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Thread: Attacks on the Point of Least Resistance (PoLR)

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    Default Attacks on the Point of Least Resistance (PoLR)

    Has anyone experienced this? As Fi polr when a friend or someone I'm close to do something that makes me feel unsure of the state of our relationship I feel really uneasy and uncomfortable. Does anyone know how to deal with your weakest function effectively?

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    In terms of conflictor: because you analyzed your relations you don't have those. To me this is just stupid not real hit at all.

    In terms of supervisor: **shrinks**. OK, this was bad but you misunderstood me and I do not treat people based on whether they are logically right or wrong in the end even if I say something as things can be adapted.
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    Yeah, kinda do with Si. When somebody points out that clothing doesn't fit me right or something else about me looks weird, I want them to tell me how to fix it because I'm not even sure what's wrong or how it got that way to begin with. That or I call them a dandy and try to brush it off. Very fickle responses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hux View Post
    Has anyone experienced this? As Fi polr when a friend or someone I'm close to do something that makes me feel unsure of the state of our relationship I feel really uneasy and uncomfortable. Does anyone know how to deal with your weakest function effectively?
    When you expose yourself to life you get polr hits. Just accept them and you will learn how to deal with it. If you avoid polr hits altogether you will not learn and if you get too exposed you will not be able to take it. So moderate exposure is best.
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)


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    Agree with @Tallmo . Another reason to get used to living with a bit of unease with it and having a manageable weakness of some sort (which you can still actively work on, by the way), is that you may become cringe-worthy with overdoing HA in a frantic attempt at overcompensation.

    As another SLE, I actually recommend building internal solidarity through getting in the habit of taking actions that align with what feels right to you. You will know and feel more confident that you can do it over time. People who are right for you and who treat you appropriately and give you sufficient communication for how close you are, will gravitate towards you because of that. I think it's essential for everyone, but especially for Fi polrs, to have a core group of people who they can feel an inherent sense of comfort and trust with. You can then use those relationships as a standard. Ignore the rest of the interactions, because people who aren't close with you will be more fickle by definition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    have a core group of people who they can feel an inherent sense of comfort and trust with. You can then use those relationships as a standard. Ignore the rest of the interactions, because people who aren't close with you will be more fickle by definition.
    That's very true, normally I just treat most people as shallow acquaintances since it is pretty hard to establish close relationships.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    When you expose yourself to life you get polr hits. Just accept them and you will learn how to deal with it. If you avoid polr hits altogether you will not learn and if you get too exposed you will not be able to take it. So moderate exposure is best.
    Ahhhhhh. The hard truth. >~<

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    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hux View Post
    That's very true, normally I just treat most people as shallow acquaintances since it is pretty hard to establish close relationships.
    If you already have some close relationships then that's great! You're set then, right? You can work on deepening those until you're completely comfortable and would trust them with your life, IMO. Is there anything that's holding you back still?

    Feel free to get into more detail. I am a female SLE, who is possibly older and likely more experienced with emotions than you because of it, and want to help. It can be difficult for guys (I'm assuming you are one?) to feel close to other people as easily as girls can, especially, in our culture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Agree with @Tallmo . Another reason to get used to living with a bit of unease with it and having a manageable weakness of some sort (which you can still actively work on, by the way), is that you may become cringe-worthy with overdoing HA in a frantic attempt at overcompensation.

    As another SLE, I actually recommend building internal solidarity through getting in the habit of taking actions that align with what feels right to you. You will know and feel more confident that you can do it over time. People who are right for you and who treat you appropriately and give you sufficient communication for how close you are, will gravitate towards you because of that. I think it's essential for everyone, but especially for Fi polrs, to have a core group of people who they can feel an inherent sense of comfort and trust with. You can then use those relationships as a standard. Ignore the rest of the interactions, because people who aren't close with you will be more fickle by definition.
    See, that's the kind of thing that struck me as so incredibly obvious that it wouldn't have been worth saying. Sometimes Identicals definitely do a much better job of helping each other.
    Reason is a whore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    If you already have some close relationships then that's great! You're set then, right? You can work on deepening those until you're completely comfortable and would trust them with your life, IMO. Is there anything that's holding you back still?

