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Thread: So, is this SLE-Ti or SLI-Te?

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    Quote Originally Posted by xXdedXx View Post
    I was gonna say k4m seems EIE haha
    k4m writes like @Alonzo on drugs. LOL. Hence I'd entertain LIE as a possibility.

    And why not demonstrative and mobilizing functions are kind of sexy function to be used in self indulgent ways.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heretic 007 View Post
    k4m writes like @Alonzo on drugs. LOL. Hence I'd entertain LIE as a possibility.

    And why not demonstrative and mobilizing functions are kind of sexy function to be used in self indulgent ways.


    I've been laughing at this for the past 5 minutes because it's kinda true. The thing is, there is an aspect of K4M that I actually like and find to be entertaining/endearing--I harass and give him shit because 1.) he's also a troll and 2.) I don't think his evaluations are always sound, consistent and made in good faith without a side agenda. But he gives me a chuckle here and there.

    In the DCNH system, I think he's a C (accentuated Ne, Fe, Se) and being an Se valuer on top of it, we can come off as "extra" and "a lot." But I don't really see demonstrative 4D Ne in him, tho--not verbally fluent and nimble enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    Yeah, pretty funny. Obviously all SLE are psychopathic criminals that don't manage to do anything worthwhile in their life except maybe two thousand posts on a personality type forum and a pinterest collection nobody gives a shit about. Which sure as hell isn't nerdy or something a fucked-up NF would do while daydreaming about his bad boy SLE cartoon characters.

    About the typing, feel free to come with a suggestion if you think Se doesn't fit. That's what this thread is for, outside opinions for me to consider. The clown above already provided some fun, how about some substance too?
    I don't understand how anyone can take his posts seriously. Yet now everyone is talking about him rather than about you. Sucks but that's this forum for ya: people LOVE their stupid drama time.

    If you want substance, you came to the wrong forum. Good luck anyway, I guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    If you're talking about k4m, then yeah. I can see EIE in the drama and wild claims about predictive superpowers.

    In case you were talking about me, F types are pretty far off.
    have you considered ESTj-Te for yourself ? in your questionnaire I do not detect the flexibility of an EP
    Last edited by somnambulat0ry; 03-18-2020 at 11:31 AM. Reason: changed my mind on E*Tj after further reading

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    Quote Originally Posted by somnambulat0ry View Post
    have you considered E*Tj for yourself ? in your questionnaire I do not detect the flexibility of an EP
    Yeah, I didn't put that much effort in the questionnaire, it was just something to get done quickly so it probably didn't turn out all that good.
    The EJ types that I know seem to have more stable energy levels than I have and all online socionics tests I've found have indicated P rather than J, also clearly T/S over N/F.
    The most ambiguous one is E vs. I which depends on how much the questions are geared toward sociability for E.
    ESTj might be a possiblity but less rational LSI-Se or more rational SLE-Ti subtype seem more likely. More traits in Beta (aristocracy for example) fit than in Delta.
    Intertype relationships I have with Delta people are also much worse than those within Beta.

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    Your answers seem to fit SLI but some have a slight hint of N which may simply be due to word choice - or baggage/influence:

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ription-by-I-O

    a.k.a. I/O

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    I no longer think the OP is an SLE-Ti, as SLE-Ti are more playful and less dry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    Your answers seem to fit SLI but some have a slight hint of N which may simply be due to word choice - or baggage/influence:

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ription-by-I-O

    a.k.a. I/O
    Yeah, that's a good description and a lot of that can fit as well. Hence the title of this thread.

    I write english different from how I write in my native language and also different from how i talk. I write english much more formally and drily than my normal communication since everything else I write in english is professional.
    Not a good idea to read too much into the tone here, especially word choice and influence of socionics texts I've read. But yeah, even then I'm not that much for emotional displays and call it like I see it without sugarcoating or trying to be diplomatic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    Yeah, I didn't put that much effort in the questionnaire, it was just something to get done quickly so it probably didn't turn out all that good.
    The EJ types that I know seem to have more stable energy levels than I have and all online socionics tests I've found have indicated P rather than J, also clearly T/S over N/F.
    The most ambiguous one is E vs. I which depends on how much the questions are geared toward sociability for E.
    ESTj might be a possiblity but less rational LSI-Se or more rational SLE-Ti subtype seem more likely. More traits in Beta (aristocracy for example) fit than in Delta.
    Intertype relationships I have with Delta people are also much worse than those within Beta.
    there's something to this.
    I got a whiff of "rational type" and jumped to ESTj, which was silly. creative SI has not shown itself. LSI might be a better fit, especially if you relate to Beta quadra

    in terms of company you seek : a person who comes up with ideas of cool things to do would effectively relieve LSI Ne polr
    Ne , by your questionnaire, has little utility. as technical lead do you effectively manage /solve problems by way of mental flow chart(s) ? "no surprises"

