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Thread: What is Se PoLR like, and how can I develop it as an INXj ?

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    Ajna's Avatar
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    Lightbulb What is Se PoLR like, and how can I develop it as an INXj ?

    assuming Se is active acquisition, control, and organization of visible territory and objects
    + Se - retention of power, insubordination, defense, cover, countermove, counterattack, firmness, defense of one's interests, strong-willed pressure from the bottom upwards, strength, will, possession;
    − Se - capture of power, subjugation, offensive attack, initiative, perseverance, determination, demands, strong-willed pressure from top downwards, the assertion of own interests at the expense of others, overthrowing, appropriating, weakness, passivity;


    I want to share some things I do and would like your opinion if this sounds like Se PoLR to you. If it is or not, how could I develop it?


    I "exercise" Se having very little willpower, I'm extremely passive, lack energy, almost total inability to live in the moment, avoiding confrontations, and avoiding external pressure. I'm very lazy about doing exercise, but I have an athletic build and good endurance. I fluctuate a lot on taking care of me. I usually bounce from extreme bad diets to extremely healthy ones.

    Sometimes I make a thousand running plans to prepare for the next marathon only to drop them after 2 weeks and spend my time lazying out. I want to explore and do many things at once and I'm very extreme and unconventional in my choices, like going scuba dive, waste all my money on a violin that I'm gonna let get dusty on the shelf, etc.

    I'm very sensitive to my surroundings and easily disturbed. I hate extreme noises and smells.

    I'm extremely clumsy, and I've had my share of practical failures in the past, that's why I usually plan ahead for everything so my external environment can't one up me. I feel hyper aware of many sensory things like how much strength I should use when carrying a tray full of overflowing drinks lol. When I was younger I used to hurt my girl friends a lot because I didn't know how much strength I should exercise when touching them or hugging them. When hanging in a public space I prepare for everything and try to get a mental picture of where everything is, which way those moving staircases are going, where's the closest bathroom, I want to use as little energy as I can in these type of things, therefore I try to anticipate everything. I can't recall anything more now but there are A LOT of specifics I focus on depending on where I am. It feels almost like a compulsion to be prepared for the immediate surroundings.

    Also, when I was a teenager I had this facade of being an aggressive tomboy, probably trying to overcompensate for my psychological and physical sensibility - I could never exercise volitional pressure on others though, and I think this was also a way to fake some assertiveness, which I also lack.

    Sometimes I confront/lash back at people with disproportional aggressiveness. I also abhor authority and being ordered around. I don't like to conform, at school I do everything my way, very differently from the rest of my class. I probably the only one who frequently skips classes because I prefer to study at my local library and only show up to exams to have the best grades.

    I don't like social and practical responsibilities. I just want everyone to leave me alone to my devices and let me do my own thing, that's exactly how I treat others and how I would like to be treated.

    How do you use your Se? How could we develop these qualities?

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Itís not being able to stand an aggressive atmosphere directed at you
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    It’s not being able to stand an aggressive atmosphere directed at you
    pretty sure you don't need to have it as a vulnerable function to dislike that.

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    In LII Iíve seen it as a kind of passivity, inability to assert themselves and demand something to be done. Itís like they just give up and donít know how to act if someone does not comply and wonít be reasoned with logic. They feel relieved if you do that kind of pressuring for them. But at the same time also resist when directly ordered and might get disproportionally angry at a perceived attack on their independence.
    Yeah and they get very annoyed if they donít get to finish their monologues but will only complain about it afterwards to others.

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    Se role types are known to push back in confrontations if needed [sometimes being bit arrogant for minor reasons]. Anyway some sort of timidity especially among LIIs and avoidance among EII's which may splash into other extreme [which is not very convincing].

    Planning in the environment usually means Si [where I suck a lot]
    Measuring you right now

    Winning is for losers

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajna View Post
    pretty sure you don't need to have it as a vulnerable function to dislike that.
    But other types can deal better than me. Also the loss of details and textures to the senses
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    You don't develop your polr. You develop your strengths, and they compensate for your weaknesses. When the time comes, you'll be able to handle the polr. But you don't try to develop it intentionally.

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    Ajna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    You don't develop your polr. You develop your strengths, and they compensate for your weaknesses. When the time comes, you'll be able to handle the polr. But you don't try to develop it intentionally.
    Why not? Replies would be relevant anyways, if not for me, for others whose strengths are Si/Se.

