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Thread: Have you observed that Te/Fi valuing types have less self-control over their emotions?

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    Default Have you observed that Te/Fi valuing types have less self-control over their emotions?

    I have; Te/Fi valuing types seem more instinctual. ILE-Ti and EIE seem to have perfect or almost perfect control over their emotions (except for one ILE-Ti I knew but he was having issues with medication which set him off and he had Asperger's Syndrome like I've been diagnosed with). LSI-Ti don't seem to have great control over their emotions, but LSI-Se do (but not to the level ILE-Ti and EIE do.)

    Speech of gamma and delta types is also moderately to quite a bit more emotional, more uncontrolled than speech from alpha and beta types.

    Why is it that Te/Fi valuing types have lower emotional self-control (but probably greater control over sensation/excitement-seeking) than Fe/Ti valuing types? I was thinking it's simply that being Te-valuing causes more internal strain and nervousness that just has to come spilling out, but then there are LSI-Ti with terrible strain (Tim Kaine and I may be two of them) and LII also sometimes have terrible strain and are outwardly quite hard, not gentle at all.

    Te/Fi valuing types (except for SEE and ILI and maybe EII and maybe ESI-Se and maybe LIE-Ni) tend to be more conservative in what they do, in their views, and they also tend to see more risks even if they do really want to innovate which prevents them doing much exceptional, yet at the same time they (all of them, including SEE and ILI) have way lower emotional self-control/are visibly angered/laugh/cry quite a bit more easily (ILE and EIE think before they speak, have more control over the expressions of their anger, are less sentimental, are more in control of their sentimentality, and are more open-minded, less bothered by things like nudity and things that say Kimberly Kane would do and they enjoy dramatic behavior more than LIE and IEE, but the LIE and IEE have less emotional self-control and are more instinctual, they just explode, their words just come out without as much conscious forethought and are more likely, from my observations, to have Bipolar disorder and be rapists or hit their girlfriends, wives than EIE and ILE). Again, some EII, ILI, and SEE are also pretty open-minded (and even some LIE and ESI-Se are pretty open-minded and do beautiful things) and can think pretty clearly so it certainly doesn't apply all too much to all Gammas and Deltas, but I think it's the Fi subtype of EII that is more open-minded about Beta humor and art/other people being rude/insensitivity/"dirty stuff".

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    No. I’ve seen EIE explode/have uncontrolled emotions and have known more EIE with bipolar disorder than either LIE or IEE. One such EIE is probably in jail for being caught in a sting. Also saying EII is more open-minded and prone to dirty humor than IEE is weird to me and not really what I’ve seen, though I think both types are quite capable of having more “beta humor”.

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    Emotions is F.

    Inappropriate is more often met in weak regions and not valued.
    If you have Fe type, then in your peception accented on this region, people having Fi value behave lesser inappropriate in Fe (and generally F as you are accented on Fe), what mb interpreted sometimes as the lack of self-control. The abbility of conscious selfcontrol is good in strong regions only. About strong nonvalued regions it's more correctly to say about intentional lack of care.
    Fe valued types in the perception of Fi types have similar problems.

    Also P types are more impulsive what mb seemed as lesser of general selfcontrol.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    I've seen types across the board have emotional outbursts. My ILE dad and LSE ex both had an illusion of peace going on but were very prone to outbursts. I know two IEEs and two SEEs also both prone to outbursts. But also the most level headed people I know are Fi leads. Might be a coincidence of a maturity thing.

    I have an LSI-Se boyfriend and he is very reactive, as am I. If I'm angry at someone, the emotion is internally overwhelming and uncontrollable but the way I direct it at the person is controllable. I can't choose to not react to them but I can choose how to strike. I rarely "lose my temper" and can look cool on the outside but will aim to destroy someone with a comeback. Then if I'm upset I move to victim mentality and making the other person feel bad. When I was arguing with my partner about something and I wasn't convincing him logically I stopped trying to hold back emotions and started explaining the history of why the issue was so important to me, why I was so upset, why I could be excused for acting out, why I didn't like him challenging me on it etc until he felt bad and backed off.

    SO if you count low key manipulation as being in control of emotions then sure. But I don't because I can never choose to not let them get the better of me. I just learned how to wield being an uncontrollable emotional mess to my advantage.
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    Many Te/Fi types suffer from chronic emotional constipation. I know that holding in might be pleasant but it generates uncontrollable shitstorm somewhere else. Sometimes being spontaneous when people are walking on their toes is irritating.

    LOL few days ago Fi people were very shocked when I really drilled down a point with pressure which was about logical consistency in their arguments.

