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Thread: What are SEE's drawn towards in romantic partners?

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    Default What are SEE's drawn towards in romantic partners?

    I'm having a lot of trouble understanding what exactly SEE's are expected to be drawn towards their dual, at least in my experience they're drawn more towards popular notions of what is "attractive" (by society), like charisma, even if their dual would not exemplify these traits. From my own point of view, it seems like SEE's embody an unusually large amount of "attractive traits" and ILI's (being their opposite) are more "unattractive". Even excerpts from Stratiyevskaya say that ILI's are more often overweight, naturally uncharismatic, and give little thought towards how they dress, and it makes little sense on how an SEE would ever subject themselves towards someone like this, though at the same time they said that the ILI would be the only partner the SEE could safely cheat on once or twice, which is slightly extreme to presume.

    I've been trying to find the best way to search for a dual the past few months and I've found that "Se" dominant people are generally found in fitness classes (which may be obvious, just look at these articles about "crossfit guys / girls") but most Se dominant people in these classes who were already taken were not taken by what I would assume is a Ni partner, though EIE appeared to be #1 in my area.

    The closest I can come to understand what role an ILI would fulfill for an SEE is that ILI's are simply a need that SEE's don't understand they have? That's pretty shitty. I'm hoping I can find something more tangible, and so I really welcome any ideas or experiences you have.

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    @Accipiter, ILI’s have minds that actually work. A mature SEE is going to value that above everything else. Also, SEE’s want to be the only one on stage, and an ILI is happy to let them get all the attention. That is not going to be true of any other type, and the SEE will eventually come to painfully realize this.

    Sometimes, people have to screw up in every possible way before they eventually come to a final conclusion. On the other hand, I was talking with a gay male ESI about his choice of a gay male ILI, and he said that while the relationship had many drawbacks (two introverts just tend to sit and wait for the other to do something, and there are some jarring mismatches in how they treat each other and how they understand the world), he said that he had to consider the whole picture. And compromise.

    I, like you, have found that my ESI Duals do not often orient towards me. I find ESI’s with other introverts, like ILI’s (very common) or SLI’s or other ESI’s, or they have EII’s or IEI’s as close friends. If they are Sx-first, they might go for a Sensor like an SLE. Almost never do they seem to find LIE’s. At least, that has been my experience. It could be that I’m just late to the party and missed all the dual hookups or I have the wrong set of friends. IDK.

    I’d just recommend being yourself. Sooner or later, if you circulate, you are going to meet a great SEE who sees your true value, and you have the added advantage of knowing that they have the potential for being a great match.

    A few hours spent with you and they will begin to see that you can bring some much-needed order and clarity to their chaotic lives. And that you are easy to get along with. And who doesn’t like that?
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 02-20-2020 at 12:27 PM.

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    Thanks Adam that makes a lot of sense. I have experienced two introverts sitting together and it does become uncomfortable when you can feel their expectations on you for you to do something. I guess it does become a numbers game as End as said before, and there isn't much of a timeline you can setup for perfect results like in all other areas of life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @Accipiter, ILI’s have minds that actually work. A mature SEE is going to value that above everything else. Also, SEE’s want to be the only one on stage, and an ILI is happy to let them get all the attention. That is not going to be true of any other type, and the SEE will eventually come to painfully realize this.

    Sometimes, people have to screw up in every possible way before they eventually come to a final conclusion. On the other hand, I was talking with a gay male ESI about his choice of a gay male ILI, and he said that while the relationship had many drawbacks (two introverts just tend to sit and wait for the other to do something, and there are some jarring mismatches in how they treat each other and how they understand the world), he said that he had to consider the whole picture. And compromise.

    I, like you, have found that my ESI Duals do not often orient towards me. I find ESI’s with other introverts, like ILI’s (very common) or SLI’s or other ESI’s, or they have EII’s or IEI’s as close friends. If they are Sx-first, they might go for a Sensor like an SLE. Almost never do they seem to find LIE’s. At least, that has been my experience. It could be that I’m just late to the party and missed all the dual hookups or I have the wrong set of friends. IDK.

