Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 126

Thread: FULL 40Q. Please help type me. TIA

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    TIM
    ESI
    Posts
    103
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default FULL 40Q. Please help type me. TIA

    Te Block

    1. What is work in your opinion? Why do people go to work? Are there any parameters where you can distinguish whether you can do this work or not?

    Work is the exchange of time for money or the expectation of future money. (I'd say labor for money, but we all know (or have been) seatwarmers.)

    People go to work to get money. (Even people who enjoy their work wouldn't do it if they weren't paid.)

    People sometimes view unpaid but demanding activities as work, e.g. side projects outside of work, raising children, serious hobbies, etc. but I would not classify these as work because you are not exchanging time for money or the expectation of future money. If you were working on your own business outside of work, that does have the expectation of future money.

    I can easily tell if I can do a certain task or not. I know what skills I have and what kinds of skills I can learn quickly and easily.

    2. How do people determine the quality of work? How do you determine such quality? How well you can determine the quality of any purchase, do you pay any attention to it?


    Quality: Other people - whether it meets certain criteria or furthers certain objectives. Me - I have my own higher standards on top of that. Lol. But if it's at work, my bare minimum is to meet the company's desired objectives for that task.

    Purchase: cost-benefit analysis. If I have some specific criteria I'm looking for, I can check the item against my criteria. I don't really pay attention unless something actually malfunctions and I have to go through some warranty claim process.

    3. There is a professional right next to you. You always see that you can't perform the way they do. Your feelings, thoughts and actions?


    I'd look up some documentation so I can learn on my own and be able to perform well. If I couldn't find any documentation, I'd ask them for some. If there is no documentation, I'd have them teach me. I'm confident I can pick it up quickly and I'm a fast learner, so I wouldn't feel bad or anything. When the roles are reversed, I don't mind helping others learn too.

    4. If you struggle to do something, what can you say about such a task? Tell us your next steps and give examples. Compare with actions of others in a similar situation.


    If I struggle to do something, I research (using documentation, online and text resources, etc.) to figure out how to do it better. Last resort is to ask someone how to do it better. Some others seem to ask for help before trying to solve it on their own.

    Usually, I learn quickly. But if I continue to struggle, and I can see I'm not well-suited for the task, I'll look for someone to trade with so I can do their task and they can do the task I'm struggling with.

    5. You need to build a pyramid exactly like in Egypt. Your thoughts, feelings and actions?


    I'd research to understand the specifications, e.g. which materials are used, the tolerances required, etc. and probably also consult with local experts in Egypt. Then apply modern building methods. IDK anything about that field, so that would be something more to learn/research. Probably could do it way faster and more safely with modern methods though.

    But in reality, I'd just decline the task. I don't see the point rebuilding monuments that already exist in exactly the same fashion.


    Ti Block


    1. General to specific, specific to general – what does it mean? Give examples.

    Class to instance, instance to class. e.g. I am an instance of the class "person" as well as "reddit user" (which would be a subclass of person). I am not an instance of the class "bot"!

    2. What does "logical" mean? What is your understanding? Do you think that it correlates with the common view? Is it is easy for you to be logical?


    An argument is "logical" if and only if it is deductively valid and sound, meaning that the conclusion derives from the premises and all the premises are true. I think this correlates with the common view.

    In the case of a logical structure, it has to have a reasonable inheritance structure- e.g. "dog" inherits from "mammal" and not from "human" or something. This is already covered in the next questions.

    Yes, it's easy for me to be logical in that I can easily tell if the premises of an argument jointly logically entail the conclusion and I can easily tell also if there are some logically inconsistent/contradictory/incompatible claims being made. I can also tell if two claims are truly logically identical vs. if they are different, even very subtly different.

    A person is "logical" if (but not only if, as I'm open to other definitions) they apply a logically consistent set of rules* in a consistent manner across different situations. This I think does not correlate with the common view. Most people think of "consistency" as behaving the same way in every situation, which is not the same as logical consistency across situations.

    *Note that this is not necessarily the same set of rules, though I think that's the ideal. I have few sets of rules (or frameworks) that are intended to persist across situations, and I add to them and change them relatively easily though carefully, and removals are uncommon.

    3. What is hierarchy? Give examples of hierarchies. Do you need to follow it? Why or why not? Give example of hierarchy of systems, what is it?


    Hierarchical inheritance structure with classes and subclasses that inherit from them for as many "generations" as needed. e.g. Subclasses "reddit user" and "typology enthusiast" inherit from "person" i.e. they are subclasses of "person". It's also possible for a subclass to have more than one parent class, e.g. "cat" subclass has parent classes "terrestrial mammal" and "quadrupedal mammal" while both "terrestrial mammal" and "quadrupedal mammal" have parent class "mammal". (There are other ways to structure that information, it's just an example.)

    I think you need to follow some hierarchies like these, but you create them as needed. This comes up a lot when programming for instance. Every project gets its own logical structure(s). Outside of that, it's still essentially the same pattern of having a broader parent class, subclasses within those, etc., and ultimately, instances as above.

    4. Choose one of the following tasks and give a detailed answer. Explain your choice.


    How do you explain fractions on the dial of the clock?

    The dial of a clock is divided into 12 equal fractions, each of which represents 1 hour. Each of those hours is divided into 60 equal fractions, each of which represents 1 minute. Then each minute is, in turn, divided into 60 equal fractions again, each of which represents 1 second. In total, then, the dial of a clock represents 12 hours, 12x60 minutes, and 12x60x60 seconds. In a 24-hour day, the hour-hand revolves around the clock twice, the minute-hand revolves around the clock 24x60 times, and the second-hand revolves around the clock 24x60x60 times.

    Explanation: I accidentally deleted the rest of the question and cba to find it again. Btw sorry if there is some other part to this question that I missed lol

    5. Do you frequently feel the need to structure information? For what purpose? How do people usually do it? How do you do it?


    I frequently structure information. The purpose is to understand things, to come to viewpoints and conclusions about the world or about specific topics/subjects or questions. In my experience, people usually do it by memorizing rules that they can apply later, instead of actually understanding the subject. I used to be a tutor, and I encountered many bright students who nevertheless preferred this memorization approach. I prefer to understand the fundamental principles on which something operates, and then I can make any subsequent decisions based on those fundamental principles. In college, whenever I had the opportunity to memorize as little as possible and derive the rest, I took it.


    Se Block


    1. Can you press people? What methods do you use? If so, how does it happen?

    Yes, I sometimes press people. If something they said doesn't add up, I press them by asking questions to get the missing information. I can't describe in detail how I do it*, but I almost picture myself like a lawyer conducting an aggressive, but effective, cross-examination. :P

    I had a boss who would say one thing and do another, or say one thing and then immediately say another thing, and he'd claim he never contradicted himself. I would regularly press him on the contradictions and point out to him how he had contradicted himself. (Surprisingly, he was receptive to this.)

    Similarly, I have family members who say one thing while believing another. I can tell this from other things they say. I can basically interpolate the missing premises. Then I press them likewise.

    *Adding in response to a previous comment on another website: To clarify the pressing, I think it's primarily Ti-driven because it's related to the inconsistencies, and I'd add that it's related to correcting people more generally too. But I do think Ti is recruiting Se, which is why I wrote about it in the Se block. As I press people, I am very direct and assertive. I don't know exactly where the line is between assertive and aggressive, so I tend to stay on the conservative side. But in general, I don't have a problem digging in my heels and standing my ground. I do feel a bit "fake" when I do it though, like I'm putting on an act, but I can do it.