    Feel free to get into more detail. I am a female SLE, who is possibly older and likely more experienced with emotions than you because of it, and want to help. It can be difficult for guys (I'm assuming you are one?) to feel close to other people as easily as girls can, especially, in our culture.
    Thank you! I'm actually female as well haha. Right now I don't really have those, in school it's just two slightly closer friends (EIE and LSI most likely) but we aren't as close as the friends I used to have. My current closest friend is online, eeeeek. What do you think about online friends?

    What's holding me back is 1) EIE is from another class, we can't interact often, it won't benefit much and 2) with LSI we usually talk about less emotional stuff. It's not as easy to emotionally open up, since she doesn't as well.
    Hmm... in girl culture it can be hard to fit in, sometimes. What are some of your experiences?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hux View Post
    Thank you! I'm actually female as well haha. Right now I don't really have those, in school it's just two slightly closer friends (EIE and LSI most likely) but we aren't as close as the friends I used to have. My current closest friend is online, eeeeek. What do you think about online friends?

    What's holding me back is 1) EIE is from another class, we can't interact often, it won't benefit much and 2) with LSI we usually talk about less emotional stuff. It's not as easy to emotionally open up, since she doesn't as well.
    Hmm... in girl culture it can be hard to fit in, sometimes. What are some of your experiences?
    Is there anyone who you feel like you could turn to in times of need or stress really, such as family members?

    Personally I think I would not be able to be completely fulfilled if I only had close friends online, but then again I am probably slightly older than you at least, which is light years in internet time.

    I agree that it can be hard to fit in as a girl with Fi polr lol.

    Also, personally, I have not had any very close long term friendships with EIEs or LSIs. My closest friends are SEE, LIE, IEI, ILE, ILI, SLE, maybe LII and SEI kind of. I have been close to EIEs and LSIs at times but it hasn't been terribly consistent. For some reason with those two types I always remain distant in a way even if we "get" each other and feel close when we do interact.

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    + What Te-PoLR hits looks like for me:

    For eg: An LIE acquaintance was looking for extra info on train ticket refunds. They asked me about some unusual case.

    I basically rarely ever think about these kinds of practicalities unless there is an immediate need. So:
    a/ it's 50:50 whether I have that info in storage somewhere,
    b/ my info will be limited to my particular case or the principles I gleaned at the time,
    c/ I don't have much practice thinking through the chains of consequences for this stuff. I can do it, but it's grainy bootleg 70s footage and may miss some major potential problems.

    I'm perfectly capable of planning train journeys and getting refunds, I just don't... think about it, or plan how to MaXimISe dA mOnEy. I just don't, because my method is to throw something together that doesn't seem too expensive and gets me from A to B, and then leave it at 'good enough.' I make sketches, not oil portraits.

    So, being put on the spot, my instinct is to briefly sift through my bank of experience, make an educated sketch of some principles that might help make the decision and spit that out. However, my sketch is not that high-res unless I've needed to deal with the problem a lot, and it usually doesn't have much to add compared to a Te-ego's efficient sift through that same info. So it feels a bit pointless, and sometimes I abbreviate the whole thing to a vague confused shrug.

    I don't feel too bad about it*, but it's pretty clear that I have little to contribute to the topic -- in the form of information useful/detailed enough for them -- and that I'm frankly not going to make an effort to improve significantly. My daily trains of thoughts just don't naturally range in that area, and I have limited interest in studying The Art Of Logistics, useful as it may be. My occasional mistakes feel like an acceptable price to pay.

    It's worth noting I definitely catch physical details that the LIE misses ('cause their hyper-efficiency doesn't pay attention to where the jar of salt went), so that balances things out a bit.

    *sometimes a bit self-conscious about being out of my depth, for sure, or feeling like a 'comparatively incompetent person'
    Reason is a whore.

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    "Get a job"

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Is there anyone who you feel like you could turn to in times of need or stress really, such as family members?

    Personally I think I would not be able to be completely fulfilled if I only had close friends online, but then again I am probably slightly older than you at least, which is light years in internet time.

    I agree that it can be hard to fit in as a girl with Fi polr lol.

