Most Common ITR in DV/Abusive Relationships? [TRIGGER WARNING]

[calm]

Lately I've been watching a lot of crimes of passion shows and exploring the theme of domestic violence.
While I watch these shows I tend to type the people involved in these relationships and trying to figure out what ITR they have with each other.
Can anyone share stories of either their own or others abusive/DV relationships and their sociotypes?
Maybe we can find a common theme/functionally break down what the irritants are that cause the issues.
I know that abusers will abuse no matter which ITR they're in, please keep your answers constructive.
I included a trigger warning just in case.

[Adam Strange]

I believe that abuse is not type-related, but stories are always fun.

Abuse might be related to a general tendency towards violence, which has been shown to correlate with levels of lead in the blood. But there could be additional factors.

[calm]

I believe that abuse is not type-related, but stories are always fun.

Abuse might be related to a general tendency towards violence, which has been shown to correlate with levels of lead in the blood. But there could be additional factors.

I don't think it's type-related but I do think it's more prevalent in some inter-type relationships than others.
For example I know a supervisor woman who physically abuses her supervisee husband

[Adam Strange]

I don't think it's type-related but I do think it's more prevalent in some inter-type relationships than others.
For example I know a supervisor woman who physically abuses her supervisee husband

I had an LSI GF after my divorce from my Supervisor ex-wife, and the LSI said that she thought the SLI was abusive towards me. IDK, I put aside most of my feelings most of the time. I will say that my ex could be frustrating.

[Dr PissBender]

I had an LSI GF after my divorce from my Supervisor ex-wife, and the LSI said that she thought the SLI was abusive towards me. IDK, I put aside most of my feelings most of the time. I will say that my ex could be frustrating.

Kinda wanna be abused by your ex wife now

[Adam Strange]

Once you are in an abusive relationship, there is a tendency to seek out the familiar in other relationships.

My LSE sister married an IEI Conflictor to get her fair share of abuse. He doesn’t seem to care about her, or even like her. But my sister is living a dream of love, and he is being supported by her, so they have reached a compromise.

My LII sister married an LSE (Mirage). She says that he is emotionally crippled (compared to an ESFJ, well, yeah), but the sex was good. Until he decided to punish her for not being an EII and stopped having sex with her. That was five years ago. I’d call that abuse. He also ran up some incredible debts, so if they split the assets which are actually debts, then she’d be broke forever trying to pay her half without his income. So let’s add manipulation to abuse.

[Adam Strange]

Ok, I’ll start. My mother is LSE and she abused all three of her kids. Physical abuse. Punching us in the face stuff. Me, LIE and Kindred, my sister, LSE and her Identical, and my other sister, LII and her Mirage. She was also mean to my dog, but I don’t know his type. She wasn’t that thrilled with her SLI Mirror husband, either.

I can say that her abuse has had a Socionics effect. I am reactively wary of LSE’s.

[calm]

Ok, I’ll start. My mother is LSE and she abused all three of her kids. Physical abuse. Punching us in the face stuff. Me, LIE and Kindred, my sister, LSE and her Identical, and my other sister, LII and her Mirage. She was also mean to my dog, but I don’t know his type. She wasn’t that thrilled with her SLI Mirror husband, either.

I can say that her abuse has had a Socionics effect. I am reactively wary of LSE’s.

I grew up with mirror LSE/SLI parents also. Hated it. I witnessed 0 love and affection between them, they're like cold robots. Anyways, when we were kids LSE used to physically abuse SLI on occasion but they've tapered down considerably to short verbal outbursts.

[Alonzo]

I've been slapped, punched, kicked, and hit with all kinds of things by a dual or two or three that (understandably though wrongfully) thought I was cheating on them. But, at the time, I never really saw it as abuse because 1.) I wasn't actually hurt or scared; I'm much bigger/stronger than they are and didn't feel powerless, 2.) have ties to a culture where expressed anger and "getting physical" is somewhat normative, 3.) theoretically, duality allegedly orients us towards sympathy, forgiveness and looking past grievances big and small, and 4.) my Quadra, in part due to valuing Se (the show of will and force) that acts based on valued Fi (deep conviction), is predisposed to various forms of power displays and "turn up," according to Strat >

Gamma Quadra types (especially, sensing ones, SEE and ESI) immediately lose control over themselves and will undertake anything to destroy their tormentor both morally and physically. (Such abuse Gamma types won't forgive to anyone!) Gamma Quadra will put to use all of their resources, all the materials at hand (up to sharp or cutting objects), but won't let the offender get away unpunished. The desire to put one's fists to use and beat the tormentor to death (or even tear him apart with bare hands) in such moments is overwhelming, thus the attack may be very brutal and fast.