    Also trolling lol. Reactions. More reactions. Yes, those troll blogs and stuff were made in purpose to generate negative reactions as well as positive. Mission success. Whole spectrum of stuff served in condensed form.
    Last edited by COVID 007; 05-20-2020 at 02:04 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrrrmaid View Post
    I have an LSI-Se boyfriend and he is very reactive, as am I. If I'm angry at someone, the emotion is internally overwhelming and uncontrollable but the way I direct it at the person is controllable.
    I recognize this, despite the illusion of outward calmness I can lose my temper easily but the expression of it is somehow controllable. Often when getting angry I need to take it out physically on something. The controllable part is deliberately destroying something that is of relative low value / replaceable. I've punched a keyboard to bits, thrown more than one phone on the floor to make it explode (that was expensive and dumb), thrown a bunch of tools/car parts at the garage wall (but never damaging the car itself) etc. Frustration and anger leads into a buildup of violent physical energy that needs to be released somehow. I never choose to release it at innocent people, though.

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    Interesting. I have known some EIE who seemed to have had bipolar disorder, but EIE aren't heavy believers in diagnoses and they may be more likely to hide it for their self-image. It does seem like LSI of both subtypes can be quite reactive, and I know of several who have been diagnosed with bipolar disorder (as I have been whatever my type, but it's due to the medicines that weren't really necessary). I think a lot of my own aggression was due to dyspraxia and sensitivity to loud noises and of course negative emotions. I'm super clumsy (my movements are impulsive) and I've read that people with dyspraxia can have severe emotional problems (also, something that's intriguing is that despite LSI-Se and IEE being conflictors, both types seem more prone to dyspraxia than average, I'm not sure why, but it's also correlated with autism spectrum disorders and LSI have autism at a higher rate while many other LSI also pretty decent social skills; I was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome, but it didn't fit perfectly.)

    It did seem like there were no Gamma quadra and Delta quadra students in my emotionally disturbed classes and I saw a lot of people in them (those classes had, all sorts of fighting, disruption, truancy, provoking, emotional expression, people drawing/doing artwork during class, farting, loudly complaining about farting, need for and adherence to systems, etc., etc... they were quite Beta quadra environments; there was one ILE-Ti, but he was head strong about not having to be in special ed classes so he got out by the time he finished middle school.. people have always thought I was crazy and I wasn't always treated like the smart person I wanted to be treated as; the IEE I know are actually quite normal and traditional and if there was someone they really couldn't get along with they'd just leave the group and associate with people who shared their views, more likely to do that than EIE who were quite firmly in the place they were in and wouldn't leave; it was usually EIE and SLE doing crazy, unusual, disruptive things, and expressing their anger but not that craziness is bad, I was relatively well-behaved in school, especially in late middle school and high school, even better than my friends who were never enrolled in emotionally disturbed classes.) There is some continuity from receiving special ed services from K-12 to having mental health services as an adult, so that has to do with why there are predominantly Beta quadra members in both (IEE, even if Bipolar, usually get out pretty quickly, they move on to other interests or they don't do anything risky.)

    Still, I enjoyed the Beta quadra environments, whether emotionally disturbed classes or in psychiatric wards and really I still enjoy going to most (but not all) psychiatric wards for a while; the staff in both were mostly Beta quadra members with a few Alpha and Gamma subtyped towards Beta (the only Delta people I know of who were employed at psychiatric wards were just two LSE and they didn't seem to understand anything) which meant that they were more likely to be physically beautiful than average (just like police officers are mostly Beta quadra members and more attractive than the average person). I don't think Delta NFs would generally enjoy working as psychiatric nurses and the rudeness from the patients and they're not supposed to be good with authoritarian systems plus they have too much emotional empathy anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    I recognize this, despite the illusion of outward calmness I can lose my temper easily but the expression of it is somehow controllable. Often when getting angry I need to take it out physically on something. The controllable part is deliberately destroying something that is of relative low value / replaceable. I've punched a keyboard to bits, thrown more than one phone on the floor to make it explode (that was expensive and dumb), thrown a bunch of tools/car parts at the garage wall (but never damaging the car itself) etc. Frustration and anger leads into a buildup of violent physical energy that needs to be released somehow. I never choose to release it at innocent people, though.
    Lol that's the exact same way for me. Incl the restriction at the end (people undeserving of it)

    I did figure out that it seems like purely physical energy only from a conscious pov. It is just that in a way, but logically, there must be an emotional energy too that needs to be "converted" and released that way. But that part (Fe) is not conscious at all by default. (Anger and frustration all have an emotion component too even if I don't perceive that normally)

    It basically works like, the emotional system is responsible for a lot of motivation for action among other things, and one function of emotional expression (of several functions) is to release energy that was already prepared by the system but rationally it was decided it's not to be used for the goal. I figure "feelers" are way better at doing that in a directly emotional way tho'.

    Wikisocion on Fe does say this: "What people usually call emotions or a person's display of emotions is neither more nor less than a form of letting out this internal excitation directly, almost without expending it in muscle activity. A cheerful person who laughs releases an emotional charge and inner excitation through certain movements of the muscles of the face and body. This might be a means for reducing overexcitement, when inner exertion cannot be used for the activity it was intended for."