    Also, personally, I have not had any very close long term friendships with EIEs or LSIs. My closest friends are SEE, LIE, IEI, ILE, ILI, SLE, maybe LII and SEI kind of. I have been close to EIEs and LSIs at times but it hasn't been terribly consistent. For some reason with those two types I always remain distant in a way even if we "get" each other and feel close when we do interact.
    Well, sometimes it's my mum, but she doesn't seem to understand much, so I'm not exactly comfortable talking about it. Good for emotional comfort, though it comes with the price of her asking what's wrong. Usually I just vent somewhere and try to think of solutions with my friends.

    I see. What's your age? I bet you're almost twice of mine

    Interesting, I feel the same way. We can understand each other well, but there's not really a "flow", if you get what I mean. I normally have flows with Ixxps, especially the Fe valuing ones. But unfortunately I lost some of those friends. shrugs

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    Quote Originally Posted by xXdedXx View Post
    "Get a job"
    Get a life!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hux View Post
    Well, sometimes it's my mum, but she doesn't seem to understand much, so I'm not exactly comfortable talking about it. Good for emotional comfort, though it comes with the price of her asking what's wrong. Usually I just vent somewhere and try to think of solutions with my friends.

    I see. What's your age? I bet you're almost twice of mine

    Interesting, I feel the same way. We can understand each other well, but there's not really a "flow", if you get what I mean. I normally have flows with Ixxps, especially the Fe valuing ones. But unfortunately I lost some of those friends. shrugs
    I absolutely don't feel any (or much, to constitute turning to them for support of any kind) emotional solidarity with my family members. If you can say "sometimes" to your mom, then I'm guessing you have a somewhat more solid foundation with your Fi intrinsically, compared to me actually.

    I'm in my mid 20s.

    It might be worth thinking about what exactly you're looking for or need from people, or what specific behaviors from people make you feel insecure about your relationship with them, in any case. Just an idea for starting the brainstorming process.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    I absolutely don't feel any (or much, to constitute turning to them for support of any kind) emotional solidarity with my family members. If you can say "sometimes" to your mom, then I'm guessing you have a somewhat more solid foundation with your Fi intrinsically, compared to me actually.

    I'm in my mid 20s.

    It might be worth thinking about what exactly you're looking for or need from people, or what specific behaviors from people make you feel insecure about your relationship with them, in any case. Just an idea for starting the brainstorming process.
    Ah, upbringing influences it a little as well I'd say. Yep, I tried to start noticing what helps me emotionally and what doesn't, to eliminate some of my "polr hits" xD But I don't think I did it intentionally here. I just saw my mum as a good source of comfort.

    Guessed it! You're almost twice my age.

    I think I know that, answering questionnaires and learning about Socionics pretty much developed my self awareness haha. I talked about that in my type me thread a little, basically uncertainty in relationships and where I stand with them can cause quite a bit of insecurity, especially when the person doesn't show anything that I can deduce.

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    Nobody really knows what they’re doing at that age, even ethical types... so I’d keep that in mind. @Hux

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    I feel 'attacked' when Fe types use emotional and verbal violence. Also when ppl ask Fe from me.

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    @sbbds I think I'm pretty aware... but we shall see.

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    Shortcomings in one's information processing system will always be and there's no getting around it; they have to be accepted so as not to diminish one's strengths. In any conflict, one must expect that one's weak points will be attacked but hopefully not by oneself. If counterattack is chosen then opponents' weaknesses will likely be assaulted and escalation usually ensues. People who have accepted their own weaknesses are in better positions to mitigate conflict and self-doubt. Mistakes can be dealt with but weaknesses in processing require workarounds because they aren't like muscles that can be strengthened; they're permanent gaps in you abilities and defences.......

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by GuavaDrunk View Post
    + What Te-PoLR hits looks like for me:

    For eg: An LIE acquaintance was looking for extra info on train ticket refunds. They asked me about some unusual case.

    I basically rarely ever think about these kinds of practicalities unless there is an immediate need. So:
    a/ it's 50:50 whether I have that info in storage somewhere,
    b/ my info will be limited to my particular case or the principles I gleaned at the time,
    c/ I don't have much practice thinking through the chains of consequences for this stuff. I can do it, but it's grainy bootleg 70s footage and may miss some major potential problems.

    I'm perfectly capable of planning train journeys and getting refunds, I just don't... think about it, or plan how to MaXimISe dA mOnEy. I just don't, because my method is to throw something together that doesn't seem too expensive and gets me from A to B, and then leave it at 'good enough.' I make sketches, not oil portraits.

