How long does it take for duals to click

[BrainlessSquid]

I have seen stories of duals who have taken many months, possibly years (like some SLI-IEE), whereas in some cases like the one described by a well-adjusted photographer had a magic instant love like reaction upon meeting his dual ("I know it's strange, but I love you", he said after meeting her for the first time!). So I am asking how long does it take for duals to enter their "honeymoon phase" and to just click. I mean, when other people can notice the living nature of dual relations.
Please, tell me everything you know about it.

[lynn]

Tbh, I do think the effect of duality should be immediate, though the creative function probably plays the biggest role in getting the attention of a dual. While the initial click should be there in the beginning, it still might take a while to solidify into something more concrete (if that happens ever).

[guac]

Tbh, I do think the effect of duality should be immediate, though the creative function probably plays the biggest role in getting the attention of a dual. While the initial click should be there in the beginning, it still might take a while to solidify into something more concrete (if that happens ever).

How come? Can you elaborate?

[lynn]

How come? Can you elaborate?

I don't know, but from my experience SLE-IEI duality you can pass each other also by easily for a prolonged time, but once you activate the Fe-button (can also happen accidentally) they a) stare at you in disbelief b) suddenly creep up c) I don't understand what's going on. If you want to stay in contact you really have to smooth out the use of the creative function (e.g. your Fe does really have to match your intentions) because SLEs seem to expect certain responses, otherwise they seem to slip away again. Always felt a bit like a RPG to me where you have to choose a certain attack for efficiency lol.

[Adam Strange]

I don't know, but from my experience SLE-IEI duality you can pass each other also by easily for a prolonged time, but once you activate the Fe-button (can also happen accidentally) they a) stare at you in disbelief b) suddenly creep up c) I don't understand what's going on. If you want to stay in contact you really have to smooth out the use of the creative function (e.g. your Fe does really have to match your intentions) because SLEs seem to expect certain responses, otherwise they seem to slip away again. Always felt a bit like a RPG to me where you have to choose a certain attack for efficiency lol.

I think I do this, too. I also think that this is why I'm not attracting ESI's.

Either that, or I just assume that the ESI and I will click, which is probably too much to assume at once.

[Sol]

So I am asking how long does it take for duals to enter their "honeymoon phase" and to just click.

With good IR the irrational sympathy higher than average appears in seconds and minutes. It goes from the nonverbal.
The significant soul attraction needs more time and needs the conditions alike informal communication.
Factors besides Jung types also affect all that: for example it's easier to like pretty, smart, happier people and better when those are of other sex. Also it can be not easy to start the good communication with the dual, as those are rather different people to which behavior you may need to adopt. The relations with same club of your quadra starts easier - you understand those people quicker and it develops easier, but you'll not get so deep interest and personal use as with duals. For the comparision - conflictors - starts hard and never goes to good, except mb very hard efforts. With duals the relations should develop easier and easier after a time. Though, non-Jung types factors may break the relations in one day too. For example, duality marriage pairs may break, this just should happen more rarely than with any other IR.

If you'll understand correctly own type sometimes (which is T-I, more for Ti, but not INFJ) and types of other people near you then you'll understand how IR work. The reason why you did not still for so long time - your mistypings, where the most important is your mistake about own type. To understand correctly the types of other people IRL would help you behavioral VI, while you seem to pay too much of the attention on T speculations.

The local noobs have the same problem of big mistypings alike you and such may have issues to understand what is types and IR on practice correctly.
The classical theory says nothing clear about this, it's more about how good the close kind of relations may to be (from the point of Jung type factor).

[guac]

I don't know, but from my experience SLE-IEI duality you can pass each other also by easily for a prolonged time, but once you activate the Fe-button (can also happen accidentally) they a) stare at you in disbelief b) suddenly creep up c) I don't understand what's going on. If you want to stay in contact you really have to smooth out the use of the creative function (e.g. your Fe does really have to match your intentions) because SLEs seem to expect certain responses, otherwise they seem to slip away again. Always felt a bit like a RPG to me where you have to choose a certain attack for efficiency lol.

