wild west.
    These seem to just take IxI Ni, and forget 4D Se and low diplomacy

    He devotes himself to the right people, showing care by serving them. - No. Change that to claim/possess as my own, and showing care by protecting them, scouting / navigating, removing obstacles from the path etc.

    While showing kindness to others and being friendly, he requires unanimity and solidarity. - No this sounds like a recipe for stagnation and groupthink. If I require anything, its informed perspective and challenging. Reality over family, friends, feeling, desire, belief, opinion, prejudice, metrics, etc. However there is a difference between arguing in good faith vs being a useless troll, contrarian by reflex, or ideologue.
    These seem Fe ego

    He will organize avenues for collective work to prove his competence. - No. Not at all interested in proving anything. Could have been accurate if he had said "to achieve the goal."
    This seems like Te valuing or Te insecure

    He is afraid of opening up for fear of becoming dependent on people who sympathize with him; however, with a change of environment, his emotions can follow through. - No. More like see it as pointless since it almost never helps. Or not willing to add the hassle of dealing with a future backstabber / gossip. Or not wanting to give people the wrong idea that by opening up, I want to know them. I am very open with strangers. No idea what "emotions can follow through" means.
    In moments of despair, compassion, understanding, sympathy, and consolation are what he needs, though he could never pour his heart out to everyone. - No. In times of despair, I would need loyalty, hope, inspiration + generous amounts of affection and sex.
    He requires steady support from close friends and family; - No. That sounds annoying as hell.
    (continued from previous sentence) he needs a place of solace. - Yes, but who doesn't need a place of solace (except maybe ESE)?
    These seem like depressed LII

    He will neither deny himself gourmet food nor pleasure. - No. I don't care about food let alone gourmet food. Or comfort. I would not deny myself sex, but can easily go without other kinds of pleasure.

    He is flexible with matters regarding friends or leisure and entertainment. - I am spontaneous in terms of time and place, but not flexible in terms of people or venue. The crowd & entertainment need to be very Se, or I'm gonna bail.
    He is able to wait for the right moment, but, the fear of risk-taking can cause him to miss opportunities. - Yes, able to wait. No, Not afraid of risk. More like, not easily enticed to make a move.
    These seem Alpha or Delta Si


    Hmm. It reads like he's taking Si & Ni, and imagining or deducing what a hypothetical SLE H might look like, more than observing actual SLEs saying this. I'm almost convinced that's what he's doing. Like he was unable to reconcile Se dominant / Si ignoring with a subtype supposed to have boosted Si / Ni, so he projected LII and IxI into the description. There is a victim Ni / 1d Fe neediness / Si indulgence here that is really strange and comes off like a mix-and-match from other types.

    Not to mention the glaring problem here - there is no Se in this profile. Imagine writing an ESI profile with no Fi.


    It almost looks like he wanted to reduce everything to functions and was forced to slice things up in odd ways





    IMO Either
    - Se / Ti should be thought of entirely independent of DCNH
    - or D and C make more sense being associated with Se, and N & H make more sense being associated with Ti
    - or if Ti is Dominant / Normalizing and Se is Creative / Harmonizing, then the Harmonizing profile needs some actual Se in it to reflect that.
    - or "Force" is an inadequate definition for Se [it is]
    - or SLE H is not SLE
    - or the whole thing is wrong

    Here is what I would take from the others personally

    From Dominant
    He grows up developing uncommon ways of doing things.
    He achieves his goals by any means possible and is able to make enormous sacrifices in resources for his cause.
    He operates both directly and through intermediaries.
    When under pressure, his resistance is even stronger.

    From Normalizing
    Maintains composure and won't lose equanimity under any circumstance.
    When consulted for advice, he delves into the details of the matter, giving concrete answers.
    He won't persuade strictly by arguments, but also relies on facts.
    He hardly finds words in speech; he is not very expressive in conversation.
    He will not waver under pressure from someone else.
    (the weightlifting stuff is true but seemed out of place, and i don't see why it would be particularly tied to N)

    From Creative
    He has a desire for freedom to fight, passion and victory.
    Instantly adapting to dynamic circumstances, he is always ready for action.
    For objectionable people, he may create a hostile environment, but for loved ones, he tries to provide comfort and welfare
    He aims to protect the weak and defenseless.
    Trust in others can be severed without a regret
    Monotony quickly tires him, which is why he likes playing psychological games with his partner.