    So, being put on the spot, my instinct is to briefly sift through my bank of experience, make an educated sketch of some principles that might help make the decision and spit that out. However, my sketch is not that high-res unless I've needed to deal with the problem a lot, and it usually doesn't have much to add compared to a Te-ego's efficient sift through that same info. So it feels a bit pointless, and sometimes I abbreviate the whole thing to a vague confused shrug.

    I don't feel too bad about it*, but it's pretty clear that I have little to contribute to the topic -- in the form of information useful/detailed enough for them -- and that I'm frankly not going to make an effort to improve significantly. My daily trains of thoughts just don't naturally range in that area, and I have limited interest in studying The Art Of Logistics, useful as it may be. My occasional mistakes feel like an acceptable price to pay.

    It's worth noting I definitely catch physical details that the LIE misses ('cause their hyper-efficiency doesn't pay attention to where the jar of salt went), so that balances things out a bit.

    *sometimes a bit self-conscious about being out of my depth, for sure, or feeling like a 'comparatively incompetent person'
    Damn, that was a good Te-Polr description. I wondered once why an IEI bought a really expensive original replacement battery for her e-bike from the local bike shop but now I realize it wouldn’t occur to them on their own to look for cheaper options. Also, asking for help on practical matters that are simple to google despite perfectly good Ti understanding of things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hux View Post
    Has anyone experienced this? As Fi polr when a friend or someone I'm close to do something that makes me feel unsure of the state of our relationship I feel really uneasy and uncomfortable. Does anyone know how to deal with your weakest function effectively?
    This reminded me of a past episode with a shrink one month ago. It was our first and only (so far) appointment. Midway our session, she was trying to get more information on me and she did something I will never forget, it made me shiver with cringe and left me REALLY uncomfortable. She looks at me with the most compassionate sad eyes and posture in the world, and asked in a very emotional and calming voice "What...is hurting you?". Unfortunately that didn't help, while she may have had the best intentions, all I felt was probed for deep emotions and pain, and I was really turned off after that. I will never forget that because I was really uncomfortable with that. And I usually let things go (interaction-wise) without giving it much thought, but that shit she pulled marked me, it was disturbing.

    Ah and I have Fe PoLR.

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    Polr is an IE you're very self conscious about. You may obsess with it, but you'll never be great at it (I'm not considering practice. With practice you can do everything). You also DON'T enjoy getting involved with it. It's not like accomplishing something in it's field gives you happiness. You just try to avoid damage in that field. You'll probably involve in it just to avoid criticism and similar stuff.
    You may avoid getting shit done in it's domain, but you'll still feel the mental pain of knowing you're piling up problems because of your deficit.
    Also, polr hits example may all sound relatable. You may feel sadness with those sentences. But a polr hit is not just sadness or rage. It may make you feel like your head is exploding, and you may feel TRUE DESPERATION.

    A Fe polr may for example attempt faking a smile sometimes, if it's evident that others expect it, but won't feel any satisfaction in getting involved in the improvement of the emotional atmosphere. It will feel cringy, fake and painful. Most of the time a Fe polr will fail noticing such stuff, and will get criticized.
    Polr hit example: "Why are you so serious? Laugh more! Tell us something at least". Every type can be told similar stuff, especially introverts. But they wouldn't feel bad as much as a Fe polr.

    A Se polr may fake being decisive in character. But when there are no unfamiliar people around they'll be the softest people. Very live and let live kind of people. They hate every form of pressure. They may for example force themselves to answer to offenses, but never take pleasure in the adrenaline of battle. For them it's just stressful to get exposed to the harshness of society.
    "I don't think you'd be able to do better than him. He's way more decisive and active. But you're soft and very nice so just keep doing your thing."

    A Ne polr may fake being open minded and flexible. They just want to stick to their favorite course of action and see no point in looking for fancy alternatives. Very no nonsense people. They may even get involved in silly humor and conversations and they'll try to fit in the situation, but they'll feel very uncomfortable.
    "Oh you're working with this method since 2010? It makes no sense. Why would you need to do it like this? Look, my way is way better. Come on, your way makes absolutely no sense."