    And then for example I read that crying can help release chemicals that would otherwise be toxic, and they are there in the first place because you were already prepared for action by the emotional system.

    I did discover myself that sometimes doing an expression emotionally - facial expression and/or body language - can release more energy more efficiently than physical destruction. Like, possible to avoid causing too much destruction that way. But this is hard for me to do, especially deliberately; it only works if I get somehow "inspired" to do movements that are actually emotional expressions in those "inspired" moments. It is really rare for me to be like that deliberately.

    And yeah, by default I just do what you do and it is easier. It is also just easier on my brain to not be too emotional directly. With emotion built up for too long or from a bad enough experience and it getting too strong as a result, releasing that as a direct emotional expression can have a really extreme effect on me, I'm much better off if I can "convert" it to/keep it as controlled (even if also impulsive) physical energy/activity, but that has its limits for those very bad experiences is what I found. Luckily that's really rare that something could pass the limits for physical expression/aggression.
    Last edited by grumpyvic81; 05-20-2020 at 09:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrrrmaid View Post
    I've seen types across the board have emotional outbursts. My ILE dad and LSE ex both had an illusion of peace going on but were very prone to outbursts. I know two IEEs and two SEEs also both prone to outbursts. But also the most level headed people I know are Fi leads. Might be a coincidence of a maturity thing.

    I have an LSI-Se boyfriend and he is very reactive, as am I. If I'm angry at someone, the emotion is internally overwhelming and uncontrollable but the way I direct it at the person is controllable. I can't choose to not react to them but I can choose how to strike. I rarely "lose my temper" and can look cool on the outside but will aim to destroy someone with a comeback. Then if I'm upset I move to victim mentality and making the other person feel bad. When I was arguing with my partner about something and I wasn't convincing him logically I stopped trying to hold back emotions and started explaining the history of why the issue was so important to me, why I was so upset, why I could be excused for acting out, why I didn't like him challenging me on it etc until he felt bad and backed off.

    SO if you count low key manipulation as being in control of emotions then sure. But I don't because I can never choose to not let them get the better of me. I just learned how to wield being an uncontrollable emotional mess to my advantage.
    Lol. I've already figured you EIEs out. I would not back off and "excuse" you unless my emotions and my "history" are also taken into account just as much as yours. Then it is a fair and balanced way of communication rather than manipulative shit. : p

    Ofc, LSI will be at a disadvantage at figuring out their own emotions and conveying them for this kind of exchange. Like, it's gonna take time for the LSI to do so. Except if the emotions are provoked for release (see below)

    I was also gonna say: how about you maybe just deal with being challenged directly. But then ofc the EIE is gonna be at a disadvantage there. : p

    Ofc the devil's in the details, so it depends on what he tried to challenge you about. Was it actually fair and reasonable or not.

    But I'm not a believer whatsoever in LSI spoiling EIE.

    Anyway, in my own experiences, it works actually well if we (EIE & me, as an LSI) both turn the disagreement into a little drama and release emotions, convey a few infos that way too, and then able to discuss and resolve stuff rationally too. And no hard feelings that way, lol. Or self-serving manipulation either.

    Yeah I'm a "very reactive" LSI-Se too I guess lol but yeah that's worked for me

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    Ti/Fe: I am trying to seem nice and affable when really I am internally cold. When Ti/Fe loses control of their emotions I find it is easier to "not take it seriously" (i.e., they are emotional, but it is more a product of the situation rather than how they really feel)

    Fi/Te: I am trying to seem rational and detached when really I am an emotional mess. When Fi/Te loses control of their emotions it is a downward spiral. Rationality goes out the window and you can just tell there is no way of rationalizing them out of it.

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    Fe valuers value controlling emotions to express them in a socially recognizable manner I believe.

    It’s not that they are less emotional, but they are more attuned to social markers and oriented towards catering towards emotional expression that uses them. They are probably more thorough at seeming more rational and cold/calculating than Fi valuers are because of this. But as others have said, some EIEs and such (any Fe valuing type really) can have explosions that are a result of a lack of emotional awareness too, and Fi valuers can stay calm and cool also.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Disturbed View Post
    Interesting. I have known some EIE who seemed to have had bipolar disorder, but EIE aren't heavy believers in diagnoses and they may be more likely to hide it for their self-image. It does seem like LSI of both subtypes can be quite reactive, and I know of several who have been diagnosed with bipolar disorder (as I have been whatever my type, but it's due to the medicines that weren't really necessary). I think a lot of my own aggression was due to dyspraxia and sensitivity to loud noises and of course negative emotions. I'm super clumsy (my movements are impulsive) and I've read that people with dyspraxia can have severe emotional problems (also, something that's intriguing is that despite LSI-Se and IEE being conflictors, both types seem more prone to dyspraxia than average, I'm not sure why, but it's also correlated with autism spectrum disorders and LSI have autism at a higher rate while many other LSI also pretty decent social skills; I was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome, but it didn't fit perfectly.)

