Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 43

Thread: Ways you don't relate to your quadra

  1. #1
    Emily's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    TIM
    IEI-Fe Sx/So 1w?
    Posts
    171
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Ways you don't relate to your quadra

    I've been pondering this lately. When I look at Beta quadra I sometimes feel like I was adopted and have alluded to the fact that being a type One (with its emphasis on values and scruples) can look like Fi. I suppose this could mean I'm mistyped, but I kind of don't think so. (My understanding of Fe and Fi could also need work, but that's beside the point....)

    Anyway, are you a pretty classic exemplar of your quadra? Maybe you don't really relate to--or have rejected--a lot of their values by conscious choice, maybe you were raised to value something else, or maybe you're something of a mishmash? I'll try to post more later about my own experience.

  2. #2
    Rusal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    TIM
    SEI-Si
    Posts
    68
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    SEIs can be secretive and resent any attack on their freedom. We may not react well when we perceive people want to curb our mobility or ask too invasive questions. For a while there I thought this corresponded with Delta's complex of clipped wings. That got me confused.

    Also, I was reading a machine-generated translation of an article on duality in Russian, and it did mention that a person may dopt more of their parents values if they are from a different quadra, so it is a possibility that the result may not be a classic representative of a sociotype. I don't know if this holds any truth and it would get awfully convoluted to type someone it you had to add this factor on top of the subtypes.

  3. #3
    Grendel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    gay baby hell
    Posts
    1,559
    Mentioned
    107 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    The Delta life strategy (being extremely sedentary and stingy) and the IEE type are things I see heavily in myself, but the bubbliness attached to IEEs I don't have, and I tend to come off more hostile and rough around the edges than Si/Ne is said to be.

    The whole "melodrama" framing of the world attached to Betas (juxtaposition of frivolous and dead-serious) is something else I relate to, but I'm anti-Ni in the extreme, in that handling time and looking ahead are the things I do worst. And Se-valuers are a lot more muscular and agile than I. So I guess I'm in a funny spot.

  4. #4

    Default

    The way I don't relate to my type might actually be how I relate to one part of my type more strongly than the other part. I relate to having Ni Ti & Se than Fe. I actually don't know how I'm Fe creative other than not being Te creative and preferring Ti.

    I'm not emotionally provocative or expressive most of the time. as that impedes on my ability to use intuition (Ni) or get things done without any issues (Se). I'm a person who likes to think to myself, then without sharing my insights, act. And uh, Ti is in there somewhere. But Fe? I can't see it. I never participate in any boisterous conversations, at least in the way people want me to... I'm always calm, and my voice never changes much.

    Furthermore, I actually do take care of my body. I do renounce comfort sometimes, if the end in sight has something I want. Taking care of my body though was definitely a gradual learning process for me.

  5. #5
    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    TIM
    SLE
    Posts
    2,769
    Mentioned
    203 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    - A lot of people here seem to think I’m gamma lol, and in irl my longer term friends tend to be gammas too. Relationships that are mostly based on short term fun and emotions have a hard time starting up and especially sticking for me. Mutually beneficial action needs to be happening constantly.
    - I’m really quite conservative about many things. I don’t do thrilling dangerous things just for the sake of it. I avoid risky situations unless I really think it’ll be worth it.
    - Being healthy is very important to me.
    Last edited by sbbds; 02-10-2020 at 02:00 AM.

  6. #6
    FreelancePoliceman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Maizistan
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    1,001
    Mentioned
    85 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I've read a few times that Alphas are likely to participate in group drug use. The operative word might be "group", and I've just never happened to be in a group where anything harder than weed or alcohol was being passed around, but I'm averse to the idea of most anything that might change me somehow -- I don't even like to take medicine.

    That said, I do drink socially since I feel light inebriation can add to a group dynamic, I know more or less how alcohol affects me, and I feel I'm able to control myself relatively well when drunk.

    Don't know too much more about quadra stereotypes honestly.
    I was a Democratic caucus. Have you ever been to a caucus? No you haven't. You're a lying dog-faced pony soldier.

  7. #7
    YXPR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    TIM
    INFp / VEFL
    Posts
    174
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I relate a lot to the stereotypical beta quadra values but both my mom and my sister are beta too so it might have helped. Out of all my beta friends I am actually the one who struggles the most with dealing with people from the opposite quadra even though this is slowly changing (adulting I guess).