    2. Are there strategies of attack? Can you use them? When is it justified? Do you think it's ok to occupy someone else's territory? In what situations?


    I usually "attack" by finding a loophole of some kind, doing whatever I was going to do anyway, and then justifying it using the loophole.

    It's justified when the rules to which I'm finding a loophole are not logical ("logical" as defined in the Ti block question).

    You can occupy someone else's property (I'm deliberately interpreting "territory" as property here) if they invited you there. Or maybe in an emergency. Or if there is some kind of implied consent.

    3. How do you protect yourself and your interests?


    My professional and financial interests are protected because my skillset is in high demand, I keep learning, and I'm a fast learner. I've always been "good with money" in the sense of easily keeping within budget. I've also educated myself on investing for retirement. I buy insurances. I live in a safe area so I don't worry that much about being attacked or something.

    4. Describe your behavior in situations of opposition and if you have to use some force?


    I don't put myself into situations of opposition. I'm not easily intimidated, so in most situations it's fine, e.g. at work if someone's trying to intimidate or pressure me into doing something, I brush it off and keep doing whatever I was going to do anyway. But at work, there is no real physical threat. I avoid situations (really, entire classes of situations) where I sense there is a real physical threat.

    5. Do others think of you as a strong person? Do you think you are a strong person?


    Physically, not a chance, lmao. But people do know that I am very capable of working around, if not through, obstacles that come my way, so in that sense, they would say I am strong. I don't see it as strong really, just living my life.


    Si Block


    1. What is beauty? Do you change your opinion about beauty? Does your understanding correlate with the generally accepted notion? What goes beyond the generally accepted notion?

    In one definition, that which is aesthetically pleasing is beautiful.

    This definition can change by context. For instance, in the data science community (that's my line of work btw), there is a focus on presenting data nicely but also accurately, so that it doesn't muddle or misrepresent findings. My understanding correlates with that of other people in my field.

    In a completely different context, my cat is beautiful. She is all black and has bright, golden eyes. Very cute cat (not precisely the same as beautiful but it'll suffice). Correlates with generally accepted notion as most people find cats cute.

    I've heard some beautiful songs. Correlates with generally accepted notion as these are popular songs, and in particular, the classical ones have been popular for centuries.
    I find airplanes beautiful. I know lots of other aviation enthusiasts who feel the same way, so correlates with accepted notion.

    I find well-structured stuff beautiful. e.g. Buildings like the Eiffel Tower, and theories like Socionics itself, which is beautifully structured and internally symmetrical. Not sure if that correlates.

    2. Is there a template of understanding what beautiful means for everyone to use? Is there such a term as "classic beauty"? If so, what is it?


    No, there is no template IMO - it's in the eye of the beholder. Classic beauty refers to subdued, clean, simple, elegant styles.

    3. How do you create your comfort and coziness? How do others evaluate your skill in doing so? Do you agree with them?


    I'm careful to keep ergonomic desk setups at home and at work, so that I don't develop a repetitive stress injury. So far, so good. I also wear comfortable clothes and shoes because I don't want them to distract me while working.

    Others don't evaluate my skill in doing so because others do not come to my house ever, at work most people also have ergonomic setups (my company offers evaluations and encourages us to have them), and to be honest, other people know better than to comment on my clothing. :P

    4. How do you pick your own clothes? Do you follow fashion? Why? Do you know how to select clothes for different types of figures?


    I balance the aforementioned comfort against the business casual requirements of my workplace. Since my first job out of college (I'm in my 30s now, for context), I just tried to match what others wear. I don't really care to analyze this though so I only keep like 7 or 8 total "outfits" that I rotate through.

    The only time I have to dress up is when interviewing or when a client is coming to our office. I have one "good suit" for this. This suit has been tailored and I think it looks good, though I did get several opinions on this one. But it's just one suit. I wear it like once every 6 months.

    I could probably learn how to select clothes for different figures, but again, doesn't interest me to learn this.

    5. Tell us how you'd design any room, house or an office. Do you do it yourself or trust someone else to do it? Why?


    I could learn to do it but I don't really care, so apart from having an ergonomic work area, and a huge ultrawide monitor :P, I just wouldn't bother designing it myself or hiring someone else to do it.


    Fe Block

    1. Is it acceptable to express emotions in public? Give examples of inappropriate expression of emotions.

    Yes, of course. Inappropriate: laughing at a funeral, laughing excessively at work, screaming at coworker

    2. Think of such negative emotional states as sadness, gloom, and despondence.


    --Can you, at your own will, enter these states? If not, then when do you feel them?

    Not sure but I don't think so. I feel sad if I'm interacting with someone who seems sad, but I feel less sad than they seem. But I do naturally experience some of their emotions too.
    In a positive situation, I can be genuinely happy with someone who is also happy, for sure. My brother got married last year and I was genuinely happy for him and SIL, who is also great. So the positive side is way easier for me.
    --How long can you stay in such states?
    Normally, not long at all. If something unusual has happened, like death in the family, then I will be sad for a while.
    --How can you withdraw from them?
    I don't withdraw from them consciously, I just forget easily about them.
    --Can they be pleasant, soothing?
    No lol
    --How do you feel after you have experienced them?
    Back to normal. Normally, I have no discernible emotional state.

    3. How quickly can you change emotional state? To what side – positive or negative?


    I get very excited sometimes and I'm very easily excitable, but then it dies down almost immediately too. So very quickly. And I guess excitement is positive.

    4. What emotional state is usual for you? Does your internal emotional state correlate with what you show externally?


    Normally, I have no discernible emotional state. But no, I do seem to still express emotions. I hadn't realized this until I saw myself on a video and I was very surprised, but I'm not robotic at all, I look pretty normal when I'm talking.

    5. Tell us about your moods over the last day.


    "Null value" has been my mood. That's what it is basically always, unless I get suddenly excited. But then it goes back to "null value" after that too.


    Fi Block


    1. Tell us how did you build relationships with others over the last day.

    I didn't even interact with any other people over the last day. :P

    2. What is sympathy? When do you need to express it? When is it advised not to? How do you express it?

    Sympathy is what I mentioned above where I'm talking to someone who seems sad so I also feel a little bit sad. I don't "try" to express it or "need" to express it but it does happen pretty naturally for me, I just feel less sad than they seem to be. Then I think other people can tell that I also feel a little bit sad, so they feel connected to me because of that, which I guess is good. Then I can give them advice or suggest solutions to their problem that is making them sad. If it's not a fixable problem though, like their relative died or something, it's extremely difficult for me to handle this, and I just want to leave the situation, to be honest.

    3. Are there any standards of behavior for interpersonal relationships in society? If so, do you adhere to them? Do people always have to maintain them? Why?


    No. I think adults who are in a consensual relationship have the right to determine for themselves the expectations within their relationship.

    4. What does moral mean? What is immoral? How do you understand these terms and does your understanding correlate with the others? How can you evaluate the correctness of your own understanding?


    I think moral/immoral is not a useful distinction. Instead, I judge if things are fair or unfair.

    I define fairness as consistency of treatment. In the Ti block, I already discussed logical consistency. When applied to the treatment of people, they must also be treated consistently, meaning fairly and impartially.

    I evaluate the correctness of my own understanding against theories I studied in the past (and still currently although I don't have as much time now). I also check against reality to see how my view of fair vs. unfair holds up to real life.