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    Quote Originally Posted by somnambulat0ry View Post
    there's something to this.
    I got a whiff of "rational type" and jumped to ESTj, which was silly. creative SI has not shown itself. LSI might be a better fit, especially if you relate to Beta quadra

    in terms of company you seek : a person who comes up with ideas of cool things to do would effectively relieve LSI Ne polr
    Ne , by your questionnaire, has little utility. as technical lead do you effectively manage /solve problems by way of mental flow chart(s) ? "no surprises"
    Yeah, that's a good point. I like receiving a vision and then having clear objectives to solve, then I'll make it happen in practice. Often by distributing tasks to people I see most suited and making sure they are fulfilled according to my standards. I'm not creative or good at coming up with alternative solutions, usually I just push through the one I've chosen despite any obstacles.
    I don't plan much but keep track how things are progressing and structure things into lists of what has been done and what still needs to be done, according to priority.
    The closest working intertype relationships at the moment are as follows:
    - LII project manager, he is very good at predicting problems we might run into in the future as well as coming up with alternative solutions. Appreciates my "doer" mentality and ability to enforce and push people into doing what needs to be done, something that is difficult for him. We get along very well outside work too, although he thinks i'm too impulsive and too focused on the present. Whereas I think he's too inert and cautious.
    - LSE mech designer, he's very productive and conscientious. Quickly implements designs for things he is familiar with. Has issues imagining how things will turn out in the future and wants to erase all uncertainties. There is a sort of competetitiveness going on. We often argue due to differing viewpoints but the arguments as quickly dissipate when we realize that we actually agree. He's more for following "commonly known" rules (Te?) while I'm following my own personal rules (Ti?). He seems to think I'm too unkind and undiplomatic whereas I think he's unnecessarily pushy and cares too much about other people's rules.
    - EIE global product manager who is a true "head in the clouds" visionary. I appreciate his view of the big picture, enthusiasm and he appreciates me just making things happen. He thinks I lack communication skills and I think he's too feelings-driven at times.
    - ILI programmer, I like how he can focus on just the one thing he's working on and produce results on his own as well as have a good view on exactly how long it will take. He also appreciates the help in solving practical issues on the spot and pushing other people.
    Last edited by Northstar; 03-19-2020 at 07:51 AM.

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    I think it is safe to assume that T base is bit off. SLI might fit. Result division (especially of Fi/Te) is bit hard to grasp for me which could be some sort of value endurance testing of relations (more than response testing which puts more emphasis on adaptation among process types). Something that I have observed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    Yeah, that's a good description and a lot of that can fit as well. Hence the title of this thread.......
    If you're Beta ST, not much of a SLI description should apply to you. Unfortunately, the only article of mine on Beta ST that's still retrievable is a SLE uncovered profile, which seems to overly enrage many SLEs, so if you have that sort of reaction then it may be a clue. Most SLEs aren't deserving of this description but I've known several that were - also, the current US president:

    http://www.socionics.com/articles/unestp.html

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    If you're Beta ST, not much of a SLI description should apply to you. Unfortunately, the only article of mine on Beta ST that's still retrievable is a SLE uncovered profile, which seems to overly enrage many SLEs, so if you have that sort of reaction then it may be a clue. Most SLEs aren't deserving of this description but I've known several that were - also, the current US president:

    http://www.socionics.com/articles/unestp.html

    a.k.a. I/O
    The problem is that there's significant overlap in many descriptions of SLI(-Te), LSI-(Se), and SLE(-Ti). Subtypes bias the types so that they start to blur into each other.
    For every ST type actions speak more than words. Both introverted ST types (even some SLE-Ti descs) are described by outward calmness with inner rage. That's actually something that fits. I'm usually calm but it take surprisingly little to blow my fuse resulting in swift physical action (not so much words or shouting). My SLI friend thought it was funny so dunno if it's more LSI related then.