    I’d just recommend being yourself. Sooner or later, if you circulate, you are going to meet a great SEE who sees your true value, and you have the added advantage of knowing that they have the potential for being a great match.

    A few hours spent with you and they will begin to see that you can bring some much-needed order and clarity to their chaotic lives. And that you are easy to get along with. And who doesn’t like that?
    I agree with Mr. Strange that typically SEE's just want the spotlight. The 3 SEE's in my life are very interested in people who can help them avoid walls in the way to their goals. If someone is willing to let them steer the ship and lead them, they will slowly start to like the person. It can rub some people like myself the wrong way but they have an ability to attract people who provide them with information for their endeavors. They don't wanna be told what to do but what are possible pitfalls on their path so they can adjust and avoid them.

    I suspect that a lot of Fi-leading types are shaped by the cultures they grew up in. It can cause trouble for an LIE because they are inclined to question the deeply held customs of a new culture. A lot of ESI's take that very personally and instantly write off that kind of person in their minds as a possible troublemaker. So they can have a harder time getting with someone who doesn't fit their specific cultural expectations of an ideal person.

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    Someone who will logically lay out how to achieve their personal desires. Fi lovessss Te. Se lovessss Ni.
    Me want rock.
    How me get rock?

    Woops, as @BeamerBoy put it more succinctly, "people who can help them avoid walls in the way to their goals."
    Being socially "unattractive (I hope you got something physically going on tho)" will help them find you, and when you open your mouth their minds should reverberate with your awesomeness (you know, since they minds already be hollow af (lolol)). But seriously, @AdamStrange is also right, just "being yourself." Their Fi will pick up on it and value you more (even if you got nothing physically going on...theoretically).

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    Strats says SEE likes romantic partners who are a challenge to get. She says ILI provide that challenge. I remember I knew an Se ego, probably gamma quadra, girl. At first she was very stuck up looking, had a mean face, acted like she wasn't interested in any guys. One day she bumps into me, like a damn sitcom, and all of the sudden she starts talking to me since then. She started making real strong silent advances on me, we took a group picture with friends and she leaned alllll up on me, she caught me sitting on a couch once and came over and put her legs over my legs. And I always played coy and like I wanted nothing to do with her, mostly because I heard she fooled around with a friend of mine who I thought had an STD (this was all in college). Then one time after college, after not seeing her for awhile, she pops up in some food joint I'm at, and I'm surprised and kinda excited to see her, and it shows on my face, and I could tell that dried up her faster than a sahara desert. Her face went from happy to see me to kinda disappointed. Like, wtf?! Like it felt like she liked the idea that I wasn't easily into her, she liked not knowing if I liked her, she liked my standoffish "go away, what do you want?" side. My guess was that she might have been SEE, but idk, could also have been ESI. This sort of thing happened with an SLE also and she had a whole harem of men around her and dated none of them, she was attractive, but I avoided this girl because she acted like a male rapper. I wasn't charismatic either, or a big personality, I simply was just someone who didn't look at them and immediately start drooling. I actually have known like 5 SXE types that were attracted to me and I virtually did nothing, definitely no charisma involved, I think being an introvert had something to do with it.

    I also knew one ILI girl, who stared at me constantly in a martial arts class with other students. I was a new student and often broke etiquette rules I didn't know aout. There was also another student who also broke rules he knew nothing about, she barely bothered him about it, but she got on my case hard af. It got so bad one time she cursed me out in front of kids in the class, I was like wtffff?! There was no reason for her to be so angry with me either, which left me so damn confused. But even after that she constantly stared at me, almost every time I looked at her, I would see her look away from me real quick. I suspected she was attracted to me or something, I told a friend about it and he goes "She liked you dummy!" but I'm like wtf?! Maybe she was putting up the "challenge" or pseudo-aggressor thing or whatever, but she might have been putting up those barriers to see if I would break through them or something? idk, idk wtf her problem was, I do think it was her fked up way of showing her attraction for someone though, because there were also a few, very few, times where she tried to help me or complimented my progress. Only reason I think she was attracted to me was because I looked like a bigger version of her boyfriend, so it could be Se, it definitely was based off appearance alone, no intellectual connection or anything like many ILIs like to claim. But I also know ILIs not like this so who knows.