    It did seem like there were no Gamma quadra and Delta quadra students in my emotionally disturbed classes and I saw a lot of people in them (those classes had, all sorts of fighting, disruption, truancy, provoking, emotional expression, people drawing/doing artwork during class, farting, loudly complaining about farting, need for and adherence to systems, etc., etc... they were quite Beta quadra environments; there was one ILE-Ti, but he was head strong about not having to be in special ed classes so he got out by the time he finished middle school.. people have always thought I was crazy and I wasn't always treated like the smart person I wanted to be treated as; the IEE I know are actually quite normal and traditional and if there was someone they really couldn't get along with they'd just leave the group and associate with people who shared their views, more likely to do that than EIE who were quite firmly in the place they were in and wouldn't leave; it was usually EIE and SLE doing crazy, unusual, disruptive things, and expressing their anger but not that craziness is bad, I was relatively well-behaved in school, especially in late middle school and high school, even better than my friends who were never enrolled in emotionally disturbed classes.) There is some continuity from receiving special ed services from K-12 to having mental health services as an adult, so that has to do with why there are predominantly Beta quadra members in both (IEE, even if Bipolar, usually get out pretty quickly, they move on to other interests or they don't do anything risky.)

    Still, I enjoyed the Beta quadra environments, whether emotionally disturbed classes or in psychiatric wards and really I still enjoy going to most (but not all) psychiatric wards for a while; the staff in both were mostly Beta quadra members with a few Alpha and Gamma subtyped towards Beta (the only Delta people I know of who were employed at psychiatric wards were just two LSE and they didn't seem to understand anything) which meant that they were more likely to be physically beautiful than average (just like police officers are mostly Beta quadra members and more attractive than the average person). I don't think Delta NFs would generally enjoy working as psychiatric nurses and the rudeness from the patients and they're not supposed to be good with authoritarian systems plus they have too much emotional empathy anyway.
    The psychotic population is one of my most favorite populations to work with lol, maybe not as much in a hospital though, more out in the community/higher functioning. I did do some work in the psych ward and the nurses seemed to have it a lot better than the lowly behavioral health techs (i.e.- me) honestly. I think a lot of higher functioning psychotic patients are really interesting and I have a lot of compassion and care for them.

    You are right on EIE often not being fond of diagnoses and even therapeutic work in at least a couple cases I've seen. Not traditional therapeutic work anyway! I agree on the highlighted statements regarding IEE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpyvic81 View Post
    Lol. I've already figured you EIEs out. I would not back off and "excuse" you unless my emotions and my "history" are also taken into account just as much as yours. Then it is a fair and balanced way of communication rather than manipulative shit. : p

    Ofc, LSI will be at a disadvantage at figuring out their own emotions and conveying them for this kind of exchange. Like, it's gonna take time for the LSI to do so. Except if the emotions are provoked for release (see below)

    I was also gonna say: how about you maybe just deal with being challenged directly. But then ofc the EIE is gonna be at a disadvantage there. : p

    Ofc the devil's in the details, so it depends on what he tried to challenge you about. Was it actually fair and reasonable or not.

    But I'm not a believer whatsoever in LSI spoiling EIE.

    Anyway, in my own experiences, it works actually well if we (EIE & me, as an LSI) both turn the disagreement into a little drama and release emotions, convey a few infos that way too, and then able to discuss and resolve stuff rationally too. And no hard feelings that way, lol. Or self-serving manipulation either.

    Yeah I'm a "very reactive" LSI-Se too I guess lol but yeah that's worked for me

    lol I should probably have put a line it to say that I don't condone this sort of behaviour. I was trying to show that probably EIEs aren't level headed and in control like the OP suggested but are just showing it in a different way. Yeah I'd rather be able to take a head on confrontation that resort to manipulation. But these are the cards I've been dealt

    Obviously I can continue to work towards not being such a crybaby but I'm just gonna have a harder time getting there than other people because of where I'm starting from.

    I agree with the drama element. My LSI-Se always feels an immediate release after he's blown some steam. He doesn't hold back and hates it when I do. One time I was taking a while to come back to him during a disagreement and he pushed me to respond and I said, "I'm trying to find a nice way to say I think you're being a dickhead" and he responded with, "why not just call me a dickhead?" So I did and it cleared everything up way quicker.

    It's made me think that all my life I've been taught to do the opposite of my programming (i.e. to stay rational, practice non-violent, non-emotional communication) whereas LSI doesn't respond to that. With him, I'm unlearning all the cultural stuff and just getting back to the raw emotional side. And if I'm not blunt and over the top in my emotions he sometimes doesn't understand that something is wrong.