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    PoLR is difficult to develop since it's so alien to your normal mode of thinking that you make mistakes constantly. Someone strong in that function pointing out those mistakes hurts and makes you even less interested in trying to develop it, it's almost impossible to think in that manner anyway since it would detract from your identity.

    At least that's how it feels when I get Fi hits from a super-ego. Likewise, I hurt them with Ti without even realizing (until getting the hurt reaction) that I just did it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heretic 007 View Post
    Se role types are known to push back in confrontations if needed [sometimes being bit arrogant for minor reasons]. Anyway some sort of timidity especially among LIIs and avoidance among EII's which may splash into other extreme [which is not very convincing].

    Planning in the environment usually means Si [where I suck a lot]
    Aren't you the one who related to me in the other post? You're always making me reconsider my type! I think you should also do the same, even if just for fun.
    I compiled some juicy descriptions, but i was hoping people here would also give their personal anecdotes. As you will read down below, my worries seem very Se-Vulnerable like.

    By the way, I'm pretty sure my boyfriend is an ENFp and with Si as his suggestive, he literally has an inability in understanding his own physical states. He doesn't recognize hunger on himself and how obviously hangry he can get, and other physical symptoms of disease or anxiety. It's amazing how little notion he has of it, it's ridiculous. I don't know where his mind goes, but he can't ever consider why he might be irritable if he hasn't eaten in 10 hours. He doesn't know when to eat and when he needs it, and he can binge eat extremely unhealthily until he feels sick and suffers massive constipation (a classic). He also automatically thinks he's gotten sick when he's in the middle of a draft, only to be miraculously cured when his body returns to normal temperature. It's an amazing ignorance, he's an amazing specimen really.

    Let's compare ILE/IEE vs LII/EII sensing:

    () Se - active acquisition, control, and organization of visible territory and objects. ENXp 3rd function; INXj 4th function.
    + Se - retention of power, insubordination, defense, cover, countermove, counterattack, firmness, defense of one's interests, strong-willed pressure from the bottom upwards, strength, will, possession;
    − Se - capture of power, subjugation, offensive attack, initiative, perseverance, determination, demands, strong-willed pressure from top downwards, the assertion of own interests at the expense of others, overthrowing, appropriating, weakness, passivity;
    Types that value Se (leading/creative/activating/suggesting, all Betas and Gammas) are much more comfortable with direct behavior aimed at making an immediate impact. This may at times be perceived as abrasive, particularly by types who do not value Se. There is usually a competitive edge to this style of group interaction, resulting in a more intense atmosphere than that of introverted sensing Si-valuing quadras. They appreciate contemplating possibilities only if they feel like they stand to gain something from it, or it has a perceived potential impact on "the real world".
    Unlike Si, which is about one's subjective sensory experience (how intense or enjoyable it is), Se is about achieving an object of desire. It gives one the ability to influence, bend, and push situations and people in order to achieve such an object, rather than to enjoy the situation one is in.


    () Si - a focus on one's environment and how it's affecting one's physical state. ENXp 5th function; INXj 6th function.
    + Si - pleasant sensations, comfort, convenience, harmony, beauty, attraction, leisure, health, relaxation, well-being, pleasure, enjoyment, sensitivity;
    − Si - unpleasant thrill sensations, discomfort, inconvenience, disharmony, ugliness, unattractiveness, work, fatigue, stress, illness, suffering, pain
    In contrast to extroverted sensing Se, Si is related to following one's own needs instead of focusing on some externally-driven conception of what is necessary to acquire or achieve. So, whereas Se ego types feel capable to evaluate how justified others' preferences are, Si ego types will try to adjust to them in any way possible (given that it does not extremely affect their own comfort), wishing to minimize conflict. In contrast to introverted intuition Ni, Si is about direct interaction and unity (or discord) with one's surroundings, rather than abstract process and causal links.
    Types that value Si (leading/creative/activating/suggestive types according to Model A, all Alphas and Deltas) prefer to spend their time doing enjoyable activities rather than straining themselves to achieve goals. They like to believe that if activities are done with enjoyment, people will give them more effort and time, and also becoming more skilled at what they are doing in the long run. They believe that goals should suit people's intrinsic needs rather than shaped by the demands and constraints of the external world, and so do not try to force others into doing things they don't want to do. They also try to be easygoing and pleasant, preferring peaceful coexistence to conflict, except when their personal well-being or comfort is directly at stake.