    I feel like SEE/ILI duality is like bull meets matador. And Strats also says that ESI/ILI activity relations is ILI expects ESI to be a bull and ESI gives it their best shot but then gets exhausted. But SEE loves it, wants it, I couldn't sustain it for that one girl. because I'm not ILI, and that's another reason it's so confusing to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    Then one time after college, after not seeing her for awhile, she pops up in some food joint I'm at, and I'm surprised and kinda excited to see her, and it shows on my face
    You know it's kind of funny to hear this just because of how polarizing it is, I don't even think it's much of a type thing but no matter how excited I would be to see someone, even if I'm planning to contact them later, I absolutely hate running into people randomly. Normally they see me first but if I saw them I'd instantly think "Why is this person here? Please don't see me. I'm going to text you around 5." "OH hey it's YOU" "...Fuck okay, now we're having lunch I guess."

    Most of these responses definitely take it another direction than I expected. Maybe I was thinking superficially, but I guess that you definitely need time to dualize rather than anything you'd observe from a complete stranger, possibly because that's not an area where socionics takes hold.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @Accipiter, ILI’s have minds that actually work. A mature SEE is going to value that above everything else. Also, SEE’s want to be the only one on stage, and an ILI is happy to let them get all the attention. That is not going to be true of any other type, and the SEE will eventually come to painfully realize this.
    This reminds me of a quote that basically sums up the entire ILI/my mindset. "There is no limit to how far you can go so long as you don't care who gets the credit."

    People like me would rather accomplish our ends the details be damned. Who gives a fuck if our GF or whomever we're involved with gets all the credit and accolades for a given feat so long as that feat was accomplished and it had the result I desired? Better to be forgotten by all (except perhaps some hardcore autistic history professor) and achieve thy goals than to be remembered by everyone who lived thereafter for utterly failing to accomplish your stated goals or worse. I'd rather be forgotten yet successful than remembered by all as an utter failure.

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    SEEs need anchors but they don't want them; they want to be free to experience. It's only when they've been beaten up enough by their unfettered lives that they start looking for protection and home-bases (stability) - many never clue in.....

    a.k.a. I/O
    Last edited by Rebelondeck; 02-24-2020 at 03:04 PM.

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    From my own POV, SEE’s are quite used to getting their own way. They are pushy (if they want to be) and are also quite rash at times. I’ve found if you give them advice about the future they’ll tell you to stop thinking so much about the future and to just enjoy things as they are. I think this is part of their charm, their grounded and present orientated approach appeals to more anxious types. It seems to me that a lot of heterosexual men envy the SEE’s ability to win over women (which a lot of straight SEE men seem to be really good at).

    In a way SEE’s are like small children, they have a constant need to be entertained. I don’t mean this in a mean way either. If you can keep them entertained long enough then there’s a high chance that they’ll probably be interested in you. This is why the victim style of romance is ideal for them. Having someone that keeps you on edge all the time makes life unpredictable and NOT boring. It also makes sense that stimulation is something that they’d seek since quite a lot of SEE’s are enneagram 7’s.

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    I agree with mostly everything written previously but @cookie123 put it best. The people I've been interested in never revealed everything at once and there was always another layer to peel back and learn new things about them. Obviously everyone is more than just the image they project (or you project onto them... Whatever) but some people, including SEEs I think, are more "what you see is what you get", whereas what I'm attracted to is something more reserved and private, like if the person shows a side of themselves only when they're with me -- that's exciting. This is on par with what I've seen ILIs write about themselves on here... They do it because they don't trust everyone, so they don't show everything all at once. Duality, blablabla.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Accipiter View Post

    The closest I can come to understand what role an ILI would fulfill for an SEE is that ILI's are simply a need that SEE's don't understand they have? That's pretty shitty. I'm hoping I can find something more tangible, and so I really welcome any ideas or experiences you have.
    I think this is closest to the truth. As you know duals compensate each other mentally. This creates both the feeling of being balanced and being accepted. It happens automatically without you noticing. I myself see duality primarily as an emergent phenomenon that creates good chemistry and communication. It's not about objective attractive traits in the partner, but more about chemistry.