    5. Somebody is giving you a negative attitude – what is your reaction? Could you show your own negative attitude toward someone else? If so, how? Could you feel ill-disposed towards somebody for a long time? How easily do you forgive people?


    I would just brush off a really negative attitude. I don't feel ill-disposed towards people generally and it's hard for me to "hold a grudge" in the first place, so I don't need to forgive people.


    Ne Block


    1. Is there a meaning of life? In what? Is it the same for everybody?

    I don't think there is a singular meaning of life for everyone. I also don't think it's important to find a singular meaning to your own life. Just do what you want, as long as your behavior is fair, and consistent with basic principles like pluralism and informed consent (I have a comprehensive (though incomplete) theory on the subjects, but I'm trying to summarize quickly here without getting too in-depth). Personally, as long as I make a net positive impact on the world in my lifetime, I'm happy.

    2. When you meet a stranger, what can you say about them right away? How do you know what this person is all about? Does it take long to understand someone's traits?


    Well, once you talk to someone, they'll say stuff, and from there you can guess a little bit about what their interests are, and from there guess other interests and their general tendencies. As you talk more, you can figure out how they think (I don't mean typology here :P) and how they approach stuff in their life. No, it doesn't take long to understand someone's overall traits.

    3. What is imagination? Do all people have imagination and can fantasize? What is your fantasizing like?


    Imagination is perception of anything other than the literal reality. By this definition, everyone has imagination. Everyone I know has imaginations about their past, present, future. About themselves and other people, the world, ...

    I don't actively "fantasize". My imagination, if I'm going to call it that, is just always going on in the background. Like I'm aware of it but it's a background awareness by default. I can focus on it and bring it forward/into the foreground. I rarely do this as I don't need to actively imagine to still have imagination as defined above. Anyway, this background imagination is basically merged with reality, like an augmented reality. I don't really separate it from reality. (But I'm not delusional at all, as I'll explain in a second. :P)

    4. What do you think of people (or yourself) who distinctively stand out in a crowd, differ from others? What is a measure of such distinction, how can this difference be feasible and how not?

    Everyone stands out in some way. Like at work, everyone has some strengths, some weaknesses- if you're reading this questionnaire, you already know this very well. :P There are more specific strengths/weaknesses too that aren't about typology. But by default, I don't think about specific people in this way. If someone specifically asks me something about this, then sure, I can think about them/their life. But by default, I don't.

    In a nearby possible world, I'm probably a career advisor. I could do that well. (Actually...I know I said I didn't think about this, lol, but I forgot that I'm part of a professional group and I do advise younger professionals and college students on their career paths...) ...And in another, I'm that cross-examining lawyer I mentioned in the Se block who presses inconsistent witnesses on the stand... And in another, I stayed in philosophy (one of my majors in undergrad) and went into academia... And in another, I'm a troll on YouTube. :P

    To be honest, I want to edit out the tangent in the previous paragraph, but I think that tangent will provide information that you need to fully assess my answer to this question.

    5. Ideas do not have to be correct in order to be good. What's your attitude towards this statement?


    "Good" is an unnecessary value judgment to apply to an idea. I think we need to separate the notions of interesting, correct, and practical ideas from each other.

    "Interesting" means it sparked someone's curiosity. All ideas start in this category. By default, they are "interesting". They require further checking to see if they are "correct" or "practical". But they can be taken as "interesting" ideas in and of themselves, too.

    "Correct" means the idea is logically compatible with some underlying theory or with some other ideas, depending on the context in which the judgment of correctness is made. A "correct" idea may not be "practical", but I still consider "correct" ideas useful towards building or checking theories. Few ideas are in this category.

    "Practical" means the idea has some pragmatic or actionable value, e.g. as a business idea or a new project at work. Surprisingly many ideas (maybe 10%, which sounds like a small fraction but amounts to a decent number in absolute terms) are "practical", or can be part of some other "practical" idea. But pragmatic is a better word since they are probably not immediately, hands-on "practical", but more pragmatic over several months or years of implementation or something like that. And these ideas require a lot of checking to make sure that they are REALLY pragmatic in reality.

    I am incredibly selective with which of these "practical" ideas I pursue. Tbh, I feel like most of my waking hours are spent checking the pragmatism of various ideas that I think of during the day, and choosing between them. (And that's why I'm not delusional. :P)

    Most of the ideas I think of during the day, I have to quickly dismiss, because I just don't have time to check everything- on first glance, if an idea (again, by default "interesting") doesn't seem likely to turn out as "correct" or "practical", I dismiss it quickly. I still sometimes discuss them with others for fun, or I start discussions online about them. But there are a lot, so a list of "unposted" "interesting"-only ideas and drafts piles up.


    Ni Block


    1. How people change? How do you feel about those changes? Can others see the changes?

    I don't expect people to remain exactly the same, so I don't really notice when they change. I assume they do. I don't feel like I've changed that much since I was 16 and I'm in my 30s now. But I don't know how other people would evaluate these changes. I don't know how other people feel about changes or what they see/don't see, I don't discuss this with other people.

    2. What is time? How do you feel time? Can you waste time?


    Time is an ultimately arbitrary concept that was invented for society to function properly. It's defined by the rotation of the earth about its axis, the revolution of the earth about the sun, and the revolution of the moon about the earth. Weeks were invented for...well, I'm not sure why, maybe it's got something to do with various religions that have religious days of the week.

    I don't feel time at all.

    I waste time, for example, doing this. :P But really, I enjoy it, I'm learning stuff so it's not a waste.

    3. Do you need help creating forecasts and determining how something will end? Do you trust those forecasts?


    I can tell how something will end, and I trust this.

    4. Are you normally late? How do you react if someone is late?


    No. I arrive just on time, usually, unless it's a super important occasion like a job interview, then I get there a bit early just in case. If someone else is late, I usually don't care, but if they're extremely late, I'll just call/text and then leave.

    5. Imagine the situation where you agreed to meet with someone. Your feelings and actions:


    a) 20 minutes before the meeting starts,

    Depends on how far it is from my house/where I am currently though. But ok, 20 minutes before I'll probably head out.
    b) 5 minutes before the meeting starts,
    I'm usually nearly there or already there. Not thinking about it.
    c) it is time for the meeting to start, but the person is not here,
    Ok. No big deal.
    d) 20 minutes after the meeting start time and the person is not here,
    Text/call. Find out what is going on and if they're still planning to come. Already making alternative plans- thinking of other things I can do nearby if the friend doesn't show.
    e) more time and the person is still not here
    After 30 mins to an hour, I'd do a final text/call that I'm leaving. Do one of the alternative plans.

  2. #2
    Northstar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    TIM
    LSI-Se
    Posts
    158
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    LII, the software programming analogues and description of Se usage are clear giveaways. I interact daily with several LII at work that I get a similar feeling about.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    TIM
    ESI
    Posts
    103
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Thank you @Northstar.

    Looking for feedback from other users if possible. Thanks!

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    125
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Just out of curiosity... do you still have difficulty seeing Ne in yourself, as per your other thread? Just looking at the amount of text in the Ne thread versus the others. Also, bringing up a possibility -> evaluating it for logical consistency -> another possibility -> evaluating it for logical consistency, Ti-Ne, iteration, is a common theme throughout this whole questionnaire.

    As far as Se - you mentioned it as digging in your heels and being assertive, but I do not think it is physically assertive, or forcing people to your will... there is still an element of trying to convince them, to show them how their conclusion is incorrect by asking questions.