    The only thing that I could think of is the fact that I'm not always "nice" or "cheerful". I can be very cold, rude and even mean if I'm not feeling well or if I'm not feeling you.

  8. #8
    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,351
    Mentioned
    89 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    There are many non-socionics factors that could attribute to one feeling out-of-synch with certain subgroups from your own quadra. E.g. the social environment you grew up in. Speaking in very generalized terms: I grew up in a labor-class neighborhood of Amsterdam, where the culture was largely Beta. But I am from a family with potential to upwards cultural social mobility (as opposed to economic upward mobility) . Also because of that I have a psychology of a more liberal minded Delta. That doesn't mix well with e.g. the very strict type of self-control one sees in bible belt Calvinists in my country (we too have a bible belt over here). In my moral attitudes I am clearly a Delta, but even when there are clear similarities in moral attitudes between liberal Deltas such as myself and conservative Calvinist Deltas, and the style is similar, the content of these moral attitudes is not.

    Socionics is about style, but not about content. Still, content matters too in interpersonal interactions, which can explain why we cannot always be ourselves with other members from our own quadra.

    I am in a relationship with an SEI woman. There are frictions in our relationship because of quadra differences, but in other ways we get along fine. This is because we share a common (sub)cultural background. My GF too is from a labor class background, from a family with potential to upwards social mobility. Both of us can't properly mingle with other people from other social classes, not even the social class we both came from, we just do not fit in very well. We do, however, mingle very well with other people like us that have outgrown their own social class. All of us people too big to be the table napkin, too small to be the table cloth. Our styles are different, but our contents are the same. That is a common denominator just as well.
    Last edited by consentingadult; 02-10-2020 at 10:25 AM.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

  9. #9
    Rebelondeck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    1,305
    Mentioned
    113 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    ENTp is the worst relationship while ISFp is better but still very problematic. The priorities of both are usually very different from mine, and their approaches often interfere. The former has similar perceptions as mine but we disagree on what to do about it in a sort of ego war. I come across as cold and aloof to the latter who comes across to me as a rather defensive with limited opinions of their own caused by tunnel vision. ESFjs can be intrusive, impulsive and too convinced, which I can usually tolerate because their interests are not usually that significant to me. INTjs do the same thing as me only differently enough to be irritating.....

    a.k.a. I/O
    Last edited by Rebelondeck; 02-10-2020 at 03:55 PM.

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    369
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don't relate to any quadra at all, my family is quite a mix of quads and not the smoothest of IR runs in it. I find tough to even relate to a type at this point, what is upbringing, what is personal preferences, what might be both...
    I don't have a very good sense of self, it probably does not help.

  11. #11
    Frddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Livonian order
    TIM
    ILI-Te
    Posts
    16
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    x
    Last edited by Frddy; 03-09-2020 at 03:03 PM.

  12. #12
    Emily's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    TIM
    IEI-Fe Sx/So 1w?
    Posts
    171
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusal View Post
    SEIs can be secretive and resent any attack on their freedom. We may not react well when we perceive people want to curb our mobility or ask too invasive questions. For a while there I thought this corresponded with Delta's complex of clipped wings. That got me confused.
    My mom's SEI and I see this in her. Is it related to Te PoLR, I wonder, and not wanting to be told what to do? Specifically, she rarely alludes to her life before I was born. It's the sort of situation where I don't ask, and she doesn't tell. I think this also has a lot to do with her being a Social Six. She really fears people's judgment, so keeps quiet if anything about her deviates from what's acceptable or "normal" in her current social circle.

    Was there anything that helped clear up your confusion?

    Also, I was reading a machine-generated translation of an article on duality in Russian, and it did mention that a person may dopt more of their parents values if they are from a different quadra, so it is a possibility that the result may not be a classic representative of a sociotype. I don't know if this holds any truth and it would get awfully convoluted to type someone it you had to add this factor on top of the subtypes.
    So interesting. Well, I feel like this is definitely true of me. Mom's Alpha, Dad's Gamma, and my sister is either Delta or Alpha. Some of those values I've discarded, but others have become deeply ingrained, ones that I don't equate with Beta at all.