    Duality is not very tangible imo. The question you ask could be asked about all other dual couples also.

    Of course duals also help each other with their different strengths and behaviour, but imo this is secondary although it can be important in a long term relationship.

    About attraction: duals are not automatically romantically attracted to each other. There are many examples of the opposite. It's just one important factor, but for romantic relationships other factors are needed also. That's outside the scope of socionics.
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Carl Jung on Si)

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    Anything shiny.. Whatever catches their attention at the moment. They're by far the most erratic type imo

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingslayer View Post
    Anything shiny.. Whatever catches their attention at the moment. They're by far the most erratic type imo
    That and slaves. They like slaves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    That and slaves. They like slaves.
    *Must feed TE HA with delegation*

    *nom nom nom*

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingslayer View Post
    *Must feed TE HA with delegation*

    *nom nom nom*
    I've never thought of it that way but it makes perfect sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    That and slaves. They like slaves.
    Yeah, I've hated the ILI typing because it felt dualizing was becoming a slave to SEE's agenda, I mean, I'm willing to help out but I want my life too, not just be a tool for someone else's desires.That's description for ya.
    I guess, what an SEE needs will sounds differently if out of the SEE's perspective or out of someone else, I'm among those who think they need an anchor to fall back to mostly when things go wrong, to help fix things. I'd never see an ILI as intertaining so it's hard to imagine anyone who does. Sometimes, it feels like SEE are moth attracted to a light, I don't know why they do that but I love watching it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phi View Post
    Yeah, I've hated the ILI typing because it felt dualizing was becoming a slave to SEE's agenda, I mean, I'm willing to help out but I want my life too, not just be a tool for someone else's desires.That's description for ya.
    I guess, what an SEE needs will sounds differently if out of the SEE's perspective or out of someone else, I'm among those who think they need an anchor to fall back to mostly when things go wrong, to help fix things. I'd never see an ILI as intertaining so it's hard to imagine anyone who does. Sometimes, it feels like SEE are moth attracted to a light, I don't know why they do that but I love watching it.
    I've had sex with SEEs and it was top notch a couple times. But other than that I'd rather avoid most of them. You're right about them wanting other people to fulfill their desires for them. It's like they rope people into it. It's like some innate selfishness.

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    Wow, thanks a lot guys. I either have been failing at self reflection and I can't see how I'm being innately selfish (which is something I do realize I have to fix about myself, after I was KICKED OUT OF MY 3RD GRADE BFF CLUB BECAUSE I WAS SELFISH!! i am traumatised) or I'm not an SEE at all

    I mean, I don't rope people into fulfilling my desires for me. But I do feel entitled to having the path to me fulfilling my own desires be smooth and without obstacles, and I will loathe and curse and try to burn every single obstacle that comes across my way. Including others trying to achieve their goals, which I could care less about if they're being annoying when I'm trying to do something. Like me being okay with someone relaying information to me but being annoyed when I'm trying to do something and then someone asks me to relay information for them while I'm busy.

    This probably makes zero sense, but oh well, I guess all SEEs are assholes. Which makes me quite sad, because I don't want to be an asshole, but everyone else is an asshole too.

    *proceeds to take everything ever personally*

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    There’s nothing wrong with being selfish. Everyone is selfish. SEEs are often just more honest about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    I've had sex with SEEs and it was top notch a couple times. But other than that I'd rather avoid most of them. You're right about them wanting other people to fulfill their desires for them. It's like they rope people into it. It's like some innate selfishness.
    Hm, I wouldn't say innate selfishness, more a lack of Ni, ya know, consequences of actions. Peeps are selfish, even the selfless ones often have a hidden selfish agenda.
    Like moths, they go towards the light and this light becomes their sole focus, they forget to step back and look around somehow. They can burn out from the light, get lost, lose sight of what is truly important, justify all means with the end. Sometimes, they forget how they got there or why and what's the way back to themselves, they wanted this but it isn't really want they wanted, i.e. dream vs reality. That's why they go well with ILI, the fly on the wall just observing, the fly saw everything and can help them find the way home... if they wish to go back home.