    Yes, I sometimes press people. If something they said doesn't add up, I press them by asking questions to get the missing information. I can't describe in detail how I do it*, but I almost picture myself like a lawyer conducting an aggressive, but effective, cross-examination.
    I do think LII is also a good fit, though take it with a grain of salt, as I am relatively new to Socionics.

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    TIM
    ESI
    Posts
    103
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    @remiges

    Thanks! :)

    Yes, I still have difficulty recognizing Ne in myself. Checking again now, you're right, the Ne block is indeed longer. But, as I mentioned in the Ne block, I think it's generally in the background, almost like an Id block function. In general, possibilities, ideas, etc. spontaneously occur to me throughout the day, but I very rarely consciously generate them unless specifically prompted. That's why I don't relate to Ne.

    It's not possible within the theory to have Id Ne and Ego Ti. So, I'm still curious how a supposedly Ego block function can be nearly unconscious by default unless I deliberately bring it into consciousness. :P

    Quote Originally Posted by remiges
    Also, bringing up a possibility -> evaluating it for logical consistency -> another possibility -> evaluating it for logical consistency, Ti-Ne, iteration, is a common theme throughout this whole questionnaire.
    Thanks for bringing this to my attention as well, as I hadn't noticed this either. From my POV, I didn't generate any possibilities in writing this questionnaire.

    My understanding is that only the base function should be omnipresent throughout the questionnaire. So I find it interesting, though still consistent with an LII typing, that both Ti and Ne were omnipresent throughout the questionnaire.

    Also, I think the iteration "should" be inverted with Ti first: state a logical rule/principle -> bring up possibilities about it -> state another logical rule/principle -> bring up possibilities about it. But tbh, I didn't see it either way, and, on reflection, I would lean towards your version being more accurate.

    As far as Se - you mentioned it as digging in your heels and being assertive, but I do not think it is physically assertive, or forcing people to your will... there is still an element of trying to convince them, to show them how their conclusion is incorrect by asking questions.
    The reason I don't relate to Se PoLR is because of the opposite situation: when someone tries to demand something from me, push me around, or confront me. Then I insist on my position. I expect the other person to reason with me first. But if they don't make any argument, and just try to intimidate me, I'll withstand the pressure. However, I really choose my battles with this, and my first preference is still to find an alternative around the obstacle. But if I've already determined there is no other way (uncommon), then I can and will stand up for myself and my positions. I'm not able to completely *force* people to my will, but I've never had to.

    I don't relate to Ne PoLR at all but I mostly don't relate to Se PoLR either. I also don't relate at all to Ni or Si, so I can't differentiate by HA.

    Thanks again! :)

  6. #6
    Northstar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    TIM
    LSI-Se
    Posts
    158
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redundantoxymoron View Post
    The reason I don't relate to Se PoLR is because of the opposite situation: when someone tries to demand something from me, push me around, or confront me. Then I insist on my position. I expect the other person to reason with me first. But if they don't make any argument, and just try to intimidate me, I'll withstand the pressure. However, I really choose my battles with this, and my first preference is still to find an alternative around the obstacle. But if I've already determined there is no other way (uncommon), then I can and will stand up for myself and my positions. I'm not able to completely *force* people to my will, but I've never had to.
    This still sounds a lot like LII to me. You aren’t pushovers, pretty stubborn actually. But the PoLR is more evident in not being able to force through and be pushy if someone else is slacking, resists or won’t accept logic. Also overreacting to physical horseplay for example.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    125
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redundantoxymoron View Post
    The reason I don't relate to Se PoLR is because of the opposite situation: when someone tries to demand something from me, push me around, or confront me. Then I insist on my position. I expect the other person to reason with me first. But if they don't make any argument, and just try to intimidate me, I'll withstand the pressure. However, I really choose my battles with this, and my first preference is still to find an alternative around the obstacle. But if I've already determined there is no other way (uncommon), then I can and will stand up for myself and my positions. I'm not able to completely *force* people to my will, but I've never had to.
    I think that is true of all introverted judging types - they know what they personally believe or personally think is accurate.

    Finding an alternative around the obstacle, wanting to find another way is Ne... but you’re still a judging type and once the options run out you’ll still stick to that judgment at the end of the day, rather than change your mind.

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    TIM
    ESI
    Posts
    103
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    This still sounds a lot like LII to me. You aren’t pushovers, pretty stubborn actually. But the PoLR is more evident in not being able to force through and be pushy if someone else is slacking, resists or won’t accept logic. Also overreacting to physical horseplay for example.
    If someone else is slacking, I have no problem telling them to do whatever I told them to do initially. But I actually think this is more Te than Se because it's a work environment.

    Would you believe I've been typed SLE off this same questionnaire, by a so-called school of Socionics?

    Btw, I don't think that's correct either. I don't think I'm Se base. I also don't think I'm Se PoLR.

    Quote Originally Posted by remiges View Post
    I think that is true of all introverted judging types - they know what they personally believe or personally think is accurate.

    Finding an alternative around the obstacle, wanting to find another way is Ne... but you’re still a judging type and once the options run out you’ll still stick to that judgment at the end of the day, rather than change your mind.
    You missed the key point here, though: that I easily withstand intimidation. I can be persuaded to a different position. I'm not that rigid. But I won't be *intimidated* into a different position. So it's not about Ti rigidity; it's about resistance to Se intimidation.

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    125
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redundantoxymoron View Post
    Would you believe I've been typed SLE off this same questionnaire, by a so-called school of Socionics?
    ”Would you”? Hm, interesting question. Sure, why not?

    Was it really? Did they give their reasoning? Would like to read it if so...

    You missed the key point here, though: that I easily withstand intimidation. I can be persuaded to a different position. I'm not that rigid. But I won't be *intimidated* into a different position. So it's not about Ti rigidity; it's about resistance to Se intimidation.
    Right. I suppose I did. Saying that you could “resist” pressure, it cannot be your “point of least resistance,” however, could it be you are so terrible at estimating pressure placed on you that you cannot even tell?

    This is becoming circular. This is great. LOL

    What PoLR do you see for yourself, then?

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    161
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    LSI-Se or LII-Ti. Some LSI-Se are pretty non-forceful people, but they also enjoy or are open to having "a good time" with friends, in a loud environment, drinking, listening to and making crude/gross jokes and group activities whether fun/leisure or work (all much more than the LII-Ti). Also, the LSI-Se loves puns more than the LII-Ti.

  11. #11

    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    TIM
    ESI
    Posts
    103
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by remiges View Post
    Was it really? Did they give their reasoning? Would like to read it if so...
    Heh. Yes, the reasoning was that because I know how to press, I have strong Se, and because I have an understanding of ergonomics rules, I have strong Si. But I think the pressing is still more Ti than Se (although I do think it's decently Se), and the ergonomics *rules* are primarily Ti and only indicate Si-valuing if anything.

    could it be you are so terrible at estimating pressure placed on you that you cannot even tell?
    It's possible, but this kind of argument undermines the entire notion of self-typing (that one can type oneself or participate in typing oneself). The typing process inherently assumes one's self-perception is at least roughly accurate. With that in mind, I can say that, no, I am not so terrible at estimating pressure placed on me that I can't even tell- I can tell just fine.

    What PoLR do you see for yourself, then?
    Good question. Generally, I don't relate to any of the IEs in the PoLR position, except some descriptions of Si PoLR and Fi PoLR. Occasionally, I do relate to Se PoLR and Fe PoLR, but rarely.