    A Te polr may fake being efficient and effective. They may feel very incapable of accomplishing goals and finishing tasks but since they're so self conscious about it they'll try avoiding the situations, or may not talk about them. They easily take offense even if other people try to give them tips on the stuff they're struggling at, especially if it's work related.
    "What? You're still jobless? You failed your exams too? Jeez. You have to be consistent. Your poor life choices really make no sense to me, no offense."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reyne View Post
    Polr is an IE you're very self conscious about. You may obsess with it, but you'll never be great at it (I'm not considering practice. With practice you can do everything). You also DON'T enjoy getting involved with it. It's not like accomplishing something in it's field gives you happiness. You just try to avoid damage in that field. You'll probably involve in it just to avoid criticism and similar stuff.
    You may avoid getting shit done in it's domain, but you'll still feel the mental pain of knowing you're piling up problems because of your deficit.
    Also, polr hits example may all sound relatable. You may feel sadness with those sentences. But a polr hit is not just sadness or rage. It may make you feel like your head is exploding, and you may feel TRUE DESPERATION.

    A Fe polr may for example attempt faking a smile sometimes, if it's evident that others expect it, but won't feel any satisfaction in getting involved in the improvement of the emotional atmosphere. It will feel cringy, fake and painful. Most of the time a Fe polr will fail noticing such stuff, and will get criticized.
    Polr hit example: "Why are you so serious? Laugh more! Tell us something at least". Every type can be told similar stuff, especially introverts. But they wouldn't feel bad as much as a Fe polr.

    A Se polr may fake being decisive in character. But when there are no unfamiliar people around they'll be the softest people. Very live and let live kind of people. They hate every form of pressure. They may for example force themselves to answer to offenses, but never take pleasure in the adrenaline of battle. For them it's just stressful to get exposed to the harshness of society.
    "I don't think you'd be able to do better than him. He's way more decisive and active. But you're soft and very nice so just keep doing your thing."

    A Ne polr may fake being open minded and flexible. They just want to stick to their favorite course of action and see no point in looking for fancy alternatives. Very no nonsense people. They may even get involved in silly humor and conversations and they'll try to fit in the situation, but they'll feel very uncomfortable.
    "Oh you're working with this method since 2010? It makes no sense. Why would you need to do it like this? Look, my way is way better. Come on, your way makes absolutely no sense."

    A Te polr may fake being efficient and effective. They may feel very incapable of accomplishing goals and finishing tasks but since they're so self conscious about it they'll try avoiding the situations, or may not talk about them. They easily take offense even if other people try to give them tips on the stuff they're struggling at, especially if it's work related.
    "What? You're still jobless? You failed your exams too? Jeez. You have to be consistent. Your poor life choices really make no sense to me, no offense."
    Good write up.. can you do the rest of the polr?

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    Well first off I think having an external, logic objective polr is a bit different than a feeler-y personal one. So I'm not sure I agree that with every polr its something ur insecure about necessarily but it still bites you in the ass regardless, the way a boulder falling on you is damaging to you no matter how confident you are about anything...(it might seem like the person is being 'insecure' to others tho)

    Actually a therapist I had once told me (pretty accurately I think) that my problem in life was that I was TOO care-free and laid back and not stressed enough like I was supposed to be, that I needed to be me more uptight and serious and heterosexual basically - but I just wasn't and it was hard to force myself to be this way despite so many ppl trying to turn me into that way. they would say 'don't laugh at that' when an ESTp said something immature or something but I would laugh at it anyway? I think polr is probably like that. My polr anyway, maybe.

    It was kind of ironic and parodoxical because I was seeing a therapist in order to stop anxiety issues not to create them- but my refusal to get worked up over anything trolled too many ppl. I also was chastised once for being too calm when a person lost their finger- like I was a sociopath for not freaking out about somebody losing a body part? Maybe they wondered would I act the same way if it was their heart or brain and not a finger (I don't think I would) Idk... maybe I am just creepy.

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    I don't exactly believe it's really a thing. The polr is just the last thing a person will go to in their psyche. It's the most unnatural thing to do for them, but there's nothing stopping them from training it like a tool to use when the need arises.

    Actually, I'm starting to believe some people are incapable of certain mental processes and use socionics polr to represent that. Take a classic psychopath for example, they supposedly lack some kind of empathy and this could end up being associated as a Fi polr hit when they get in trouble with their relations. But in truth, they lacked the ability to begin with. So there ends up being two different polrs people talk about it seems.