I see, thanks.
By "smooth out the use of the creative function" you mean that you have to use it more consistently or use it better..?
I do wish I could use my Fe more than I do currently, but i simply can't sustain it for a while before getting tired and withdrawing back to my Ni!

[Rebelondeck]

Without libido and physical attraction, there's not going to be any great revelation or sudden rapture; duals tend to simply grow on one another in a slow, almost ponderous fashion, which is counter to the romantic ideals of more than a few NFs......

a.k.a. I/O

[sbbds]

They need to just be hot and mysterious and talk to me, tbh. If they’re hot enough they don’t even need to speak LOL. I once bedded an IEI the first night we talked mostly by using google translate. Smash or gtfo, TBH. There are simply too many soyboy IEIs who don’t have any libido. They want to “connect” and “talk” first, meanwhile we are slowly dying; time is ticking. Generally, the most estrogen-filled IEI guys are the best ones for me. If they have any masculine hobbies at all, they are probably out. Too cheap and easy is also “out”. They should be like a hot pure girl who values her own virginal purity, except with a penis.

[Adam Strange]

They need to just be hot and mysterious and talk to me, tbh. If they’re hot enough they don’t even need to speak LOL. I once bedded an IEI the first night we talked mostly by using google translate. Smash or gtfo, TBH. There are simply too many soyboy IEIs who don’t have any libido. They want to “connect” and “talk” first, meanwhile we are slowly dying; time is ticking. Generally, the most estrogen-filled IEI guys are the best ones for me. If they have any masculine hobbies at all, they are probably out. Too cheap and easy is also “out”. They should be like a hot pure girl who values her own virginal purity, except with a penis.

Quoting for awesomeness.

@sbbds, you know, I have the hots for this one e6w7 ESI-Se. She is like a goddess; a hot, pure blonde athlete who values her virginal purity, and is just fucking amazing. And while she obviously likes me on some level, she also has an SLE girlfriend. Whom I am a bit jealous of.

I've tried to get closer to the ESI by just being a nice guy. That hasn't worked. I think the SLE had her number. Smash or GTFO.

Your approach: Awesome. Just awesome.

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

Sounds like smash and gtfo which is fine

[lynn]

If they’re hot enough they don’t even need to speak LOL. I once bedded an IEI the first night we talked mostly by using google translate. Smash or gtfo, TBH. There are simply too many soyboy IEIs who don’t have any libido. They want to “connect” and “talk” first, meanwhile we are slowly dying; time is ticking. Generally, the most estrogen-filled IEI guys are the best ones for me. If they have any masculine hobbies at all, they are probably out. Too cheap and easy is also “out”. They should be like a hot pure girl who values her own virginal purity, except with a penis.

These two things contradict each other, no? How's that supposed to work out?
And how do you distinguish between soyboy low libido IEI and hot pure IEI, when in reality they could look very similar and you might never find out whether they are one thing or the other, lol.

[Adam Strange]

Sounds like smash and gtfo which is fine

I insist on a kiss first. Or at least a handshake.

(Victim mentality right there, folks.)

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

I insist on a kiss first. Or at least a handshake.

(Victim mentality right there, folks.)

a handshake afterwards

[Adam Strange]

These two things contradict each other, no? How's that supposed to work out?
And how do you distinguish between soyboy low libido IEI and hot pure IEI, when in reality they could look very similar and you might never find out whether they are one thing or the other, lol.

There is a test for that. You whip it out and see if they run away.

[Adam Strange]

a handshake afterwards

Seems legit.

[xerx]

I insist on a kiss first. Or at least a handshake.

(Victim mentality right there, folks.)

Is the Coronavirus messing up your game?

[Adam Strange]

Is the Coronavirus messing up your game?

Well, I will say that meeting new women now is nearly impossible. So there is that.

My Duals are sensors and so the ones on dating sites can't get any sense of a guy outside of meeting him in real life, except in a superficial sense. That feeling of Duality does not come across at all in dating sites, and all I'm left with are the obvious differences between Duals.

There was an ESI online yesterday whose user name was dPrice. She was posing with some Louis Vuitton bling, so I could probably connect online if I pose in a suit next to a Merc, but you know, she started every sentence with "I". I think a connection on those cartoon ESI-LIE terms is not in my future. Lol.