    Some of the parts where I don't agree with your SLI description is being very caring and considerate of friends and being loyal to people that don't deserve/want it. In that sense Beta fits much better. I don't have any close friends that I would engage outside of a specific environment (work, hobby).
    That uncovered SLE description was pretty funny but only contains negatives which I really see only as flipsides of some positives. On thing that stuck out is how I don't ever affirm people in my relationships. That's one point where I feel clearly different from a SLI friend of mine who tends to talk highly of his friends sometimes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    The problem is that there's significant overlap in many descriptions of SLI(-Te), LSI-(Se), and SLE(-Ti). Subtypes bias the types so that they start to blur into each other.
    For every ST type actions speak more than words. Both introverted ST types (even some SLE-Ti descs) are described by outward calmness with inner rage. That's actually something that fits. I'm usually calm but it take surprisingly little to blow my fuse resulting in swift physical action (not so much words or shouting)....... I don't have any close friends ....... On thing that stuck out is how I don't ever affirm people in my relationships.........
    Ip-types and to a lesser extent Ejs often have difficulty with objectivity - especially when it comes to themselves. Inner rage seems to be more common in LSE and SLI although all types can develop such attitudes due to negative life experiences or mental health issues. I know of more than a few SLI who haven't yet found anyone with whom they are close, and they certainly wouldn't affirm people; however, being generally detached from people as you seem to imply is more of an Ij trait. Two of the same type or subtype can be very different though they process information in exactly the same way - so one shouldn't compare onself with a final product (another person) but rather the processes that they use......

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    Ip-types and to a lesser extent Ejs often have difficulty with objectivity - especially when it comes to themselves. Inner rage seems to be more common in LSE and SLI although all types can develop such attitudes due to negative life experiences or mental health issues. I know of more than a few SLI who haven't yet found anyone with whom they are close, and they certainly wouldn't affirm people; however, being generally detached from people as you seem to imply is more of an Ij trait. Two of the same type or subtype can be very different though they process information in exactly the same way - so one shouldn't compare onself with a final product (another person) but rather the processes that they use......

    a.k.a. I/O
    I read the above as you're still suggesting SLI? The biggest issue I have with that is how I seem to get along better with Fe types than Fi types and I certainly value Ni / Se. Relative function strength only tells me xSTx.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    I read the above as you're still suggesting SLI? The biggest issue I have with that is how I seem to get along better with Fe types than Fi types and I certainly value Ni / Se. Relative function strength only tells me xSTx.
    People tend to be attracted to others who have similar configurations although they may not agree with one another. For example, Ips tend to attract other Ips and to a lesser extent Ejs simply because their processes have a familiar ring - an understanding of from where they are coming even though one may not like them or what they express. Ep processes and to a lesser extent Ijs would would feel somewhat foreign to them......

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Yeah, well, that could explain why I ended up with an IEE but we are in constant conflict. I am certainly not feeling any duality, more like constant misunderstanding of intentions and incompatible values.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    Yeah, well, that could explain why I ended up with an IEE but we are in constant conflict. I am certainly not feeling any duality, more like constant misunderstanding of intentions and incompatible values.
    The trouble with duality is that many people do not want what's good for them and they won't often realize the benefit of such relationships until they've thrown them away. Yes, they do often have very different values but healthy duals are usually capable of covering their partners back - they certainly won't assure them eternal bliss.........

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    The trouble with duality is that many people do not want what's good for them and they won't often realize the benefit of such relationships until they've thrown them away. Yes, they do often have very different values but healthy duals are usually capable of covering their partners back - they certainly won't assure them eternal bliss.........

    a.k.a. I/O
    Yeah, maybe. The most recent interaction was me commenting a gambling commercial that only idiots play those casino games and expect to end up winning. IEE of course got offended and asked if it’s draining to be so condescending of other people. I replied, truthfully, that it isn’t at all, it comes naturally without effort.
    What do you make of that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    Yeah, maybe. The most recent interaction was me commenting a gambling commercial that only idiots play those casino games and expect to end up winning. IEE of course got offended and asked if it’s draining to be so condescending of other people. I replied, truthfully, that it isn’t at all, it comes naturally without effort.
    What do you make of that?
    Would you say conflict with IEEs (and EIIs) is a recurring theme in your life?
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    Quote Originally Posted by queentiger View Post
    Would you say conflict with IEEs (and EIIs) is a recurring theme in your life?
    Yeah, as far as I can type them correctly. But usually their antics annoy me and vice versa. They just seem so damn touchy and ”understanding” of people I despise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    Yeah, as far as I can type them correctly. But usually their antics annoy me and vice versa. They just seem so damn touchy and ”understanding” of people I despise.
    I see - because if it was one or two occurrences then you could be duals (as duals aren't always great), however that being said if it is a common pattern scaling across your whole life - beta ST (LSI in this case, given you're on about IEEs) would be the better fit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by queentiger View Post
    I see - because if it was one or two occurrences then you could be duals (as duals aren't always great), however that being said if it is a common pattern scaling across your whole life - beta ST (LSI in this case, given you're on about IEEs) would be the better fit.
    That’s why I’m resisting delta typings. Unless I’ve grossly mistyped people then I just get a lot better along with IEI and EIE than IEE/EII. The former tend to agree or at least enjoy the discussion. The latter tend to be offended and say that I’m a bad person in various ways. They get even more offended when I think it’s funny.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    Yeah, maybe. The most recent interaction was me commenting a gambling commercial that only idiots play those casino games and expect to end up winning. IEE of course got offended and asked if it’s draining to be so condescending of other people. I replied, truthfully, that it isn’t at all, it comes naturally without effort.
    What do you make of that?
    I'm not suggesting that you're SLI even though your comment sounds very SLI-like; my online determination of someone else's type would be unreliable. I would certainly agree with what you said about gambling. However, perhaps the IEE was making an attempt to curb your directness. I've known several very intelligent people who destroyed their own lives simply by making cutting public statements showing little to no tact or restraint - but they were being honest.....