    Then there's the fact that types are always constant, but people can and do change. Though people will only change to a certain degree, so an NT could go anywhere from XNTx more easily, but is probably not mentally wired to go from NT to SF for example. So I wonder if really there are just type clubs, NT/ST/NF/SF, that people belong to and just kind of wobble around their club, where some are more stable to represent certain types and others more variable depending on the circumstances around them.
    The beatings will continue, whether morale improves or not.

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    I occasionally got Te-PoLRed by ILI and ESI parents.
    ESI because she'd Se me about why do you suck at/not even care about Te, why did you mess up that Te thing..

    With ILI
    he is the tech person of the family so whenever i have a problem i just go to him and ask, but after a while started forcing me to figure things out on my own (i'm not inclined to even try if i know someone can explain it to me, which i understand is not great) and the first few "confrontations" about it were rough on me because i didn't receive it well. i'd yell, why can't you just tell me and they would refuse because i need to learn myself, and i would barely try to figure things out and give up right away and do this other suboptimal solution because it's too stressful, and i would just get more aggressive and they in turn, and i felt like crying out of nowhere.
    stuff like figuring out why my monitor doesn't work, why the toaster oven stopped working out of nowhere, how to return this package correctly (just required reading instructions but i messed it up somehow)

    another thing about Te PolR is i never feel like i did things right. i have to reread instructions 10 times over and still be anxious i messed up.
    and i have trouble even trusting a textbook to tell me the right things

    observing LIE/ILI is helpful to me because they show me that it's ok to trust these things/sources/processes, to not always doubt things like that.
    working with an LIE often is especially helpful because i can quietly observe their Te in action and learn from them. it's not the same with delta STs because the Ni gives a common point where start of from. but LIE devaluing of Ti unnerves me, it really does. working together with this LIE doesn't feel terribly unbalanced because I am good at the refining of ideas as well as effective delivery, and she assures that we do things right and we also do what we were supposed to do.

    i get frustrated because even when i do my best to do something in the most efficient way, something always invariably comes and suddenly i just managed to do something in the most inefficient way.
    i never feel like i did my work completely right and i have trouble internally assessing it
    i am slow to adopt new shortcuts to doing things even when i realize i really should take the 5 minutes to learn it.

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    Se PoLR hit is easy. Everytime someone calls an XII a pussy it's a PoLR hit. How do you hit someone with Si PoLR? Call them dirty or something? Messy? Or someone with Te PoLR, call them useless? How do you hit someone with Ni PoLR, call them shortsighted? Is that even a hurtful insult? Who choses the word "short sighted" when they want to throw an insult at you? Ne PoLR how do u hit that? Maybe call someone narrow minded I guess. But calling someone a pussy is most definitely an obvious and well used insult and an easy one to throw out. Calling an Fi PoLR an asshole I don't even see how that hurts considering they can hide their Fi even from themselves to feel absolutely no freaking pain at all, it's practically a super power at that point. Ti PoLR is another bad one though, because you can easily call someone stupid and that's another well used obvious insult that hits like a brick. And Fe PoLR, I guess you can say awkward or socially challenged and maybe that's a hit. But who knows maybe everybody's PoLR hits them like a brick even if it makes no sense to me, I can only see out the lens of my own PoLR, but I have my doubts that all PoLRs hurt as much as the next.
    Last edited by Lord Pixel; 10-28-2020 at 05:50 AM.

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    Most times, I don't feel hit by Ti-Polr as much as incredibly drained. Being told that I'm stupid doesn't really do anything, I can just retort with Te. Ti-drain situations:

    - having to justify something I did when I don't remember the reason
    - "let's go through your report point by point to analyse your reasoning together"
    - having to figure out who is who and who is responsible for what in organised groups
    - trying to figure out what is "too much to ask", what my "obligations" are, etc...
    - trying to figure out what someone really thinks. Why don't you just say it?
    - living with someone who will not change his mind; being in a continual debate state about BS

    Real Ti hits:
    - being accused of dishonesty or bullied when disrespecting rules I didn't know existed(mostly by SLE and LSI)
    - telling my opinion about a specific fact and being told "that's not what you really think" or other invalidating comments(btw, I have no clue of what I "really think" most of times)
    - having to adapt to rules even when my situation doesn't fit into their assumptions; being punished otherwise

