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    What is beauty? What is love?

    (I think to define those, you have to first state whether it's an attempt on 'objective' definition or a subjective definition. In my case, I always do both and my subjective definition ends up being the 'objective' one. Both definitions are going to be constructive anyway, so it's all about which one is closer to the external state of the world and which is more useful overall - I always try to make this stuff as accurate and useful as possible.)

    Beauty - as trying to define it - is one of many 'attitudes' a person can held towards an object. Nature 'created' it as an opposite to ugliness - and what ugliness is for? To signal 'stay away, this is bad for you short or long term'. Thus, we have some genetically encoded values of 'what is beautiful' - what may yield something for us and if we interact with it, we are further reinforced by 'this is a pleasure' signs. As of human body, it's beauty usually signals 'I am nice, good genes, fertile'. Beauty of course is partially to an eye of beholder - and can be influenced by societal standards for what is beauty (nevertheless, it usually continues with positive signaling role). Symmetry and harmonious coloring seem to be universally held as beautiful.

    Personally, I clearly perceive what is beautiful or not (to me). It usually indicated some sort of sensory pleasure. I may not be always able to word it.

    Love - by definition - is the feeling you can held towards something, which is positive and daring. It usually is perceived from two sides: love as sexual love, attraction - or love as a very strong affect, but not necessarily sexual (see: platonic love). I see all sides of love (more than those two, for sure) as valid. It feels easier to explain than beauty - love makes you stay with something, as it gave you pleasure (in some sort of way, no necessary sensual or society-conforming). Shades of it depend on a person and particular case.

    I've felt love a quite few of times, and it was often associated with a feeling known as kama muta (in my case). http://kamamutalab.org/about/ The selfless kindness and mercy.




    What are your most important values?

    I'm not sure. But I value honesty, compassion (kindness, understanding) and helpfulness in a match. Integrity, that stuff. Truth, whatever it is - or at least, the most probable one. Lack of bias.

    I think I may value staying true to myself, overall. If I accept a view for once, I usually held it. For example, I'm quite liberal socially - in fact, very liberal.




    Do you have any sort of spiritual/religious beliefs, and why do you hold (or don't) those beliefs in the first place?

    I don't have any sort of spiritual/religious beliefs (or they are in a vegetative state). I may ponder them very occasionally, such as 'is there some sort of big cosmic energy' or other stuff like that, and maybe there is, but I'm far away from any organized religion. I seem to have problem with granting more than is visible - I skeptically refer to any kind of magic. For me, the clearest and the simplest explanation, the better. Don't assign any intentions if they don't have to be assigned. It's okay if there is something more, but let's move on.




    Opinion on war and militaries? What is power to you?

    Hopefully, there is no need for them in the future. I don't want to judge people from the past though. War is suffering, and I don't want suffering.

    Power is the ability to control and to have something under your control. I like to be in control, but I wouldn't say I'm power-hungry or something - this is a necessity to me. I have an unconscious need of 'I have to'. Maybe I should work on that further.




    What have you had long conversations about? What are your interests? Why?

    I'm that weird person who just becomes activated by any topic they have knowledge about and starts talking about it. This can be really any topic - I hardly find something uninteresting, unless it's some kind of woo and to discuss it I would have to agree with quite retarded assumptions. I usually don't think about it too much - why.

    Because of it, I find it hard to define my interests, but I guess I'm interested in knowledge (that I can use in some way or another). I collect it. I was called a walking encyclopedia more than once (yet, I don't think I know everything - there is much more to know and you shouldn't judge too fast without knowledge). I can easily see when someone lacks knowledge or tries to push their agenda - they get the foundations wrong.




    Interested in health/medicine as a conversation topic? Are you focused on your body?

    Moderate, depends on who is talking and about what. If it's old ladies with their 'common knowledge' and 'I'm in pain and going to a doctor', then probably not. I'm interested in keeping my body healthy and strong, as well up to my standards of what I like and find beautiful. I keep up with research, especially new one. I sometimes fail with going through with everything I want, but I have been depressed since, well, a long time.