All things considered, I'd think duality (followed by other more cognitively compatible IRs [most likely intra quadra ITR]) might present a situation where one is inclined to stay in an abusive relationship. My parents (SEE and LIE) were rather mentally and verbally abusive towards each other and to a lesser extent, me, as far as placing me in dangerous situations (allegedly for my betterment) that were grossly inappropriate for a child. What makes me think that cognitive compatibility is key towards healing, or at the very least, tolerating certain types of seemingly untreatable wounds is that we all still loved and constantly forgave each other. For a long time, and certainly before learning about Socionics, it was hard for me to reconcile the affection I was able maintain for those who objectively did me wrong and caused much harm--I almost felt as if I were being weak and dumb because I didn't definitively cut them off. But, in addition to the role my wonky Fi played (by either not valuing a relationship whatsoever or hyper valuing it to my detriment), the common denominator in my acceptance and forgiveness of abuse was a highly favorable, compatible IR, especially towards those within my own Quadra.

Theoretically, it makes sense that those sharing the same or similar function stacking and strength (identity and mirror) might possess more empathy and sympathy towards the expression of certain shared thought patterns and behaviors (maladaptive or otherwise) and those who are strong where their partners are weak (activity and duality) might hold more subconscious sway over each other's vulnerable judgment and perception functions, thereby causing confusion, dependence, complacency and indulgence where perhaps there shouldn't be.

[FreelancePoliceman]

Huh, I never pegged ESIs as a type likely to be violent.

[Adam Strange]

Huh, I never pegged ESIs as a type likely to be violent.

@FreelancePoliceman, I’ve never encountered a violent ESI, but I haven’t had one as an actual GF. Still, it’s hard to imagine them being violent. Mad, yes. Angry, yes. But I imagine them stomping off in a huff, rather than taking a swing at a person.

[FreelancePoliceman]

@FreelancePoliceman, I’ve never encountered a violent ESI, but I haven’t had one as an actual GF. Still, it’s hard to imagine them being violent. Mad, yes. Angry, yes. But I imagine them stomping off in a huff, rather than taking a swing at a person.

Same here.

[Alonzo]

Huh, I never pegged ESIs as a type likely to be violent.

@FreelancePoliceman, I’ve never encountered a violent ESI, but I haven’t had one as an actual GF. Still, it’s hard to imagine them being violent. Mad, yes. Angry, yes. But I imagine them stomping off in a huff, rather than taking a swing at a person.

Unless you subscribe to some notion of Se I'm unfamiliar with, I don't see at all how it's hard to imagine an ESI (with strong, valued, 3D Se) becoming violent. I'm not talking about the manifestation of Se at the social level, as it pertains to accomplishing goals or diligently performing tasks, but at the physical level. The definitions of Se I adhere to are those that describe it as the mobilization of force/direct action, willfully applying pressure/willingness to confront, corporeal confidence and awareness of not only one's own ability to manifest adequate force but adeptly gauging that in others/weighing the kinetic energy of objects, etc.... The ass beaters of the world tend to excel in this area. Combine that with the weight of one's potent, deep conviction/feeling and/or defending their core principles (Fi), and it shouldn't be hard to see how Fi/Se could come together as a scary, powerful weapon.

IME, ESIs don't often wantonly throw their weight around in a pugilistic manner or provoke confrontation for the sake of, but if they're acting "defensively," as in standing up for something/someone they believe in or acting based on pure subjective emotion in the moment, that could very well manifest as a physical rebuff. Although I'd say that sub type matters (ESI-Se is more likely to "lay hands"), all manner of ESI and strong Se valuers by extension have the immediate wherewithal to be physically threatening/confrontational if so inclined.