Deep down, I need a woman who is kind. And kindness is hard to discern from a dating profile.

In any case, I really do believe in kissing first. And handshakes are just an agreement that seals the deal. An understanding between equals. A Gamma thing, perhaps.

[Aramas]

It probably depends on how dualized one is to begin with. Duals are attracted to the use of the ego block. If you tend to use your superego elements too much, you'll probably not attract them and might instead push them away. It seems like it would be easy enough to enhance your chances by knowing Socionics, but deep changes to the psyche can take longer than one might think.

The people who have the best chance are people who grew up with lots of dual influence, because the dual protected from the superego and provided positive reinforcement of the ego.

I don't think anyone is really aware of a formula. It takes as long as it takes. This isn't really something you can force, and I've heard Gulenko saying that you can't really try to force duality. It only works unconsciously.

Probably the best key I can give you is to learn who you are and try your best to be your real self. To do that, you have to relax.

As for me, I often think I'd be happier with a winning lottery ticket than a romantic relationship. The true and most perfect dual lives inside you anyway and is always there if you want to find it.
@lynn is right that the creative function is basically the key from a theoretical standpoint. It's kind of like the pivot that effectively balances the psyche with a minimum of effort.

[BrainlessSquid]

Tbh, I do think the effect of duality should be immediate, though the creative function probably plays the biggest role in getting the attention of a dual. While the initial click should be there in the beginning, it still might take a while to solidify into something more concrete (if that happens ever).

Could you explain why the creative function plays the biggest role?

[BrainlessSquid]

It probably depends on how dualized one is to begin with. Duals are attracted to the use of the ego block. If you tend to use your superego elements too much, you'll probably not attract them and might instead push them away. It seems like it would be easy enough to enhance your chances by knowing Socionics, but deep changes to the psyche can take longer than one might think.

The people who have the best chance are people who grew up with lots of dual influence, because the dual protected from the superego and provided positive reinforcement of the ego.

I don't think anyone is really aware of a formula. It takes as long as it takes. This isn't really something you can force, and I've heard Gulenko saying that you can't really try to force duality. It only works unconsciously.

Probably the best key I can give you is to learn who you are and try your best to be your real self. To do that, you have to relax.

As for me, I often think I'd be happier with a winning lottery ticket than a romantic relationship. The true and most perfect dual lives inside you anyway and is always there if you want to find it.
@lynn is right that the creative function is basically the key from a theoretical standpoint. It's kind of like the pivot that effectively balances the psyche with a minimum of effort.

I couldn't agree more

[sbbds]

These two things contradict each other, no? How's that supposed to work out?
And how do you distinguish between soyboy low libido IEI and hot pure IEI, when in reality they could look very similar and you might never find out whether they are one thing or the other, lol.

Lol that’s true lol. I guess there’s a balance and there’s a difference in what I’m looking for in long term vs short term. My preferences are fairly similar to men’s with women in terms of that. I guess what I’m saying is that soyboy low libido and hot pure basically overlap a lot of the time, and it’s hard to find the right balance, which also depends on my situation.

Basically over a long short term, more of a prude is better.

Over a super short term, a complete sloot hot virgin is best. Over super long term, a freaky, thirsty hoe with a good sense of push/pull is better.

[lynn]

Lol that’s true lol. I guess there’s a balance and there’s a difference in what I’m looking for in long term vs short term. My preferences are fairly similar to men’s with women in terms of that. I guess what I’m saying is that soyboy low libido and hot pure basically overlap a lot of the time, and it’s hard to find the right balance, which also depends on my situation.

Basically over a long short term, more of a prude is better.

Over a super short term, a complete sloot hot virgin is best. Over super long term, a freaky, thirsty hoe with a good sense of push/pull is better.

So, you choose the virgin who won't have sex before marriage for a one-night stand, and the guy who will jump into bed with you at first sight for marriage. Oh wait, he has to be still challenge and not give in so easily, right? It still sounds like your setting yourself up intentionally for some very paradoxical situations, lol.

