Social Anxiety (and F PoLR), and I genuinely need help
While the title is true, at most it was clickbaitey.
I'm going through a very hard time in my life, and I understand how important sociability is right now. I know that I've purposely made mistakes and isolated myself in the past, but I shall not wait for others to make the first move anymore, specially at my ripe age of 25. So I'm looking for absolution, I need social help. People and circumstances that can make me want and need them more than I need and want my current bad habits.
But to get there, I must be aware of my social presence. Which is something I've neglected all this time, because it doesn't matter, it's irrelevant at least to me, I wish others would understand and think alike, but everyone has their own valid reasons to and not to, so I can't have it my way always. But I can adapt.
I know that I usually/almost always may come across as intense, filling the whole spectrum of "intenseness" actually. I know that while I do not care about it, my actions and body language can have a huge impact on others, negative and positively, but I'm not sure of exactly how. I'm asking for your tips on how to notice negatives and positives, both in myself and others, in terms of first impressions and general body language.
For some context, I know for a fact the following about the impressions I give out to others:
"Knows what he's talking about" - I know a lot of things, I've really accumulated lots of knowledge, for it to only stay in my head because I don't know how to proactively and productively use it in the real world. Yet. I have good grades and I know how to present and teach others as I would like to be taught.
Intimidating / Scary - I'm not afraid to ask questions, and I'm not really aware of how it may come across, of the tone and words that I may be using. That is missing the point and getting carried away imo - while others may see me as being ballsy and asking things of authority figures that a) one should not be asking about or b) others are too afraid to do so. The "sideshow people" are the ones who actually get bothered by this, as the "authority figures" give feedback then continue on with their lives and actually care about it as much as I do.
Honest - I really cannot lie. I'm also an extremely good liar. There's always reason for everything I do and say, and if there isn't at first glance, I can ponder about or try to pinpoint it also - not trying to take my responsibility away ever, just trying to understand myself, and others, and making it known, in that order. While being private, at the same time, I'm really an open book about everything I choose to share and believe, from my own unfakeable facial expressions to the words I say. I'm also uptight and cold sometimes, and I think this kind of "honesty" also fucks me up because I cannot genuinely laugh at things that I don't find funny or worthy of genuinely laughing at. I come across as really serious, and this consumes me, I become super self-conscious about how much of an idiot I am being because I'm not laughing at a lame joke that everyone in my circle found funny. I cannot laugh out of pity or "just chilling out trying to fit in". I cannot fake these type of emotions. Every time I do it, everyone including myself ends up feeling awful.
Rude / Aggressive - It is true that I don't "measure my words", I'm constantly deeply hurting my family and boyfriend because of what I say, but because I genuinely feel like that is the most impactful way of affecting and exposing that specific issue to someone.
Cold - I know that I'm not a sociopath, I have my own personal way of dealing with grief, but I also do know that at the same time that I'm not touched by most things that would probably touch you, I'm very deeply moved by other things that wouldn't probably affect you (anymore, unless you were a 6yo, not even kidding).
Understandable / Reliable - most people who spend enough time with me actually get to this understanding, and learn that I'm a good listener, open minded and non-judgemental. Depravity is part of human nature, and I can keep a secret. They know it's obvious that I'm confident of my criticism, but I can actually handle a lot of paradoxes, emotions, and bullshit at the same time.
I'm really in need of advice in the following aspects - as I really have no idea but I've been told that I in particular have these affect others easily:
voice and tone: softness and projection of voice?
eyebrows and mouth
any books ?
what kind of things are acceptable to ignore
what kind of things I should consider really important for someone and actually give feedback on
signs that someone feels comfortable or uncomfortable around me?
what are some ways/things that I can fuck relationships up?
what are some ways/things that I can create strong relationships from
I know that it is possible to break or make a person, I do believe that myself and most everyone is capable of it, I just don't know how to. I cannot understand and FEEL the true meaning and impact I can have on others, because I'm not influenced or do not believe in the power that others can have on me - I think it may work both ways.
I'm sorry if I may come across as an arrogant loser, that's because I really am.
Last edited by CowboyBibimbap; 05-11-2020 at 12:41 AM.
Are you a girl or a gay male? If you are either, I like you more, but donít let that out to the angry incels.
I think you are a funny and insightful person and have made useful threads so far.