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ription-by-I-O

    a.k.a. I/O

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    @Northstar Take a look at this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Alonzo View Post
    First, answer this > can you physically feel/take on/mirror the emotions of others and whatever environment you're apart of, as if their feelings and moods are contagious? Valuing Fe involves being dynamically aware of the "continuous excitations in people's emotional" states, which I interpret as affective/emotional empathy, where brain cells called mirror neurons fire when we sense another’s emotional state, creating an echo of that state inside our own minds.

    To differing extents and degrees, all Fe valuers (E*Es, the most and L*Is, the least) are aware of and in tune with the ambient emotional vibes in others and the environment, though they may have differing facility and competency when it comes to utilizing and responding to this brand of "feedback." If you relate to this, then Alpha and Beta quadra are likely.

    If not, that leaves Delta and Gamma, who prefer Fi cognitive empathy or perspective taking, which concerns one's ability to identify and understand other people’s emotions by way of placing oneself in another's shoes. Those with strong, high D Fi can almost automatically and spontaneously take on another’s perspective while those with low D Fi struggle to do so as quickly and easily.

    The scientific community acknowledges that people access empathy channels differently and that there are those who are great at cognitive empathy but have trouble accessing affective empathy, namely because these two types of empathy are working completely different processing systems.

    In my experience/research/experiments/investigations, I have found that Gamma and Delta F types don't do affective empathy, which is part of the reason why they are often (negatively) perceived as selfish or self focused and refuse to fake or alter their emotional state to appease others, contrasted with Fe valuers who can have their feelings more easily moved and swayed by others and the environment, both of which are fine and valid. It's just that some people may be more genetically hardwired to physically feel the emotions of others.

    So which form of empathy do you cognitively prefer? It can make all the difference in the world when it comes to narrowing down your type options.
    I go more in depth in the link below:

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...=1#post1376158

    @queentiger You might benefit from this as well. A while back in one of your type me threads, I remember you saying that you experience emotional contagion, which only occurs with Fe valuers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    That’s why I’m resisting delta typings. Unless I’ve grossly mistyped people then I just get a lot better along with IEI and EIE than IEE/EII. The former tend to agree or at least enjoy the discussion. The latter tend to be offended and say that I’m a bad person in various ways. They get even more offended when I think it’s funny.
    I see. The two patterns emerging here are:
    1) You consistently conflict with IEEs
    2) You consistently get along with Beta NFs

    As such, it is much more likely that you are in Beta quadra.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alonzo View Post
    @Northstar Take a look at this:



    I go more in depth in the link below:

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...=1#post1376158

    @queentiger You might benefit from this as well. A while back in one of your type me threads, I remember you saying that you experience emotional contagion, which only occurs with Fe valuers.
    Reading that, that's a hard pass. It would seem I was on gas and air when I made that statement.
    That being said - I can elaborate in DMs if you want. I'd rather not derail the thread
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    I'm not suggesting that you're SLI even though your comment sounds very SLI-like; my online determination of someone else's type would be unreliable. I would certainly agree with what you said about gambling. However, perhaps the IEE was making an attempt to curb your directness. I've known several very intelligent people who destroyed their own lives simply by making cutting public statements showing little to no tact or restraint - but they were being honest.....