    Things I agree with overall:
    There are very different kinds of SLE, so stereotypes need to be avoided. (this goes for all types)
    Not all SLE are brute-force, impulsive, ignoring consequences, quick to anger, group oriented, etc, etc
    There should be more than one way we expect each type to both "look" and act
    There is probably a pattern to how members of the same type differ, whether you call it subtypes or whatever

    Interesting take. These N and H are so different from D and C that I have to wonder how this fits with IEI duality.

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    Taking that you've changed the opinion about the type without good reasons, that protect it by baseless rejection of typology basics and by trusting to nonsense theories, your inadequate emotional reactions on diagreements - it's interesting what are your emotional reasons to think your type as SLE, at now.
    Someone who has emotional influence on you have said SLE type? And you are glad to agree with much of nonsense following from him/her?
    You have typed some girl (or she thinks so her type) to a type which has good IR with SLE, but bad with LSI? A girl with possible ILI? Or with possible IEI and you just want to look better for her? Or you want to think IR as worse with someone than was before?

    I understand that there are emotional reasons for your actions. You'd did not barked in other case. Also J types do not change opinions easily and based on nothing like you've done. Emotions have broken your reason. Higher emotions which are noticable in your short clips.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by inaLim View Post
    Not sure what to make of this. In the old description, I would have fit SLE Ti, H and some of N and D. I'll put this in spoilers so it doesn't derail your thread.

    Re: sociability / introversion - I go by Jung's introvert / extrovert, not social outgoingness. I would be Gulenko's example of "particularly unsociable and demonstratively detached" extrovert.

    Interesting take. These N and H are so different from D and C that I have to wonder how this fits with IEI duality.

    Hmm. It reads like he's taking Si & Ni, and imagining or deducing what a hypothetical SLE H might look like, more than observing actual SLEs saying this. I'm almost convinced that's what he's doing. Like he was unable to reconcile Se dominant / Si ignoring with a subtype supposed to have boosted Si / Ni, so he projected LII and IxI into the description. There is a victim Ni / 1d Fe neediness / Si indulgence here that is really strange and comes off like a mix-and-match from other types.

    Not to mention the glaring problem here - there is no Se in this profile. Imagine writing an ESI profile with no Fi.


    It almost looks like he wanted to reduce everything to functions and was forced to slice things up in odd ways

    Things I agree with overall:
    There are very different kinds of SLE, so stereotypes need to be avoided. (this goes for all types)
    Not all SLE are brute-force, impulsive, ignoring consequences, quick to anger, group oriented, etc, etc
    There should be more than one way we expect each type to both "look" and act
    There is probably a pattern to how members of the same type differ, whether you call it subtypes or whatever
    Yeah, I pretty much agree with the above. I can find parts of myself in several subtypes as well and the "detached extrovert" is exactly how I have always behaved in groups. Refusing to play along when I feel something makes me look stupid in my own opinion.

    The SLE-H description looked strange to me as well, there really wasn't much Se visible in it. It might still be a possible although very rare variant. I think someone on the forums mentioned statistics about the commonality of different subtypes, with D, C, and H being relatively rare compared to N.

    I did already do the bolding for the SLE-N desc earlier, but here's my take in the spoiler tags for all of the subtypes. All of them contain things that fit, obviously as they are from the same type. But doing a bit of weighting, I find most common ground with the N and D descriptions (most J ones) as a whole which is unsurprising.