    It's very freeing to be able to tell someone you love to fuck off and have them appreciate your honesty. And then yeah, like you say, move into a more rational conversation after the release. Maybe being able to do this will also train me away from manipulation too - which is possibly just a byproduct of dealing with other types my whole life and not being able to yell at them but also not being able to choose something other than an emotional response
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    I think when you enter into realm of [neuro]psychiatry experts in their own field want to own/disown you in case you are a freak in positive or negative way. Eccentricity does not exists as a separate category which is a shame. I think it would actually help to focus on real issues. Let individuals be themselves.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrrrmaid View Post
    lol I should probably have put a line it to say that I don't condone this sort of behaviour. I was trying to show that probably EIEs aren't level headed and in control like the OP suggested but are just showing it in a different way. Yeah I'd rather be able to take a head on confrontation that resort to manipulation. But these are the cards I've been dealt

    Obviously I can continue to work towards not being such a crybaby but I'm just gonna have a harder time getting there than other people because of where I'm starting from.
    lol mix of sorta refreshing honesty & complaining crybaby yeah

    I actually met one EIE so far that was able to stand up to my challenging her and not give in or get manipulative. She later said about a specific case of this that she felt the pressure that she'd need to give in and agree to the opinion I was expressing but she tried to deal with it head-on instead. I respect that yeah ...

    So no it's not like impossible for an EIE, no matter about the cards. : p


    I agree with the drama element. My LSI-Se always feels an immediate release after he's blown some steam. He doesn't hold back and hates it when I do. One time I was taking a while to come back to him during a disagreement and he pushed me to respond and I said, "I'm trying to find a nice way to say I think you're being a dickhead" and he responded with, "why not just call me a dickhead?" So I did and it cleared everything up way quicker.

    It's made me think that all my life I've been taught to do the opposite of my programming (i.e. to stay rational, practice non-violent, non-emotional communication) whereas LSI doesn't respond to that. With him, I'm unlearning all the cultural stuff and just getting back to the raw emotional side. And if I'm not blunt and over the top in my emotions he sometimes doesn't understand that something is wrong.

    It's very freeing to be able to tell someone you love to fuck off and have them appreciate your honesty. And then yeah, like you say, move into a more rational conversation after the release. Maybe being able to do this will also train me away from manipulation too - which is possibly just a byproduct of dealing with other types my whole life and not being able to yell at them but also not being able to choose something other than an emotional response
    Yeah I'm sick of being told about this overly positive worldview about how to "stay rational, practice non-violent, non-emotional communication". I mean sometimes maybe it helps but then definitely not always ...... you can't try and make yourself into too much of a do-gooder. Shit's just gonna come out in a worse way, in an indirect or direct fashion later.

    For your last lines, yeah, I would also say all this needs the right relationship context too. But you two clearly have it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mightylizard View Post
    Ti/Fe: I am trying to seem nice and affable when really I am internally cold. When Ti/Fe loses control of their emotions I find it is easier to "not take it seriously" (i.e., they are emotional, but it is more a product of the situation rather than how they really feel)

    Fi/Te: I am trying to seem rational and detached when really I am an emotional mess. When Fi/Te loses control of their emotions it is a downward spiral. Rationality goes out the window and you can just tell there is no way of rationalizing them out of it.
    It isn't this simple lol.

    (For the rest: I type Ti ego, LSI specifically)

    I would say if I show/release my emotions they are real just fine. But there is ofc that dramatic context too especially if an Fe ego does it. It almost always entertains me on the side from Fe types. If it turns dead serious then no I don't enjoy it anymore. And that happens with Fe types too, just not too often. I take the drama seriously in a sense too tho' like it says somewhere in an article about how EIE is capable of expressing emotions in a way you just never forget it.

    Then, "I am trying to seem nice and affable when really I am internally cold", This is true of me part of the time and not true another part of the other time and I think it's the same with Te egos as with me. Really I think this applies on the whole more to Logical types than to Ethical types, regardless of Ti or Te. I find Fe egos way burn hotter or get more wound up about emotions than I do a lot of the time, so they are hardly internally cold ..... And so on.

    And I've been plenty rational and detached when I was an emotional mess inside, but so much inside that it would be invisible even to myself, all buried somewhere deep in the subconscious. And yes losing control of certain such emotions would be a downward spiral until I managed to stop it. Again this would be under extreme circumstances only. But in less extreme circumstances too, I would still be NOT receptive to "be rationalised out of it", bc I just have to release the emotion before I will talk rationally.

    It really isn't about Ti/Fe vs Fi/Te, it's about how emotions work, has nothing to do with Socionics beyond a point, everyone has emotions, feelings the same regardless of sociotype, maybe with different emphases and whatever depending on the individual, but it's still the same selection of emotions and feelings otherwise.