    What do you think of daily chores?

    I do them when I have to, but if I don't have to - well, bye. I like to be in a pleasurable and clean environment. Chores are very repetitive over time, and although seeing your room clean is satisfying, I would preferable have a maid or a robot in the future. Also, I feel I have better things to do - heck, even chilling feels better. If I could buy a time-freeze button, so they would be done once and for good...

    But I like cooking, or, more: tasting new food, different combinations, food from different sources.




    Books or films you liked? Recently read/watched or otherwise. Examples welcome.

    Recently, I've watched Parasite, which I really liked (despite me not being really close to - as a person - to Kims). I read mainly non-fiction and I can't think of any interesting examples read lately. I'm watching Rick and Morty - I find it okay, but not really top-notch. Last episode was really cool, though (S04E08, The Vat of Acid I think).




    Where do you feel: at one with the environment/a sense of belonging?

    Usually, I seem to either feel at one (effortless meditation without an object seems to be my most primeval, default mode - I only sense things without thinking anything) with any kind of environment I'm in, or either very detached from it (derealization). I seem to like nature, but from the other side it can be rather nasty and I have a fear of some bugs (like wasps - which made my younger me very meh about it and stay-at-home).

    When I will build own house finally, I think this is where I will belong. There is a vision - or a blurry image - of it.




    What have people seen as your weaknesses? What do you dislike about yourself?

    I don't ask them about it. It seems some seem to see me as: too rigid; boring and unfunny; cannot really let it go and have fun; rude, not nice, blunt; a know-it-all; too pushy if decided on something; not acknowledging others feelings.

    I find it hard to accept when someone holds really hurtful views (like homophobia), and I don't really hide I don't like it/them. I find it hard to accept when someone holds woo views too, but these people tend to be less aggressive about them (usually). Maybe it would be pragmatically more beneficial, but I can't let it go. I dislike when someone tries to promote some views as holy truth, which is just some personal bullshit ideology they like.

    I can be weird when I'm in new social situations. I feel better one-on-one, group dynamics are weird. In groups (in real life), I'm usually observing with mild engagement, or - in much rarer cases - I'm pushy and too much to handle. I have less problems when using Internet - at least with 'let it go'.

    I'm actually not always sure about what I like. This is not something very conscious to me, I've just learned /what I like/. I certainly have issues I don't have strong attitude about.

    I seem to make ethical blunders sometimes. I used to be offensive on accident, but this is something I worked through.




    What have people seen as your strengths? What do you like about yourself?

    I tend to double check and I've learned to just let go of my mistakes. I'm not ashamed of them. I'm not ashamed of experimenting or uncertainty either. I've learned to be more forgiving and if someone is genuinely sorry, I let it go. But don't cross me too many times, again and again - my patients has limits.

    People seem to think I'm really intelligent and wise (this illusion about the second thing usually goes away when they know me better). I seem to have a certain authority on my faculty, for example. I wasn't looking for it, but I enjoy it, I guess. People come to me with their problems and I help them - I'm not sure why I'm doing this, I'm just like that. This let me build some relationships and friendships.

    I can be pretty funny and even charming with people whom I know better and/or I am interested in. I was told that I'm very original and 'they don't know a person like me' quite a few times - from people that get to know me better.

    My best friend thinks I'm pretty brave and it's amazing I 'can ask out people' for example, but dunno.

    I was told my suggestions, ideas and criticism are usually quite right and spot on, people seem to like them. I'm good at bringing things to close to their ideal state. I seem to be able to choose right solutions to pragmatic problems, those that yield in the future.




    In what areas of your life would you like help?

    I would like to find someone I can share my troubles with, that's all I think. I can do on my own pretty well. Someone to cheer me up a little? To give me motivation, to help me realize my ideas? To create comfort and love with? I need someone reliable and kind. Someone who doesn't play 'a mask', whatever that is. Or at least - someone with a bunch of acceptable masks.




    Ever feel stuck in a rut? If yes, describe the causes and your reaction to it.