    Quote Originally Posted by Hux View Post
    Does anyone know how to deal with your weakest function effectively?
    Nice ressources: here and here
    Only there occasionally

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    Pretty much anything Fi that could be turned against me, I’m instinctually on alert. I hate it but being exposed to so much Fi really exhausts me because I have no control over that function. It’s what I can’t control that I hate because I want more control, not be surrounded by my weaknesses. PoLR function is extremely weak and unvalued but it’s also a shrinking function (cautious) so instead of expanding, it would rather contract so it doesn’t have to be utilized beyond its limitations. Any sort of suggestion or “help” from Fi leads really pisses me off because they’re lecturing me about something I don’t care about that I would rather have destroyed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    Se PoLR hit is easy. Everytime someone calls an XII a pussy it's a PoLR hit. How do you hit someone with Si PoLR? Call them dirty or something? Messy? Or someone with Te PoLR, call them useless? How do you hit someone with Ni PoLR, call them shortsighted? Is that even a hurtful insult? Who choses the word "short sighted" when they want to throw an insult at you? Ne PoLR how do u hit that? Maybe call someone narrow minded I guess. But calling someone a pussy is most definitely an obvious and well used insult and an easy one to throw out. Calling an Fi PoLR an asshole I don't even see how that hurts considering they can hide their Fi even from themselves to feel absolutely no freaking pain at all, it's practically a super power at that point. Ti PoLR is another bad one though, because you can easily call someone stupid and that's another well used obvious insult that hits like a brick. And Fe PoLR, I guess you can say awkward or socially challenged and maybe that's a hit. But who knows maybe everybody's PoLR hits them like a brick even if it makes no sense to me, I can only see out the lens of my own PoLR, but I have my doubts that all PoLRs hurt as much as the next.
    Well verbal insults aren't the only way to feel a PoLR hit. Generally, having to do something in the realm of the PoLR yourself will do it.

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    That list is funny and I feel like it proved some of what I said. I can only feel the pain of my own PoLR, but look at Ni PoLR, how painful is something like that wth. Ni especially seems like something that would barely bother anyone. Ne PoLR sounds like an unwarranted paranoia about nothing essentially. Fi fear, sorry if your afraid of being rejected, like every single person on the planet is, congrats you're human. Si is probably a legit fear, fear of disease. Google can literally walk you through your Te fears. Fe fear is temporary considering emotions are fleeting, especially loud boisterous ones, don't wanna be captured by strong emotions? Don't watch drama, and an emotion can't actually harm you. Ti fears, so what? You have Te, sure you don't have all the "right" info but you can still get it done, no matter how "dumb" someone thinks you are.

    Se PoLR I feel like I am at the mercy of the world, of the people around me and whether they decide to hurt/take advantage of me or not. It fucking sucks feeling like you're an ant that people choose not to step on, like all the power is in someone else's hands, you have no control over your own damn safety or protection for your interests. And sometimes guns don't even scare people. Situation after situation my mind wonders "What if I assert myself and this person yells back at me? What am I gonna do? Let them have their way?" "What if this person tries to hurt me? What am I gonna do? Sit there and die?" . That on top of the fact that no one respects someone they consider weak, it's an unvalued trait in life, even a coward hates their self for being weak, so throw self loathing in the mix with Se PoLR.
    Last edited by Lord Pixel; 10-30-2020 at 02:54 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ania View Post
    its part of se norms to not unduly attack those ie those who cannot defend themselves, or to not step on those. Often they may not realize that’s what they did though, so they need dual help for that. Because there’s a lot of misunderstanding between se and ne types. But anyways, point being it’s not normal to forcefully overpower someone and step on someone’s interest when they can’t fight back. That’s “bad” or poorly used Se. Se users from what I know, try not to do that.

    as for the others, I think you need to look at it through the whole lens of what each IE represents so for example Ni PoLR is fear of predictions but the thing is we have to constantly go through life predicting things and with Ni PoLR they freeze and become afraid when someone asks them at some foreseeable time in the future what would xyz look like. They may at best hazard a guess with the possibilistic Ne but it’s not going to be nuanced. And they are going to be taken advantage of by people who are scheming and cunning in that classic Ni way.

    it’s not just se polrs who feel at the mercy of things even with everyday life; it’s probably all of them.
    In life or death they still probably feel like they could protect them self from another person. And they can simply say "idk" when asked a question like that, bam situation avoided. And it doesn't matter if it's not the norm, doesn't stop you from feeling helpless if someone chose to harm you. And who the hell is disrespecting someone who can't predict the future? I can't remember the last time I heard someone say "Wow what a short sighted simple minded person you are haha!" But we have words to condemn the weak ones. Coward, punk, doormat, pussy, bitch, etc all that good stuff because we do not like or tolerate anything considered weak, in ourselves or others. Collective hate of traits -> self hate of traits -> denial of traits-> repression of traits -> fear of admitting to having hated traits.