    Se as Role (ILE/IEE ENXp)
    The individual tends to criticize himself for being less disciplined and organized than he should be, and typically tries to improve himself in this area, with very limited success. He is almost unable to make himself (or anyone else, for that matter) do things that they do not want to do, and is more likely to abandon a situation where people don't want to do anything rather than figure out how to mobilize or organize them properly.
    Discipline, organization, and mobilization can occur on their own, though, when there is a situation that demands it (as opposed to trying to generate it by oneself). However, he grows increasingly tired and emotionally worn out from having to put up a fight, and begins to look for a different, easier route rather than continue to confront the challenge directly.
    He resents any attempts to "push" him to do things and rejects the idea of people pressuring each other to do things. He himself avoids the use of pressure, preferring instead to entice and inspire. Only severe irritation can make him become forceful and demanding for brief periods of time until he calms down.
    The individual places very little value on the physical properties of his surroundings. He sees very little value in disputes over resources and territory and easily yields when challenged by individuals with stronger sensing, but not because he is afraid, but because he has little interest in the concrete and the physical and sees little intrinsic value and potential in this. When trying to achieve his goals and assert his place in society, he would rather rely on his creativity, imagination, erudition, social and verbal skills to move himself forward, rather than on blunt physical demonstrations, and vie to protect his intellectual and creative freedoms. He resents any attempts by others to physically "push" him to do things and rejects the idea of people pressuring each other to do things. He himself avoids the use of physical means of influence preferring instead to interest and inspire others. However, severe irritation and inability to change the situation by other means can lead him to sporadically resort to physical measures of influence for brief periods of time. It should be noted that despite not valuing Se, this individual may speak of physical manifestations, or even threaten others with physical force, if this is within the conventions and norms of his social group, but the prime motivations here is social adaptation and mimicry.

    Se as Vulnerable (LII/EII (INXj)
    The individual tends to overreact to aggressive or confrontational behavior, taking it as a personal threat when it may only be a knee-jerk reaction or the result of a bad mood.
    He tends to avoid intruding on others' space or engaging in behavior that may be perceived as coercive, and tries hard to handle his needs by being disciplined and well-prepared himself - rather than relying on others to do things for him. If these strategies fail, his efforts at dealing with the resulting conflict make him look actively pushy in a way that appears awkward and unnatural to others. This opens him up to painful criticism and feelings of weakness and helplessness.
    He is able to moralize and instruct others about what they should do and why, but he is not prepared for others' active resistance or refusal to do as he says. In his mind, this would require him to put aside reason and good feelings and simply make the other person do what is necessary. This is extremely difficult, if not impossible, for him to do.
    This individual handles his needs by being prudent and farsighted. He mentally foresees which actions may be harmful or inopportune to himself and disruptive of his physical state and homeostasis. He doesn't intrude onto other people's space or territory and is easily annoyed and flustered by someone transgressing into his own space. He notices what may be perceived as violation of one's personal space, and disapproves of those who regularly act in such a way. He tries to prevent and bypass anything that would result in upsetting his own physical homeostasis and chastises people who are too rowdy, who create extra commotion or drama that directly disturbs him, or create sudden disruptions by their behavior such as playing practical jokes. Such indvidual may be verbally assertive, start or join in verbal disagreements and conflicts where he has to impose and defend his ideas, values, and opinions, but will try to avoid any direct confrontations where his physical state and continuity of his life are directly at stake. During conflict he prefers to anticipate and choose his fights carefully; for example, he may act out unusually aggressively when he knows that he has the backing of other powerful individuals. In inopportune confrontational situations, he may overreact and respond in excess, seem too confrontational and contentious, he may even flip out and go berserk, which later ruins his mood and exhausts him. At the same time he is sensitive towards any comments concerning his own volitional qualities and ability to stand up for himself and may try to prove them false in any way by masquerading the opposite qualities. Such individual often feels himself insufficient to actively track, organize, and change his environment and instead turns to others for such help. In cases of physical discomfort this individual usually patiently and stoically endures through his hardships, but if the problem is not dealt with eventually, he may flare up or have a physical and emotional break down. He is good at sharing information, teaching and instructing others, but lacks ability to physically force them to anything. The individual doesn't pay much attention to external physical qualities, his own or those of others, and may belittle conversations on this topic, considering it not be worthy of attention and that inner qualities and personal potential are more important.