    I think yes. It's rather hard to bring me to do things I don't like - that means I don't want to do, because I see no use. I will procrastinate them out of spite - yes, I know, this is childish. I'm working on that.




    What qualities do you most like and dislike in other people? What types do you get along with?

    I like people who are genuinely compassionate and kind. People I can bond with and have a stable relationship with, with fundamentals on love, support and mutual help.

    I dislike dramas for no purpose, ideological motivations, reckless behavior (yet, I guess you can find me behaving stupidly from time to time - by no means I'm a saint here).

    I dislike when some try to manipulate my emotions - to cause me to feel them, to see my reaction, to know them. Don't instill any affect on me by force, please. Surprisingly, I can feel a variety of things and even be emotive at times (some closer people see me as nice and emotive actually, when closer!), but gtfo if I'm 'supposed to share'. Don't. I dislike it. Don't create artificial closeness with me.

    I like quirky people with some interests; I like those who are more positive than me and can bring life to my life.

    I can't accept someone who is doing stupid things without foresight. I find it very hard to accept someone who is squandering money for something I perceive as dull - it makes me die inside a little. Even when it's not my money and choice.




    How do you feel about romance/sex? What qualities do you want in a partner?

    Truth is, I'm not sure. When I was younger, I've felt that I may be asexual, but this is clearly not a case. I rarely feel physical attraction, but I know when I feel it. My buddie laughs at me that I seem to feel attracted to anyone who is willing to listen to me talking about something for a prolonged time... I'm not sure what is good for me, but I'm willing to take it as it is, whether the truth is going to be pleasant or not. For some time, I used to ask people out even when I was unsure of them or whether I like them, it was a good idea (as I was doing something at least), but I'm only more bitter after that.

    I usually pretty caring. I think that I've already dropped hints about what I want in a partner: trust, bond, kindness. Could be physical love as well - I like sensory pleasures, I think.

    There is a part of me curious about BDSM, but this seems to be too much ado and risk, and some practices are not of a good taste, to state it.




    If you were to raise a child, what would be your main concerns, what measures would you take, and why?

    First, I would have to read some literature on in, to check my sources, to ask others with experience (whom I find informative). I don't plan to have children right now, so my knowledge is rather scarce. I would try to instill some moral values on them: values of kindness and life itself, and a degree of acceptance to variance of people. I would led them by example with myself being pretty liberal. I would teach them how to respect money and how to manage the basics. Otherwise, I would be a lenient parent - I don't mind many behaviors and choices, unless it really crosses the line.

    My children are not me - if they somehow made bad choices as responsible adults, I would have little problem to cut them off (with repeated offences, I guess, as I'm usually rather forgiving). But I don't really have many 'unforgivable offences' in my playbook.




    A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward and outward reaction?

    I have few stern beliefs, but it's hard to move them. If they make a rational argument and I feel I was in the wrong - it's okay. If they try to instill some bullshit on me, I will usually spend no time with pointing out 'this is bullshit'. I don't make friends with people who hold views I perceive as deal-breaking.

    An exception comes to my mind - I have one friend into things like crystal healing (and they spend money on it even when they don't have money for more necessary things). I've pointed out how silly is to believe that, and our friendship almost fell apart, as they 'have a right to have they own beliefs'. It's a hard case, I'm trying to work this out without hurting them, but this may be impossible, I will eventually erupt with "okay this is bullshit" and this friendship may be done in that case. It's a shame, they are nice and I can share with them.




    Describe your relationship to society. How do you see people as a whole? What do you consider a prevalent social problem? Name one.

    I don't see society as a one whole. I think you can find common mechanisms, but there is much of variance left, cultural one for example. When it comes to my country for example, I really try /not to/ judge, but I can't help seeing many of people as reckless, seeing only short-term consequences of benefits they get from our government (thus, in a way, cash-grabbing), unnecessarily conservative and prejudiced, moved by propaganda and emotions. It disgusts me. But, then, it's not their fault they are like that - some things are inborn, some things are societal, some things are just because they don't know any other way. From other side, to not take free money... To not take advantage of such situation requires some spine.

