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Thread: Ever had a Contrary Partner?

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    Default Ever had a Contrary Partner?

    Has anyone ever had a contrary relationship? Can you share your experience?
    Specifically, have you ever experienced that “becoming unbalanced when a third party is around” thing and can you describe it?
    My contrary partner and I have never once been around another person so I have no idea.

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    I am LIE and my sister is LII, which is a Contrary relationship. I feel closer to her than I do to anyone else in the family, but we don't do much together, and when we do, we do it with just each other. No one else. I hadn't connected that with "becoming unbalanced when a third party is around", but I do know that I interact with her best when it's just the two of us.

    I have an LIE friend who is married to a female LII, and they live alone in a big ($800k) house in the woods. When I have seen them in social settings, they are barely polite to each other, and they sometimes fight if they think they can't be overheard. I mean, they really fight. On the other hand, he seems like he's not interested in divorcing her. She did tell me (in his presence) that if he ever divorced her, she'd take him for everything he owned. He seemed not to react to that statement, as if it was old news.

    Beebe said that there is an immediate attraction between types with Te and Ti dominant functions. Same with Ni and Ne, Se and Si, Fe and Fi. I think he's right about this. I also think that this attraction can be mistaken for a sexual attraction, until it is too late.

    How can you have a contrary partner and not be around other people? Are you meeting in a motel room?

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    I mean I think it's more or less the same with other (equal) relations. Things don't get as deep or direct if you are around others subconsciously catering to their values.

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    I've seen a SLE-SLI contrary marriage, where he's an Iranian SLE-Ti and she's a Swedish SLI-Te. They have two sons, older guy is SLI-Te and younger one is SLE-Ti.

    Their relationship has been rocky. Those who haven't read anything about socionics have said that it's as if their family has broken up into two parts. The SLI-Te son has taken after his mother and supports her in every way, including going into medicine as she's a cardio specialist and a surgeon, while the younger SLE-Ti son prefers to hang out with his SLE father who's a DCNH Creative subtype entrepreneur with lots of business ideas and ups and downs. When SLE's business dwained, due to his sporadic style of leadership, his SLI wife would tell their sons that he's a loser, and this when they've been on the brink of separation. Over time they've mended their relationship, however, it's like a very thin layer of ice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I am LIE and my sister is LII, which is a Contrary relationship. I feel closer to her than I do to anyone else in the family, but we don't do much together, and when we do, we do it with just each other. No one else. I hadn't connected that with "becoming unbalanced when a third party is around", but I do know that I interact with her best when it's just the two of us.

    I have an LIE friend who is married to a female LII, and they live alone in a big ($800k) house in the woods. When I have seen them in social settings, they are barely polite to each other, and they sometimes fight if they think they can't be overheard. I mean, they really fight. On the other hand, he seems like he's not interested in divorcing her. She did tell me (in his presence) that if he ever divorced her, she'd take him for everything he owned. He seemed not to react to that statement, as if it was old news.

    Beebe said that there is an immediate attraction between types with Te and Ti dominant functions. Same with Ni and Ne, Se and Si, Fe and Fi. I think he's right about this. I also think that this attraction can be mistaken for a sexual attraction, until it is too late.

    How can you have a contrary partner and not be around other people? Are you meeting in a motel room?
    Do the LIE and LII fight over small things?
    Do you fight your sibling when a third party is around? What annoys you about them suddenly when there’s other people around?
    I’m trying to understand what changes.
    Is it that you’re 100% yourself with them alone and then in public you don’t like the mask each other puts on for other people?
    Is the contrary partner akin to a mistress one has and the third party would be your dual spouse? (That’s one idea I’ve been pondering)
    And I meet my contrary partner in a Hotel, thank you. Lol. We’re hooking up, guess it was obvious huh.