    SLE Harmonizing:

    Marshal - Schemer - Not enough to be characterized as such, but I can be proactive in that sense and enjoy it

    Prototypes:
    Human resources representative, - Never, this is a swear word to me, I've had plenty of issues with corporate HR bureucrats
    strategic planner, - Not so much
    overseer of business mergers - No experience of this, but could work


    He is prudent and foreseeing. - I try to, but it's not a consistent strong point
    He can sense threats, but hopes they won't come to fruition. - Yes
    He is quite secretive and dislikes having people look into his personality. - Yes, especially when it's someone looking into it judgementally
    At heart, he is quite superstitious and suspicious. - Not at all superstitious, suspicious yes
    Periodically, he finds himself in pessimistic and melancholy states, trying to figure himself out. - That happens
    He considers himself a strategist and works out different solutions, finding ways out of sticky situations.
    - Yes, I cope with unforeseen sticky situations well
    He is able to evade intrusive conversations, but will display insolence if necessary. - It's harder to not react to something, but reacting insolently is a staple
    He tries to maintain the upper hand over his enemy through maneuvers and proactive action, never directly fighting. - Yes, if solvable by maneuvering. Otherwise direct fighting is definitely an option.
    He devotes himself to the right people, showing care by serving them. - No, I don't devote myself to anyone

    While showing kindness to others and being friendly, he requires unanimity and solidarity. - Not really, but I try to be friendly with varying success, and prefer unanimity
    He will organize avenues for collective work to prove his competence. - No, proving competence is fine but I don't initiate collective work
    He is afraid of opening up for fear of becoming dependent on people who sympathize with him; however, with a change of environment, his emotions can follow through. - This seems like being afraid of being manipulated with Fe. I don't consciously relate to this.
    In moments of despair, compassion, understanding, sympathy, and consolation are what he needs, though he could never pour his heart out to everyone. - Understanding, yes. Judgement will not be accepted. But I wouldn't want to talk to just anyone, it would be someone extremely highly trusted. Reassurance that things will work out in the future with some hopeful scenarios, maybe.
    He requires steady support from close friends and family; - No, I never talk about my problems with anyone
    (continued from previous sentence) he needs a place of solace. - Yes

    He will neither deny himself gourmet food nor pleasure. - No, food is meaningless to me. Sex is extremely important.

    He is flexible with matters regarding friends or leisure and entertainment. - No, especially not about the company
    He is able to wait for the right moment, but, the fear of risk-taking can cause him to miss opportunities. - Yes, I can be patient if the motivation is high enough. Typically not afraid to take risks.


    SLE Normalizing:


    Marshall - Withstander - Could work, I like resisting
    Prototypes: Athlete, confident economist - Economist doesn't sound interesting to me. Athlete, not really, but I enjoy exercise

