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    Default Existential philosophy discussion

    Have you ever wondered "Why are you here?", "What are you doing?", "Why are you doing the things you usually do?", even if you have a goal for your life, do you know what is the point from doing it? I mean whatever, you want a job, so you can have food to eat, this is essentially to live, but what is the point of your life, I mean I want a purpose, not to just walk without a direction, or following others, there must me a reason that I am here, if you said you are here to make peace in the world, or to be a high achieving person, or the most richest powerful handsome person on earth, what is the goal I'll reach in the end? My death? Will I live as a spectator watch what other people do in the end? Is the game over?

    hey, regardless of anything, even if you don't find purpose to your life, you have a CHANCE and you musn't let it go.

    But does anybody have an idea about what is everybody mission, or even just YOU?

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    YOU
    honest labor needs no master

    Nothing good is a miracle, nothing lovely is a dream.

    Επί πάντων μέμνησο τα έσχατά σου, και ου μη αμαρτήσης

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    LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Farag View Post
    ...there must me a reason that I am here...
    But does anybody have an idea about what is everybody mission
    So, I can tell from the above that you don't even know what existential philosophy is.

    Existential philosophy rejects the notion that you have some special destiny or reason for being here. Its nihilism with a skirt on.

    If you're an existentialist, there is no reason or purpose that you're here, no essence to your existence. You exist first empty of purpose in a universe without meaning, without value, without morality, without good or evil and you chooses your meaning and values second. Absolutes are a delusion. Given that, there's no basis for making valuations. Your purpose is a choice which you can change on a whim. Anything goes which is putty in my hands because I'm psycho as fck... hehehe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kill4Me View Post
    So, I can tell from the above that you don't even know what existential philosophy is.

    Existential philosophy rejects the notion that you have some special destiny or reason for being here. Its nihilism with a skirt on.

    If you're an existentialist, there is no reason or purpose that you're here, no essence to your existence. You exist first empty of purpose in a universe without meaning, without value, without morality, without good or evil and you chooses your meaning and values second. Absolutes are a delusion. Given that, there's no basis for making valuations. Your purpose is a choice which you can change on a whim. Anything goes which is putty in my hands because I'm psycho as fck... hehehe
    "I am"........??

    Who is?

    Where is this person that can be psycho? What and who is he?

    I am that am I am.

    So you do valuate. How about getting real and not having it both ways. Its relative to a you that you conceive yourself to be.

    If there is no you to choose then where did the choice come from and what is the choice?

    Emptiness is only one facet of the diamond. Those in the Himalayas have been talking about this for centuries. Clap clap bravo, you've seen emptiness and become the creator I am. Big whoopty-do. These sorts of depersonalizations lead to ruin btw. Maybe not at first but, eventually.

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    So, I don't really know what existential philosophy really is ?

    Guys what are you saying? i've gone mad lol

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    Guys i mean, OF COURSE THERE IS REASON GOD CREATED ME,

    Or Whatever religion you have, or even if you are atheist.

    There is reason you are here, you are Conscious except all creatures YOU have a mind, Why?

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    I mean no, lol of course you have a mind and consciousness,

    do you know why god created you, i mean YOU can have a purpose, but do you know why are you even here?

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    Basically the atheist biological reason you are here is because you could be.

    It's so simplistic it sounds non sensical.

    In this biological clock work universe you are a randomly selected species of great ape.

    All purpose and meaning are by products of cultural-psuedo-personal constructs.

    Nothing matters, nothing ever did matter and nothing ever will matter.

    Further your technological advancements are vulgar and a affront to nature yet even this doesn't matter as all ecological worth is a value statement.

    Your DNA is a Gene machine maker and everything is casually predetermined propablilities.

    The self you tell yourself you are is merely programming. Nothing inside besides a genetic spook.

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    You are a blip between endless void and endless void. The universe will live with you for less than the time it takes it to blink. It sure doesn't feel like it though, does it?