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    I don't know. I'm just glad they're interested in boring old me. I can't talk for the SEE's perspective but I am guarded if only because I imagine that the more I reveal, the less I have to offer. If I have something pleasant to offer, great. If I have a flaw to share, then I am being emotionally vulnerable and perhaps this gesture is appreciated from a conqueror's point of view. Maybe the joy for them is in breaking down the walls of this highly skeptical person, getting them to trust you, and once they have figured out everything about that person, spit him out and look for a different meal? Even if they lose interest, at least it would be exciting for both parties for a short while.

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    last SEE I dated kept saying I was so slim (I'm normal but his wife is obese), guess that's what attracted him, lol

    oh, and I guess the old chasing the impossible, risk taking, the fact I was very critical and avoidant of him were all things that made him aroused... and all things considered, I guess SEE are attracted by a sense of power the most. I guess that comes easy with NI doms.

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    It does look really selfish on the surface. I had an SEE roommate for 2+ years and was convinced he was a narcissist until I learned that's just how SEE's are. In my experience it was like a "me first" attitude towards life plus either not caring or not noticing the consequences of your actions. It's like a group package and the good qualities can't exist the same way without those as well, which is part of the reason it seems like everyone is ready to give them a free pass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Accipiter View Post
    It does look really selfish on the surface. I had an SEE roommate for 2+ years and was convinced he was a narcissist until I learned that's just how SEE's are. In my experience it was like a "me first" attitude towards life plus either not caring or not noticing the consequences of your actions. It's like a group package and the good qualities can't exist the same way without those as well, which is part of the reason it seems like everyone is ready to give them a free pass.
    Mostly because I assume everyone else is this way too. Why WOULDN'T you look out for yourself, and do the utmost to achieve what you want? I thought about it since I wrote my previous post, and I think that it's not really selfishness from the SEE perspective. It's just the way things are. If I tell you to do something, and you do it... That's on YOU, not me. Because if someone else tells me to do something and I don't want to do it, I sure as hell will say no... Lol. Obviously socionics has made me aware some people find that really hard, though. So I'm trying to think about it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Accipiter View Post
    It does look really selfish on the surface. I had an SEE roommate for 2+ years and was convinced he was a narcissist until I learned that's just how SEE's are. In my experience it was like a "me first" attitude towards life plus either not caring or not noticing the consequences of your actions. It's like a group package and the good qualities can't exist the same way without those as well, which is part of the reason it seems like everyone is ready to give them a free pass.
    Npd diagnosis existed long before socionics. Dont let a theory on personality cognition excuse or dismiss objective criteria for NPD.

    Anyone can be npd but it manifests itself differently based on type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingslayer View Post
    Npd diagnosis existed long before socionics. Dont let a theory on personality cognition excuse or dismiss objective criteria for NPD.

    Anyone can be npd but it manifests itself differently based on type.
    That's the thing is it wasn't objective criteria, it was only my own at a time when I was less understanding of others. If I walked around leaving a trail of fire in my path, that would make me a narcissist, but it doesn't necessarily mean that everyone who does is one.

    Quote Originally Posted by voider View Post
    Mostly because I assume everyone else is this way too. Why WOULDN'T you look out for yourself, and do the utmost to achieve what you want? I thought about it since I wrote my previous post, and I think that it's not really selfishness from the SEE perspective. It's just the way things are. If I tell you to do something, and you do it... That's on YOU, not me. Because if someone else tells me to do something and I don't want to do it, I sure as hell will say no... Lol. Obviously socionics has made me aware some people find that really hard, though. So I'm trying to think about it
    I agree that it isn't selfishness from the SEE's point of view, and that's what I failed to understand when I first met one. It's also a little bit bigger than just saying yes or no to a request. It's like SEE's think that "more is always better" while ignoring marginal cost in their plans, and then only when it's right in front of them they finally see it and tell everyone else involved in their own idea "nope, nevermind". In a negative sense it seems flippant or superficial (and will rub people the wrong way but less so if the behavior was from another type like an LSI), but it's just a strange byproduct of being both carefree and confident. Like where you say "that's on you, not me", I've heard that before as "That's their problem, not mine!"