    This subtype maintains composure and won't lose equanimity under any circumstance. - Not always, but considering the amount of rage that can boil up I think I contain it well and try to do so in public
    The inability to prove his strength triggers frustration. - Yes, I don't like being underestimated
    He doesn't enjoy leaving his comfort zone to be in front of strangers. - Yes, it's not an enjoyment even if I can do it
    He maintains his bravado, hiding his unease when in unfamiliar territory. - Yes, I try not to show any unease
    He is discreet and polite when in public. - I start off polite with strangers, I'm not obnoxious and pushy, only firm. I rarely raise my voice.
    A rational man, he deals with matters judiciously and impartially. - I'm not a model of impartiality
    He prefers to talk about what he is competent at. - Yes
    He is confident with only official or trusted sources of information. - Trusted is the key word. I want to evaluate theories in depth myself before trusting them. It doesn't have to be "official", though.
    He is interested in laws and regulations and competently handles documentation. - No, I'm not interested in laws and regulations. I can competently handle documentation
    When consulted for advice, he delves into the details of the matter, giving concrete answers. - Yes, very true. I get a lot of requests for assistance and take them seriously, providing concrete help.
    He won't persuade strictly by arguments, but also relies on facts. - Yes, only saying something is so is not good enough. Although I try to limit overt bookishness since it is boring
    He hardly finds words in speech; he is not very expressive in conversation. - Yes, this is a problem when talking with people, especially if the conversation has an emotional background. I lose all ability of speech when angry.
    He is easy to talk to, and when talking to strangers, he uses indirect questions to determine where he stands in society along with his connections and opportunities. - Yes, I try to figure out everyone's place in hierarchies. People often initiate polite conversations with me.
    He seeks firm ground to form relationships on, both when dealing with business and solving collective problems. - Yes, this sounds obvious to me.
    He likes to do big things, with everything carefully weighed and concrete plans for action in place. - Yes, very much true. "Big" or epic things is what motivates me the most. I tend to draft concrete plans of action for the short-term.
    This SLE is a sturdy worker who is consistent and practical in business. - Yes, both in my day job and side business
    He provides services, organizes people, and handles obligations and subordinates accordingly. - Yes, my side business is providing services. My day job contains a lot of organizing people and subordinates.
    His plans and results do not always reflect each other, as surprised which cannot be taken into account in advance tend to arise. - Yes, this happens, the more the longer-term planning I attempt. I start to miss many unforeseen issues in planning
    He prides himself on self-reliance and will even undertake temporary employment if necessary. - Yes, I have never been unemployed in my life, despite moving around a lot, even abroad. I have done physical labor while looking for a job suited for my qualifications.
    He will not waver under pressure from someone else. - Yes, pressuring is futile. Fe manipulation will work much better.
    He is able to withstand heavy weight loads. - I found myself to be naturally pretty good at deadlift and squat, so yes
    He is effective in the sport as a weightlifter and is good at physical activities in general. - I'm not a competitive lifter by any means but I do okay. I don't see myself as especially talented otherwise. According to others I do better than average in most physical activities.
    He requires simple, but high-calorie foods. - Heh, yes, these are the foods I prefer.
    He is inclined to accumulate wealth, especially in real estate. - Not especially, but if I would accumulate something it would definitely be real estate instead of stocks. I do own my home and have owned investment property.


    SLE Dominant:


    Marshal - Promoter - In a sense, I do promote my ideas or pet projects
    Prototype: Stern commander - Hah, yes, but these sound "epic" for real life

    This subtype is a strong-willed, determined, goal-oriented person who is aggressively ambitious and demanding. - Aggressively ambitious is a stretch
    Being energetic and active, he grows up developing uncommon ways of doing things. - No, not really in the sense that is probably meant here
    He achieves his goals by any means possible and is able to make enormous sacrifices in resources for his cause. - Yes, the end result matters no matter the sacrifices
    He operates both directly and through intermediaries. - Mostly directly, but I do delegate
    He knows how to manage people, imposing his will on weaker parties, or offering favorable conditions where possible. - Yes, I tend to take control of people who appear to need it
    He is quite proud, but sensitive, although he tries to conceal this. - I'm not fully insensitive but I don't like admitting it
    Considering it a weakness, it is unthinkable for him. - Yes, I consider it a weakness to be too sensitive and to show it
    In anger, he is insensitive to other people's shortcomings. - Probably, but who isn't?
    He is a natural leader, though failing to overcome obstacles lowers his vitality. - Taking informal leadership roles in groups happens often enough
    Configured for achieving realistic targest, as flexible a tactician, he is able to adapt to the process. - Yes, my methods are not inflexible at all, they adapt
    He never hesitates taking risks, weighing chances of success on the fly. - Not really, I try to think of risks in advance
    He will not rest till his targets are reached. - True, I cannot take a break if fully mobilized with a goal in sight
    He dislikes indecisive people who evade bold action. - Yes, this is annoying
    He rejects advice, preferring to make decisions on his own. - Yes, my own advice is always the last advice
    He can listen while conversing, but has to have the last word. - This is also true
    Bureucrats are intolerable to him. - DEFINITELY. There is little I hate more than bureucrats.
    When under pressure, his resistance is even stronger. - Yes, increasing pressure increases resistance, not the other way around



    SLE Creative:

    Marshal - Attacker - Nah, I don't tend to attack people out of the blue.
    Prototype: A warrior or brave fighter - Too epic for reality