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    I've known many LIEs (one was a close friend for several years) but have never been intimate with one. They all seemed rather competitive and egocentric, but nothing about their behaviour really stood out as something that would bother me. However, I assumed that I was a point of irritation for more than a few because I sensed condescension in their tones toward me; several feared me but this couldn't be equated to any form of respect - so I tended to maintain a polite distance.....

    a.k.a. I/O

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    I'm close friends with an EIE, and sometimes he shares really weird conspiracy theories with me that make no sense whatsoever but he tries to fully convince me on them with no evidence and if I don't agree he just tries harder and harder so I eventually learned to just change topics with him and never share my point of view because he has a tendency to try and mold your point of view to his point of view and if you don't mold you are a bad person lol. He also has a tendency to change his point of view to the opposite of what he used to think and that drives me nuts. Also he can take an argument and turn it into the most obscure discussion about something barely related to the original point, it's amazing. We had an argument about WWE wrestlers not being ready for MMA, and he turned it into a passionate arguement about MMA being the same as Roman colliseums and anyone who watches is an immoral savage, it got so bad he had to take a walk outside because I shut down and didn't want to hear it, but later watches Ronda Rousey fight Katie Holms, and discusses why she lost. Other than that he does have alot of wisdom about things and we've been through alot.

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    I've never tried it, and the romance styles would probably clash. Between SFs, I could see it working because they'd have the social skills to pull off weird relationship combinations.

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    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    My Benefactor ex, ESTj, many years ago when my son was young, left our nearly 20-year marriage to be with his ISFj paramour, his Contrary partner, and they are still together, in her beautiful home (she kicked her hubby, father of their children, out of their old Victorian he had slaved on for years, to be replaced by my ex). A very nice house, and my husband's earning powers allowed her to keep the house (while I had to sell the house I loved and had worked on hard, stripping old paint, and careful repainting every inch, wallpapering, planting gardens including 1000s of bulb I bought in November clearance sales and planted by portable light at night. Losing my house was tough.) They are still together, as it often works with 2nd wives (though I don't believe they married). My son says it seems a good relationship, in fact, it's "Boring" at their house.

    Reading about the types, by type-standards alone, it seems it must be better for her as Contrary partner, an equal relationship, than for me, the dud-half of the unequal Benefit Relations. I am glad for my (recent college grad) son, who is living in their home now, that he is not in a tension-filled home. He was with me thru high school, and is just laid off his somewhat new job. Our home had tension when my son was young, at least sporadically. I never knew when his Dad was going to, out of the blue, set of in an explosive verbally abusive about some unexpected problem that was ALL my fault. My guess is that that does not happen there, and if that is so, I am glad for them both, as well as for my son. It wasn't a nice way to live, on eggshells all the time.

    Another thing that is different about their relationship than ours is, she is quite assertive about how her home should be run, and rather rules in that way (her ex told me she was always that way), and I never ruled. I let the ex rule, particularly because I wanted to keep peace, and it seemed the only way. The ESFj-ex would go all out to help any neighbor or stranger, but I could not ask him for help with anything; he would refuse, or more likely, get very explosively angry at me for asking. So, as my family of origin encouraged us all to be quite independent, I just did everything myself, alone. Worked a busy career and did all the cleaning, cooking, dishes, laundry, shopping, gardening, yard work except mowing and shoveling, and lots, lots more. And I single-handedly put on huge feasts for family holidays (almost exclusively his family). So when my son said his Dad helped with putting on annual holiday dinners for her visiting family, I was surprised. I explained that his Dad always refused to help me with anything, and asked how she got him to do things? He said she justs asks him to do something, and if he bulks, she gives him "a look", and he immediately does it.* Hmm.

    That surprised me, but in the end, I think it's a better pairing. (Though, the divorce was absolutely devastating to me, and the wounding of it reverberated for years, and I thank the Lord Jesus, because He healed me of the trauma of that. He made me whole again, and besides that, He gave me the grace to forgive them both, when I could not conjure it up myself). I did not know how to prevent the ex from treating me like a doormat. My efforts to change that dynamic with gentle pleadings or attempts to reason only escalated things, making it all worse. And that, for his eternal soul, was not a good thing. This is better for him, to know more of how to be a partner.