  13. #13
    Emily's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    TIM
    IEI-Fe Sx/So 1w?
    Posts
    171
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    The whole "melodrama" framing of the world attached to Betas (juxtaposition of frivolous and dead-serious) is something else I relate to, but I'm anti-Ni in the extreme, in that handling time and looking ahead are the things I do worst. And Se-valuers are a lot more muscular and agile than I. So I guess I'm in a funny spot.
    I've known really bubbly IEEs, but what you're saying about yourself reminds me of one of my closest friends in high school, an IEE Sx/Sp 4w5. Definitely some melodrama, and not super bubbly. She was actually the quiet one when we interacted in our social circle. She was one of the only people I could truly be emotionally authentic/expressive with. Nothing ever surprised or freaked her out in that regard, her emotional range was astounding.

    Interestingly enough, I never reached that level of emotional realness with an EIE friend around the same time, a Social 2w3 who was very concerned with needing to be constantly positive and "perfect," the girl everyone wanted to be you could say. Sexual vs Social probably plays a role in that.

  14. #14
    Aramas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    United States
    TIM
    EII-Ne
    Posts
    1,456
    Mentioned
    95 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    I just don't relate. Problem solved.

  15. #15
    Emily's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    TIM
    IEI-Fe Sx/So 1w?
    Posts
    171
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sithis View Post
    The way I don't relate to my type might actually be how I relate to one part of my type more strongly than the other part. I relate to having Ni Ti & Se than Fe. I actually don't know how I'm Fe creative other than not being Te creative and preferring Ti.

    I'm not emotionally provocative or expressive most of the time. as that impedes on my ability to use intuition (Ni) or get things done without any issues (Se). I'm a person who likes to think to myself, then without sharing my insights, act. And uh, Ti is in there somewhere. But Fe? I can't see it. I never participate in any boisterous conversations, at least in the way people want me to... I'm always calm, and my voice never changes much.
    Are you IEI-Ni? I know IEIs who are similar to how you describe yourself, and ones who can more easily appear extraverted, like myself. I read an interesting article (I think the author is a member of this forum) speculating on the functional strengths of each subtype: https://typevolution.com/2016/08/28/...hs-weaknesses/

    According to this, an IEI-Ni slightly favors their Ni and Ti (Intuition and Thinking), where an IEI-Fe like myself has boosted Feeling and Sensing. The Ni subtype struggles with the suggestive (Se) more than the PoLR (Te), while the Fe subtype struggles most with the PoLR but can make better attempts at the suggestive Se. I don't know how legit this is, but it matches what I've seen from the different IEIs in my life.

    Furthermore, I actually do take care of my body. I do renounce comfort sometimes, if the end in sight has something I want. Taking care of my body though was definitely a gradual learning process for me.
    This is almost exactly my relationship with my body/health now, a learning process like you said. It doesn't help I'm Sp last, but one can learn! And yes, I notice myself letting those physical comfort things (Si) slide quite a bit if I feel like my Ni goal is more important. Everything is always, always second to that darn Ni.

  16. #16
    Emily's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    TIM
    IEI-Fe Sx/So 1w?
    Posts
    171
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    - A lot of people here seem to think I’m gamma lol, and in irl my longer term friends tend to be gammas too. Relationships that are mostly based on short term fun and emotions have a hard time starting up and especially sticking for me. Mutually beneficial action needs to be happening constantly.
    - I’m really quite conservative about many things. I don’t do thrilling dangerous things just for the sake of it. I avoid risky situations unless I really think it’ll be worth it.
    - Being healthy is very important to me.
    Those gammas have a way of worming their way into your heart. What other types have people proposed for you? The short-term "fun" relationships you mention don't usually sound appealing to me, either, at least not on a regular basis. I like those kinds of gathering from time to time, but quickly get worn out if it's not balanced with a more individualized, intense connection.

    You sound heavy on the Ti, is that fair to say? The SLE-Ti I went out with a few times had some of those same conservative behaviors. Kind of Delta-ish in a way. He even said on the second date that he was very frugal, but hastily added he loved shopping.

  17. #17
    Emily's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    TIM
    IEI-Fe Sx/So 1w?
    Posts
    171
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    I've read a few times that Alphas are likely to participate in group drug use. The operative word might be "group", and I've just never happened to be in a group where anything harder than weed or alcohol was being passed around, but I'm averse to the idea of most anything that might change me somehow -- I don't even like to take medicine.