    The creative subtype is active and volatile, boldly attacking in combat situations. - No, doesn't sound realistic. What combat?
    He has a desire for freedom to fight, passion and victory. - Yes, all these things sound good but removed from reality
    Instantly adapting to dynamic circumstances, he is always ready for action. - No, I react rather quickly, but this sounds more like constantly looking for it
    He seeks recognition for his work and is proud of his successes and achievements. - Yes, of course I do
    He is perceptive, witty and possesses a critical mind. - Yes, I have been called witty
    He knows how to give a brief and succinct description of a person, - This I can do
    and if necessary, how to entertain strangers. - This I can't
    He actively promotes his interests and hectic endeavors. - Nah, not hectic endeavors, except from the point of view of my introvert friends including two LSI
    At the same time, he has a good sense of humor. - Yes, how could you dispute this?!
    For objectionable people, he may create a hostile environment, but for loved ones, he tries to provide comfort and welfare, showing care and attention. - Yes, true
    He respects influential and authoritative people. - More than others, yes
    He aims to protect the weak and defenseless. - Yes, but not indiscriminately
    Trust in others can be severed without a regret, as he has no fear of becoming a renegade. - Yes
    In the interest of business, he demonstrates diplomatic skills such as courtesy and helpfulness. - If there is something to gain, yes.
    In personal relationships, he will have a hard time if forced to adjust to his partner. - Yes, I can't do this longer term
    He is very uncompromising and independent. - Independent, yes. But I can compromise to a point if I get what I want out of it
    Self-reliance is of the utmost importance to him. - Yes, I don't like asking for help
    His actions are often unpredictable and dependent on mood swings; it is best to vacate his personal space when he succumbs to rage and anger. - Yes, they seem unpredictable to others. I try to limit acts of rage and anger to inanimate objects though
    His quest often exceed his available options. - No, I try to limit myself to realistic options but stretching available resources to the very last
    He responds to present situations promptly, though he is badly prepared for long-term projects and distant prospects. - Pretty much so, long-term projects and distant prospects are difficult to find motivation for
    With his willpower, he can suppress surging emotions, though he experiences some difficulties expressing shades of emotion. - Yes, my emotional expression is not very nuanced
    Monotony quickly tires him, which is why he likes playing psychological games with his partner. - I have done it, but probably not to the extent that is meant here

  31. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    Taking that you've changed the opinion about the type without good reasons, that protect it by baseless rejection of typology basics and by trusting to nonsense theories, your inadequate emotional reactions on diagreements - it's interesting what are your emotional reasons to think your type as SLE, at now.
    Someone who has emotional influence on you have said SLE type? And you are glad to agree with much of nonsense following from him/her?
    You have typed some girl (or she thinks so her type) to a type which has good IR with SLE, but bad with LSI? A girl with possible ILI? Or with possible IEI and you just want to look better for her? Or you want to think IR as worse with someone than was before?

    I understand that there are emotional reasons for your actions. You'd did not barked in other case. Also J types do not change opinions easily and based on nothing like you've done. Emotions have broken your reason. Higher emotions which are noticable in your short clips.
    <_< idk man, he barely moves his eyes and is very monotone. e_e come to think of it thats kinda strange, i mean when I talk my eyes move all over the place like I'm receiving info from the ether or something. Btw whats your type? I see it displayed.. nowhere.
    ILE-Ti - - ELVF - 8w7-4-6 So subtype - MBTI eNTP ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

    “Knowing others is intelligence;
    knowing yourself is true wisdom.
    Mastering others is strength;
    mastering yourself is true power.”
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  32. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    Taking that you've changed the opinion about the type without good reasons, that protect it by baseless rejection of typology basics and by trusting to nonsense theories, your inadequate emotional reactions on diagreements - it's interesting what are your emotional reasons to think your type as SLE, at now.
    Someone who has emotional influence on you have said SLE type? And you are glad to agree with much of nonsense following from him/her?
    You have typed some girl (or she thinks so her type) to a type which has good IR with SLE, but bad with LSI? A girl with possible ILI? Or with possible IEI and you just want to look better for her? Or you want to think IR as worse with someone than was before?