    So, ex is ESFj, and the partner is ISFj. I read, also, what is mentioned above about the partnership getting along better alone, and I see that, as I did once hear of a conversation they had in a social situation that hinted at some tension, but apparently, no tension when at home together, which is how they normally are.

    But I also read that this particular pairing really has NOTHING in common except eating food! That's it, they say. And there is some evidence of that going on, unless it's just the natural aging process I am seeing in pics. I don't know. I am aging, but I am losing weight (but on purpose, by effort). My husband and I also very much enjoy food together, but we enjoy a lot of things together, and when we want to cut down on weight, or fast, or limit good things to eat for Lent or Fridays, we are fine doing that together. We are fine either feasting or fasting together, and pretty much agree when it's a good time to do either. But we are duals, and I am so blessed that way.

    ______________

    * This reminds me of a story of Abe Lincoln's family of origin. Abe's Dad's first wife always really, really wanted a wood (rather than dirt) floor. It was her dream, it would have made her so happy. But she was always refused this. She was told no; they didn't need it. When 2nd wife came with a wagon load of fine furniture, she said, "Oh, no, we can't have this. We need a wood floor" and refused to bring the furniture into the dirt floor. The husband started the wood floor the very next day...
    ____________

    The ISFj would be a good partner for you, @Adam Strange. However I do not think she is looking. [Anyway, you would ahve to move there, as she is not leaving her lovely home!] What is odd is, I wonder if her ex is ENTj? I had talks with him when we both found out our spouses were having an affair. I seemed to sense a Childlike character to him, but, maybe not. Do you think that is possible, to break up with your Dual, because the grass seems greener with an ESFj who truly and totally thinks he's "The Bomb"? Interested in your thoughts on that.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    My Benefactor ex, ESFj, many years ago when my son was young, left our nearly 20-year marriage to be with his ISFj paramour, his Contrary partner, and they are still together, in her beautiful home (she kicked her hubby, father of their children, out of their old Victorian he had slaved on for years, to be replaced by my ex). A very nice house, and my husband's earning powers allowed her to keep the house (while I had to sell the house I loved and had worked on hard, stripping old paint, and careful repainting every inch, wallpapering, planting gardens including 1000s of bulb I bought in November clearance sales and planted by portable light at night. Losing my house was tough.) They are still together, as it often works with 2nd wives (though I don't believe they married). My son says it seems a good relationship, in fact, it's "Boring" at their house.

    Reading about the types, by type-standards alone, it seems it must be better for her as Contrary partner, an equal relationship, than for me, the dud-half of the unequal Benefit Relations. I am glad for my (recent college grad) son, who is living in their home now, that he is not in a tension-filled home. He was with me thru high school, and is just laid off his somewhat new job. Our home had tension when my son was young, at least sporadically. I never knew when his Dad was going to, out of the blue, set of in an explosive verbally abusive about some unexpected problem that was ALL my fault. My guess is that that does not happen there, and if that is so, I am glad for them both, as well as for my son. It wasn't a nice way to live, on eggshells all the time.

    Another thing that is different about their relationship than ours is, she is quite assertive about how her home should be run, and rather rules in that way (her ex told me she was always that way), and I never ruled. I let the ex rule, particularly because I wanted to keep peace, and it seemed the only way. The ESFj-ex would go all out to help any neighbor or stranger, but I could not ask him for help with anything; he would refuse, or more likely, get very explosively angry at me for asking. So, as my family of origin encouraged us all to be quite independent, I just did everything myself, alone. Worked a busy career and did all the cleaning, cooking, dishes, laundry, shopping, gardening, yard work except mowing and shoveling, and lots, lots more. And I single-handedly put on huge feasts for family holidays (almost exclusively his family). So when my son said his Dad helped with putting on annual holiday dinners for her visiting family, I was surprised. I explained that his Dad always refused to help me with anything, and asked how she got him to do things? He said she justs asks him to do something, and if he bulks, she gives him "a look", and he immediately does it.* Hmm.