    Si as Activating/Mobilizing (LII/EII INXj)
    The individual has difficulty producing pleasurable sensory experiences for others and for himself, but likes to talk about pleasure, enjoyment, and relaxation, hoping that someone nearby will take the hint and take the lead.
    The individual tends to periodically get wound up and uptight and is generally unable to resolve these sensations himself. He needs someone to help him relax and take an internal look at whether he actually needs or enjoys what he is doing, and what might be the source of the tension that has built up.
    He can tend to extremes in this area, either depriving or indulging the senses to an unhealthy extent.
    The individual has some difficulties being in tune with internal physical states and discerning the physical properties and potentialities of people and objects, which leads to mishaps and errors of judgement in situations where he has to deal with the physical world. This leads to tension and anxiety, as the individual desires for supportive and harmonious environment, but he is unable to create such an environment himself and dislikes having to put in regular and extensive efforts into maintaining the kind of lifestyle. While he takes care of his basic needs he greatly prefers someone else to take the lead in dealing with the material world. The individual tends to periodically get wound up and uptight, he may engage in overanalysis that is mostly based in theory, while being unable to resolve his internal perceptions and take concrete actions to improve his state. He needs someone to help him resolve these issues, provide him with advice, direction, and evaluation of his own efforts in this area, sensitively discern his needs, resolve and eliminate possible sources of tension that has built up. The individual tends to go into extremes in this area, either neglecting it or trying to overperform.

    Si as Suggestive (ILEE/IEE ENXp)
    The individual tends to be chronically unaware of his own internal states, this includes physiological sensations and a sense of balance and alignment with one's true desires. He bases his decisions on what his own state is like at the moment, possessing a weak ability to keep track of past and potential future changes in his states, and thus being unable to appropriately anticipate and deal with them, which leads to certain measure of fickleness, unsatisfaction and frustration. The individual usually emphasizes physical attractiveness as means of achieving social validations and acceptance, and improving their mating potential, but does not see physical factors and parameters as a primary aim in life, primary means of achieving their goals and attaining a respectable position. Since this function is a weak one, such individuals often take a lot of pride and enjoyment in being able to skillfully deal with the physical world: manage their appearance such that they look attractive to their friends and partners, take care of their living space and material belongings, cook appealing dishes and take care of their health. However, the individual usually applies efforts in this area at a simple, rudimentary level, enabling himself to meet the standard expectation, and does not develop and invest into it in great complexity and seriousness of approach.
    Last edited by Ajna; 02-23-2020 at 02:29 PM. Reason: ENFp boyfriend has Si as suggestive***, not PoLR. But the information below is correct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajna View Post
    Why not? Replies would be relevant anyways, if not for me, for others whose strengths are Si/Se.
    The superego is the contradiction to the ego. You won't find self-actualization by undermining yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    The superego is the contradiction to the ego. You won't find self-actualization by undermining yourself.
    Not feeling very constructive today are we? They are different but not necessarily contradictory, not in any psyche theory. I could only undermine myself by applying knowledge to my own detriment. Becoming aware and more knowledgeable about your strengths AND weaknesses doesn't do any harm, by any means, it even does the opposite. Ironically, maintaining a stance like yours may actually sway you away from growth and self-actualization.

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    eheh, I like your attitude

    btw, I agree on developing one's polr, or at least about not making it as dramatic as most seem to make it. considering the amount of mistypings occurring it would be funny to think that those who advocate for a total lack of development in the polr, were actually the type with their supposed polr in a stronger position... btw.

    the theory confirms what you say, that is, the PoLR belongs to the conscious part of the pysche, and it's related to the Freudian theory of the Super-ego = the familiar and societal impositions that cage us. we're actually hyper aware of the superego functions, use them regularly but try to suppress them in order to bloom~

    maybe it would be better to read the model A the other way around, starting from bottom to the top, where the base functions are the top we have to reach in order to express ourselves authentically. it's a struggle but so is life.

    anyway, I'm supposedly a Se polr too, yet I love it when I'm able to push myself to achieve the things I want, but who wouldn't? I'm not used to tell people what to do and command them, but when the situation requires it I can gather my strength and be demanding, and it's rewarding and uplifting. I'm not into any physical activity but I'm actually pretty good at it when I decide to follow that course... so yeah, fuck socionics tbh

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajna View Post
    Not feeling very constructive today are we? They are different but not necessarily contradictory, not in any psyche theory. I could only undermine myself by applying knowledge to my own detriment. Becoming aware and more knowledgeable about your strengths AND weaknesses doesn't do any harm, by any means, it even does the opposite. Ironically, maintaining a stance like yours may actually sway you away from growth and self-actualization.
    If there were a dislike button for this post, I'd press it.