[FDG]

Huh, I never pegged ESIs as a type likely to be violent.

south american ESI-Se yeah could be violent

[Hope]

south american ESI-Se yeah could be violent

that's racism.

[Adam Strange]

that's racism.

Wouldn't that be continent-ism?

I think I know what FDG meant, though. I spent some time in Argentina and Brazil and Chile and the societies there are different from the States. Not radically different, but different.

Like the difference between: a John Ford western and a Sergio Leone western.

[Hope]

Wouldn't that be continent-ism?

I think I know what FDG meant, though. I spent some time in Argentina and Brazil and Chile and the societies there are different from the States. Not radically different, but different.

Like the difference between: a John Ford western and a Sergio Leone western.

Why a south american ESI could be violent and some european or north american could not? Because of their race or culture? There are peaceful or violent ppl in every country and culture.

@Shytan, IMO, you nailed it. The SLI is always a day late and a mile away but is very, very faithful, while the IEE is like

that's typism. There are faithful and unfaithful ppl from all the types.

[FDG]

that's racism.

No that's regionalism, racism would be "black Esi-Se could be violent".

[Hope]

No that's regionalism, racism would be "black Esi-Se could be violent".

You and @Adam Strange are both wrong. Racism is not limited to skin color or genetics, it includes ethnical and cultural discrimination.

Racism is the belief that groups of humans possess different behavioral traits corresponding to physical appearance and can be divided based on the superiority of one race over another. It may also mean prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against other people because they are of a different race or ethnicity.

Cultural racism exists when there is a widespread acceptance of stereotypes concerning different ethnic or population groups.

An ethnic group or ethnicity is a category of people who identify with each other, usually on the basis of presumed similarities such as common language, ancestry, history, society, culture, nation or social treatment within their residing area.

[Kill4Me]

Huh, I never pegged ESIs as a type likely to be violent.

I destroyed that notion years ago...

actually "ESIs as a type not likely to be violent" was never really a notion aside from, just every now and then, somebody (typically a newcomer) who doesn't know North from South and actually takes the quadra values mythology seriously comes out of the woodwork with it.

Idea that betas are only violent is born out of a one typology closed mindset echoing the quadra values mythology.

quadra values is a relic of the past. just about nobody uses it anymore (even if they say they do), which kind of makes your 'notion' sound, well, obsolete...

[sbbds]

I destroyed that notion years ago...

actually "ESIs as a type not likely to be violent" was never really a notion aside from, just every now and then, somebody (typically a newcomer) who doesn't know North from South and actually takes the quadra values mythology seriously comes out of the woodwork with it.

Idea that betas are only violent is born out of a one typology closed mindset echoing the quadra values mythology.

quadra values is a relic of the past. just about nobody uses it anymore (even if they say they do), which kind of makes your 'notion' sound, well, obsolete...

You say this, yet your username is Kill4Me, you talk like a gangster, and your avatar is of iced up grillz.

[calm]

Chris Brown is an SEE and Rihanna is an ESI.
When I learned that it became easy to see how a typical Mirror argument blow up turned physical that way.
I began to notice a trend of Se valuing mirrors getting physical when fighting but especially base and creative Se.

[Shytan]

Chris Brown is an SEE and Rihanna is an ESI.
When I learned that it became easy to see how a typical Mirror argument blow up turned physical that way.
I began to notice a trend of Se valuing mirrors getting physical when fighting but especially base and creative Se.

Ive had two boyfriends who are my mirrors, IEE, and both have gotten physically violent with me when they got really drunk.

[The Reality Denialist]

The creative function stays well hidden in public if it harms keeping up with ethics of relations in case of ESI.

It seems that when Se creatives loose it they'll do it domestically.

Some of them really seem hot headed even if you look at media coverage in case they are under the lens of reporters [lots of IEE's in that field].

Quite funny is that Se bases might not have such problems at all as in domestic sphere.

[YXPR]

I was actually going to say that ESI is the most violent type in my opinion. But that's only based on my experienced. My brother is ESI and he has the quickest temper which often translates into verbal or physical violence. .I knew a ESI girl who would get angry and throw stuff at her friends or boyfriend. One day at a party she just started throwing plates against the wall.