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    I'm not a fan of Sartre or Simone de Beauvoir, and I hope someone will chew me out for that so I leave this thread with more knowledge than I started.

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    Quote Originally Posted by coeruleum View Post
    I'm not a fan of Sartre or Simone de Beauvoir, and I hope someone will chew me out for that so I leave this thread with more knowledge than I started.
    I'd recommend that you read some Kierkegaard. He wouldn't have been a fan of their's either. Yet he kinda got the whole "Existential" school of philosophy going to doubtlessly the chagrin of those godless commie fucktards. They owe their own careers and entire branch of philosophy to a fanatical theist in the ultimate end.

    I would most love to see the look on their face if they ever fully grasped that fact .

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    I'd recommend that you read some Kierkegaard. He wouldn't have been a fan of their's either. Yet he kinda got the whole "Existential" school of philosophy going to doubtlessly the chagrin of those godless commie fucktards. They owe their own careers and entire branch of philosophy to a fanatical theist in the ultimate end.

    I would most love to see the look on their face if they ever fully grasped that fact .
    Well some people count Nietzsche as an existentialist and he was before all of them, and Kierkegaard makes me think he's just an embarrassment to actually good fanatically religious philosophers based on what I've read, but I'd still probably consider Kierkegaard better than Sartre based on how Kierkegaard and Sartre discussions usually go. I don't have strong opinions on anyone even vaguely associated with existentialism besides Nietzsche, Camus, and the Theatre of the Absurd, all of which I think are nice enough, but my opinions of the people I don't have strong opinions of is generally unfavorable.

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    "I" am represented by my taste.

    I don't believe I chose it, but I don't think that matters - only my taste does.

    I don't give any special significance to why I, or anything else exists. It is just a fact of reality. Ultimately, I cannot meaningfully determine between whether matter chooses to exist, or if it is eternal. But that has no bearing on me.

    However, in the world of the senses, matter is eternal. Nothing is ever gained or lost, only transformed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by timber View Post
    Basically the atheist biological reason you are here is because you could be.

    It's so simplistic it sounds non sensical.

    In this biological clock work universe you are a randomly selected species of great ape.

    All purpose and meaning are by products of cultural-psuedo-personal constructs.

    Nothing matters, nothing ever did matter and nothing ever will matter.

    Further your technological advancements are vulgar and a affront to nature yet even this doesn't matter as all ecological worth is a value statement.

    Your DNA is a Gene machine maker and everything is casually predetermined propablilities.

    The self you tell yourself you are is merely programming. Nothing inside besides a genetic spook.
    I'm practically an atheist, but for me, my own taste is of supreme importance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by coeruleum View Post
    I'm not a fan of Sartre or Simone de Beauvoir, and I hope someone will chew me out for that so I leave this thread with more knowledge than I started.
    I'm not a big fan of Sartre, although I like Existentialism is a Humanism, even if he didn't seem to so much later.

    "Atheistic existentialism, which I represent, is more consistent. It states that if God does not exist, there is at least one being in whom existence precedes essence -a being whose existence comes before its essence, a being who exists before he can be defined by any concept of it. That being is man, or, as Heidegger put it, the human reality. What do we mean here by "existence precedes essence"? We mean that man first exists: he materializes in the world, encounters himself, and only afterward defines himself. If man as existentialists conceive of him cannot be defined, it is because to begin with he is nothing. He will not be anything until later, and then he will he what he makes of himself. Thus, there is no human nature since there is no God to conceive of it. Man is not only that which he conceives himself to be, but that which he wills himself to be, and since he conceives of himself only after he exists, just as he wills himself to be after being thrown into existence, man is nothing other than what he makes of himself. This is the first principle of existentialism." ~ Jean-Paul Sartre

    From The Ethics of Ambiguity by Simone de Beauvoir:

    "Before existence there is no more reason to exist than not to exist. The lack of existence can not be evaluated since it is the fact on the basis of which all evaluation is defined. It can not be compared to anything for there is nothing outside of it to serve as a term of comparison. This rejection of any extrinsic justification also confirm the rejection of an original pessimism which we posited at the beginning. Since it is unjustifiable from without, to declare from without that it is unjustifiable is not to condemn it. And the truth is that outside of existence there is nobody. Man exists. For him it is not a question of wondering whether his presence in the world is useful, whether life is worth the trouble of being lived. These questions make no sense. It is a matter of knowing whether he wants to live and under what conditions.