    That surprised me, but in the end, I think it's a better pairing. (Though, the divorce was absolutely devastating to me, and the wounding of it reverberated for years, and I thank the Lord Jesus, because He healed me of the trauma of that. He made me whole again, and besides that, He gave me the grace to forgive them both, when I could not conjure it up myself). I did not know how to prevent the ex from treating me like a doormat. My efforts to change that dynamic with gentle pleadings or attempts to reason only escalated things, making it all worse. And that, for his eternal soul, was not a good thing. This is better for him, to know more of how to be a partner.

    So, ex is ESFj, and the partner is ISFj. I read, also, what is mentioned above about the partnership getting along better alone, and I see that, as I did once hear of a conversation they had in a social situation that hinted at some tension, but apparently, no tension when at home together, which is how they normally are.

    But I also read that this particular pairing really has NOTHING in common except eating food! That's it, they say. And there is some evidence of that going on, unless it's just the natural aging process I am seeing in pics. I don't know. I am aging, but I am losing weight (but on purpose, by effort). My husband and I also very much enjoy food together, but we enjoy a lot of things together, and when we want to cut down on weight, or fast, or limit good things to eat for Lent or Fridays, we are fine doing that together. We are fine either feasting or fasting together, and pretty much agree when it's a good time to do either. But we are duals, and I am so blessed that way.

    ______________

    * This reminds me of a story of Abe Lincoln's family of origin. Abe's Dad's first wife always really, really wanted a wood (rather than dirt) floor. It was her dream, it would have made her so happy. But she was always refused this. She was told no; they didn't need it. When 2nd wife came with a wagon load of fine furniture, she said, "Oh, no, we can't have this. We need a wood floor" and refused to bring the furniture into the dirt floor. The husband started the wood floor the very next day...
    ____________
    It sounds like you got rid of a bad husband at the cost of a good house. I'd call that a good deal, myself. A very good deal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    The ISFj would be a good partner for you, @Adam Strange. However I do not think she is looking. [Anyway, you would have to move there, as she is not leaving her lovely home!]
    I wish her and her lovely home a very good life together.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    What is odd is, I wonder if her ex is ENTj? I had talks with him when we both found out our spouses were having an affair. I seemed to sense a Childlike character to him, but, maybe not. Do you think that is possible, to break up with your Dual, because the grass seems greener with an ESFj who truly and totally thinks he's "The Bomb"? Interested in your thoughts on that.
    I think it is very possible to break up with a Dual. I think it happens all the time, in fact. Most people aren't familiar with Duality and many have no understanding or appreciation for how it works.

    I've dated a couple ESI's and left one because she was sx-last because I don't like sx-last, and the other one didn't like me because I'm not SLI like her father. People can bring a lot of preconceived notions to a relationship, and not all of them are realistic. They can place the superficial and immediately evident factors in front of long-term compatibility ones. And then they either learn to compromise or they spin the wheel again.

    Oh, well. Ideally, like a Buddhist reincarnating, we'll eventually get it right.

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    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    It sounds like you got rid of a bad husband at the cost of a good house. I'd call that a good deal, myself. A very good deal..
    Right on that. In the end, it's clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I wish her and her lovely home a very good life together..
    Ha, yes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I think it is very possible to break up with a Dual. I think it happens all the time, in fact. Most people aren't familiar with Duality and many have no understanding or appreciation for how it works..
    It is possible, yes. But in this case I have given it more thought, and I may have hit on his type, and I think now that it's not yours. I have always wondered, about her ex-husband's type, and dwelling on the wondering of a person's type often makes me realize it. So I dwelled, and I realized!