[Dr PissBender]

It depends, with the SLI i flirt with, we got along quick af, it was strange, we both felt strange coz it was some instant click (she's soooo cute and adorable btw, Fe polr's are great). Just like with my other SLI dude bestie. BUT, it hasn't been the same with other SLI's, my third SLI bestie at first hated my guts, like, he really thought i was a jerk and wasn't shy to call me out on my bullshit, and I thought he was a jerk off piece of shit. We became partners in crime the same day.

Other SLI (or at least that person self types as that) in some FB group just seems paranoid and likes telling people i'm EIE. So I just sad react to every comment they make to fuck wid them.

[Dr PissBender]

Some SLI's are just close minded pussies tbh, not gonna lie.

[Ryan]

Lol that’s true lol. I guess there’s a balance and there’s a difference in what I’m looking for in long term vs short term. My preferences are fairly similar to men’s with women in terms of that. I guess what I’m saying is that soyboy low libido and hot pure basically overlap a lot of the time, and it’s hard to find the right balance, which also depends on my situation.

Basically over a long short term, more of a prude is better.

Over a super short term, a complete sloot hot virgin is best. Over super long term, a freaky, thirsty hoe with a good sense of push/pull is better.

So, you choose the virgin who won't have sex before marriage for a one-night stand, and the guy who will jump into bed with you at first sight for marriage. Oh wait, he has to be still challenge and not give in so easily, right? It still sounds like your setting yourself up intentionally for some very paradoxical situations, lol.

Lol.

The biggest difference between polr and suggestive, is that the suggestive balances your dual's lead function, it doesn't surrender or disregard it entirely. The base function does not allow anyone to compete with it, especially by "childlike" Super-Id suggestive function. SLEs want someone who is not easy, but you also have to be willing to play (or be conquered), otherwise it's a waste of time.

[BrainlessSquid]

With good IR the irrational sympathy higher than average appears in seconds and minutes. It goes from the nonverbal.
The significant soul attraction needs more time and needs the conditions alike informal communication.
Factors besides Jung types also affect all that: for example it's easier to like pretty, smart, happier people and better when those are of other sex. Also it can be not easy to start the good communication with the dual, as those are rather different people to which behavior you may need to adopt. The relations with same club of your quadra starts easier - you understand those people quicker and it develops easier, but you'll not get so deep interest and personal use as with duals. For the comparision - conflictors - starts hard and never goes to good, except mb very hard efforts. With duals the relations should develop easier and easier after a time. Though, non-Jung types factors may break the relations in one day too. For example, duality marriage pairs may break, this just should happen more rarely than with any other IR.

If you'll understand correctly own type sometimes (which is T-I, more for Ti, but not INFJ) and types of other people near you then you'll understand how IR work. The reason why you did not still for so long time - your mistypings, where the most important is your mistake about own type. To understand correctly the types of other people IRL would help you behavioral VI, while you seem to pay too much of the attention on T speculations.

The local noobs have the same problem of big mistypings alike you and such may have issues to understand what is types and IR on practice correctly.
The classical theory says nothing clear about this, it's more about how good the close kind of relations may to be (from the point of Jung type factor).

I'm not a thinking type. I study computer engineering/science and I have spent some time of my life working on my logic, but it is just a copy, I simply copy patterns of thought and I can't really pay attention to it, especially because my thinking is very often very unstable and hard to put into exact words. Anyway, I'm considering being a Ti PoLR actually, but I belive my Te is fair enough for me to keep working in my field though.
I appreciate that you type me as a thinking type, which I'm not

[Aramas]

I'm not a thinking type. I study computer engineering/science and I have spent some time of my life working on my logic, but it is just a copy, I simply copy patterns of thought and I can't really pay attention to it, especially because my thinking is very often very unstable and hard to put into exact words. Anyway, I'm considering being a Ti PoLR actually, but I belive my Te is fair enough for me to keep working in my field though.
I appreciate that you type me as a thinking type, which I'm not

You're doing computer engineering and science? I've heard of that, but it sounds fairly difficult lol. You do get a complete picture of what happens inside computers with that kind of combination, though.