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ription-by-I-O

    a.k.a. I/O
    Yep a lot of that matches my view of IEE. Most of all I get tired of the constant shift in interests and goals. I want to stick with just one until it is achieved instead of a new one every week. Also, it’s impossible to discuss anything other than mundane stuff since explaining something is taken as an insult on intelligence. Ti-seekers seem to like it instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alonzo View Post
    @Northstar Take a look at this:



    I go more in depth in the link below:

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...=1#post1376158

    @queentiger You might benefit from this as well. A while back in one of your type me threads, I remember you saying that you experience emotional contagion, which only occurs with Fe valuers.
    Interesting. Yes, I experience emotional contagion. Even if I don’t want to, I often start to automatically mirror the emotions of others. And it is very difficult to place myself in someone else’s shoes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    Interesting. Yes, I experience emotional contagion. Even if I don’t want to, I often start to automatically mirror the emotions of others. And it is very difficult to place myself in someone else’s shoes.
    I don't have a solid opinion on your type, just following along because it's interesting and your quote above prompted a few thoughts.

    Emotional contagion and mirroring of the emotional environment definitely seems Fe. Since SLI was a consideration for you, my observation of SLIs is that they're like stone/pretty chill in the face of the emotional environment; it just rolls off them and seems to have little effect on their state. I only see them get annoyed if the Fe is deliberately pushing them for a reaction or consistently trying to change their mood rather than letting them be.

    LSIs and SLEs, on the other hand, appreciate having their mood and emotions influenced (in the way they like, of course). It makes them feel more alive and connected to others.

    Having difficulty placing yourself in someone else's shoes could be Fi PoLR, although it could be other things, too. Having Fi demonstrative and Fe creative, I experience both the emotional contagion and perspective-shifting (high empathy).
    Last edited by Emily; 03-20-2020 at 01:12 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    Most of all I get tired of the constant shift in interests and goals. I want to stick with just one until it is achieved instead of a new one every week.
    Observing what seems like Ni-valuing in this statement. Not sure if Ne PoLR. How upset do you become if you're expected to constantly ping around to ever-changing goals? Do you feel overwhelmed and angry, mildly annoyed, can you keep up even if you don't want to, etc?

    The SLIs I've known aren't really tied to a goal, nor are they looking for The One Big Goal. They provide stable grounding and provision in the physical realm, but find the Ne pinging around to be fun and refreshing.

    Still not sure if LSI-Se or SLE-Ti (I agree with your observation that there's a lot of overlap in the descriptions), but I'm not seeing SLI for you. Of course, I'm just a stranger on the internet and I'm sure you have many more facets than what you've shown in this thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emily View Post
    Observing what seems like Ni-valuing in this statement. Not sure if Ne PoLR. How upset do you become if you're expected to constantly ping around to ever-changing goals? Do you feel overwhelmed and angry, mildly annoyed, can you keep up even if you don't want to, etc?

    The SLIs I've known aren't really tied to a goal, nor are they looking for The One Big Goal. They provide stable grounding and provision in the physical realm, but find the Ne pinging around to be fun and refreshing.

    Still not sure if LSI-Se or SLE-Ti (I agree with your observation that there's a lot of overlap in the descriptions), but I'm not seeing SLI for you. Of course, I'm just a stranger on the internet and I'm sure you have many more facets than what you've shown in this thread
    I get really frustrated especially if I had already invested effort and money in something and then the goal changes. I easily latch on a suggestion that I like and take it very seriously but expect full cooperation and alignment from others. I feel relieved when there aren't too many options to choose from and start by eliminating them until there is only one left.

    Thanks again to Alonzo's efforts in VI comparison by PM, I agree with his suggestion of LSI based on that. It fits surprisingly well. I had my own suspicions of the type already but didn't want to bias the discussion too much yet. And in case of subtypes, LSI-Se fits much better.
    Some of the things that immediately come to mind from that fit LSI:
    - When disciplining, I start with asking nicely once or twice, but if it doesn't work then I start gradually applying more and more pain. Tightening the screws.
    - VI-related, the father of a gf once commented how he liked that I always had a straight posture and walked briskly not looking like a sloucher. I often get comments how I always sit with a straight back as well.
    - Many of my bosses at work have complimented on how they see me as a reliable, solid lieutenant that takes care of any problem. Also that I never show any signs of distress which makes it hard to judge if I'm overworked or not.
    - I like wearing my work clothes as a sort of uniform which gives a feeling of belonging to this company and being proud of it.
    - I easily fall into daily routines and get a feeling of wrongness when I'm forced to deviate from them. Like my daily workout routine that I can't continue now because of the pandemic.
    - During one of the arguments with IEE ex she compared the inside of her head to chaos and that she sees me as the complete opposite (order). Then again most types would seem orderly compared to IEE..