    But if man is free to define for himself the conditions of a life which is valid in his own eyes, can he not choose whatever he likes and act however he likes? Dostoevsky asserted, "If God does not exist, everything is permitted." Today's believers use this formula for their own advantage. To re-establish man at the heart of his destiny is, they claim, to repudiate all ethics. However, far from God's absence authorizing all license, the contrary is the case, because man is abandoned on the earth, because his acts are definitive, absolute engagements. He bears the responsibility for a world which is not the work of a strange power, but of himself, where his defeats are inscribed, and his victories as well. A God can pardon, efface, and compensate. But if God does not exist, man's faults are inexpiable. If it is claimed that, whatever the case may be, this earthly stake has no importance, this is precisely because one invokes that inhuman objectivity which we declined at the start. One can not start by saying that our earthly destiny has or has not importance, for it depends upon us to give it importance. It is up to man to make it important to be a man, and he alone can feel his success or failure. And if it is again said that nothing forces him to try to justify his being in this way, then one is playing upon the notion of freedom in a dishonest way. The believer is also free to sin. The divine law is imposed upon him only from the moment he decides to save his soul. In the Christian religion, though one speaks very little about them today, there are also the damned. Thus, on the earthly plane, a life which does not seek to ground itself will be a pure contingency. But it is permitted to wish to give itself a meaning and a truth, and it then meets rigorous demands within its own heart.

    However, even among the proponents of secular ethics, there are many who charge existentialism with offering no objective content to the moral act. It is said that this philosophy is subjective, even solipsistic. If he is once enclosed within himself, how can man get out? But there too we have a great deal of dishonesty. It is rather well known that the fact of being a subject is a universal fact and that the Cartesian cogito expresses both the most individual experience and the most objective truth. By affirming that the source of all values resides in the freedom of man, existentialism merely carries on the tradition of Kant, Fichte, and Hegel, who, in the words of Hegel himself, "have taken for their point of departure the principle according to which the essence of right and duty and the essence of the thinking and willing subject are absolutely identical." The idea that defines all humanism is that the world is not a given world, foreign to man, one to which he has to force himself to yield without. It is the world willed by man, insofar as his will expresses his genuine reality." ~ Simone de Beauvoir

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    I'd recommend that you read some Kierkegaard. He wouldn't have been a fan of their's either. Yet he kinda got the whole "Existential" school of philosophy going to doubtlessly the chagrin of those godless commie fucktards. They owe their own careers and entire branch of philosophy to a fanatical theist in the ultimate end.

    I would most love to see the look on their face if they ever fully grasped that fact .
    My previous response to you on Kierkegaard:
    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    Kierkegaard is terrible. No one should fear a just being. No one should believe something contrary to what reason tells them to be true - is that even really possible?
    He actually tells you to believe things explicitly because they are unbelievable.

    He also justified Abraham being willing to kill simply because he was told to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    My previous response to you on Kierkegaard:


    He actually tells you to believe things explicitly because they are unbelievable.

    He also justified Abraham being willing to kill simply because he was told to.
    Observe closely, because here we can see the migratory patterns of the Internet argument in the wild.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    I'm not a big fan of Sartre, although I like Existentialism is a Humanism, even if he didn't seem to so much later.