    I think her ex husband was ESTj. Making them semi-duals. He took it real hard when this completely sideswiped him, and as I was in the same state of total shock at the same time, it helped at the time to have a phone-friend in the trenches with me. ESTjs rarely open up, except only at brief windows, and a crisis-peak is one of those rare times. Then they close back up. Having seen an ESTj brother navigate the same shock, I realize their kind of response was the same. Plus I listened when he spoke about his marriage, and though there was plenty of comfort and a lack of strife there (which made the affair and divorce such a shock to him), nothing he said about it made me think they were duals.

    But his wife, the ISFj, was basically a woman who had it all, and I have seen the following in have-it-all women before: They feel it is not quite enough, that some one thing is missing, and if they just had that, they would be good, done, complete. So they go seeking that missing thing in romance. And my ex prided himself as a top player in that game [he and his brothers used to brag that the guys in their family had such prowess in that]. And her seeking coincided with a time my ex was just hankering to excel in his old youth-inspiring role again (also this need of his came for another particular reason in our marriage, but that is another story), and a booze-soaked high school reunion of their band of common old friends, nostalgically reunited from all points of the country, set all this off.

    Also, as far as his being ESTj, when I look, in my mind, for the evidence of the broadness, the interest, of iNtuitive vs. Sensor, I'm not seeing it. Instead, the groundedness of Sensor. Also, though I don't want to give, on forum, identifying details (I might PM you), his line of work, now that I think of it, was probably more ESTj than ENTj. I also remember a real comfort in his "presence" when we talked on the phone (one feels the essence of a person, even if only voice, or only written words). And that "comfort", when I recall it, feels more like my response to a Caregiver. So I am thinking, yes, LSE.

    I heard he married again, and I truly hope it was more than a semi-dual. I hope it was his dual. That would be justice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I've dated a couple ESI's and left one because she was sx-last because I don't like sx-last, and the other one didn't like me because I'm not SLI like her father. People can bring a lot of preconceived notions to a relationship, and not all of them are realistic. They can place the superficial and immediately evident factors in front of long-term compatibility ones. And then they either learn to compromise or they spin the wheel again.

    Oh, well. Ideally, like a Buddhist reincarnating, we'll eventually get it right.
    You are so right about some folks being stuck on a type that is not their dual, for various reasons. I have seen it often. Unresolved conflicts, often. I have been there myself!

    Well I often pray that your ESI will come to you, Adam! I truly want that for you. Don't forget, some sx-firsts will find safety only in a man who respects the desire to keep sexual intimacy to the marriage bed. They don't necessarily want to announce that when they first get to know someone, like they need to wear a label, but they need to know this desire is safe, and respected - even valued. They desire only a man who they sense is checking them out to decide if he wants to have a lifetime commitment to them.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

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    I've never had a contrary partner but I've had a very close contrary friend (who I ended up falling out with). The friendship felt very close and meaningful at the time but looking back I realise that I never felt comfortbale with them to share personal stuff. Recently, I made an IEE rave buddy but that relationship seems to also be taking a turn for the worse. I have another IEE friend at work who is older than me and seems like a well-rounded person. I think in future this is the type of IEE I'll be friends with.

    Socionics has given me the courage to try to be friends with people in my own quadra but I wonder if I will also be able to have good relationships with people in the opposite quadra. It seems weird to avoid becoming freinds with people because of their type..

    I wonder if, later in life, it's more possible to be good friends with them- if you are more mature/mentally healthy. I think I'll basically end up telling my contraries and quasi-identicals about socionics in order to feel better in my relationships with them. (sorry to make this about Delta, but I think my relationships with quasi-identicals have similar problems to contraries).