  12. #12
    Ajna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    24
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    This is really interesting. You're describing the literal objective and universal definition of things that are being asked, but we want to read what those things are or mean to you. That's the purpose of these questionnaires. If we wanted to know the literal meaning we would just Google the definition.
    I think you have very strong Si, Fe, and Thinking. I said in the other post that while superficially going through your posts you seemed like an Ne user, but I think your Si is way more developed.

    Things that say Te instead of Ti to me means the way you go about troubleshooting any new problem or situation. You describe that you always research what you need to do, as if almost you exactly knew where to look and exactly what to do, before trying to solve it with your previously known framework (but sure, some things you just don't know or ever heard about, so research may be also what anyone would do at first sight). It seems like you always know exactly what to do, and how to go about doing it. Also, the fact that you're giving us literal definitions instead of how those things are constructed /fit together and make sense in your mind could also explain Te. You just want to get the job done. And in this case the job is answering the questionnaire as truthful and objectively as you can.

    Please look into SLI, ILI and LIE too (besides your already known suspicions of LII). I also suggest taking a more "personal" questionnaire, with questions that you can't possibly answer objectively so we can know you better, your motivations and your reasoning for acting the way you do.

    It was an interesting read.
    By the way, kind of off topic, I don't know if I'm LII or ILE and we have about 5 years of age difference and I found myself not relating that much to you (for example laughing at a funeral) I'd love to nitpick each answer to the questionnaire that I find relevant but I'm on mobile right now.
    Last edited by Ajna; 02-26-2020 at 09:58 PM. Reason: Suspiciona is suspicions. hue

  13. #13

    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    161
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Actually now that Ajna mentions it, SLI, ILI, and LIE should be looked into by the OP for his type.

  14. #14

    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    125
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redundantoxymoron View Post
    It's possible, but this kind of argument undermines the entire notion of self-typing (that one can type oneself or participate in typing oneself). The typing process inherently assumes one's self-perception is at least roughly accurate. With that in mind, I can say that, no, I am not so terrible at estimating pressure placed on me that I can't even tell- I can tell just fine.

    Good question. Generally, I don't relate to any of the IEs in the PoLR position, except some descriptions of Si PoLR and Fi PoLR. Occasionally, I do relate to Se PoLR and Fe PoLR, but rarely.
    Seems to me it would be difficult to self type because you’re blind to your own base... have to look at what isn’t there as you may never see what actually is constant. That you may actually see your demonstrative or creative more clearly.

    So given that... Perhaps you should look into ILE-Ti or SLI-Te if you’re sure you are Si valuing. Given that this questionnaire seems bent to NT (in a general sense) I would also throw ILI up there.

    Ajna also makes a good point but I would be cautious with comparing yourself to others with same type as they could be mistyped themselves or have vastly different life experiences (the usual).

    I am also on mobile, sorry the message is short.

  15. #15

    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    TIM
    ESI
    Posts
    103
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ajna View Post
    You're describing the literal objective and universal definition of things that are being asked, but we want to read what those things are or mean to you.
    Actually, every definition provided here is my own. Same with my classification systems. I didn't reference any external definitions. For instance, let's look at the Te block - the very first question, in fact. I defined work without reference to any external facts: "Work is the exchange of time for money or the expectation of future money." And then I specifically explained why it differs from the common, external view of work: "People sometimes view unpaid but demanding activities as work, e.g. side projects outside of work, raising children, serious hobbies, etc. but I would not classify these as work because you are not exchanging time for money or the expectation of future money."

    If we wanted to know the literal meaning we would just Google the definition.
    Maybe you should google the definition then. If you did, you'd see that it's different from my definition. So, I did not use the "literal meaning".

    Originally, I'd intended to go through your post point-by-point, since there are many false assumptions, but then I noticed these premises:

    I think you have very strong Si, Fe, and Thinking.
    i.e. very strong Fe and also very strong Thinking

    I said in the other post that while superficially going through your posts you seemed like an Ne user, but I think your Si is way more developed.
    i.e. Si > Ne dimensionality

    Followed by this conclusion:

    Please look into SLI, ILI and LIE
    And I decided that your Socionics knowledge is too poor to be worth a point-by-point analysis.

    I'm sorry, but this makes no sense. You think I have very strong Fe and also very strong Thinking, which is not possible within the theory; if Fe is 3D, then both logic functions must be 2D or lower. You also think I have strong Si and Si > Ne dimensionality, but you suggested LIE, a type with 4D Ne demonstrative and 1D Si PoLR. You also think I have strong Fe, but you suggested two types (SLI and ILI) that have 1D Fe PoLR.

    All of the above should have thrown up red flags in your mind that you misinterpreted *something* in your analysis.

    I don't know if I'm LII or ILE
    Since you helped me, let me return the favor. Tbh, I'd expect a Ti ego - even a Ti creative - to detect logical contradictions, and explain or resolve them, before posting.

    I understand you're just throwing out possibilities - but a Ti ego would acknowledge the contradictions, while you didn't.

    And tbh, I'd also expect a Ti ego to detect the logical contradiction between typing oneself as a Ti ego and not being able to (easily) detect logical contradictions.

  16. #16

    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    TIM
    ESI
    Posts
    103
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by remiges View Post
    Seems to me it would be difficult to self type because you’re blind to your own base... have to look at what isn’t there as you may never see what actually is constant. That you may actually see your demonstrative or creative more clearly.

    So given that... Perhaps you should look into ILE-Ti or SLI-Te if you’re sure you are Si valuing. Given that this questionnaire seems bent to NT (in a general sense) I would also throw ILI up there.
    Ti is the only function of which I'm regularly consciously aware; I'm also sometimes aware of Fe.

    I find it interesting that you didn't suggest SLE-Ti? With SLI-Te, I'd need to explain both an unconscious base function and an unconscious creative function. With ILI-Te, same.

  17. #17

    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    TIM
    ESI
    Posts
    103
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Anja @remiges @Disturbed @Northstar

    Thanks everyone for replying. I've decided to go with SEI. Since the consensus seems to be SLI, but I'm consciously aware of Ti/Fe and not Fi/Te, SEI makes more sense. I'm not consciously aware of Si or Ne, as discussed, but that's ok for now.

  18. #18

    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    125
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redundantoxymoron View Post
    Ti is the only function of which I'm regularly consciously aware; I'm also sometimes aware of Fe.

    I find it interesting that you didn't suggest SLE-Ti? With SLI-Te, I'd need to explain both an unconscious base function and an unconscious creative function. With ILI-Te, same.
    You had already previously said you did not believe you were SLE, as it was recommended by whatever society, so I did not see the need to mention it. I am presently leaning toward ILE-Ti, rather than the others, but I would need more time to actually process it further. Apologies.

    However... I am interested in asking another question. Would you say you just like considering ideas for the sake of considering them, without really ever needing to come to a conclusion?

    Edit: Never mind. Neato. SEI then.

  19. #19

    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    TIM
    ESI
    Posts
    103
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by remiges View Post
    You had already previously said you did not believe you were SLE, as it was recommended by whatever society, so I did not see the need to mention it. I am presently leaning toward ILE-Ti, rather than the others, but I would need more time to actually process it further. Apologies.

    However... I am interested in asking another question. Would you say you just like considering ideas for the sake of considering them, without really ever needing to come to a conclusion?

    Edit: Never mind. Neato. SEI then.
    Thanks, I don't mind still discussing btw.

    re SLE-Ti: I forgot I'd mentioned the previous SLE typing; I understand now why you didn't mention it.