    "Atheistic existentialism, which I represent, is more consistent. It states that if God does not exist, there is at least one being in whom existence precedes essence -a being whose existence comes before its essence, a being who exists before he can be defined by any concept of it. That being is man, or, as Heidegger put it, the human reality. What do we mean here by "existence precedes essence"? We mean that man first exists: he materializes in the world, encounters himself, and only afterward defines himself. If man as existentialists conceive of him cannot be defined, it is because to begin with he is nothing. He will not be anything until later, and then he will he what he makes of himself. Thus, there is no human nature since there is no God to conceive of it. Man is not only that which he conceives himself to be, but that which he wills himself to be, and since he conceives of himself only after he exists, just as he wills himself to be after being thrown into existence, man is nothing other than what he makes of himself. This is the first principle of existentialism." ~ Jean-Paul Sartre

    From The Ethics of Ambiguity by Simone de Beauvoir:

    "Before existence there is no more reason to exist than not to exist. The lack of existence can not be evaluated since it is the fact on the basis of which all evaluation is defined. It can not be compared to anything for there is nothing outside of it to serve as a term of comparison. This rejection of any extrinsic justification also confirm the rejection of an original pessimism which we posited at the beginning. Since it is unjustifiable from without, to declare from without that it is unjustifiable is not to condemn it. And the truth is that outside of existence there is nobody. Man exists. For him it is not a question of wondering whether his presence in the world is useful, whether life is worth the trouble of being lived. These questions make no sense. It is a matter of knowing whether he wants to live and under what conditions.

    But if man is free to define for himself the conditions of a life which is valid in his own eyes, can he not choose whatever he likes and act however he likes? Dostoevsky asserted, "If God does not exist, everything is permitted." Today's believers use this formula for their own advantage. To re-establish man at the heart of his destiny is, they claim, to repudiate all ethics. However, far from God's absence authorizing all license, the contrary is the case, because man is abandoned on the earth, because his acts are definitive, absolute engagements. He bears the responsibility for a world which is not the work of a strange power, but of himself, where his defeats are inscribed, and his victories as well. A God can pardon, efface, and compensate. But if God does not exist, man's faults are inexpiable. If it is claimed that, whatever the case may be, this earthly stake has no importance, this is precisely because one invokes that inhuman objectivity which we declined at the start. One can not start by saying that our earthly destiny has or has not importance, for it depends upon us to give it importance. It is up to man to make it important to be a man, and he alone can feel his success or failure. And if it is again said that nothing forces him to try to justify his being in this way, then one is playing upon the notion of freedom in a dishonest way. The believer is also free to sin. The divine law is imposed upon him only from the moment he decides to save his soul. In the Christian religion, though one speaks very little about them today, there are also the damned. Thus, on the earthly plane, a life which does not seek to ground itself will be a pure contingency. But it is permitted to wish to give itself a meaning and a truth, and it then meets rigorous demands within its own heart.

    However, even among the proponents of secular ethics, there are many who charge existentialism with offering no objective content to the moral act. It is said that this philosophy is subjective, even solipsistic. If he is once enclosed within himself, how can man get out? But there too we have a great deal of dishonesty. It is rather well known that the fact of being a subject is a universal fact and that the Cartesian cogito expresses both the most individual experience and the most objective truth. By affirming that the source of all values resides in the freedom of man, existentialism merely carries on the tradition of Kant, Fichte, and Hegel, who, in the words of Hegel himself, "have taken for their point of departure the principle according to which the essence of right and duty and the essence of the thinking and willing subject are absolutely identical." The idea that defines all humanism is that the world is not a given world, foreign to man, one to which he has to force himself to yield without. It is the world willed by man, insofar as his will expresses his genuine reality." ~ Simone de Beauvoir
    I'm not sure anyone in this discussion besides me will heed this, preferring "life is meaningless but we're awesome, woohoo!" levels of discussion which may or may not be accurate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    My previous response to you on Kierkegaard:


    He actually tells you to believe things explicitly because they are unbelievable.