Of all my life, 3 people have tried to get physical with me (that I can remember of at least). 2 of them were ESI and one of them was LSE (he was my coworker lol)

[Aramas]

It could be that there's a trend in the formation of an abuser, rather than the abuse resulting from the relationship between the abuser and the victim. I've noticed that people with supervisor parents can be abusive, even to their duals.

Really though, there are too many mean assholes in the world for Socionics to explain all of them.

It's probably better to think of cruelty as a contagious thing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_contagion

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_contagion

[Hope]

It could be that there's a trend in the formation of an abuser, rather than the abuse resulting from the relationship between the abuser and the victim. I've noticed that people with supervisor parents can be abusive, even to their duals.

Really though, there are too many mean assholes in the world for Socionics to explain all of them.

It's probably better to think of cruelty as a contagious thing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_contagion

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_contagion

I've supervisor mother and I'm not abusive. My mom is rather sweet and accepting of her kids. I used to react poorly to some of her comments but I try to have patience now. Though, I know an IEI with supervisee and conflict parents and she's rather abusive.

[Aramas]

I've supervisor mother and I'm not abusive. My mom is rather sweet and accepting of her kids. I used to react poorly to some of her comments but I try to have patience now. Though, I know an IEI with supervisee and conflict parents and she's rather abusive.

Does she have two sets of parents?

I have to assume you're typing everyone accurately here to accept the ITRs you're mentioning. It does seem like there's variation in what happens. I've known a couple examples of ESI-SLE parental supervision. One SLE turned out fairly well while the other destroyed or tried to destroy everyone he got close to it seemed like. Both were cases of ESI mother SLE son. There was a difference in observed intelligence: one could read while the other had major issues with reading. I didn't get to know the SLE who turned out fairly well all that well though, so maybe he had a bad side I didn't know about lol. They both seemed to have relationship problems, but he still seemed a lot more innocent.

Maybe things like this are cases of ITR + chance pushing things over the edge. Idk. The SLE with major issues seemed like he was much more sure of himself though. It was difficult to tell if he was doing something because he was misinterpreting people's behavior or because he just felt like being mean. Maybe it was a mix of the two. His best friend was fairly similar to him in character and life outcome. They both held the title of "worst people I've ever known."

There was a funny connection between them though. He couldn't read, and his best friend could do nothing but read --and talk. The SLE seemed like he worshipped the ground the other guy walked on but they fought and criticized each other at times. The friend thought he was better than everyone he met, but hid his personal attitudes very well. They both did a good job of generally making people think they were something other than what they were. The truth only came out in close proximity to them for many people.

And yeah I've known a few IEI women who were up to no good and loved messing with people. SLEs and IEIs often seem to share that trait if they "go bad" so to speak. Driving people nuts, instigating, provoking. etc. A lot of what they do revolves around threats, ultimatums, subtly crossing boundaries to get people to react to them in certain ways.

"Abusive" is also a relative term. I imagine what a Beta and Delta find to be abusive is different. But it also seems like whenever I've found a more troublesome SLE or IEI, they seem at times to fully realize themselves as being such and are totally fine with it.

[Hope]

Does she have two sets of parents?

one is her supervisee and the other one her conflictor.

I have to assume you're typing everyone accurately here to accept the ITRs you're mentioning.

I could use the same argument about what you are describing.

It could be that there's a trend in the formation of an abuser, rather than the abuse resulting from the relationship between the abuser and the victim.I've noticed that people with supervisor parents can be abusive, even to their duals.

for saying that something is a trend it should be based in the observation of many supervision parental relations from different types.

Really though, there are too many mean assholes in the world for Socionics to explain all of them.

true

[arigato]

It could be that there's a trend in the formation of an abuser, rather than the abuse resulting from the relationship between the abuser and the victim. I've noticed that people with supervisor parents can be abusive, even to their duals.

I've supervisor mother and I'm not abusive. My mom is rather sweet and accepting of her kids. I used to react poorly to some of her comments but I try to have patience now. Though, I know an IEI with supervisee and conflict parents and she's rather abusive.

I think what you might be noticing is that people who grew up with negative relationships with their parents tend to not be well-adjusted and are more likely to have unhealthy relationships later on life. In this case ESEs tend to be naturally maternal whereas LIEs and LSEs are not the most nurturing types (especially to someone with Te polr) so I can see how that could cause damage for an IEI. But I don't think being abusive is type related because anyone can grow up troubled depending on their circumstances.