    Yes, I did think it was notable what you pointed out earlier: "Also, bringing up a possibility -> evaluating it for logical consistency -> another possibility -> evaluating it for logical consistency, Ti-Ne, iteration, is a common theme throughout this whole questionnaire."

    And as I replied earlier, the iteration "should" be inverted for an LII: state a logical rule/principle -> bring up possibilities about it -> state another logical rule/principle -> bring up possibilities about it.

    But on reflection, I do your version much more than mine. This suggests I'm coming up with possibilities (Ne) first, then checking them for logical consistency (Ti).

    As for your question, it depends on the context. I usually, but not always, like to fit ideas into theories or with other ideas, and not just consider them for their own sake. But, I don't mind that either.

  20. #20

    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    125
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redundantoxymoron View Post
    Thanks, I don't mind still discussing btw.

    re SLE-Ti: I forgot I'd mentioned the previous SLE typing; I understand now why you didn't mention it.

    Yes, I did think it was notable what you pointed out earlier: "Also, bringing up a possibility -> evaluating it for logical consistency -> another possibility -> evaluating it for logical consistency, Ti-Ne, iteration, is a common theme throughout this whole questionnaire."

    And as I replied earlier, the iteration "should" be inverted for an LII: state a logical rule/principle -> bring up possibilities about it -> state another logical rule/principle -> bring up possibilities about it.

    But on reflection, I do your version much more than mine. This suggests I'm coming up with possibilities (Ne) first, then checking them for logical consistency (Ti).

    As for your question, it depends on the context. I usually, but not always, like to fit ideas into theories or with other ideas, and not just consider them for their own sake. But, I don't mind that either.
    Yeah, the order was incorrect, I see what you mean. I got a bit sloppy there, but the general idea still stands.

    What I meant for their own sake, was that you can just consider them in and of themselves without ultimately needing to take some kind of concrete action, unlike how I imagine an SLE would. Thoughts? I may be getting dangerously close to sloppy again, lol sorry.

  21. #21

    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    TIM
    ESI
    Posts
    103
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by remiges View Post
    Yeah, the order was incorrect, I see what you mean. I got a bit sloppy there, but the general idea still stands.

    What I meant for their own sake, was that you can just consider them in and of themselves without ultimately needing to take some kind of concrete action, unlike how I imagine an SLE would. Thoughts? I may be getting dangerously close to sloppy again, lol sorry.
    Oh, I'm actually not saying the order is incorrect, necessarily -- that order would be consistent with ILE. I was just referencing it in light of your previous comment. I think you made a valid observation about the order, and it was something I was not aware of, so thanks again for that.

    I actually think you are correct that I'm coming up with ideas first and only checking them for logical consistency after that.

    I see what you mean now. In that case, I do consider ideas without taking action most of the time, but I usually, but not always, like to fit ideas into theories or with other ideas. So it's still not action-oriented, though, I guess.

  22. #22
    Aramas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    United States
    TIM
    EII-Ne
    Posts
    1,457
    Mentioned
    95 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Just to make sure I have my input here in its proper place: you're LII.

  23. #23

    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    TIM
    ESI
    Posts
    103
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    Just to make sure I have my input here in its proper place: you're LII.
    Highly doubtful given that I have no consciousness of Ne whatsoever.

    Also, did you read my 40Q and note the obviously strong Si? Or are you just going off the one post you commented on before?

  24. #24
    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    TIM
    SLE
    Posts
    2,793
    Mentioned
    205 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think you are ILI @redundantoxymoron

  25. #25

    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    TIM
    ESI
    Posts
    103
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    I think you are ILI @redundantoxymoron
    Sorry, I have to rule out Fe PoLR types pretty much categorically. I'm leaning towards Fe ego now. My Fe is definitely valued, and probably in ego.

    You also indicated Fe creative in the other thread, which is not consistent with ILI at all.

  26. #26
    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    TIM
    SLE
    Posts
    2,793
    Mentioned
    205 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redundantoxymoron View Post
    Sorry, I have to rule out Fe PoLR types pretty much categorically. I'm leaning towards Fe ego now. My Fe is definitely valued, and probably in ego.

    You also indicated Fe creative in the other thread, which is not consistent with ILI at all.
    I changed my mind after getting more information about you. That comment was only based on your logic of claiming to make your own Fe norms, knowing nothing else about you then. So I said it could be possible. In the next line though I also said that you making a bulleted list about human interaction “screams logical type”, however.

  27. #27
    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    TIM
    SLE
    Posts
    2,793
    Mentioned
    205 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Nevermind, I agree with @Aramas and think that you are LII. I feel that I am supervising you in this thread and you are wasting my time.

    Edit again: SEI is possible too, because LIIs are usually smarter than you.

  28. #28
    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    TIM
    SLE
    Posts
    2,793
    Mentioned
    205 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Reading your criticisms of others up there too, I suggest IEI for you too like I originally did @redundantoxymoron , another dumb bitch type that would suit you.

  29. #29
    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    TIM
    SLE
    Posts
    2,793
    Mentioned
    205 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I frequently structure information. The purpose is to understand things, to come to viewpoints and conclusions about the world or about specific topics/subjects or questions. In my experience, people usually do it by memorizing rules that they can apply later, instead of actually understanding the subject. I used to be a tutor, and I encountered many bright students who nevertheless preferred this memorization approach. I prefer to understand the fundamental principles on which something operates, and then I can make any subsequent decisions based on those fundamental principles. In college, whenever I had the opportunity to memorize as little as possible and derive the rest, I took it.”

    This is easily Ti HA.

  30. #30
    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    TIM
    SLE
    Posts
    2,793
    Mentioned
    205 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think you are IEI rather than SEI. You seem more aware of your mental mechanics than sensors typically are. In spite of saying you have an ergonomic working space, you haven’t said much more to indicate strong Si. In fact you said you dislike memorizing things. IEIs have normative Si.

  31. #31
    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    TIM
    SLE
    Posts
    2,793
    Mentioned
    205 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redundantoxymoron View Post
    Also, did you read my 40Q and note the obviously strong Si? Or are you just going off the one post you commented on before?
    No. Where the fuck is it? You are shaming people for reading your TLDR trash post asking if they’ve looked at content that does not exist.

  32. #32

    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    125
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Doesn’t this whole thing sound like the trolling that ILE’s are known for: trying to get emotional reactions from people in a social science experiment?

    Re memorizing as little as possible and deriving things, sounds like Ne to me. Taking the opportunity. Etc.

    Fitting ideas to other ideas is also Ne - the similarity between ideas and concepts.

    Also I think you were PoLR hit by Ajna, above, when she pointed out what was missing as your personal belief/motivation for what you do, which is why you reacted so strongly with Ti.
    Last edited by remiges; 02-29-2020 at 01:15 PM.

  33. #33
    Northstar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    TIM
    LSI-Se
    Posts
    158
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Deriving from basic principles instead of memorization and seeing similarities (categorizing) is Ti. Trolling for emotional effect is creative Ti, mobilizing Fe.
    Role Se in ILE and IEE can be pretty prominent sometimes but not well controlled or understood.

  34. #34

    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    TIM
    ESI
    Posts
    103
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Nevermind, I agree with @Aramas and think that you are LII. I feel that I am supervising you in this thread and you are wasting my time.

