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Thread: There's no J/P switch

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    Kiba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    An MBTI ISFP values Fi, Se, Ni, and Te. Those are the same valued functions as an ISFj/ESI. MBTI should demonstrate a J/P switch if it measures the same traits as in Socionics.

    I was always under the impression that MBTI uses the “j/p” system it does because it more accurately reflects the similarity between mirror types. “ESTP” and “ISTP” look more similar than “ESTp and ISTj”.

    A heretic opinion of mine is that MBTI actually has something going for determining j/p with the first extraverted function. I admittedly am not absolutely sure of my type, but LII seems generally accurate, and almost every other typing I’ve received has me as an introverted rational. At the same time I’d say I relate somewhat more to the perceiving characteristics: I tend to read multiple books at once, I’ve started many projects I gave up, I don’t like to plan in much detail for the future, and I can usually change my decisions easily.
    I think mbti doesn't manage valued or unvalued functions as socionics do, but if they were, 3rd and 4th functions would not be "valued" anyway. Charts below.










    ISFP Fi Se Ni Te are not "valued" functions as they are in socionics. 3rd or Tertiary is an undeveloped "unvalued" function and the 4th is actually the "danger zone", pretty much the same as PoLR and Role in socionics. Here some quotes.






    MBTI TERTIARY

    The third-preferred, or tertiary, function tends to be less interesting to individuals, and they tend to have fewer skills associated with it. The letter of this function does not appear in your type. It is the opposite function from the auxiliary function. If, for example, your auxiliary function is Thinking, then your tertiary will be Feeling.

    Development of this function tends to come later in life (about midlife) after you have grown and feel comfortable with the dominant and auxiliary. As you grow and develop, you learn that there is a time and place to use your third and fourth functions.

    About this time, the question arises in life, is this all there is? The tertiary function can guide you toward areas of your life you have avoided, areas that require skills you do not feel comfortable using. For example, a Thinking type with tertiary Intuition may begin taking literature courses. A Thinking type with tertiary Sensing may begin doing carpentry or weaving. https://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-...ion.htm?bhcp=1
    SOCIONICS ROLE
    3. Role Function

    When a person is actively using his base function, the role function is essentially turned off. The two cannot both be "on" at the same time, because they represent two opposing approaches to similar things. Because of this opposition, the more one gets carried away with one's base function, the more the role function is ignored or suppressed. People are generally somewhat aware of this suppression and perceive it as a personal weakness that needs to be "worked on" in order to meet other people's expectations and achieve something in society. It is typical for people to periodically work on their role function in order to correct imbalances in their life and improve their weak areas. However, these attempts are generally sporadic and are forgotten as soon as the perceived problem begins to go away and the person once again becomes carried away with their usual lifestyle which is dominated by their base function. Thus, development of the role function is more like patching up leaks than building a complete, self-sufficient structure. Often individuals wish they could build up their role function and become "supermen", but an excessive focus on this unreachable goal brings disappointment, because the base function always wins anyways.

    When people are criticized for their lack of attentiveness to their role function, they are often irritated because they are already well aware of the deficiency and have already tried and failed to correct it. When problems arise with the role function, energy flows away from the base function, the individual brings his usual activities to a halt, and tries to pick up all the tasks he had been neglecting. Directing energy through the base function is effortless; working with the role function requires effort and concentration. Thus, people's concept of self-development is often centered on development of the role function and the Super-Ego block in general.

    Compared to the vulnerable function, role function criticism is easier for a person to respond to or dismiss, since they believe that it has some value, in theory. The role function is triggered situationally, when individuals are met with situations that oppose their base aspect of reality. The base function only accepts information relating to its information aspect, and other information cannot be produced into new data with the creative function.https://www.sociotype.com/socionics/functions/Super-Ego
    MBTI FOURTH
    The fourth-preferred, or inferior, function tends to be the least interesting to individuals, and they tend to have even fewer skills associated with it. Development of this function tends to come in late midlife. It can be the source of great stress, or it can be a seed for significant development.

    For example, if Thinking were your dominant function, Feeling would be your least-preferred function. You would probably have significantly less interest in and fewer skills with the Feeling function (e.g., attending to harmony in relationships, giving weight to the personal aspects of decision making).

    We often call the fourth function the inferior function when it emerges without conscious intention and tries to overpower the dominant and auxiliary. This can lead to a person feeling “in the grip” of his or her inferior function. The inferior may also manifest under stress, when resources of the dominant and auxiliary are exhausted. When the inferior function manifests in someone's life, that person may say, “I don't know what got into me.” It often feels like being out of control (outside the conscious ego). The inferior may manifest in negative, immature ways.

    For example, Intuition as an inferior Intuition may manifest not as creative possibilities, but rather as worry over every possibility that can go wrong. Sensing may manifest not as attention to details, but rather as an obsession with them.https://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-...r-function.htm
    SOCIONICS PoLR

    4. Vulnerable Function

    The vulnerable function is also called the Point or Place of Least Resistance (PoLR) or sensitive function. The element in this function creates a feeling of frustration and inadequacy. A person does not understand the importance of this element entirely, and it can easily lead to painful consequences if not adequately considered.

    However, to directly engage this function creates feelings of insecurity and distress. One reason why the vulnerable function is so difficult to engage is because three other conscious functions come before it, making this one the most difficult to comprehend. Often an alternative approach may be found from the view of the mobilizing function. Because of the psychological disincentives to using the vulnerable function, people usually try to ignore information related to it, and in extreme cases do so even in situations where it is most relevant. Even with a theoretical understanding of how this element works, it is difficult to turn it into practical norms of behavior. One can "develop" the vulnerable function by recognizing that it is actually important in certain real-life circumstances. Even if the subject recognizes this, he will still usually try to avoid taking responsibility for it himself, or develop a minimalist or non-traditional approach (possibly using other functions) that is enough to satisfy one's own needs. The presence of a dual usually dissolves any concern there might be about how to approach matters of the vulnerable function.https://www.sociotype.com/socionics/functions/Super-Ego
    Last edited by Kiba; 05-06-2020 at 10:14 PM.

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