    I understand that there are emotional reasons for your actions. You'd did not barked in other case. Also J types do not change opinions easily and based on nothing like you've done. Emotions have broken your reason. Higher emotions which are noticable in your short clips.
    How boring. My type has nothing to do with my sense of self-worth or self-identification. It's an interesting tool, and I don't have any personal motives for choosing either Beta ST type for myself. It's just the one that fits best to my understanding. SLE was actually the type I started out with when joining this forum, and back then the classical temperament argument was enough for me to consider an IJ type even though the extreme rationality felt wrong. It didn't fit badly, but continuing the analysis I found more support for a P-lead than J-lead type and definitely for H-P cognitive style over C-D cognitive style. All my close real-life intertype relationships over the years (not related to anyone on this forum) fit better with SLE than LSI.
    I haven't ever selected girls based on intertype relations and I don't consider socionics important enough to break off or start relations based on ITR so you can throw that right out the window. I can see you trying to throw my jab back at me though, lol. I pity you if your loneliness is due to not being able to fit anyone to your dualization criteria. But more likely it's due to your lack of social skills.

    I don't consider this barking, I consider it sharp and spirited argument. Where are these higher emotions you can see, would you be able to point at something specifically? Just calling your bs here.

  33. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    You are trying to make me jealous by sexual fantasies about that touchy dude.
    You are, literally, a childish 40+ year old Russian dude trying to joke with a girl in her 20s (who has a boyfriend and is not interested in you in the slightest) about her wanting to make you jealous. Hahahahaha! So funny! You sure are a riot, Sol.

    I just think it would be funny/awesome if you received a bunch of pics of guys nether regions in your inbox as punishment for harassing people all these years, and I think it would be a great, quick solution to all of this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    It sounds like suggestible Fe, could fit both DS or HA.
    As far as I am aware, HA actively tries to "force" moods when interacting with others, and is not this suggestible with mirroring. Your description sounds absolutely suggestive Fe.

    I have never ever seen you setting/forcing emotions like that when around other people (on chat or on here).

    And really that is a major difference between SLE and LSI.


    In case of DS it's more unconscious, with HA it's conscious. I do have an easier time describing the need and positive effect of Fe than that of Ni.

    Gulenko's description of LSI and SLE Fe. The function signs are a good clue too. There is good and fitting stuff in the other function descriptions too, worth a read.

    LSI 6. Dual Function -E - Emotional Ethics
    LSI is usually in a gloomy mood and tends to accumulate negative emotions. Allowing them to spill out on someone is a relief. To stay in good physical condition, she needs a frequent change of emotional background. She does not tolerate directed pressure by negative emotions, and it is easier for her to give in than to ignore them. Internally, she is quite touchy and vulnerable, although she does not show this, as she considers this a weakness.

    SLE 4. Triggering Function +E - Emotional Ethics
    When he lashes out, he can show merciless rage. At such moments, he cannot control his anger as he is very passionate. He loves having competitions and noisy company, where he can relax and emotionally release. He likes when he is encouraged and cheered up. His emotional state largely depends on the emotions of others. He likes to listen to music. It balances him and creates mental equilibrium.

    Of these two, the SLE one with +E fits much better. I don't accumulate negative emotions or have a need to spill them on someone later. I just act out at the moment of frustration, not being able to hold it in and accumulate for later. On my own, my emotional state is pretty non-existent (neither negative or positive). I enjoy being in positive and animated company where I don't need to watch out for offending someone. I listen to music almost constantly every day, always at home, when in the car and often at work too.
    Your description of how you act out anger sounds controlled. Like I said, SLEs create way more chaos when angry/frustrated from some job not working out like the jobs you describe. And the fact you need to act out so strong anger does indicate it's negative emotions being accumulated finding a release at that moment. Like I said, I got more ragey too when I had more negativity in my life. When I acted out (in a manner very similar to yours, same kind of controlling the actions), I had stronger anger when I had more negativity in my life overall, which pretty much proves that the negativity was accumulated in a subconscious way (me not recognising it directly). Or why would it be stronger in those moments....

    Where you say "on my own, my emotional state is pretty non-existent (neither negative or positive)", that is suggestive Fe. Fe HA has more emotions on their own. The part about liking it when you don't have to watch out for offending people, it sounds like you do like to drop the Fi role caution in behaviour. Music.............how is that type related lul.