    Edit again: SEI is possible too, because LIIs are usually smarter than you.
    Actually, I feel like I'm supervising you! Weird, huh? My suspicions were confirmed by the bolded below:

    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Reading your criticisms of others up there too, I suggest IEI for you too like I originally did @redundantoxymoron , another dumb bitch type that would suit you.
    Calling your dual a "dumb bitch type" out of spite towards me sounds like an overreaction on your part stemming from my evident PoLR hit. Sorry.

    The angry, wounded tone of your subsequent comments only backs this up. I'm clearly supervising you.


    Quote Originally Posted by remiges View Post
    Doesn’t this whole thing sound like the trolling that ILE’s are known for: trying to get emotional reactions from people in a social science experiment?

    Re memorizing as little as possible and deriving things, sounds like Ne to me. Taking the opportunity. Etc.
    Bolded is Ti, as Northstar stated. Since we are talking about a logical derivation of a conclusion from the premises, it's categorically not Ne or any other irrational element.

    As for the trolling, I will address that below Northstar's comment.

    Fitting ideas to other ideas is also Ne - the similarity between ideas and concepts.
    Depends on how the fitting is being done -- I'm talking about logically fitting ideas together into a theory, and checking for logical consistency, so it's Ti.

    Loosely mapping ideas together can be Ne, yes.

    Also I think you were PoLR hit by Ajna, above, when she pointed out what was missing as your personal belief/motivation for what you do, which is why you reacted so strongly with Ti.
    Reading motivations is actually part of Socionics Ne, not Fi. Ajna did misread my motivations: I wrote this questionnaire over 3 days, but that didn't stop her from bizarrely stating that I tried to get it done as fast as possible, with no basis at all for this claim. The HD Ne of an Ne ego should be reading motivations *accurately*, but hers misfired, for some reason.

    Maybe it *was* a PoLR hit -- an Ne PoLR hit. And I hit sbbds's Fi PoLR.


    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    Deriving from basic principles instead of memorization and seeing similarities (categorizing) is Ti. Trolling for emotional effect is creative Ti, mobilizing Fe.
    Role Se in ILE and IEE can be pretty prominent sometimes but not well controlled or understood.
    I'm not trolling at all, and especially not for emotional effect! The fact that people are reacting emotionally is beside the point -- it's not my goal, nor my desire.

    I've been nothing but sincere on this forum. The fact that one user above made several hysterical posts, does not make me a troll -- it makes me her Supervisor.
    Last edited by redundantoxymoron; 02-29-2020 at 08:54 PM.

  35. #35

    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    125
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    When I said the trolling, I did not mean it that you were doing it on purpose or had bad intentions, but it can come across that way to those who do not see things similarly... obviously, as evidenced by the above.

    Anyway, though I tentatively disagree on some details about the information elements in recent posts, I am not certain and will have to read more. Good luck!

  36. #36
    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    TIM
    SLE
    Posts
    2,793
    Mentioned
    205 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redundantoxymoron View Post
    Actually, I feel like I'm supervising you! Weird, huh? My suspicions were confirmed by the bolded below:
    Yeah that’s weird, because you actually aren’t.

    sounds like an overreaction on your part stemming from my evident PoLR hit.
    You are retarded. I’m Fi polr. Where have you even interacted with me in a way that has hit my Fi?

    Meanwhile you completely ignored all of my valid comments trying to contribute to your typing. Why should other people help you if all you’re going to do is criticize them and be delusional?

    Your name should be changed from redundantoxymoron to just retardedmoron. Redundantmoron works, too.

  37. #37
    sullutac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    40
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    hi, i read your op in depth and i really don't think you're sei, or any kind of f type based on it. there's the chance that you're trying to sound like a certain type, but your te especially seemed too high-dimensional to fake. it was one of the only IMs you offered your own opinion on, while you gave general definitions of all the other IMs. you also placed a lot of emphasis on ti, which sounded heavily conscious and the focus of your thoughts. i also think that you're a j-type. i don't think you gave the strongest answers to ne or ni, but then again, this is a questionnaire and it's really easy to sound off, especially as imo judging functions are easier to put into words than perceiving fucntions. here are some notes i took. there are some follow-up questions in there somewhere related to ne and ni that i think would help you.

    Te:
    "I would not classify these as work because you are not exchanging time for money or the expectation of future money."

    personal definition of work that is more complicated than the generally accepted definition: strong, multidimensional te. You also say that you have your own higher standards for quality and that you don't feel hurt when your performance is lacking, which means that Te is definitely not a sore spot. I'm pretty sure we can eliminate all f-types just from this.

    I can easily tell if I can do a certain task or not. I know what skills I have and what kinds of skills I can learn quickly and easily.
    accurate self-assessment on te- strong te. in the case of role te, as an fe-dom would have, theirs would not be as strong as this.

    Ti:

    Yes, it's easy for me to be logical in that I can easily tell if the premises of an argument jointly logically entail the conclusion and I can easily tell also if there are some logically inconsistent/contradictory/incompatible claims being made. I can also tell if two claims are truly logically identical vs. if they are different, even very subtly different.

    Strong ti
    A person is "logical" if (but not only if, as I'm open to other definitions) they apply a logically consistent set of rules* in a consistent manner across different situations. As a Ti-valuer,
    i personally agree with this... do you feel annoyed when someone is logically inconsistent? What about when they're impractical/unproductive in a Te sense?

    I have few sets of rules (or frameworks) that are intended to persist across situations, and I add to them and change them relatively easily though carefully, and removals are uncommon.

    i think this shows that you're a judging type because you consciously reference rules and act by them. as a perceiving type, i typically reference the rules after i have a thought, not the other way around. what are some examples of some rules you have?

    Se:
    I can't describe in detail how I do it*, but I almost picture myself like a lawyer conducting an aggressive, but effective, cross-examination.
    i can picture this, and it sounds like you don't have 1D Se, but also it doesn't necessarily mean that you're se valuing because LSEs definitely do this as well. An LII would defend their viewpoint or question logic, sure, but they wouldn't initiate aggressive behavior and if they had to, it would make them very uncomfortable.
    I don't know exactly where the line is between assertive and aggressive, so I tend to stay on the conservative side.
    i know that some people have said that this is due to weak se, but there are plenty of lses, lsis, and sles who are like this. imo it's more due to impatience and weak f functions. i think the line between assertive and aggressive is how nice you come off, not how firm you are.

    . I do feel a bit "fake" when I do it though, like I'm putting on an act, but I can do it.
    i'm not sure what this means in terms of type... do you think it's because you have to force yourself to be extroverted, or more assertive, or more emotional? on the surface it does sound like role se. it's possible that you've learned to be good at your role function.
    if someone's trying to intimidate or pressure me into doing something, I brush it off and keep doing whatever I was going to do anyway.
    it sounds like strong se. to my knowledge, a PoLR is the most painful function to deal with, so this does not suggest LII.

    Si:
    I'm careful to keep ergonomic desk setups at home and at work, so that I don't develop a repetitive stress injury. So far, so good. I also wear comfortable clothes and shoes because I don't want them to distract me while working.
    i don't think you have 1D si, especially since you feel the comfort of your clothes and shoes enough for them to distract you while you're working

    I could learn to do it but I don't really care, so apart from having an ergonomic work area, and a huge ultrawide monitor , I just wouldn't bother designing it myself or hiring someone else to do it.
    in the literature it says that an ignoring function is one that you're good at but don't care about. however, not caring about interior design can also mean that you just value practicality, not that you devalue aesthetics. so based on this i wouldn't rule out lse or sli in favor of an Se-valuing type.