    Occasions come with time, maybe an occasion for a change will come. Of course, nothing guarantees it being positive, but, you can try.




    How do you choose your friends and how do you behave around them?

    I'm not sure. I was trying out with many people (as I wished for a bond) and with some it just clicked. I tend to behave much more freely around them, joking and engaging. I like to be by them, a good company can be a plus if it's good and not too much - even though I've grown to realize my assumptions about relationship can be idealistic and in fact I need some space for myself.

    I was experimenting with relationships (friendly ones), many people turned out to be two-faced and simply too much drama for anything, guiding me away from productivity as well.




    How do you behave around strangers?

    People usually see me as rather secretive it seems. I'm 'reserved and exact'. I'm usually polite, nothing too much, nothing too few. I can be talkative when a 'right' topic comes up, even restless and energetic when mobilized.





    Background: I'm in my early twenties, male
    Last edited by Duschia; 05-23-2020 at 03:47 PM. Reason: formatting

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    Mind I'm pretty angry with life right now, and there is a lot of irritability in me, for partly unknown (and partly known to me) reasons. Depression sucks, and I'm desperately longing for some bond and yes, maybe even someone's attention, as shameful as it may be and as cringe as I may see it when feeling even a bit better.

    That is, I will call my friends just after finishing this post, I think I may need their help and support (and I need to chill out, or I will become further unstable). Thanks for any typings in advance.

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    Last edited by Sol; 05-27-2020 at 03:56 PM.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    @Duschia You seem likable regardless of type. I still feel like you are a young edition of @Adam Strange

    LSE still works

    Good Te, blah blah, also very, very Fi valuing and very Delta Fi, all that emphasis on selfless kindness and stuff


    ***

    BTW this was interesting "Power is the ability to control and to have something under your control. I like to be in control, but I wouldn't say I'm power-hungry or something - this is a necessity to me. I have an unconscious need of 'I have to'. Maybe I should work on that further."

    What is this "unconscious need of 'I have to'", got a specific example?

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    LSE seems right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpyvic81 View Post

    BTW this was interesting "Power is the ability to control and to have something under your control. I like to be in control, but I wouldn't say I'm power-hungry or something - this is a necessity to me. I have an unconscious need of 'I have to'. Maybe I should work on that further."

    What is this "unconscious need of 'I have to'", got a specific example?
    It was to note more of a general tendency, which I just have and I honestly don't know why. You can have two (at least two) situations here:
    a) someone tries to control me directly
    b) there is unknown/random stuff that may happen and 'destroy' my plans

    Solutions to a and b:
    a) I tend to assume control, preferably to 'break free' - I wouldn't say I rebel against higher forces all the time, but if I feel unnecessarily controlled this is going to happen, to at least gain back some ability to work for myself and keep my space as a separate entity (I think I'm also more elastic on this one after I became older and ofc specific details depend on situation)
    b) I tend to resolve it by getting it known, so I can somehow predict it and prepare for that eventuality

    That is, I also think I can enjoy some 'randomness' and I've learned to accept that some things are uncontrollable, but this is not natural or easy for me. You have to think in probabilities anyway, even if it's hard for my head sometimes - and life can be a mess.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Why would you doubt in being LSE?
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post


    Why would you doubt in being LSE?
    I'm not sure why would I, but I'm not even doubting.

    I think I may be trying to live beside my type/socionics, as I don't necessarily agree with many assumptions/stereotypes about my 'most possible' type.

    For example, I like hugging, I like being nice (even maybe too enthusiastic sometimes - when I really like someone?) or how I'm not really conservative (in usual terms) at all, instead very liberal. I'm also willing to say 'yes, I was wrong' or 'I don't know, I'm not sure'.