    EDIT: @Ania and if those se norms were completely true, bullies would not exist.
    Last edited by Lord Pixel; 10-30-2020 at 02:58 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    Well verbal insults aren't the only way to feel a PoLR hit. Generally, having to do something in the realm of the PoLR yourself will do it.
    @Lord Pixel, verbal insults donít really bother me, I think, but my PoLR is hit if I feel what Iím doing is being evaluated, and I have to pay attention to what Iím doing and what Iím saying, for instance in a presentation or interview.

    SLEs are often stressful to deal with because they tend to act as if theyíre always watching for a reaction, or waiting to instigate one, and I feel I have to defend myself from this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ania View Post
    I mean, I really can't speak to your own life experiences of course but IMO others' PoLR "hits" should not be discounted; they really can feel fearful and scared 'over nothing' just like Se PoLRs can be scared of "someone harming them." Does that make sense?
    Yes but those fears aren't based on something that determines life or death, except maybe Si. Fear of being late, being rejected, surprises and what not aren't the same as feeling like you are powerless to survive if you ever had to defend yourself. On top of those fears not being unanimously condemned, except maybe Si cleanliness again.

    Feeling like deep down you truly are a coward no matter what you do and hoping no one ever finds out, is no way to live. Nobody respects that, not even yourself. Tell me how fear of loud emotions even compares to that?
    Last edited by Lord Pixel; 10-30-2020 at 03:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ania View Post
    that’s why they are bullies lol
    they are in the WRONG; it’s not the norm! The way they are behaving is against Se norms - no valued se user would agree with it unless they are also unethical.
    Hate to break it to you. Bullying is the norm. That's why it's even brought up so much. Maybe not among adults but among kids it's the norm. And we are all the products of our fucked up experiences as kids.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ania View Post
    i sympathize with how difficult this PoLR can feel to you but I am not worried about being “cowardly” for instance or that I’m going to literally have to defend myself in a life or death situation. I guess I feel safe or protected in that sense. Plus “cowards” IMO are those who act from a place of ill-will intermingled with fear to the point of lying to themselves. People see me at least as “too innocent” for that although I’m not saying EIIs cannot unintentionally hurt people. But what we project onto or are scared of in others probably pales in comparison with the vileness others can project (and hence their “cowardly” actions).

    im not saying that word doesn’t put me off, even applied to other people I find it cruel, maybe I can’t fully understand it. Like the cases of Gamma “vengeance” I see for example even on this forum but certainly not only. I don’t get it, it all feels cruel to me but I also get the sense I don’t entirely understand how “in the wrong” the ‘perpetrator’ really is.

    anyways it helps to be surrounded by those who really see you for you.
    I will admit I have a heightened sensitivity to the word coward since I'm a guy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    I will admit I have a heightened sensitivity to the word cowards since I'm a guy.
    Most male Ne egos are like this especially IME

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ania View Post
    It wasn’t the norm for me. Although I have seen other kids be bullied for being strange, different, whatever
    I probably scared people just a little what with that sx 4...vibes
    so they likely silently made fun of me if they did (everyone talks really poorly about others in like HS or college - it takes a while for people to grow up)

    anyways. Um and I think when I was very little like elementary school some girls tried to bully me but I didn’t entirely “get it” at the time plus with girls they can be passive aggressive and sneaky. Anyways my parents intervened and said I should stay away from them.

    point is no, bullying isn’t necessarily part of someone’s worldview or what they consider normal. And I was brought up in two different countries as a child, including moving every two years within country elementary and middle school. So I mean...yes I have been exposed to different situations and people and I’m not going to say they were all nice to me but bullying as norm is not part of my worldview.
    Bullying isn't rare.

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