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    I think another thing that draws SEE to their dual or people in general is if someone has "faith" in them. I think Ni suggestive needs people to have faith in them, and what I mean is for someone to see potential in them without immediate evidence, which is what Ni is built to do, as opposed to Ne. I've seen this with a few Se doms, where someone having "faith" in them gave them energy, especially SLE.

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    To add to all that has been said, S-doms in general have a limited ability to perceive patterns and to abstract, whether about themselves or about things. They literally just do what they feel like/react to the world. It's like they lack a "point of view on the world/themselves" from which to evaluate what matters and what not, and they are drawn towards people that can give them that. (ironically, @Accipiter when you say that you perceived SEEs as selfish, you actually give them a perspective) N-doms can just force their "visions/perceptions" on other people, so I guess that's why they are S-dom's duals.

    Quote Originally Posted by voider View Post
    Mostly because I assume everyone else is this way too. Why WOULDN'T you look out for yourself, and do the utmost to achieve what you want? I thought about it since I wrote my previous post, and I think that it's not really selfishness from the SEE perspective. It's just the way things are. If I tell you to do something, and you do it... That's on YOU, not me. Because if someone else tells me to do something and I don't want to do it, I sure as hell will say no... Lol. Obviously socionics has made me aware some people find that really hard, though. So I'm trying to think about it
    And where is the "doing the utmost to achieve your desires" going to lead you? If you think that the pursuit of pleasure is the goal of life, you'll be pretty miserable each time you don't get your way. That actually doesn't sound like control. Do you even know if you're running towards or away from something?
    Your freedom is an illusion, like Schopenhauer said, "a man can do what he wants, but not want what he wants".

    Jg djwjmjabujpo jt up tvswjwf, xf nvtu dvmujwbuf uif tdjfodf pg ivnbo sfmbujpotijqt - uif bcjmjuz pg bmm qfpqmft, pg bmm ljoet, up mjwf uphfuifs, jo uif tbnf xpsme bu qfbdf.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    To add to all that has been said, S-doms in general have a limited ability to perceive patterns and to abstract, whether about themselves or about things. They literally just do what they feel like/react to the world.
    Wow. What you wrote here sounds like a Tumblr MBTI description.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    To add to all that has been said, S-doms in general have a limited ability to perceive patterns and to abstract, whether about themselves or about things
    You know, I'd swear I once read a socionics article claiming people your type had the hardest time describing themselves. Like unable to notice clear patterns, they just see 'many things' in themselves.

    Please, tell us you don't really think a SEE needs someone else to understand if they are being selfish. Any sensor can spot their weakness if the self search. As can anyone.

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    @lkdhf qkb Lmfao, who asked? Sounds like you're bitter. I never said anything abt pleasure, btw. What I want sometimes is the opposite of pleasure -- it's hard work on myself and my environment in order to better myself and others, which is a long and painful process, in which you bet I've become aware of my own shortcomings -- probably much better than what you could pseudo psychoanalyse in this thread. That's probably your own projection on this, because you feel like you CAN'T get the things you want, and feel bad about the fact that life is not all pleasure (some pseudo psychoanalysis in turn)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    That and slaves. They like slaves.
    Who doesn't want to be an SEE's sex slave?
    I was a Democratic caucus. Have you ever been to a caucus? No you haven't. You're a lying dog-faced pony soldier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Who doesn't want to be an SEE's sex slave?
    I don't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by voider View Post
    @lkdhf qkb Lmfao, who asked?
    I was actually trying to determine what SEEs(and S-doms in general) find attractive in ILIs(N-doms). If SEEs are all self-reflection champions, then why are ILIs (who are doing that the whole day) their duals? What would they contribute to SEEs? That's related to the original question of the thread, right?


    Quote Originally Posted by voider View Post
    Sounds like you're bitter. I never said anything abt pleasure, btw. What I want sometimes is the opposite of pleasure -- it's hard work on myself and my environment in order to better myself and others, which is a long and painful process, in which you bet I've become aware of my own shortcomings -- probably much better than what you could pseudo psychoanalyse in this thread. That's probably your own projection on this, because you feel like you CAN'T get the things you want, and feel bad about the fact that life is not all pleasure (some pseudo psychoanalysis in turn)
    Sorry, I wasn’t trying to attack your way of life, I just wrote what came to my mind. Yeah, the pleasure thing was kind of a shot in the dark. Great if it doesn’t apply to you, means I’m just a fool rambling to himself, which is better than the alternative.