    I guess I would like to emphasize my individuality - me as an individual, or something. Also I like exploration like that, it's interesting to think about possibilities and directions (which can change, or result in a change). Thank you for your support


    Also someone asked me 'where is my questionnaire' and I've realized I haven't done this one; the other popular one feels too nosy to me, too much private information and maybe even too much things I may not be ready to face, as I didn't work them through
    Last edited by Duschia; 05-27-2020 at 07:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duschia View Post
    I'm not sure why would I, but I'm not even doubting.

    I think I may be trying to live beside my type/socionics, as I don't necessarily agree with many assumptions/stereotypes about my 'most possible' type.

    For example, I like hugging, I like being nice (even maybe too enthusiastic sometimes - when I really like someone?) or how I'm not really conservative (in usual terms) at all, instead very liberal. I'm also willing to say 'yes, I was wrong' or 'I don't know, I'm not sure'.

    I guess I would like to emphasize my individuality - me as an individual, or something. Also I like exploration like that, it's interesting to think about possibilities and directions (which can change, or result in a change). Thanks you for your support


    Also someone asked me 'where is my questionnaire' and I've realized I haven't done this one; the other popular one feels too nosy to me, too much private information and maybe even too much things I may not be ready to face, as I didn't work them through

    You seem like a cool dude. You remind me a bit of my brother. He is either SLI or LSE.... he's very factual and logical but loves to be physically and verbally affectionate and abuses the heart emoji in text. It sounds like you prefer "physical touch" as your primary love language just like him.
    Last edited by JustWandering; 05-26-2020 at 09:54 PM.
    “There are things known and there are things unknown, and in between are the doors of perception.”
    Aldous Huxley

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    Ned Stark is that you? Considering a lot of your thought processes are very close to mine with some key differences that point towards Te base imo you are LSE.

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    Bump (nothing new added)

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    You come across as more diplomatic than my mental image of LSE. as suggestive function makes more sense (SLI)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ergot View Post
    You come across as more diplomatic than my mental image of LSE. as suggestive function makes more sense (SLI)
    I suspect I'm not a 'dominant' type either way (whatever my type is). And comparing to my SLI-Si friend, I'm definitely less 'diplomatic' and I can see differences between myself and him (or SLIs in general?) - I'm definitely more pushy and ambitious. Perhaps angry. I would buy ILI for myself easier.
    I
    I also wasn't born diplomatic, this is more like a learned skill (if I'm diplomatic at all). Spending time around people helps... Or is this role ?

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    Fun game: I'm checking all those descriptions one by one and seeing how many points I 'score'. I think I will (maybe, if I will still want to do so) post a video nevertheless, but probably next month if anything. I'm surely going to run a statistic check on what were my choices with different descriptions, so I can get a fuller picture and picture my most probable type(s).

    Starting from: Socionics Type Descriptions by Aushra, compiled by Weisband.

    Spoiler is a small sample (just ILE) on how I did it: things actually agree with (bolded), things I don't agree with (italic) and not-sures (underlined).


    1. Two birds in the bush [he often chooses this option instead of one in his hand]. He is a genius at finding new opportunities and possibilities. What he has completed always seems to him less important compared to the dawning perspectives which are irresistible an inexhaustible. Scientists of this type tend to procrastinate with the publishing of the results of their research, thinking that the greatest discoveries are still ahead. He lives for the future; meanwhile being not acknowledged does not intimidate him. He chooses to do what is interesting rather than what is lucrative. [0/2/4 or 0/6]

    2. Recharge. He needs to feel emotional enthusiasm and ardor, and thus needs permanent sensory and emotional "recharge". He is unable to supply it himself, so he depends a lot on his surroundings. If nobody feeds him with impressions and positive emotions (nobody can do it as well as his dual The Mediator) – he mopes about life, loses ability to work and taste for life. To compensate for the absence of his dual he begins to mix with a lot of friends, becomes active in social projects, starts up clubs or scientific schools (Sigmund Freud, a representative of this type, invented the concept of sublimation to explain this fact) [0/2/2 or 0/4]


    3. A leader. He is a good organizer because he remarks potential possibilities in people and situations. If he is to wield power, he needs justification for it: why he must take that position, e.g. a critical situation that nobody else can deal with, assignment from the top. When he takes power, he begins to analyze the needs of his subordinates, tries to provide them with everything and only then makes the necessary demands on them. [1/1/2 or 1/3]