    So where losing control of such emotions is "just drama" it means the emotions were not that repressed for that terribly long or not traumatic and unintegrated emotions. And when it is more than "just drama" - tbh calling it that doesn't give it justice enough - releasing the drama emotions helps clear your head and get it all out in the open and help resolve things eventually - then it's those extra bad emotions. Regardless of Fi/Fe valuing. That simple.

    Where you feel like there is no way of rationalising anyone out of it... it depends more on such things, and not on sociotype. I have been able to tell Te types (mainly Te lead or strong enough Te creative) to cut it and go back to being rational. I have also been unable to tell them that in one case because then it touched too deep for the Te ego (Te lead even, so it was like this despite his otherwise strong rationality). I have also been able to tell Ti types to cut it, or have failed, and that again was dependent on the actual issue emotionally. I have been able to use Fe empathy on Te lead to calm them later. I have been able to do Fi sympathy on Ti ego and so on. No, they were not mistyped.

    Also. Trauma leads to disintegrated emotions and anyone can get trauma, doesn't depend on sociotype.

    So I love reading your theories on emotions but I would not link them to sociotype too strictly. These thoughts can be valid and can stand on their own without involving socionics in it. Feel free to write more on them, I'm always interested

    Where I see it as sociotype is, what the person is more ready to take up overall... So giving Fi to the Te lead is magic like giving Fe to Ti lead, lol. I've seen it happen ... too bad I can't give Fi so easily to Te (when I date Te types this is the drawback from my side).
    Last edited by grumpyvic81; 05-21-2020 at 09:19 PM.

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    Hmm. At first glance, wouldn't it seem the opposite? Emotionally, Alphas are Children and Betas are Adolescents. Kids and teens have a harder time controlling their emotions than adults and the elderly, generally speaking.

    But maybe not older people. Delta dementia? LoL And children are ironically, much more in control than Walmart society gives them credit for. 'You're in control, just like a child' as Madonna would say back before she went nutso.

    That would leave Betas and Deltas being the weakest at controlling their emotions and Alphas and Gammas being the best at it. Emotions don't really come from psychological constructs but from the artistic contradictions inside them anyway.

    IEEs are often therapists and IEIs are often coaxed by their ESE moms into therapy. It doesn't work because it's an emotionally reactive person trying to teach another emotionally reactive person how to not be emotionally reactive. I think honestly it would be better for the IEI to listen to a supervisor that didn't piss him off as much, like maybe a LIE that was more lowkey with Te naturally (Remember, we're all individuals more than we are sociotypes) ... or a SEE semi-dual perhaps.

    But if your theory is right, I think it only seems that way because of Te's ability to institutionalize and externalize emotions or something. So Te/Fi valuers have a greater tendency to feel like they are seconds away from cracking and exploding like a Stepford Wife or something. So it appears they are in less in control. Fe/Ti feels more 'pure' and baby-ish and thus in greater control. I think this is a NTR thing probably, but I like my crazy theory anyway. =D

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    Have you observed that Te/Fi valuing types have less self-control over their emotions?

    Not really. Fi/Te are better for acting in composed ways and feel ashamed of loosing control of their emotions.

    Fe/Ti are energized by emotional display and it seems to be like a demonstration of the genuineness of their feelings.

    In the private/familiar scenarios, LIE and IEE have 1DSi which makes them have problems with relaxing properly. I've seen both drive themselves sick or insane due poor use of Si. They pay too much attention to what's in their minds and daily nuances can causem stress, looking at times like they have poor control of their feelings, but its actually not feelings/emotions, is just a consequence of poor Si.
    Last edited by Tommy; 05-22-2020 at 05:14 PM.

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    Yea if by controlling enotions you mean not express them, then yea Te/Fi usually dont as much as Fe/Ti
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    This thread kind of scares me, because it could easily justify and normalize abusive behavior by type. Overall, the people I noticed who couldn't control their emotions either had mental health issues and/or an entitled attitude.
    “There are things known and there are things unknown, and in between are the doors of perception.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustWandering View Post
    This thread kind of scares me, because it could easily justify and normalize abusive behavior by type. Overall, the people I noticed who couldn't control their emotions either had mental health issues and/or an entitled attitude.
    Yeah exactly, it's just more excuses for people to point fingers based on type or functions or quadra... It's really just an unhealthy human behavior that people of all types do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taffy View Post
    Yeah exactly, it's just more excuses for people to point fingers based on type or functions or quadra... It's really just an unhealthy human behavior that people of all types do.
    Said the type 9

    I think this is very simple. Ppl can get on my nerves about things, it won't bother me much, but when ppl act immorally towards me or anyone I care about and I'll hang them by their guts on trees. (figuratively speaking). Its not uncommon for me to just throw ppl out of my life for immoral behavior. Maybe its also being type 6 and reactive, but I have very minimal tolerance for this stuff. I can get very "in your face" and aggressive-assertive or worse completely uncompromising and domineering when this happens.