  35. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpyvic81 View Post
    As far as I am aware, HA actively tries to "force" moods when interacting with others, and is not this suggestible with mirroring. Your description sounds absolutely suggestive Fe.

    I have never ever seen you setting/forcing emotions like that when around other people (on chat or on here).

    And really that is a major difference between SLE and LSI.
    Neither SLE or LSI set emotional moods. Both enjoy them but in different ways. SLE/ILE I know they enjoy it and seek it out (I always accept party invitations, for example). LSI/LII tend to be more insular but if you actually manage to draw them into a party there's a good chance they'll enjoy themselves. This is my experience with LSI and LII friends I have. They always try to decline but if I manage to drag them in with me, they'll enjoy it but need a definite recharge period in between. I don't need it, I enjoy company and happenings most of the time despite not being proactive in making them happen. That still doesn't mean that I play along with all group activities, though.

    Your description of how you act out anger sounds controlled. Like I said, SLEs create way more chaos when angry/frustrated from some job not working out like the jobs you describe. And the fact you need to act out so strong anger does indicate it's negative emotions being accumulated finding a release at that moment. Like I said, I got more ragey too when I had more negativity in my life. When I acted out (in a manner very similar to yours, same kind of controlling the actions), I had stronger anger when I had more negativity in my life overall, which pretty much proves that the negativity was accumulated in a subconscious way (me not recognising it directly). Or why would it be stronger in those moments....

    Where you say "on my own, my emotional state is pretty non-existent (neither negative or positive)", that is suggestive Fe. Fe HA has more emotions on their own. The part about liking it when you don't have to watch out for offending people, it sounds like you do like to drop the Fi role caution in behaviour. Music.............how is that type related lul.
    Nope, I don't accumulate to spill out later, that's something I'm very sure about. When something irritating enough happens I act it out instantly. I can be in a good mood before and after, it's just volatility at the moment, the moods aren't persistent. Again, I see a clear difference to the LII friend I have, he seems to stay in gloomy resentful moods much longer. I don't hold on to feelings like that unless it's something really major, otherwise they dissipate quickly.

    The emotional state being stable most of the time is a result of emotions typically dissipating quickly, both positive and negative. Fi role is something I totally do not identify with at all. Ne role on the other hand, yes. I get well along with Ne users (in real life, not just here on the forum but that is true as well), but not with Fi users.
    Music may or may not play a role but listening to it a lot might have links to constructivism and/or extroversion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    Neither SLE or LSI set emotional moods. Both enjoy them but in different ways. SLE/ILE I know they enjoy it and seek it out (I always accept party invitations, for example). LSI/LII tend to be more insular but if you actually manage to draw them into a party there's a good chance they'll enjoy themselves. This is my experience with LSI and LII friends I have. They always try to decline but if I manage to drag them in with me, they'll enjoy it but need a definite recharge period in between. I don't need it, I enjoy company and happenings most of the time despite not being proactive in making them happen. That still doesn't mean that I play along with all group activities, though.
    SLE does set them, they are just not good at it and will fuck up easily, overstepping some boundaries (hence the stereotypical Fi PoLR traits). I accept party invitations too lol....imo it just means you are not INxx. Would you say your LSI-Se friend needs a lot of recharging? I also don't need a lot btw.


    Nope, I don't accumulate to spill out later, that's something I'm very sure about. When something irritating enough happens I act it out instantly. I can be in a good mood before and after, it's just volatility at the moment, the moods aren't persistent. Again, I see a clear difference to the LII friend I have, he seems to stay in gloomy resentful moods much longer. I don't hold on to feelings like that unless it's something really major, otherwise they dissipate quickly.