I think if itís possible, maybe you could try having some conversations on Zoom video chat, record it, and go over it with someone high in Fe who knows about your concerns in this area. Thatís probably going to be more fruitful compared to asking other autistic incel nerds on the internet.
Master of Space and Reality
If you can't laugh at your friends stupid jokes, maybe you need new friends. You seem to focus a lot on details and specifics of how to act and behave, but maybe you need to find an area in life where you can be yourself. I used to think about how to behave a lot, because I also didn't care about what my friends were saying, but I knew I needed friends so I would pretend to fit in. But really, you shouldn't have to think about how to create the right presence or how to position your limbs or whatever, just be yourself and ask yourself what you really want for yourself, and seek out things to do and people that resonate with that. Trying to manipulate how you come off externally to others doesn't really solve the core issue. Obviously you shouldn't act like a complete retard infront of people, but you get what I mean, don't overthink too much, just find people you can be comfortable with
The more you think about how you present yourself in the moment the worse you will present yourself, at least as a general rule. I (Fi-POLR) have gotten to the point where I just am myself. If you like it awesome, if you don't too bad. Funnily enough a lot more people like me now then they did when I was always super conscious of my presentation. I would freeze and feel stiff. Besides, as another general rule: anyone who is gonna think negatively about you beyond a fleeting second of annoyance is probably just repressing issues that they have with themself. I mean, so long as you are a decent person, which most people are. You also IMO become a BETTER person when you aren't obsessed about how you come across because then when you do or say something nice, funny, charming, etc. people can pick up that it isn't an act.
@CowboyBibimbap Your words remind me of an ISTp that I once knew. I had jokingly said to him that I had no ladder that could help him get out of an imaginary hole. Recognition of one shortcomings is the first step in finding customized workarounds and you seem well on your way - but faking an unnatural persona proposed by others is not a solution.....
a two horned unicorn renegade
"Self conscious" social anxiety is quite foreign to me. My anxieties has always stemmed from being "other conscious" and therefore making it an issue for me to handle the situation at hand beyond the current moment. So in a way for me it has always being more aware of the present moment.
Measuring you right now
Winning is for losers
Well first off, you're only 25 so maybe be a bit easy on yourself and more forgiving. Yes that's legally an adult or whatever but still I mean, my hip friend from Canada would say she has socks older than you. =D
You don't always know how nice/mean or right/wrong somebody is going to be for you in your head, you learn that as you talk to them. However you need the balls to talk to them in the first place so you can correctly asses that as you aren't just unfairly prejudging them or gaslighting yourself into believing a delusion. And what is interesting as you navigate the nitty gritty of all this- those you respected can let you down and those you for sure knew were 'bad people' can surprise you with moments of kindness. (don't over value or count on this too much though, a spade is a spade after all. If you go on looking for it, the reverse will no doubt always hold true.)
Social situations are hard for everybody, because people always say what our egos haven't dealt with yet. They are a call for healing, when we'd rather secretly stay at war.
Due to my own issues, I tend to think people are going to be more cruel than they really are. Based on personal experience, as I have witnessed a lot of cruelty/bullying growing up. It's also a defense mechanism in a way- as it feels better to assume they are bad people and keep them away then it is feel suckered and hurt for being naive and trusting. Unless you become a serial killer tho, you are sorta forced into being naive and trusting when you communicate with others in a new situation as you learn all the subtle/nuanced ways you can hurt them and they can hurt you, but you also learn how you can help them and they can help you.
This is also a form of vulnerability, and also sadly explains why people have the tendency to over-react or overly punish people who are being provocative or not quite fitting in or whatever. So instead of truly being social , a lot of us just follow scripts and become 'basic bitches' because it's safer and easier and the basic bitch is the one that isn't attacked by Oprah or the Illuminati etc. Or if they are, they are too much in their happy bubble to even care.
As I grow older, I realize people are more afraid of me than I of them, even though I've also had the ego before of being social anxious and still am at times - but I have discovered, more times they are the scared kitten that needs protection not me- so I am forced to learn how to be the 'kinder one.' Even though I always want them to be nicer, if I am nicer first that shows good pro-social skills. Yet I understand the human tendency to think that being nice = you will get stomped on. I don't think this is really true though, it just feels that way at first. A victimy/scared mentality you get stomped on, but not genuine positivity. I do think the world is always yearning for more genuine niceness/compassion in the world, that isn't just some obviously fake thing ppl are doing to improve their business.