    Very chill otherwise, unless someone is being impractical/illogical and pushing it. I'll call those ppl retard to their face even if its my boss.
    Last edited by shotgunfingers; 05-25-2020 at 11:53 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    Said the type 9

    I think this is very simple. Ppl can get on my nerves about things, it won't bother me much, but when ppl act immorally towards me or anyone I care about and I'll hang them by their guts on trees. (figuratively speaking). Its not uncommon for me to just throw ppl out of my life for immoral behavior. Maybe its also being type 6 and reactive, but I have very minimal tolerance for this stuff. I can get very "in your face" and aggressive-assertive or worse completely uncompromising and domineering when this happens.

    Very chill otherwise, unless someone is being impractical/illogical and pushing it. I'll call those ppl retard to their face even if its my boss.
    Seems like you're jumping to conclusions based on someone's type, but I guess that's what a lot of people do with Socionics and typology in general.

    I've been involved in typology communities since I was 13 or so, so I've seen ~the patterns~ of different communities and the similarities. Many people use personality types as a whole as a way to judge others unfairly and stereotype others. "INTJs are all 4chan neckbeards" or "ENFPs are all RAWR scatterbrains". And while the stereotypes are good for jokes and to roast each other, when people take them seriously and treat them as fact it leads to unfair judgement of a large group of people within that type. So this isn't me trying to "mediate this thread and be a type 9", rather it's me airing a grievance and a flaw of typology, because I do think it's largely a part of human nature to look at something and think "Is this facet of human behavior related to this type/function/quadra/etc?". And that's not always fair in my opinion, because everyone is different regardless of type/function/quadra.

    And I do get that. I don't want to derail, but I get like this as well if I feel like someone has been unfairly treated regardless of their relation to me, we can even have bad blood between us or be total strangers and I'll stick up for them if I think they're being unfairly treated. Mainly due to what I deem as improper use of power and unfair power dynamics.

    Anyways, I do think it's valid to explore the emotional ranges and differences between Te/Fi types and Ti/Fe types. This is a forum for typology, after all. But I do hold the belief that poor emotional self control is a sign of unhealthy human behavior, regardless of type or function or quadra.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taffy View Post
    Anyways, I do think it's valid to explore the emotional ranges and differences between Te/Fi types and Ti/Fe types. This is a forum for typology, after all. But I do hold the belief that poor emotional self control is a sign of unhealthy human behavior, regardless of type or function or quadra.
    You have a point when it comes to the emotional control part, one doesn't need to lose control to be assertive, however the only valid reason I see to not assert one's boundaries and remove immoral people is if I gain something by deception, which is a rare situation where I might weigh up the cost of tolerating the other person for some other benefit, such as him/her being useful to me in some way. If this isn't the case I will remove either myself or the other person from the relationship. If I need to be forceful and domineering to achieve this, so be it.

    Example, gf cheats on me. By the next day I'd have her stuff packed and she'd be on the street, full cut off / get the fuck out mode, no big scene, complete relationship break with no way back ever. At the point we are done. If she pulls a scene I'll ignore and avoid, if she gets pushy I'll assertively and aggressively tell her to leave or else I'll take legal measures.

    One doesn't need to cause an emotional scene to manifest strong emotions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JustWandering View Post
    This thread kind of scares me, because it could easily justify and normalize abusive behavior by type. Overall, the people I noticed who couldn't control their emotions either had mental health issues and/or an entitled attitude.
    And dealing with those people requires above-average emotional control from whoever deals with them.

    I feel like Fe types are probably better at expressing emotionality in a controlled manner, while Fi types are better at generally withholding emotion.

    Anyone who is severely lacking in emotional control might have some issues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    You have a point when it comes to the emotional control part, one doesn't need to lose control to be assertive, however the only valid reason I see to not assert one's boundaries and remove immoral people is if I gain something by deception, which is a rare situation where I might weigh up the cost of tolerating the other person for some other benefit, such as him/her being useful to me in some way. If this isn't the case I will remove either myself or the other person from the relationship. If I need to be forceful and domineering to achieve this, so be it.

    Example, gf cheats on me. By the next day I'd have her stuff packed and she'd be on the street, full cut off / get the fuck out mode, no big scene, complete relationship break with no way back ever. At the point we are done. If she pulls a scene I'll ignore and avoid, if she gets pushy I'll assertively and aggressively tell her to leave or else I'll take legal measures.

    One doesn't need to cause an emotional scene to manifest strong emotions.
    None of that was what I meant, dunno if I came off wrong or if I didn't communicate well.