    Fe:
    by the way, i think these fe questions are retarded because anyone who's not brain dead could answer them. "is it acceptable to express emotions in public?" really?

    Normally, I have no discernible emotional state.

    it doesnt sound like you're a very emotional person. i don't think you're an f type once again
    Sympathy is what I mentioned above where I'm talking to someone who seems sad so I also feel a little bit sad. I don't "try" to express it or "need" to express it but it does happen pretty naturally for me,
    this is a very fe "outward emotional mood" answer over an fi "relationship moral blah blah" answer imo. although i dont know what it means functionally, as LxE, fi valuing types, still have fe role. however, i think this answer is a little simplistic and you arent an f type.
    moral/immoral is not a useful distinction.
    i think an fi valuing type would have morals that they consciously or unconsciously value. even LSEs say stuff like "to be a good mother i make sure to stay healthy."
    When applied to the treatment of people, they must also be treated consistently, meaning fairly and impartially.
    i personally agree with this as a ti valuing type.

    Ne:
    Well, once you talk to someone, they'll say stuff, and from there you can guess a little bit about what their interests are, and from there guess other interests and their general tendencies.
    just my opinion, but this is a tiiiny bit simplistic. what someone's interests are is the general norm of ne, nothing multidimensional.
    I don't actively "fantasize". My imagination, if I'm going to call it that, is just always going on in the background. Like I'm aware of it but it's a background awareness by default. I can focus on it and bring it forward/into the foreground. I rarely do this as I don't need to actively imagine to still have imagination as defined above. Anyway, this background imagination is basically merged with reality, like an augmented reality.
    this sounds just like you have an internal monologue, like what everyone has. do you ever consider what a situation might lack, or how to make things better, or just a new way of doing things?
    Everyone stands out in some way. Like at work, everyone has some strengths, some weaknesses
    this sort of sounds like weak ne- types that are weak in an area often overgeneralize a way of thinking in the functions they are weak in, which is what this sounds like.
    But by default, I don't think about specific people in this way.

    as an ne-lead, i don't relate to this. this in particular could be just me though
    And in another, I stayed in philosophy (one of my majors in undergrad) and went into academia... And in another, I'm a troll on YouTube. To be honest, I want to edit out the tangent in the previous paragraph, but I think that tangent will provide information that you need to fully assess...
    yeah lol i felt like you were trying to use normative ne but it came off as forced and quirky. it was an expression of your creativity, but i think that any type can be creative if they try to be

    I think we need to separate the notions of interesting, correct, and practical ideas from each other.
    i think this is high-dimensional t....i? you seem to use it heavily and constantly from your ordering of terms and classifying, but you inherently understand what "practical" is, suggesting an underhand use of te.
    Tbh, I feel like most of my waking hours are spent checking the pragmatism of various ideas that I think of during the day, and choosing between them.
    so you look at your ideas in the long term with practicality in mind. it sounds like valued te and ni here. as an ne valuer, i can't relate to this, as i can be pretty impractical and some people might say i waste my time

    Ni:
    so I don't really notice when they (people) change.
    lol in case it wasnt clear before, it sounds like you aren't an EII or IEE bc this is exactly what they're good at noticing. even though this is in the ni section.

    I don't discuss this with other people.
    how would you react/feel if someone mentioned to you how you've changed or how your character has developed?

    I don't feel time at all.
    i feel like this sort of contradicts what you said before with the "practical projects in the long run" because that statement implies that you do feel the passage of time... did you mean something else?

    I waste time, for example, doing this. But really, I enjoy it, I'm learning stuff so it's not a waste.
    same, but do you really feel like it's a waste of time or do you feel like it has long-term practical potential like you said earlier?

    I can tell how something will end, and I trust this.
    it sounds like strong ni, although it's possible to believe that you're strong in your vulnerable function as well.




























  38. #38

    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    TIM
    ESI
    Posts
    103
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Yeah that’s weird, because you actually aren’t.


    You are retarded. I’m Fi polr. Where have you even interacted with me in a way that has hit my Fi?

    Meanwhile you completely ignored all of my valid comments trying to contribute to your typing. Why should other people help you if all you’re going to do is criticize them and be delusional?

    Your name should be changed from redundantoxymoron to just retardedmoron. Redundantmoron works, too.
    I've replied to a lot of people here, actually. I did not reply to you, because you are clearly only here to insult me and not to help.

    "all of my valid comments trying to contribute to your typing" - Your comments were insults, not valid comments or contributions. This is how I know I hit your PoLR.

    Now you are continuing to insult me more because you have been wounded again for some reason.

    This is why I did not reply to you earlier. You did not make "valid comments", you just insulted me, and you're still doing it.

  39. #39
    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    TIM
    SLE
    Posts
    2,793
    Mentioned
    205 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redundantoxymoron View Post
    I've replied to a lot of people here, actually. I did not reply to you, because you are clearly only here to insult me and not to help.

    "all of my valid comments trying to contribute to your typing" - Your comments were insults, not valid comments or contributions. This is how I know I hit your PoLR.

    Now you are continuing to insult me more because you have been wounded again for some reason.

    This is why I did not reply to you earlier. You did not make "valid comments", you just insulted me, and you're still doing it.
    Insulting you doesn’t mean you hit my polr lol. Keep crying out of your anus.

  40. #40

    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    TIM
    ESI
    Posts
    103
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    @sullutac

    Thanks for going through in depth like this. You asked a lot of question and the font makes it difficult for me to find most of them so I'm going to reply to the ones I noticed at first.

    do you think it's because you have to force yourself to be extroverted, or more assertive, or more emotional?
    More assertive. There's nothing really emotional in what I described there.

    do you feel annoyed when someone is logically inconsistent? What about when they're impractical/unproductive in a Te sense?
    Neither one annoys me.

    do you ever consider what a situation might lack, or how to make things better, or just a new way of doing things?
    Well, like I said, I don't actively think about that, it's just kinda always going on in the background. Like I'm aware of it but it's a background awareness by default. I don't need to actively think about it like "what does this situation lack" I just immediately know what is lacking, or what can be made better, etc. I don't even think about it.

    However, I think my Ne is probably 1D or 2D at best, because I don't care at all about helping other people finding their interests or potentials or whatever - which you seem to have noticed. When it comes to systems or theories, that is when I'm inclined as above to just think of improvements automatically. But I definitely don't care about guessing people's interests or tendencies or helping people with that at all.

    yeah lol i felt like you were trying to use normative ne but it came off as forced and quirky. it was an expression of your creativity, but i think that any type can be creative if they try to be
    I wouldn't consider that creative, or Ne at all. These were all realistic possibilities that I considered once upon a time, so it's more Se than anything.

    how would you react/feel if someone mentioned to you how you've changed or how your character has developed?
    Ignore it. I don't really care about that at all.

    i feel like this sort of contradicts what you said before with the "practical projects in the long run" because that statement implies that you do feel the passage of time... did you mean something else?
    I don't feel the passage of time, as in, I don't consciously experience the passage of time. I somehow "just know" what needs to be done when, but I don't think about it consciously.

    same, but do you really feel like it's a waste of time or do you feel like it has long-term practical potential like you said earlier?
    Haha, of course this doesn't have long-term practical value at all. It's purely for fun. Like I said though, I enjoy it, I'm learning stuff so it's not a waste.

    Not everything I do has long-term practical value. In fact, to be honest, most of it doesn't. The pragmatism is more of a goal/ideal than a reality. This is part of why I now type as ESI, which is a Te-seeking type, of course.

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •