1. ## Ni/Ne examples?

Hello!!

I've been reading up on Ni and Ne recently and I think I have a pretty good grasp of what both of these are in theory but I'm basically clueless as to how they manifest irl and how to recognize them "in action," so I was wondering if anyone had concrete examples of how you use Ni/Ne?

2. I think of the difference in practical terms. Both Ne and Ni are the intuition of possibilities and can also be said to represent a sequence of events in time. The intuition of possibilities part comes in when you take a sequence of events in time and either predict one outcome (Ni) or you extrapolate many possible outcomes (Ne).

For example, I (an LIE) was designing a fairly complex lens in collaboration with another lens designer, an ILE, for a third customer. According to the customer, the ILE was technically in charge on this job, but I have much more experience and he and I both knew it. He and I passed the design back and forth, and he was supposed to make the final recommendation for the system that the company would build. The lens was staggeringly expensive, incidentally, but the government agency which wanted to build the lens has access to the U.S. government's currency printing presses.
When we got done wringing out the last bit of performance from the design that could be had, given the restrictions we were given on it, and he was supposed to say, "This is it", he sent me two designs and asked me to make the final decision.

Ne is never settling on a final conclusion, and Ni is choosing the one best path out of many.

Contrast the behavior of LII's and LIE's, for whom Ne and Ni are creative functions, respectively.

Ti-dom LII's might postulate that some equation or relationship or classification scheme holds in the real world (Ti), but then spend a huge amount of time looking for exceptions (Ne) to the rule that they, themselves, just came up with. This behavior is the foundation of natural science, in my opinion.

Te-dom LIE's might examine the random junk that makes up the real world (Te) and will spend a huge amount of time considering how it can be assembled into something (Ni) that is temporarily useful right now for a specific task. This behavior is the foundation of business and engineering, in my opinion.

3. Originally Posted by Adam Strange
I think of the difference in practical terms. Both Ne and Ni are the intuition of possibilities and can also be said to represent a sequence of events in time. The intuition of possibilities part comes in when you take a sequence of events in time and either predict one outcome (Ni) or you extrapolate many possible outcomes (Ne).
Please use the Socionic symbols and not the MBTI wingdings. MBTI "Ne" or whatever they are are a basardization and not appropriate for these fora. And poor Augustinavichiute spent so much time creating a smorgasboard of terms to use it's almost speaking ill of the deceased to speak in MBTI.

Generally speaking, the abstract irrational elements perceive stereotypes. The concrete irrational elements perceive qualities. By the definitions of introverted and extroverted, sees the stereotypes of objects (people) while sees the stereotypes of fields (trends between object and objects = people).

Please see this post which contains a list of the three defining qualities of introvert and extrovert.

4. There should be no quantifiable examples of Ni or Ne. N signifies a perception, a filter and input of information, which comprises a relational perspective of everything the senses acquire. Ni signifies that N is being employed interactively with rationalization (output) processes. Ne signifies that data is being acquired independently of rationalization and placed in memory. One can describe how N-types may behave under certain conditions but one cannot attribute say "intuition", for example, to N because S-types also experience intuition as defined in the dictionary. A problem with both Socionics and MBTI is the attempt to assign specific outcomes to information elements. Information processing is only the means to the end and the end can be arrived at by different means.....

a.k.a. I/O

5. @Rebelondeck, if you define N as a form of perception, how would you say it is different from S?

It can’t be simply a “relational perspective” of everything that the senses acquire, because S types perceive relationships between objects. I’ve seen an SLE with low N take one look at a room and a week later could look at it again and tell you which things had moved. So clearly, S sees the relations between objects.

6. Originally Posted by Adam Strange
.....if you define N as a form of perception, how would you say it is different from S?.........
As I've said in other posts; all information is comprised of N (qualitative) and S (quantitative) components. S is complete in and of itself (for example, a pixel) and N is the relationships among all the S - both are needed for a picture.

http://www.socionics.com/articles/soc_pref_io.html
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...atterns-by-I-O

a.k.a. I/O

7. Originally Posted by Rebelondeck
As I've said in other posts; all information is comprised of N (qualitative) and S (quantitative) components. S is complete in and of itself (for example, a pixel) and N is the relationships among all the S - both are needed for a picture.

http://www.socionics.com/articles/soc_pref_io.html
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...atterns-by-I-O

a.k.a. I/O
So N is meta S?

8. Originally Posted by Adam Strange
I think of the difference in practical terms. Both Ne and Ni are the intuition of possibilities and can also be said to represent a sequence of events in time. The intuition of possibilities part comes in when you take a sequence of events in time and either predict one outcome (Ni) or you extrapolate many possible outcomes (Ne).
Ni is not intuition of possiblities. That's Ne.

"Introduction to Ne

Extroverted intuition is an extroverted, irrational, and static information element. It is also called Ne, intuition of possibilities, or black intuition.

Ne is generally associated with the ability to recognize possibilities, create new opportunities and new beginnings, recognize talent and natural propensities in others, reconcile differing perspectives and viewpoints, rapidly generate ideas, and be led by one's intellectual curiosity and stimulate curiosity in others."

Ne is never settling on a final conclusion, and Ni is choosing the one best path out of many.
"Types that value Ne prefer to try out an opportunity rather than consider all possible ways in which it could not work out. They pick a few options and stick with them, in contrast to introverted intuition (Ni) types who pick one option and continue to doubt that option. They enjoy discussing unusual insights into the nature of the world and crazy out-there ideas, like space elevators. Typical Ne quadra humor juxtaposes seemingly unrelated phenomena."

"Introduction to Ni

Introverted intuition is an introverted, irrational, and dynamic information element. It is also called Ni, T, temporal intuition, or white intuition. Ni is generally associated with the ability to recognize the unfolding of processes over time (how one event leads to another), have visions of the past and future, develop mental imagery, and see intangible hints of relationships between processes or objects. Types that value Ni always like to have in mind a specific plan for how their life will develop in the future.
Thus they have little time for the concept of "living for the moment" or "making the best of the present". They generally engage in pure leisure activities only for short periods of time, and even then their leisure activities generally involve a psychologically demanding or competitive aspect.

As a base function, Ni generally manifests itself through a lack of direct attention to the world around oneself, and a sense of detachment or freedom from worldly affairs. This can lead to a highly developed imagination and very unique mental world, but it can also result in a great deal of laziness and apparent inactivity. Because the individual gets his or her primary information about the world through imagination, a person with leading Ni may be able to thrive in situations where data are scarce, or where he or she lacks the usual prerequisite experience. However, this may also become a disadvantage if the person ignores real data about the world too much. The ability to transcend the axis of time and understand the cause and effect relationships that occur is also a feature, sometimes resulting in the ability to accurately predict general future trends and outcomes of certain events.

Ni as Creative Function

The individual likes to predict the further development of the situations and topics that he is interested in. The individual applies his highly developed sense of vision not as an end in itself, but as a way of promoting the development of his more central interests and activities."

Jung's text:

"The intuitive is never to be found among the generally recognized reality values, but he is always present where possibilities exist. He has a keen nose for things in the bud pregnant with future promise."

"Intuition, in the introverted attitude, is directed upon the inner object, a term we might justly apply to the elements of the unconscious...Inner objects appear to the intuitive perception as subjective images of things, which, though not met with in external experience, really determine the contents of the unconscious, i.e. the collective unconscious in the last resort. Naturally,in their perse character,these contents are not accessible to experience,...Although this intuition may receive its impetus from outer objects, it is never arrested by the external possibilities, but stays with that factor which the outer object releases within."

9. Originally Posted by Adam Strange
So N is meta S?
I perhaps don't know exactly what you're implying but I think the answer is no. S by itself isn't useful information and N by itself is equally useless, and they cannot be separated from one another. To be information, it must have relational and absolute qualities or it won't have meaning. A dictionary definition is defined in relation to other words; where's the reference? N and S are two different perspectives on the exact same information; that's why I indicated that outcomes shouldn't be associated with information elements......

a.k.a. I/O

10. A concrete manifestation of how I use Ni that I just noticed recently:

In writing literature essays, I am always trying to connect something to one, core idea. I read the essay my Ne-user friend wrote for an assignment, and I realized one reason why I never get as high a grade I wish-- the way she writes is that she has multiple ideas coming out of certain things, and doesn't feel the need to always connect them. That last part was important for me to realize, because in fact, I limit myself by always trying to tie things together to one fundamental point in my essays. Maybe it's possible to write essays like that in a way that works, but it doesn't seem I'm great at it (also partly due to the fact that i never give myself enough time to flesh out and organize my ideas because i always start my essays 9pm the night before...), so I should try to be more flexible. It changed how I look at essay writing a lot.
Also, my professor is a very strong Si-dom and although I love him so much, I really do feel how we're just.. not on the same wavelength.. in terms of how we see things. So, he doesn't understand me and my ideas as well

Ah, I just realized this very example illustrates Ni/Se very well
In my life, I always notice I'm basically just gathering different perspectives trying to form the truest, most universal way of seeing things. In this case, I've been unconsciously trying to figure out what is the one best way I should look at essay writing (I've been very frustrated in this class, recently!), because how I'm doing it right now is clearly not the best way.

And actually, thinking about it... i remember, when i was as young as 6 years old or something, after situations in which I couldn't solve a problem or issue (can't think of any concrete examples), and then I finally figured it out, I would make a mental note to myself: next time in this situation, make sure to consider this !! Like, maybe if I were trying to find something (oversimplified example), I would tell myself, make sure to think outside of the box! outside of your confines. something like that.
And when you think about it, it's a technique so that eventually.. based on what actually happened in the real world (Se), I can continually better and better view it to best simplify the situation into one universal truth (Ni).
For a more coherent example of this: I've always been way better at understanding people than actually interacting with them, and most of what I've learned about how to actually interact with people is from observing how all types of people act in different situations (Se), and then slowly I refine more and more how I should be viewing my own social interactions properly (because how you view it affects how you act in it). It sounds really weird written down, but that's how it is.

In conclusion, think about how you think perceive/think about things. Observe yourself think. Are you always searching to get to the core of everything (Ni)?
Do you lack external grounding (Ni) or internal grounding (Ne)?
I hope I helped a bit if you have any questions, please ask. also, apologies if what i wrote is slightly incoherent-- i'm in a bit of a rush.

11. Originally Posted by SocietyOTLittleFlower
Please use the Socionic symbols and not the MBTI wingdings. MBTI "Ne" or whatever they are are a basardization and not appropriate for these fora. And poor Augustinavichiute spent so much time creating a smorgasboard of terms to use it's almost speaking ill of the deceased to speak in MBTI.

Generally speaking, the abstract irrational elements perceive stereotypes. The concrete irrational elements perceive qualities. By the definitions of introverted and extroverted, sees the stereotypes of objects (people) while sees the stereotypes of fields (trends between object and objects = people).

Please see this post which contains a list of the three defining qualities of introvert and extrovert.
How do you type the symbols? I've never known