    4. A servant. His dependence on the emotional ambiance of others produces an effect of extreme compliance in minor and routine things. Having freed himself thus from having to pay attention to such unpleasant things, he switches for his favorite activity – figuring out the essence of things and phenomena. He does not differentiate people into “us” and “them”, tries to be equally polite to everybody. [0/2/2 or 0/4]


    5. Undifferentiated feeling. He believes that all people in their essence are kind and love one another. Therefore he looks funny enough when the situation requires initiative in expressing feelings – they are not his line at all. [0/1/2 or 0/3]


    6. Danger – critical situations pep him up as much as good others’ emotions. The more emotions and panic there is around him, the more active and assertive he becomes. It is impossible to intimidate him – an attempt to do so produces just the opposite outcome. He willingly takes responsibility in critical situations; however, in peaceful and quiet conditions he starts to doubt his right to occupy a responsible position, gets frustrated by the competition and leaves. [3/1/2 or 3/3]


    7. Liberty of communication. He likes familiarity in communication, however, does not show initiative in this, but awaits it from others. [1/0/2 or 1/2]


    Scores (fitting/not-fitting/intermediate):

    Fitting Non-fitting Intermediate
    ILE 16.68% 30% 53.33%
    SEI 0% 56% 44%
    ESE 24.39% 29.27% 46.34%
    LII 32.26% 35.48% 32.26%
    SLE 27.59% 24.14% 48.28%
    IEI 2.94% 52.94% 44.12%
    EIE 25.64% 43.59% 30.77%
    LSI 18.42% 34.21% 47.37%
    SEE 7.41% 55.56% 37.04%
    ILI 59.26% 22.22% 18.52%
    LIE 46.43% 14.29% 39.29%
    ESI 29.41% 38.24% 32.35%
    IEE 33.33% 33.33% 33.33%
    SLI 48.49% 21.21% 30.30%
    LSE 50% 13.89% 38.89%
    EII 20.69% 34.48% 44.83%


    Highest fitting: ILI > LSE > SLI > LIE
    Lowest fitting: SEI > IEI > SEE > ILE

    Highest non-fitting: SEI > SEE > IEI > EIE
    Lowest non-fitting: LSE > LIE > SLI > ILI

    Quadras, sorted by highest fitting (by average ranks as distributions are rather skewed): delta (11.75) > gamma (10.50) > beta (6) > alpha (5.75)
    Quadras, sorted by highest non-fitting: beta (10.25) > alpha (10) > gamma (8.25) > delta (5.5)
    Last edited by Duschia; 06-14-2020 at 04:42 AM. Reason: correcting ILE numbers

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    As I've realized this takes too much of time and all for no purpose, I'm going to analyze only Te-egos (more than 40% fitting) from now on. Starting with Filatova and 'Understanding the people around you: an introduction to socionics'.

    So, no 'one-by-one', as Aushra pretty much settled some things for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duschia View Post
    I'm going to analyze only Te-egos (more than 40% fitting) from now on.
    "Beauty - as trying to define it - is one of many 'attitudes' a person can held towards an object.

    A personal attitude is Ti approach. If you have T type, then Ti are possible too.

    "Nature 'created' it as an opposite to ugliness - and what ugliness is for?"

    Here you are giving not direct definition, but you input additional term and link with it. Links - is Ti region. Te think more directly.

    To understand your valued functions with good assurance is possibly only by IR effects. Directly it's easier to mistake than with dichotomies.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  17. #17

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    I've finished Filatova and ratings, but I've decided to:
    1) continue analysis myself;
    2) maybe present results after finishing research and improving methodology (coming up with a method to untie the knot);
    3) close this thread and only inquire others if I'm interested in their opinion (because find them knowledgeable and reliable, with expertise and somewhat 'proven' methods).

    Overall, it may be a sign of me moving away from typologies as a whole, but who knows.

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