    You have to dig into occultism and mysticism to understand how to balance the psyche. The super-id is what balances the ego, and the gateway is though the creative function. Trying to balance yourself by embracing the superego is just going to lead to an eventual short circuit. The more you emphasize the superego, the more you reinforce the id.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    If there were a dislike button for this post, I'd press it.

    You have to dig into occultism and mysticism to understand how to balance the psyche. The super-id is what balances the ego, and the gateway is though the creative function. Trying to balance yourself by embracing the superego is just going to lead to an eventual short circuit. The more you emphasize the superego, the more you reinforce the id.
    I'm not sure if you're a troll or not.
    Anyways, good thing I don't rely on occultism and mysticism, nor in fancy words to try to convey how delusional I am about a subject. /s

    Jokes aside, how would you say your super-ego and super-id functions manifest in yourself? Do you have anything relevant to share about Sensing? I'd love to read people's anecdotes.
    You're an EII, we should have something in common.

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    IEE aren’t Si polr, but Ti polr, @Anja

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    Use the search function, there was a recent thread on the same subject. You will find plenty in fact.

    My impression of you is ILE > LII.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    IEE aren’t Si polr, but Ti polr, @Anja
    Thanks, I corrected it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by COOL AND MANLY View Post
    Use the search function, there was a recent thread on the same subject. You will find plenty in fact.

    My impression of you is ILE > LII.
    Thanks, the only thing is that I see myself as an isolated introvert who prefers to work alone. Could you also take a look at my post on the typing forum?

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    My take,

    I take it as simply meaning such people don't really want to live in the objective moment, but prefer or have a proclivity to the subjective moment instead. What that means to me is whether someone likes to live in the moment proactively (Se) or passively (Si).

    If someone is being proactive in the moment, not only are they paying attention to everything around them and the impact felt by it (Si), but figuring what moves to make next based on the most natural understanding of the situation (Se backed by Ni). I think this is why Se can kind of be seen as "aggressive" because it perceives and sizes up the situation and then acts on that, whether right or not or correct or not. But then it's not really truly "aggressive" if you understand this. A better word is probably "assertive"; maybe even "decisive" as the Reinin dichotomies put it. Though "decisive" probably wouldn't fit Ni leading types very well either, maybe just moreso the Se types and less so the Ni creatives and probably not well the Se creatives. So even that seems misleading...but anyway.

    The passive person living in the moment isn't looking to make direct waves (Se). They seek instead to take in everything around them and focus on the impact to themself (Si). For this passive person, they appreciate an ability to understand and find ways to create or make this impact in others -> Ne. Ne becomes this person's way of externalizing and making real their impact felt by things. I think of it how someone can look at say a piece of art and have different kinds of feelings about it. Each person can be impacted differently (Si), but the artist tries to impact a certain impression based on how it's presented. I think a more practical way to imagine this is when someone tries to butter up the truth or they want you to see a moral issue in a certain light, even though the truth has many lights based on different ways of being impacted by things. Ne types I think are good at understanding and seeing this.

    Does that help?
    previously Megadoodoo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajna View Post
    Why not? Replies would be relevant anyways, if not for me, for others whose strengths are Si/Se.
    According to Model A, your PoLR is an inert function, so you can't develop it. This is what wikisocion says (full page here): Inert functions (1, 4, 6, 7) are those that do not integrate information from the environment; thus, the strength of these functions remain the way they are. A person does not seek guidance in these areas as they comprise the core of their natural strengths and weaknesses.

  22. #22

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    You don't need to develop your PoLR, but you can learn about it and learn to cover aspects of it with your ego block (and id block, to a lesser extent) IEs. e.g. cover some Se stuff with Te, if you can. I've been typed as LII too (mostly) and that's what I do. I have no problem getting a little "pushy" in workplace situations and in a Te way, not Se directly.

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