View Poll Results: What do you think of Sweden and the Netherlands' response?

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  • Our Viking and wooden-shoed friends are the leaders of the free world and we salute you.

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  • Those dirty Swedes and Hollanders are going to give us all the Corona virus!

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Thread: Responses to COVID-19

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    Default Responses to COVID-19

    What do you think about Sweden and the Netherlands' response?

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    economical interests (theyre not isolated cases, even in EU)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    economical interests (theyre not isolated cases, even in EU)
    The real question is why are we measuring our countries relative to other countries like it's some kind of cold war? "Let's stay on lockdown so we don't become Italy!" is the kind of thing I hear. The thing is, it's not possible to do a lockdown long-term, and I'm not sure it's possible to actually avoid anything by doing a lockdown short-term since the risks are clearly long-term risks. If Sweden has a death rate twice as high as other Scandinavian countries but then it levels off quickly while other countries' are still growing, Sweden might come out on top. It's hard to maintain a health care system in a crashed economy, never mind that if you're just keeping people on their deathbeds for a few weeks longer, they're not going to be seeing their relatives' graduations and new businesses and things like that because that's exactly what the lockdowns have been stopping.

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    don't holla @ us ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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    Quote Originally Posted by coeruleum View Post
    The real question is why are we measuring our countries relative to other countries like it's some kind of cold war? "Let's stay on lockdown so we don't become Italy!" is the kind of thing I hear. The thing is, it's not possible to do a lockdown long-term, and I'm not sure it's possible to actually avoid anything by doing a lockdown short-term since the risks are clearly long-term risks. If Sweden has a death rate twice as high as other Scandinavian countries but then it levels off quickly while other countries' are still growing, Sweden might come out on top. It's hard to maintain a health care system in a crashed economy, never mind that if you're just keeping people on their deathbeds for a few weeks longer, they're not going to be seeing their relatives' graduations and new businesses and things like that because that's exactly what the lockdowns have been stopping.
    these collapses happened before, in times of war public health is always kept on the frontline and has number one priority. in our current case the irony is that the health system became the same as an army, protectors become our soldiers.

    economy will suck for long, it's not like it didn't suck before, especially it sucked because of its pyramidal flowing, but economy is not the only thing. if EU is in some cases an example of human richness and rights, it's ironic to see how these values have been put aside in favor of economy, the economy of the state, not that of the people. no surprise to see this greed in those countries that are an example of social democracy, social democracies based on money.

    paradigm shifting times

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    I think we should either tackle it HARD like China, or ignore it almost entirely and rough through it. In western countries were currently dealing with in a very half-assed manner that's doing severe damage to the economy while at the same time not completely stopping it from spreading. What's the point of closing hair shops and movie theaters if we still got loads of people walking around in grocery stores and gas stations without mask? Governments need to act decisively or not at all.

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    Basically they're less insane than Italy or Spain (remember in Italy they're using helicopters to spot people running alone on the beach, so we're not talking about anything that makes sense), but a probably Sweden should have closed restaurants and such. I don't think cinemas or universities or schools should open now, that doesn't seem like a good idea, big classrooms are basically the place where people get sick with viruses and such.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by coeruleum View Post
    Italy and Spain's health care systems were overwhelmed because they were underfunded to begin with.
    Italy was overwhelmed basically in one specific region, near Milan. Our government is making this much bigger than it is because they want to get money from the EU.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Japan has the highest number of hospital beds, 1.3% of the population. Average occupancy rate in normal times is 75%. The hospitalization rate for the flu is 1/10 of 1% of all cases whereas the rate for COVID-19 is about 10%. Italy has a death rate of 7.7% among the infected. If you can't understand the gravity of the situation yet, at least appreciate the fact that every government in the world has decided to put everything on hold to deal with the virus.

    Relaxing the restrictions too early, or not applying them at all, is dangerous. Case in point Singapore.

    Singapore had a model coronavirus response, then cases spiked. What happened?

    COVID-19 death toll in NJ already equals 3 combined years of flu

    But people will believe whatever they want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by coeruleum View Post
    I understand the argument that we need to keep countries' health systems from being overwhelmed, but last I checked, the death rate from the virus in the general population is 0.37%, so I don't think the health system would be overwhelmed in most countries, and I think Italy and Spain's health care systems were overwhelmed because they were underfunded to begin with.
    the fatality rate has been around a 5% consistently since the start of the pandemic, and the most developed countries of the world have started to take extreme measures because they wouldn't have been able to deal with the weight this would charge on the public life. Italy's example's an interesting one because the greatest size of the contagions happened in the most developed regions of the country, regions that are between the most advanced in Europe, which is to say, they're between the most advanced in the world. it's no secret either that the vast majority of countries are unchecking cases or hiding their data, which is done for strictly political/economic reasons.

    you need a lot of data to analyze the situation and unfortunately a shallow analysis about "the right to get out of home, the right to happiness", doesn't hold any justice in a situation like this, because it's exceptional. who fucking cares if you get bored at home, aha, sorry, but there are people losing their lives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    the fatality rate has been around a 5% consistently since the start of the pandemic, and the most developed countries of the world have started to take extreme measures because they wouldn't have been able to deal with the weight this would charge on the public life. Italy's example's an interesting one because the greatest size of the contagions happened in the most developed regions of the country, regions that are between the most advanced in Europe, which is to say, they're between the most advanced in the world. it's no secret either that the vast majority of countries are unchecking cases or hiding their data, which is done for strictly political/economic reasons.

    you need a lot of data to analyze the situation and unfortunately a shallow analysis about "the right to get out of home, the right to happiness", doesn't hold any justice in a situation like this, because it's exceptional. who fucking cares if you get bored at home, aha, sorry, but there are people losing their lives.
    Five percent? Do you have a source for that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Five percent? Do you have a source for that?
    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...110-8/fulltext

    https://ourworldindata.org/coronavir...-from-covid-19

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    Thanks! I haven’t fully looked at the data in the second link (so perhaps you linked me bogus!) but the majority of people I’ve been hearing IRL have been talking about this virus is a “statistical blip” compared to the flu, so I was surprised when I saw an estimate that high. And when I looked it up myself the first few links I clicked were older articles giving an estimate of around 3%. Not that that isn’t a lot.