    Be aware though that I just meant to say “you can’t always have what you want” not “you will never have what you want”. To me, that definitely sounds less bitter and disillusioned than “I will loathe and curse and try to burn every single obstacle that comes across my way. Including others trying to achieve their goals, which I could care less about if they're being annoying when I'm trying to do something.” Or “I don't want to be an asshole, but everyone else is an asshole too”.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusal View Post
    You know, I'd swear I once read a socionics article claiming people your type had the hardest time describing themselves. Like unable to notice clear patterns, they just see 'many things' in themselves.
    Yeah, I definitely relate to the first sentence. However, I think it’s less a question of ability than of self-control. My drive to see connections is so high that I just never want to stop.

    You know what? Maybe that’s actually the relevant distinction between S-dom and N-dom. Maybe it’s not so much a question of abilities than of drive. What I really like about S-doms is that they always push all these sensations on me. I mean, I have a sense of sight, of smell and of touch, alright, (in the same way as you guys can perceive patterns) but I just forget to actively use those most of the time. S-doms, on the other hand, “can’t stop sensing”. Just hanging out with them is cool: “Look at that! Smell that! Go this way!”.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusal View Post
    Please, tell us you don't really think a SEE needs someone else to understand if they are being selfish. Any sensor can spot their weakness if the self search. As can anyone.
    Haha don’t take me so seriously.

    Nevertheless, you definitely need to place yourself in other people’s shoes and to perceive yourself ‘from the outside’ to see yourself as selfish. In fact, you always need to be “someone else” to perceive yourself. Anyone who perceives himself as selfish is being someone else at that moment.
    Don’t you find this is in contradiction with a “you gotta take what you want even if it’s at the expense of other people” mindset? Why would some who believes that, actually want to consider things from another’s point of view? Again, maybe not a question of ability but of motivation.


    Ok, I'll admit, I was half trolling/half wrong.
    Jg djwjmjabujpo jt up tvswjwf, xf nvtu dvmujwbuf uif tdjfodf pg ivnbo sfmbujpotijqt - uif bcjmjuz pg bmm qfpqmft, pg bmm ljoet, up mjwf uphfuifs, jo uif tbnf xpsme bu qfbdf.
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    What are SEE's drawn towards in romantic partners?

    I had an SEE-Se female friend and when adult, she felt attracted to introverted men who were like interesting in the sense of saying deep stuff about things. Like philosophy and that were in spiritual esque stuff. They like someone who can "read" into things not just keep with whats outside but what's going on inside, in that what SEE can't read or penetrate into.
    I also know an ESI female and she really seem to need Te advice on business. Like if you do X with this money you have you will get more money. That kind of thing.
    SEEs (both sexes) can talk and talk about their plans in hopes of getting some useful feedback (sometimes they dont listen to it, though). They also need help in organization and administration of finances, setting the right prices, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by voider View Post
    Mostly because I assume everyone else is this way too. Why WOULDN'T you look out for yourself, and do the utmost to achieve what you want? I thought about it since I wrote my previous post, and I think that it's not really selfishness from the SEE perspective. It's just the way things are. If I tell you to do something, and you do it... That's on YOU, not me. Because if someone else tells me to do something and I don't want to do it, I sure as hell will say no... Lol. Obviously socionics has made me aware some people find that really hard, though. So I'm trying to think about it
    As I like to tell anyone who'll listen, life's a game and you cannot "not" play. Every attempt to not play, to prove my point, can be and actually is a workable way to play it (e.g. my strategy of absolute and total honesty at all times). If the person you're telling to do a thing cannot figure out that it's either stupid, unreasonable, or is otherwise a request for them to screw themselves over royally in a very obvious fashion yet they try to fulfill the request anyway? Yeah, on them mostly. Mostly. Pretty faces and/or hot bods can and will gunk up the mental gears in even the best of us .

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