[sbbds]

So, you choose the virgin who won't have sex before marriage for a one-night stand, and the guy who will jump into bed with you at first sight for marriage. Oh wait, he has to be still challenge and not give in so easily, right? It still sounds like your setting yourself up intentionally for some very paradoxical situations, lol.

No lol the virgin who will have sex. And then the marriage guy should be a bit less of a total ho.

Well yeah IEI guys are paradoxical.

[sbbds]

Lol.

The biggest difference between polr and suggestive, is that the suggestive balances your dual's lead function, it doesn't surrender or disregard it entirely. The base function does not allow anyone to compete with it, especially by "childlike" Super-Id suggestive function. SLEs want someone who is not easy, but you also have to be willing to play (or be conquered), otherwise it's a waste of time.

Yes that’s exactly what I mean @lynn . I don’t prefer a 100% easy hoe, but eventually they should smash or gtfo as they’d just be wasting my time otherwise, and that patience of mine and how my interest is maintained varies depending on the circumstances.

[Tallmo]

Duals can click fast if they have other factors in place. Good DCNH compatibility and Enneagram plays a huge role in my experience.

Sometimes one will click fast with non-duals or types with poor compatibility, because the factors above happen to be in place. Then the disappointment comes later, maybe after one date, when the main type is becoming more important.

[Adam Strange]

Duals can click fast if they have other factors in place. Good DCNH compatibility and Enneagram plays a huge role in my experience.

Sometimes one will click fast with non-duals or types with poor compatibility, because the factors above happen to be in place. Then the disappointment comes later, maybe after one date, when the main type is becoming more important.

Or maybe after a year or three, when things become unbearable.

[SaveYourself]

I went on a date with an SLE who spent 80% of the time pushing smash or gtfo with so much force that I was uncomfortable in his presence but then after I didn't break the whole date he was like, "good. I don't like girls who are too easy. I like a challenge" lol


on the original topic - idk if there's any guideline for time. It depends on all the external factors (maturity, culture, age, enneagram etc) and I think whether or not you're in a situation where you can demonstrate your functions enough for them to beneficial for the other person and vice versa. With LSI my own age with similar interests I think it took like sub 20 minutes to be a good conversation but I think only when it was sustained over time does it become apparent that it's deeper than just conversational compatibility

[Adam Strange]

I went on a date with an SLE who spent 80% of the time pushing smash or gtfo with so much force that I was uncomfortable in his presence but then after I didn't break the whole date he was like, "good. I don't like girls who are too easy. I like a challenge" lol


on the original topic - idk if there's any guideline for time. It depends on all the external factors (maturity, culture, age, enneagram etc) and I think whether or not you're in a situation where you can demonstrate your functions enough for them to beneficial for the other person and vice versa. With LSI my own age with similar interests I think it took like sub 20 minutes to be a good conversation but I think only when it was sustained over time does it become apparent that it's deeper than just conversational compatibility

What happens after it isn't a challenge anymore? An IEI can constantly resist, but at some point, an EIE wants to come in from the cold.

[Aramas]

I went on a date with an SLE who spent 80% of the time pushing smash or gtfo with so much force that I was uncomfortable in his presence but then after I didn't break the whole date he was like, "good. I don't like girls who are too easy. I like a challenge" lol


on the original topic - idk if there's any guideline for time. It depends on all the external factors (maturity, culture, age, enneagram etc) and I think whether or not you're in a situation where you can demonstrate your functions enough for them to beneficial for the other person and vice versa. With LSI my own age with similar interests I think it took like sub 20 minutes to be a good conversation but I think only when it was sustained over time does it become apparent that it's deeper than just conversational compatibility

Betas in general will often lie to test people.
Gammas will make a false offer you're "supposed to" reject. I've seen Betas do it too, but it's more a gamma thing.