    That said, I do drink socially since I feel light inebriation can add to a group dynamic, I know more or less how alcohol affects me, and I feel I'm able to control myself relatively well when drunk.

    Don't know too much more about quadra stereotypes honestly.
    I'd have to research Alpha group dynamics more, too, I'm blanking at the moment...

    What you said reminds me a bit of my ILE friend. She doesn't like to take anything that will alter the way she thinks. It scares her to feel like her thinking would be inhibited or that she wouldn't be in control of her mind. If she wasn't mildly allergic to alcohol, I could see her drinking a bit more to loosen up and contribute to that pleasant, laughter-filled atmosphere you mentioned. That seems very Alpha.

  18. #18
    Emily's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    TIM
    IEI-Fe Sx/So 1w?
    Posts
    171
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RBRS View Post
    Although I have always seen organized political structures (a party or movement) as coercitive of individual action and sectarian in nature, I have had strong tendencies toward radicalism and extremist ideologies. In fact, I have been involved in political activism for the sake of a radical political philosophy in my youth (nothing big, but is something gamma types wouldn't naturally tend to do)
    That activism does seem outside typical Gamma values. My ILI father has some unusual and even fundamentalist viewpoints and is decidedly mistrustful/cynical towards most forms of government (what you said about "coercive of individual action" describes him to a T), but I can't imagine him taking to political activism unless he was being interfered with in some way. He basically just wants to be left alone.

  19. #19
    Emily's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    TIM
    IEI-Fe Sx/So 1w?
    Posts
    171
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by YXPR View Post
    I relate a lot to the stereotypical beta quadra values but both my mom and my sister are beta too so it might have helped. Out of all my beta friends I am actually the one who struggles the most with dealing with people from the opposite quadra even though this is slowly changing (adulting I guess).
    Your post got me thinking. I'm sure it isn't always true, but it seems like people who grow up with members of their own quadra have better relationships with their family and a more secure sense of identity (i.e. accepting yourself or feeling "normal"), but can then struggle with entering the "real world" where people are different from you. You're so used to doing something a certain way and having everyone be in agreement about it, there's a bit of a shock encountering the opposite values of someone else.

    Whereas it seems to be the reverse for people (like myself) who don't grow up with their quadra: more friction and misunderstanding at home, a sense of being alien or not seen/accepted, but a smoother transition upon leaving the nest since you automatically expect others will be different from you. I never really assumed other people would think like me or be like me, since nobody in my family was.

  20. #20
    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,351
    Mentioned
    89 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Emily View Post
    My mom's SEI and I see this in her. Is it related to Te PoLR, I wonder, and not wanting to be told what to do?
    It could very well be related to Te-PoLR, and, by definition, to Ti-Mobilizing. It is not uncommon for an SEI to grow up in an environment where they constantly receive verbal and non-verbal messages of being stupid or dumb from other people, especially the female ones. This can happen not only on the level of family or peers, but even to society at large, for what could be the effect on SEIs when they live in a society where Te-types are the cultural standard, sociologically speaking?

    Look at LIEs, types often considered very intelligent, second only to ILIs? If you design an IQ test so it favors the kind of intelligence of researchers, then it no wonder Socials get the short end of the stick. Whereas in real life researchers cannot even properly fry an egg, figuratively speaking of course. Unfortunately, IQ tests do not offer questions on how to fry an egg or make a pasta salad.

    So with your mom it is probably not about not wanting to be told what to do, it's about not wanting to be told that she is stupid. A problem that is often made worse by the peaceful nature of SEIs, for the ones with diminished self-esteem are often not very assertive in setting firm boundaries, they often more easily subjugatingly give in or avoiding such situations by retreating into safe solitude where they can't be hurt, but where their emotional needs aren't met either.
    Last edited by consentingadult; 02-12-2020 at 10:18 AM.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

  21. #21
    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,351
    Mentioned
    89 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    I just don't relate. Problem solved.
    No it's not, you need a hug! A big one!
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

  22. #22
    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    TIM
    SLE
    Posts
    2,769
    Mentioned
    203 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Emily View Post
    Those gammas have a way of worming their way into your heart. What other types have people proposed for you? The short-term "fun" relationships you mention don't usually sound appealing to me, either, at least not on a regular basis. I like those kinds of gathering from time to time, but quickly get worn out if it's not balanced with a more individualized, intense connection.