    Also regarding the previous comment on Fe. I often appreciate mood-lifting music and such efforts from others (especially when they're done in my style), despite the serious exterior it doesn't take much for me to get informal and silly if I feel the environment is right for that kind of expression that builds camaraderie. I also like metal concerts (most recently seen Lindemann, Rammstein and Sabaton) and the feeling of brotherhood that they often give. I'm pretty nationalistic and idealize the classic beta notions of belonging, us vs. them-mentality and trusting your life with your brother in arms. That kind of stuff I enjoyed when serving in the military. Not so much the obeying of arbitrary rules part though. One of my best friends is probably LSI, he liked it enough in the military to remain a few more years and do a couple peacekeeping tours too. We just don't see each other that often anymore due to residing in different countries and neither of us coming up with ideas of what to do.
    Last edited by Northstar; 03-20-2020 at 08:35 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    I get really frustrated especially if I had already invested effort and money in something and then the goal changes. I easily latch on a suggestion that I like and take it very seriously but expect full cooperation and alignment from others. I feel relieved when there aren't too many options to choose from and start by eliminating them until there is only one left.

    Thanks again to Alonzo's efforts in VI comparison by PM, I agree with his suggestion of LSI based on that. It fits surprisingly well. I had my own suspicions of the type already but didn't want to bias the discussion too much yet. And in case of subtypes, LSI-Se fits much better.
    Some of the things that immediately come to mind from that fit LSI:
    - When disciplining, I start with asking nicely once or twice, but if it doesn't work then I start gradually applying more and more pain. Tightening the screws.
    - VI-related, the father of a gf once commented how he liked that I always had a straight posture and walked briskly not looking like a sloucher. I often get comments how I always sit with a straight back as well.
    - Many of my bosses at work have complimented on how they see me as a reliable, solid lieutenant that takes care of any problem. Also that I never show any signs of distress which makes it hard to judge if I'm overworked or not.
    - I like wearing my work clothes as a sort of uniform which gives a feeling of belonging to this company and being proud of it.
    - I easily fall into daily routines and get a feeling of wrongness when I'm forced to deviate from them. Like my daily workout routine that I can't continue now because of the pandemic.
    - During one of the arguments with IEE ex she compared the inside of her head to chaos and that she sees me as the complete opposite (order). Then again most types would seem orderly compared to IEE..

    Also regarding the previous comment on Fe. I often appreciate mood-lifting music and such efforts from others (especially when they're done in my style), despite the serious exterior it doesn't take much for me to get informal and silly if I feel the environment is right for that kind of expression that builds camaraderie. I also like metal concerts (most recently seen Lindemann, Rammstein and Sabaton) and the feeling of brotherhood that they often give. I'm pretty nationalistic and idealize the classic beta notions of belonging, us vs. them-mentality and trusting your life with your brother in arms. That kind of stuff I enjoyed when serving in the military. Not so much the obeying of arbitrary rules part though. One of my best friends is probably LSI, he liked it enough in the military to remain a few more years and do a couple peacekeeping tours too. We just don't see each other that often anymore due to residing in different countries and neither of us coming up with ideas of what to do.
    Glad you were able to settle on a type, it was fun hearing more about you and contrasting your LSI-Se characteristics with other LSIs in my life. LSI-Se seems like a great fit based on your list; I can better see your relationship with Ne now. Interesting how I focused more on your relationship with Ni...I suppose I'm Ne-ignoring, after all, so wasn't looking for that as much as I was Ni.

    I could picture an LSI-Se father of two of my students doing every single thing you described: his approach to discipline, he walks very upright and purposefully/powerfully/quickly, and "lieutenant" is an amazing descriptor for him. I will give him instructions for the boys and I feel like this makes him alert, then by the next week everything has been carried out to the letter. I never worry he'll forget something.

    In contrast, I feel like SLEs swagger a bit more They have a smirk about them sometimes, while LSIs expressions are much more serious and appropriate unless they feel it's okay to cut loose. I also don't see SLEs as being particularly loyal to a cause. They're too spontaneous and chaotic most of the time, preferring to go where their impulses take them (or at least be able to change course whenever they want).

    There seem to be significant differences between your subtype and Ti subtype, too. I know someone of the Ti subtype and he's extremely laid-back. Seems less purposeful. His gait is slow and fluid, and he has a sort of tuned-out expression most of the time, like he's in a fog (enneagram 9w8 I think). He perks up really well if I come on strong with Fe and make lots of eye contact. It's more work for me to interact with him because I really have to dial up the Fe for us to connect, which feels one-way and is draining after a while. Interactions with Se subtype flow more naturally since they're more responsive and initiating.