    He also justified Abraham being willing to kill simply because he was told to.
    I've only read some Kierkegaard, and I'm under the impression that he's responsible for all the really dumb Christian meming you encounter in real life. What @FreelancePoliceman said about monotheists wanting to believe in a God which has nothing to do with them largely stands and is also dumb, but besides that 90% of the message of Christianity and other major religions if not much more seems like common sense or otherwise valid. I'm under the impression that before the wave of modern religions (Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, etc.) that for the most part people didn't consider if they'd be damned but when, and though some people were also very clearly not damned like Hercules and Balder from Greek and Norse mythology even in pre-modern times, it was basically a given who was blessed and damned with most being damned. I'm not sure the latter part changed post-modern religion though. Regardless, I don't think "love one another and be reconciled" is a half-bad message when the non-damned pagans even seemed to follow it, that is, it appears to be an objective fact, and Kierkegaard's hostility to objective facts is exactly what makes him seem useless to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by coeruleum View Post
    I've only read some Kierkegaard, and I'm under the impression that he's responsible for all the really dumb Christian meming you encounter in real life. What @FreelancePoliceman said about monotheists wanting to believe in a God which has nothing to do with them largely stands and is also dumb, but besides that 90% of the message of Christianity and other major religions if not much more seems like common sense or otherwise valid. I'm under the impression that before the wave of modern religions (Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, etc.) that for the most part people didn't consider if they'd be damned but when, and though some people were also very clearly not damned like Hercules and Balder from Greek and Norse mythology even in pre-modern times, it was basically a given who was blessed and damned with most being damned. I'm not sure the latter part changed post-modern religion though. Regardless, I don't think "love one another and be reconciled" is a half-bad message when the non-damned pagans even seemed to follow it, that is, it appears to be an objective fact, and Kierkegaard's hostility to objective facts is exactly what makes him seem useless to me.
    It is difficult to love others when you are taught to loathe yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    It is difficult to love others when you are taught to loathe yourself.
    I don't believe most modern religions, for all the problems I have with them, ever taught that originally, but people get it out of them regularly which is one of my biggest problems with them. I thought at least Christians and Muslims were supposed to like Aristotle: what's good for me is good for others and it's not a zero-sum game. However, they never seem to. Selflessness is a quite bad basis for a moral system. If everyone surrenders everything without distinction the result is the same as everyone destroying one another in a war of all against all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by coeruleum View Post
    I don't believe most modern religions, for all the problems I have with them, ever taught that originally, but people get it out of them regularly which is one of my biggest problems with them. I thought at least Christians and Muslims were supposed to like Aristotle: what's good for me is good for others and it's not a zero-sum game. However, they never seem to. Selflessness is a quite bad basis for a moral system. If everyone surrenders everything without distinction the result is the same as everyone destroying one another in a war of all against all.
    I think it's difficult to trust someone who has no concern for their own self-preservation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    I think it's difficult to trust someone who has no concern for their own self-preservation.
    I think it depends on what you consider the self. I think the whole flesh and spirit thing really is a good point. If you consider yourself your body, you can be made to do anything and even that will be lost because your intellect would degenerate. As it is now, everyone will die. Making intangibles more important than simply staying alive seems like a good starting point, though I don't believe in some kind of "Heaven" and I would like the body to be able to live indefinitely as well. I hope someone brings everyone back. If you're brought back, dying for a while is not a huge deal. I can't imagine a coherent non-awful afterlife really. People joke Heaven is a place where nothing happens and the Greeks complained about Hades for the same reason. I guess if you could influence the world like a ghost, saint, or angel that wouldn't apply, but I don't see a place of utter peace being appealing in any fashion even if it could exist. We all know how rest without light goes. It's a strange world when people are arguing Hades is great because it's not eternal unconsciousness. Yes, brain function goes on well after the rest of the body shuts down and we've all seen a spider's leg twitch while severed from its body. I'm sure humans could go to an unending solipsistic dreamworld easily within scientifically allowed parameters but I don't want that.

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