    I’m morbidly curious to see how many people actually do end up dying.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    the fatality rate has been around a 5% consistently since the start of the pandemic, and the most developed countries of the world have started to take extreme measures because they wouldn't have been able to deal with the weight this would charge on the public life. Italy's example's an interesting one because the greatest size of the contagions happened in the most developed regions of the country, regions that are between the most advanced in Europe, which is to say, they're between the most advanced in the world. it's no secret either that the vast majority of countries are unchecking cases or hiding their data, which is done for strictly political/economic reasons.

    you need a lot of data to analyze the situation and unfortunately a shallow analysis about "the right to get out of home, the right to happiness", doesn't hold any justice in a situation like this, because it's exceptional. who fucking cares if you get bored at home, aha, sorry, but there are people losing their lives.
    The fatality rate changes a lot depending on the age of who has the virus, basically under 40 years of age you have more chance of dying by a car accident, above 75 you should avoid this virus otherwise it's quite likely that you'll die. A sensical policy would have tried to protect those above let's say 65, especially those placed in elderly care institutions.

    But I know this information will be of no interest to anybody, decisions have been made and minds have been brainwashed.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Five percent? Do you have a source for that?
    number of deaths/ number of total cases %... it's higher than 5% but let's be optimistic

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    The fatality rate changes a lot depending on the age of who has the virus, basically under 40 years of age you have more chance of dying by a car accident, above 75 you should avoid this virus otherwise it's quite likely that you'll die. A sensical policy would have tried to protect those above let's say 65, especially those placed in elderly care institutions.

    But I know this information will be of no interest to anybody, decisions have been made and minds have been brainwashed.

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    It's known a few why only some people die, why many have no hard symptoms and how all develops on longer times. If to take some infections which are kept in calm state, then there is one possibility. The current death rates do not take into account that virus may stay in a body for long, to be reactivated after a time and to kill even without hard symptoms. You also may get a reactivated virus from people which show no symptoms.

    This virus was made as biological weapon in USA and probably spreaded intentionally. It may have surprises.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    That's actually what I said.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    This virus was made as biological weapon in USA and probably spreaded intentionally. It may have surprises.
    That's very unlikely. What's likely is that was being studied in that lab in Wuhan and it spread out unintentionally.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    That's very unlikely. What's likely is that was being studied in that lab in Wuhan and it spread out unintentionally.
    I think the virus probably just spread directly from bats to some rural people in subtropical China and then someone went to visit their relatives in Wuhan or something else similar. The Wuhan Institute of Virology doesn't store SARS-CoV-2 viruses on their premises. Frankly, with all the people in rural subtropical China with novel coronavirus antibodies, it's a wonder one hasn't transferred to the human population sooner. We're going to need the Wuhan Institute of Virology, which is also funded by the US and other countries, now more than ever, since more viruses could enter the population and we don't want the world to shut down again.

    The Chinese government is acting guilt-riddled, but frequently people who are accused of a crime or called mentally incompetent make themselves sound guilty by shouting "I didn't do it!" or "I'm not insane!" over and over. That doesn't mean they did it or that they're insane or no one would ever be falsely accused or falsely declared incompetent. The Chinese government yelling "we didn't do it!" is the same concept.

    https://www.dw.com/en/did-coronaviru...ory/a-53171292
    https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...-coronavirus1/

    Quote Originally Posted by Scientific American
    Near Shitou Cave, for example, many villages sprawl among the lush hillsides in a region known for its roses, oranges, walnuts and hawthorn berries. In October 2015 Shi’s team collected blood samples from more than 200 residents in four of those villages. It found that six people, or nearly 3 percent, carried antibodies against SARS-like coronaviruses from bats—even though none of them had handled wildlife or reported SARS-like or other pneumonia-like symptoms. Only one had travelled outside of Yunnan prior to sampling, and all said they had seen bats flying in their village.

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    It came from Batman.

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    Here's an update on Sweden's handling of the coronavirus: Can You Beat COVID-19 Without a Lockdown? Sweden Is Trying

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    yeah, Vanity Fair...

    here's how you contain the virus in Sweden:
    https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/s...n-intensivvard


    For those with a biological age over 80, intensive care is not required, according to the document. The same applies to people over 70 who have significant failure in more than one organ system. Persons between 60 and 70 who have failed in more than two organ systems should also be given priority.
    For example, organ failure may be about people with heart, lung, and kidney diseases. (Respiration, circulation, renal function, as stated in the document).
    The document also states that patients who are already in intensive care should be able to have the intensive care interrupted if they belong to any of the above categories.

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    Deeply unethical and misguided, may lead to significant social unrest.
    ἀταραξία

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    Quote Originally Posted by leckysupport View Post
    Deeply unethical and misguided, may lead to significant social unrest.
    And I hope it does, for the better. We are losing people dear to us and suffering the psycholgical, social and economical consequences of our lives being put in stasis. This will be a lost year and a tragic one, and people shouldn't forget who deserves standing ovations and who deserves to be led to the guillotine.

    If a virulent plague that spread uncontrollably amidst political inaction doesn't serve as the perfect incentive for people to take action, I don't know what will.
    "Lecteur, as-tu quelquefois respiré
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    Ou d'un sachet le musc invétéré?


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