    The emotional state being stable most of the time is a result of emotions typically dissipating quickly, both positive and negative.
    Your changeability with emotions is Fe suggestive. Fe HA holds on to them for a while. Infact this also makes you an Emotivist over Constructivist (entering and exiting emotional states fast/easily)

    And yeah, I'm like you with how I act out instantly with irritation but still clearly the case is that with more personal situations I am not aware of the Ethics of the situation so negativity accumulates there and that is what gets acted out in an impersonal enough situation later. (I.e. frustration/irritation from a job not going well is impersonal enough)

    And I see that with you too, the same lack of awareness of emotional aspects in emotionally personal situations. You will detach and strictly keep to logic / Ti instead.


    Fi role is something I totally do not identify with at all. Ne role on the other hand, yes. I get well along with Ne users (in real life, not just here on the forum but that is true as well), but not with Fi users.
    Music may or may not play a role but listening to it a lot might have links to constructivism and/or extroversion.
    Do you get along well with IEE gfs too now

    Ive seen several supposedly introverted and emotivist people being very into music ....

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    I edited my last post @Northstar

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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpyvic81 View Post
    SLE does set them, they are just not good at it and will fuck up easily, overstepping some boundaries (hence the stereotypical Fi PoLR traits). I accept party invitations too lol....imo it just means you are not INxx. Would you say your LSI-Se friend needs a lot of recharging? I also don't need a lot btw.




    Your changeability with emotions is Fe suggestive. Fe HA holds on to them for a while. Infact this also makes you an Emotivist over Constructivist (entering and exiting emotional states fast/easily)

    And yeah, I'm like you with how I act out instantly with irritation but still clearly the case is that with more personal situations I am not aware of the Ethics of the situation so negativity accumulates there and that is what gets acted out in an impersonal enough situation later. (I.e. frustration/irritation from a job not going well is impersonal enough)

    And I see that with you too, the same lack of awareness of emotional aspects in emotionally personal situations. You will detach and strictly keep to logic / Ti instead.




    Do you get along well with IEE gfs too now

    Ive seen several supposedly introverted and emotivist people being very into music ....
    LSI-N was very reluctant. The one that's probably LSI-C (inert/contact is redundant in DCNH), not so much. It would've been a pretty good typing for me too but not as good. It doesn't fit my cog style, ITR or just plain stacking as well despite being behaviorally similar. I think I've already explained most of my thoughts around why that is.

    I wouldn't even say I enter emotional "states", they're just quick reactions to something. That's why the baseline state is stable. Like I said, I don't do accumulation. If something pisses me off, I'll take action about it immediately instead of bottling it up. I let people know immediately if something frustrates me. Actually I don't detach and keep to strict Ti logic. Both my T-lead LII and LSE coworkers think I'm pretty volatile. The LII tends to say things like "You always get so quickly angry" or "I can tell immediately it's your back in this photo, you always look so angry".

    No, the IEE relationship was Super-ego. That's one major clue which I noticed already in my very first thread here. Ne is okay, Fi isn't. The Strat description of SLE/IEE super-ego relations was an uncanny match to my real-life experience of several years of living with an IEE. The LSI/IEE conflict relation, not at all.

    About the music thing, I use it as a constant backdrop when at home, driving or working. It wasn't about enjoying music in general, everyone does obviously.

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    One of reasons why you made too short videos against recommendations [what predisposed you to be there lesser natural and hence to have more distorted nonverbal] can be your shyness, common for introverts.

    P.S. when I don't visit hairdresser for more than a month my hairs start to look close to what you have there You may do alike by own hair clipper.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  40. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    One of reasons why you made too short videos against recommendations [what predisposed you to be there lesser natural and hence to have more distorted nonverbal] can be your shyness, common for introverts.

    P.S. when I don't visit hairdresser for more than a month my hairs start to look close to what you have there You may do alike by own hair clipper.
    My videos didn't originally even have the point of being typing material if you remember the original theme. I might make one discussing with someone at some point just for fun. I wouldn't call myself all that shy, I've posted three videos and a bunch of pictures here already. Where are yours? You keep sidestepping me telling you to post some about yourself. Are you LSE or LSI now?

    Yeah, I always cut my hair myself with a trimmer but got a bit lazy and let it grow too much. It's cut down to normal length now, just took this pic to illustrate.
    clippedhair.jpg

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