    I didn't touch on boundaries but since you keep mentioning them... Boundaries are very important in shaping healthy relationships, friendships, and views... I agree that they must be defined and asserted since they are vital. I don't think I mentioned anywhere "give up your boundaries and fully submit yourself to the evil scum of the earth". I was simply talking about a grander scale problem of typology communities which is how people take a facet of unhealthy human behavior that most everyone will do at some point in their lives and go "What type/function/quadra does this?". Though I'll admit it's still quite a trivial problem compared to other problems of the world in the first place.

    If one had an emotional outburst over a girlfriend cheating on them, it would be understandable to say the least. Someone cheating on another is an ultimate betrayal of trust. I would most likely get emotional too and many other people would, in all fairness.

    I agree a lot of emotional states are internal and can be deeply hidden, yes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taffy View Post
    None of that was what I meant, dunno if I came off wrong or if I didn't communicate well.

    I didn't touch on boundaries but since you keep mentioning them... Boundaries are very important in shaping healthy relationships, friendships, and views... I agree that they must be defined and asserted since they are vital. I don't think I mentioned anywhere "give up your boundaries and fully submit yourself to the evil scum of the earth". I was simply talking about a grander scale problem of typology communities which is how people take a facet of unhealthy human behavior that most everyone will do at some point in their lives and go "What type/function/quadra does this?". Though I'll admit it's still quite a trivial problem compared to other problems of the world in the first place.

    If one had an emotional outburst over a girlfriend cheating on them, it would be understandable to say the least. Someone cheating on another is an ultimate betrayal of trust. I would most likely get emotional too and many other people would, in all fairness.

    I agree a lot of emotional states are internal and can be deeply hidden, yes.
    Oh now I get it, its about the type 9 thing. e_e it was tongue in cheek, why I put "" there. Idk if you really are 9 or not.

    Anyway, the way one identifies a 9 is rather simple, do they avoid conflict internal or external at any cost in order to spare themselves loss and separation?
    Ennagram types are not as much personality types as they are coping mechanisms (personal defects) that are so ingrained that they have become a constant feature of said individual. One isn't born a 9 or a 6, one is made into one by life circumstances. Conflict avoidance is the cornerstone of the 9's coping mechanism regardless what irrelevant convoluted type descriptions the Enneagram institute comes up with to describe it.

    Unless the 9 is really healthy, they won't assert themselves or god forbid cause a scene, they will just withdraw and avoid both their internal feelings and the external situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    Oh now I get it, its about the type 9 thing. e_e it was tongue in cheek, why I put "" there. Idk if you really are 9 or not.

    Anyway, the way one identifies a 9 is rather simple, do they avoid conflict internal or external at any cost in order to spare themselves loss and separation?
    Ennagram types are not as much personality types as they are coping mechanisms (personal defects) that are so ingrained that they have become a constant feature of said individual. One isn't born a 9 or a 6, one is made into one by life circumstances. Conflict avoidance is the cornerstone of the 9's coping mechanism regardless what irrelevant convoluted type descriptions the Enneagram institute comes up with to describe it.

    Unless the 9 is really healthy, they won't assert themselves or god forbid cause a scene, they will just withdraw and avoid both their internal feelings and the external situation.
    I literally have no idea what you are talking about at this point, wasn't the Enneagram 9 post made 5 or so posts ago? Cringe. Yes I know Enneagram is about "childhood loss", however they're still called personality types by the community because that's a simpler term when casually talking about them.

    You're constantly rambling about things that are way off topic and you sound crazier than me at this point, which I have to applaud you for.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taffy View Post
    I literally have no idea what you are talking about at this point, wasn't the Enneagram 9 post made 5 or so posts ago? Cringe. Yes I know Enneagram is about "childhood loss", however they're still called personality types by the community because that's a simpler term when casually talking about them.

    You're constantly rambling about things that are way off topic and you sound crazier than me at this point, which I have to applaud you for.
    e_e you keep replying and ranting, so I eventually assumed what I wrote upset you. Initially I didn't pick up on this, thus the later response addressing my "typism". Anyway, you are no type 9 lol. Probably a good idea / beneficial to reevaluate that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    e_e you keep replying and ranting, so I eventually assumed what I wrote upset you. Initially I didn't pick up on this, thus the later response addressing my "typism". Anyway, you are no type 9 lol. Probably a good idea / beneficial to reevaluate that.
    Yeah dude, it's a forum. I'm going to post my long winded analysis if I want to, and I was trying to cover all the bases of your fairly off topic points so it wouldn't seem like I was ignoring anything that you put effort into. I never called you out on "typism" either, plus I never mentioned the term since I'm not fond of it for various reasons.
    devourer of the sun // consumer of the moon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taffy View Post
    Yeah dude, it's a forum. I'm going to post my long winded analysis if I want to, and I was trying to cover all the bases of your fairly off topic points so it wouldn't seem like I was ignoring anything that you put effort into. I never called you out on "typism" either, plus I never mentioned the term since I'm not fond of it for various reasons.
    Yup, see totally not 9w8.

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