[arigato]

I went on a date with an SLE who spent 80% of the time pushing smash or gtfo with so much force that I was uncomfortable in his presence but then after I didn't break the whole date he was like, "good. I don't like girls who are too easy. I like a challenge" lol


on the original topic - idk if there's any guideline for time. It depends on all the external factors (maturity, culture, age, enneagram etc) and I think whether or not you're in a situation where you can demonstrate your functions enough for them to beneficial for the other person and vice versa. With LSI my own age with similar interests I think it took like sub 20 minutes to be a good conversation but I think only when it was sustained over time does it become apparent that it's deeper than just conversational compatibility

LMAO. This is usually the moment it clicks with SLEs that I'm their dual. When their player schtick doesn't work because I'm completely passive to it. They will be really forward and I will pull back and then there's a moment of realization and shift in their behaviour.

But yeah there isn't a set time frame for duality to click. Some people seem to not even be that attracted to their duals for whatever reason. Looking back on everyone I so much as had a crush on throughout my life they were all duals except for one activity relation. So the duality theory was just explaining something I always felt. But some people discover socionics and find out their dual is someone they never would've considered dating otherwise. For people like that duality might never click unless you literally explain the theory to them. I also remember Gulenko saying that when people are doing well in life with minimal problems they are attracted to people in the same club as them but when they're struggling they're more attracted to the opposite club. So people have to have a need for their dual in order for it to "click".

[guac]

Looking back on everyone I so much as had a crush on throughout my life they were all duals except for one activity relation. So the duality theory was just explaining something I always felt.

Same here LOL.
I'm always attracted to the same kind of guys (my duals). And one big silly reason why I like Socionics a lot is because it's this whole scientific thing telling me, hey those types of dudes you always like, you guys are kinda actually great for each other- it's not just your imagination

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

hmm for me it can take like 3-ish years to feel deep click-y feelings that aren't superficial. Trust is built slowly over time or something... and even still then, it can be broken so easily. =/

I said this before but - i am kind of unsure/insecure of my Fi relations with people. I need Fe feedback to know where that thing stands or something... tho I also realize this type of thing makes it easy to manipulate me in love or whatever so I mostly just keep my distance instead lol. I don't 'instantly know' or fall in deep love with somebody all that easily really... I get these crushes on people, that feel safe because I know they won't work lol.

[SaveYourself]

What happens after it isn't a challenge anymore? An IEI can constantly resist, but at some point, an EIE wants to come in from the cold.

Didn't stick around longer than this date to find out.

I can't speak for SLE + EIE vs SLE + IEI vs xSI + EIE generally but in this specific case, he was way too overpowering for me. It felt like a barrage and wasn't fun to resist. I guess I was expecting for him to push forward, me to resist / challenge, him to pull back and then earn the right to push forward again in a sort of 2 steps forward, one step back dance. I found xSI to do this but this SLE guy was just consistently pushing forward so I never felt comfortable in submitting.

[Adam Strange]

Didn't stick around longer than this date to find out.

I can't speak for SLE + EIE vs SLE + IEI vs xSI + EIE generally but in this specific case, he was way too overpowering for me. It felt like a barrage and wasn't fun to resist. I guess I was expecting for him to push forward, me to resist / challenge, him to pull back and then earn the right to push forward again in a sort of 2 steps forward, one step back dance. I found xSI to do this but this SLE guy was just consistently pushing forward so I never felt comfortable in submitting.

This is a good description of how I felt when first dating the LSI. The two steps forward, one step back thing, that is.

I think we connected because I was dampening my normal level of advances. I was relatively new to Socionics and had identified her as an Aggressor LSI, and I assumed that she would be filtering for Victim behavior, so I acted intellectually interested but sexually passive. On the second or third date, she just couldn’t stop herself and jumped me. At that point, I stopped pretending and jumped her back. She later told me that things happened too fast; she hadn’t been planning to get intimate until the fourth or fifth date.

Everyone is filtering for the behavior that their dual does naturally. Too much or too little means they are not the one.


This “filtering” business also filters out Duals who are either too unaware or too eager and desperate. In her description of ENTj-ISFj Duality, Stratiyevskaya mentions something about watching out for Duals who are unhealthy and who don’t act like LIE’s, although in her description, the deviation came in the form of the LIE exploiting the ESI’s financial resources.

Exploiting an ESI's financial resources is something that I really can't imagine, but maybe that's good. It means I have one less area to work on.