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    Since my intertype relationship with IEE seems to align closer to super-ego than conflictor, especially after reading some entertaining Strat blog posts, I decided to give the Reinin dichotomies that I have ignored thus far a try.
    This is what I came up with:
    - Merry/Serious -> Merry
    - Judicious/Decisive -> Decisive
    - Static/Dynamic -> Static
    - Process/Result -> Result
    - Positivist/Negativist -> Negativist
    - Asking/Declaring -> Declaring
    - Constructivism/Emotivism -> Constructivism (this is one key thing where I don't relate to the LSI I know)
    - Yielding/Obstinate -> Yielding (a strange name, but i consider my resources more sacred than my ideas)
    - Carelessness/Farsighted -> Farsighted (i definitely always pack way too much stuff just to be prepared for anything)
    - Democrats/Aristocrats -> Aristocrat

    Go figure, since this would indicate SLE instead of LSI. It's just the Stratievskaya (I'm aware that in general they're really overdramatized) description of Super-Ego relations between IEE and SLE fit very very well and that relationship is the reason I took up socionics in the first place.

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    @Northstar what you said about your relationship with IEE is very similar to mine with SLE. I think he admired me and kind of saw me as an IEI because I was quiet. We had a very cool friendship that we valued and found precious. Now he still tries to contact me from time to time and he apologized very sincerly because he lets our relationship fall. I responded but I tried to keep as much distance as I can. Despite values differences, we had sympathy for each other, he would fight with me then he would blame himself and try to solve it or if I'm the mistaken on he would forgive me easily.

    Btw he reminds me a lot of Khabib nurmagomedov who I think is SLE-Ti.

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    LSI

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    After laughing hard at the other Strat blogs of intertype relationships I find SLE fits much better than LSI. Being pretty far on the rationality scale towards Ti would explain the similarities to LSI.
    My examination of this typing issue from multiple viewpoints is also more likely a feature of flexible creative Ti and H-P cognitive style.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    Since my intertype relationship with IEE seems to align closer to super-ego than conflictor, especially after reading some entertaining Strat blog posts, I decided to give the Reinin dichotomies that I have ignored thus far a try.
    This is what I came up with:
    - Merry/Serious -> Merry
    - Judicious/Decisive -> Decisive
    - Static/Dynamic -> Static
    - Process/Result -> Result
    - Positivist/Negativist -> Negativist
    - Asking/Declaring -> Declaring
    - Constructivism/Emotivism -> Constructivism (this is one key thing where I don't relate to the LSI I know)
    - Yielding/Obstinate -> Yielding (a strange name, but i consider my resources more sacred than my ideas)
    - Carelessness/Farsighted -> Farsighted (i definitely always pack way too much stuff just to be prepared for anything)
    - Democrats/Aristocrats -> Aristocrat

    Go figure, since this would indicate SLE instead of LSI. It's just the Stratievskaya (I'm aware that in general they're really overdramatized) description of Super-Ego relations between IEE and SLE fit very very well and that relationship is the reason I took up socionics in the first place.
    A few things >

    1.) First of all, Socionists can't even fully agree on the validity of the Reinen dichotomies, in part, because they are inconsistently derived--some entail purely theoretical constructs and others are gleamed by way of observing behavior. Moreover, not all dichotomies possess the same amount of weighted importance as it pertains to a type's fundamental makeup. For example, the result/process dichotomy concerns the flow of information, and so an SLE (result type) will always be activated by Fe -> Se and an LSI (process type) by Ni -> Ti. But that still isn't to say that a result type can't also care about process and vice versa, because humans tend to care about both, but may prioritize one over the other, along a continuum and depending on the context.

    And FWIW, the below sounds more like a process type:

    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    I don't plan much but keep track how things are progressing and structure things into lists of what has been done and what still needs to be done, according to priority.
    2.) Subtype, and the degree/strength of subtype, matters, and can skew how a type manifests, including but not limited to IR; it's not difficult to imagine how an LSI-Se and an IEE-Fi might mimic the IR of a standard SLE and IEE. And are you certain that you've accurately typed the IEE? Could they not be EII-Ne, which could still ostensibly create a dynamic similar to the super ego relation of SLE and IEE? Wouldn't it make more sense to rely on a method actually empirical in nature, certainly more empirical than what most other Socionists have produced? A valid enough methodology of typing that lead to the discernment of phentotypical patterns that correlated with certain sociotypes, the results of which could be readily replicated? I love Strat but she doesn't possess that type of evidence based backing and support.