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    You're a peach and I'm a plum thegreenfaerie's Avatar
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    Yes. I have been attracted to them, and they me. I have had much in common with them as far as tastes and interests and have had a lot of physical chemistry with them. I should really just refer to one (of two), because I’m still iffy on the typing of one of them, but I think there was a good chance he was IEI. Neither of them were exactly stable so that's a big factor in why it didn't work out and may be more significant than the contrary relations/type... However, I did notice with this last one that although we had a lot of chemistry and similar interests and tastes… that we didn't completely mentally click. He seemed to click better with a woman who seems like either an aggressor or a caretaker (leaning aggressor), despite their not having as many surface level things in common. One thing I noticed was the sense of humor. We could make each other laugh, but not the way it had seemed to be with this other woman, which he mentioned as a way to hurt me when he was angry at one point. Some of the things he found humorous I found… ehhh, a bit too vulgar I suppose. Not a huge deal really, but just something I noticed. I guess it was one factor of many in realizing he was far from an ideal mate. It does make me consider duality theory more. I don’t think she was his dual (my best guess is SEE for her), but she was closer to it than I was. The other dude who might be IEI, same thing on the humor actually, not vulgar really, just, not my cup of tea. Kind of like hit or miss rather than “in sync”...and same thing, we had near identical tastes in music and film (not shows though, he liked Family Guy :/, physical attraction and chemistry, but all surface level).

    I suppose the main confirmed IEI I was talking about and I did have a lot of the same values and lifestyle choices, but yeah... did not work out, though he has still tried to have me visit across states. Not happening, both of these guys are basically dicks. I guess I just picked the wrong IEI. Actually, they both picked me heh :/
    Last edited by thegreenfaerie; 05-14-2020 at 06:25 AM.

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    I had a seven year relationship with an ESE. It was seven years too long in my opinion. When a third party was present (usually one of our/her friends), I was the one who would be quiet. If I was the one doing the talking, she would be the one who would shut up (which is, in hindsight, amazing considering that she would regularly not shut the fuck up). Toward the end of the relationship, she became demanding of my Ni and frequently complained that I didn't appreciate her enough. When I was unhealthy, she would compare me with other men and highlight qualities that she liked. One that stands out in my mind is a LII man.

    Pros
    the sex was frequent
    I recognized how to use my Fe (big, happy smiles!)

    Cons
    she was way way too demanding
    frequent fights

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    i used to play chess with an ILI
    i also ask ILI cousin if he want to join my project . he never chat back. the project is to optimistic for him . haha

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by calm View Post
    Has anyone ever had a contrary relationship? Can you share your experience?
    Specifically, have you ever experienced that “becoming unbalanced when a third party is around” thing and can you describe it?
    My contrary partner and I have never once been around another person so I have no idea.
    When I first read the IR description that was one of the parts that made alot of sense to me. My EIE friend "gets me" when it's just me and him talking but when other people are around he likes to entertain people by putting me on the spot and making jokes about weird things I do. Most of the times it's funny but there have been a couple embarrassing times. And when I am around people I also feel the tendency to let off some steam by pointing out some of the things that frustrate me about him to someone else who would hear me out and see I'm not crazy for thinking this thing he does is weird lol and I also make fun of him to other people. It kinda feels like betrayal honestly, in private it's all understood, but in a group you kind of throw each other under the bus.

    An example: I'm type 4 EII, I've had the classic Fi brooding stages of one. He would always act like he understood the "brooding artist" and how it makes me more creative and in touch with "art" and blah blah blah. It all sounded nice so I let him go on. But at parties he was always like " Yea don't mind my friend he's one of those misunderstood artist types." It's funny, but very different when then when he was trying to act like he relates to me when we were in private but in public says I'm weird.

    And he's really into conspiracy theories and aliens, and so one day he takes me to some spot to show me where he saw a UFO. We see 2 floating objects at night, it's real dark, he starts running in fear and I play along with it because, well, idk it was funny and if I denied those objects were UFOs he'd argue with me to death about why that really were, which I wasn't trying to hear. Then later on social media he tags me in a post saying "LP tell them what we saw that night!" and I reply "You mean those 2 birds flying over the bridge." I'm sure he felt like I betrayed him in front of other people.
    Last edited by Lord Pixel; 07-31-2020 at 06:57 AM.

  17. #17
    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    extinguishment. It's like I say A and SEE says B and the result: 0. Then SEE says Z and I say Y and result: 0.

    We just extinguish each other. Everything equals zero.
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)


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