[sullutac]

youd think theoretically id would be supervision. especially since a potential abusive person is much more likely to get triggered by something out of line if it's related to their leading function. so, say an SEI does something stupid with taxes for example and it pisses off their spouse whos LSE. the LSE would get more pissed off than if they'd married an LIE instead whos less likely to mess up in the same way.
sure, the LIE LSE pairing might still have a slightly abusive relationship because the LSE would inherently be a bad person, but would it be as bad if theyd married the SEI?

[The Reality Denialist]

youd think theoretically id would be supervision. especially since a potential abusive person is much more likely to get triggered by something out of line if it's related to their leading function. so, say an SEI does something stupid with taxes for example and it pisses off their spouse whos LSE. the LSE would get more pissed off than if they'd married an LIE instead whos less likely to mess up in the same way.
sure, the LIE LSE pairing might still have a slightly abusive relationship because the LSE would inherently be a bad person, but would it be as bad if theyd married the SEI?

Playing with taxes is more LIE (and even SLE) sort of stuff and IEI's would be the target. In fact many LSE's might see problems when it comes to using taxation as some sort of playground.

[sullutac]

Playing with taxes is more LIE (and even SLE) sort of stuff and IEI's would be the target. In fact many LSE's might see problems when it comes to using taxation as some sort of playground.

yeah the LSE i know is too conservative and worried about losing money to do that. also she thinks it's immoral. but i meant like the SEI would mess up with filing them in my example

[Disturbed]

My guess is that ESI, SEE-Se, and LSI-Ti are the most violent in domestic relationships.

Kimberly Kane is an ILE-Ti, and she was violent towards a man who was in several videos with her. Sometimes I wonder if she's a psychopath although my guess is that she's not since she seems to have more need to actually be dominant and to have interpersonal control than psychopaths would; she's so strong, so smart, so beautiful, so great, so perfect.

I have an EIE-Ni female cousin and she was violent one time towards her SLE husband (she threw a remote controller at him).

I saw a photo of an IEE hit his SLE ex-girlfriend.

[Hope]

I've seen supervisees also being kinda abusive towards supervisors.

[Northstar]

Adam’s observations on IEE match well with mine and it’s interesting to have more insights on how the SLI duality might work. I have sometimes heard SLI/IEE duality conversations in real life and started getting bored to death myself. Any conversations I have with IEE tend to be very short and practical, it seems the IEE can foresee the impending conflict and keeps them short to avoid damaging relations (keeping a lot of relations alive and on their target level is what they devote much effort to).

[Dr PissBender]

Adam’s observations on IEE match well with mine and it’s interesting to have more insights on how the SLI duality might work. I have sometimes heard SLI/IEE duality conversations in real life and started getting bored to death myself. Any conversations I have with IEE tend to be very short and practical, it seems the IEE can foresee the impending conflict and keeps them short to avoid conflict that would damage relations (keeping a lot of relations alive and on their target level is what they devote much effort to).

Yes! Life is an ethical chess game for me. I keep people under my strings on purpose to serve my own greater goal!

[Northstar]

Yes! Life is an ethical chess game for me. I keep people under my strings on purpose to serve my own greater goal!

To me it seems more like a pursuit of ever-changing whims and short-term goals, though often aligned with more or less permanent central interests. But yes, "hoarding" useful people and developing positive relations (including doing simple practical favors) for future benefit seems to be an instinctive trait.

[Dr PissBender]

To me it seems more like a pursuit of ever-changing whims and short-term goals, though often aligned with more or less permanent central interests. But yes, "hoarding" useful people and developing positive relations (including doing simple practical favors) for future benefit seems to be an instinctive trait.

Exactly. I love we can share practical conversations by the way. I've seen other betas get offended fast by shit I say. You're different, I like you.

[Rebelondeck]

The potential to become an abuser is independent of type, and hence, ITR. Most are capable of abusing or taking unfair advantage to varying degrees, but usually when they're convinced that they will get away with it. Chronic physical/emotional abusers have psychological issues: abuse/neglect will often beget an abuser, and a few of every type are simply born evil.....

a.k.a. I/O