    I first typed as INTJ in MBTI and later on, ILI-Te in Socionics, and I still relate to many of the INTJ/ILI profile descriptions, which should be no surprise seeing as how LIE and ILI are brother types and I'm LIE-Ni, a more intuitive breed of LIE and a contact subtype, which might bear a greater resemblance to one's mirror relation. I vacillated for a few months between ILI and LIE until VI and good ol' inductive reasoning set me free. My premise is based on a certain phenotypical pattern having been observed among LIEs that distinguishes them from other types, and because I fit that pattern, the likely conclusion is that I am that type. And the more I studied and investigated a LIE's valued IEs and function stacking, the more clarity and certainty I experienced. I don't find profile descriptions to be the most reliable because oftentimes, they lean more towards a certain sub type. For example, ENTJ in MBTI is often a D in the DCNH system or LIE-Te--that's why I never could fully get behind most ENTJ profiles, which routinely led me to mistype myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alonzo View Post
    A few things >

    1.) First of all, Socionists can't even fully agree on the validity of the Reinen dichotomies, in part, because they are inconsistently derived--some entail purely theoretical constructs and others are gleamed by way of observing behavior. Moreover, not all dichotomies possess the same amount of weighted importance as it pertains to a type's fundamental makeup. For example, the result/process dichotomy concerns the flow of information, and so an SLE (result type) will always be activated by Fe -> Se and an LSI (process type) by Ni -> Ti. But that still isn't to say that a result type can't also care about process and vice versa, because humans tend to care about both, but may prioritize one over the other, along a continuum and depending on the context.

    And FWIW, the below sounds more like a process type:



    2.) Subtype, and the degree/strength of subtype, matters, and can skew how a type manifests, including but not limited to IR; it's not difficult to imagine how an LSI-Se and an IEE-Fi might mimic the IR of a standard SLE and IEE. And are you certain that you've accurately typed the IEE? Could they not be EII-Ne, which could still ostensibly create a dynamic similar to the super ego relation of SLE and IEE? Wouldn't it make more sense to rely on a method actually empirical in nature, certainly more empirical than what most other Socionists have produced? A valid enough methodology of typing that lead to the discernment of phentotypical patterns that correlated with certain sociotypes, the results of which could be readily replicated? I love Strat but she doesn't possess that type of evidence based backing and support.

    I first typed as INTJ in MBTI and later on, ILI-Te in Socionics, and I still relate to many of the INTJ/ILI profile descriptions, which should be no surprise seeing as how LIE and ILI are brother types and I'm LIE-Ni, a more intuitive breed of LIE and a contact subtype, which might bear a greater resemblance to one's mirror relation. I vacillated for a few months between ILI and LIE until VI and good ol' inductive reasoning set me free. My premise is based on a certain phenotypical pattern having been observed among LIEs that distinguishes them from other types, and because I fit that pattern, the likely conclusion is that I am that type. And the more I studied and investigated a LIE's valued IEs and function stacking, the more clarity and certainty I experienced. I don't find profile descriptions to be the most reliable because oftentimes, they lean more towards a certain sub type. For example, ENTJ in MBTI is often a D in the DCNH system or LIE-Te--that's why I never could fully get behind most ENTJ profiles, which routinely led me to mistype myself.
    Yes, I'm not fully convinced on the Reinin dichotomies which is why I only now considered them as a tool. It doesn't help that sometimes conflicting naming is used.

    Regarding subtype of the IEE I've talked about, yes, IEE-Fi would be the subtype. VI based on the Filatova portraits could be either IEE or EII. Body shape matches the EII-Ne visual description but I would place much more weight on facial expressions than body shape. So yes, definitely a shift towards Fi for her. Te is very highly valued and usually her complaints on things are delivered through Te. She devalues Se but can often have flashes of verbal anger and advocates ethical punishments ("how would you feel if you were treated like this?"). Ti seems very painful, she cannot deal with structures at all and will never admit to being wrong about anything.

    One central issue with type descriptions is that they often might be (consciously or unconsciously) biased towards one subtype. Most Strat descriptions of LSI seem way too much Ti for me but some more balanced or Se-leaning ones definitely feel familiar.

    Thanks for the useful comments again.

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    @Northstar

    You said somewhere, what you want from beta NF is help with picking a goal and vision and then also help with remaining committed to it. How does the remaining committed part work? What do you need help with regarding that?

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