    You sound heavy on the Ti, is that fair to say? The SLE-Ti I went out with a few times had some of those same conservative behaviors. Kind of Delta-ish in a way. He even said on the second date that he was very frugal, but hastily added he loved shopping.
    Probably everything under the sun but xII types have been proposed for me.

    I’m not really a big fan of subtype theories as they’ve been fleshed out currently. I’m not sure if I have more of a “Ti” lean to me than the “average” SLE (whatever that is like) does.

  23. #23
    thegreenfaerie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Neptune
    TIM
    4 sx
    Posts
    1,171
    Mentioned
    50 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    delta- I am not by any means that I can think of, conservative (I know this doesn't just relate to politically). I guess I probably prefer smaller and more intimate groups though. I'm not too politically charged.
    beta- I'm not sure I care much for hierarchies and I'm not too politically charged or inclined, but I do have a sort of rebellious teenager nature (this has been pointed out more than once) and spirit. I also have a definite wild side. I'm not sure if the latter has anything to do with beta, but people act like deltas are all these super uptight moralists which has me scratching my head.

    I feel a bit weird about the quadras to be honest though I've seen them work really well for some, it seems not so much for others.

  24. #24
    a two horned unicorn renegade COVID 007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    At the korona table
    TIM
    ILE-C-I
    Posts
    5,159
    Mentioned
    227 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    I've read a few times that Alphas are likely to participate in group drug use. The operative word might be "group", and I've just never happened to be in a group where anything harder than weed or alcohol was being passed around, but I'm averse to the idea of most anything that might change me somehow -- I don't even like to take medicine.
    I haven't been drunk myself and times I have consumed alcohol have been accidents.

    So... mostly when I see people consuming alcohol it is because they want to release Fi within a social setting for personal bonding and I'm not into that business at all because I see no need to do it. (INTx problems https://source.wustl.edu/2014/05/peo...ohol-problems/)
    Measuring you right now

    Winning is for losers

  25. #25
    Emily's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    TIM
    IEI-Fe Sx/So 1w?
    Posts
    171
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    It could very well be related to Te-PoLR, and, by definition, to Ti-Mobilizing. It is not uncommon for an SEI to grow up in an environment where they constantly receive verbal and non-verbal messages of being stupid or dumb from other people, especially the female ones. This can happen not only on the level of family or peers, but even to society at large, for what could be the effect on SEIs when they live in a society where Te-types are the cultural standard, sociologically speaking?

    Look at LIEs, types often considered very intelligent, second only to ILIs? If you design an IQ test so it favors the kind of intelligence of researchers, then it no wonder Socials get the short end of the stick. Whereas in real life researchers cannot even properly fry an egg, figuratively speaking of course. Unfortunately, IQ tests do not offer questions on how to fry an egg or make a pasta salad.

    So with your mom it is probably not about not wanting to be told what to do, it's about not wanting to be told that she is stupid. A problem that is often made worse by the peaceful nature of SEIs, for the ones with diminished self-esteem are often not very assertive in setting firm boundaries, they often more easily subjugatingly give in or avoiding such situations by retreating into safe solitude where they can't be hurt, but where their emotional needs aren't met either.
    This is very insightful.

  26. #26
    Emily's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    TIM
    IEI-Fe Sx/So 1w?
    Posts
    171
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bouncingoffclouds View Post
    delta- I am not by any means that I can think of, conservative (I know this doesn't just relate to politically). I guess I probably prefer smaller and more intimate groups though. I'm not too politically charged.
    beta- I'm not sure I care much for hierarchies and I'm not too politically charged or inclined, but I do have a sort of rebellious teenager nature (this has been pointed out more than once) and spirit. I also have a definite wild side. I'm not sure if the latter has anything to do with beta, but people act like deltas are all these super uptight moralists which has me scratching my head.

    I feel a bit weird about the quadras to be honest though I've seen them work really well for some, it seems not so much for others.
    Thanks for sharing. I can understand being somewhat caught between relating to Beta and Delta (if that's what you're saying here). Both quadras have the NFs, after all, and the one thing I relate to more than anything else is being NF temperament. I've doubted everything else, but not that!

    As for moralistic, I've seen Beta NFs be this way, too, not just Deltas. Maybe what @consentingadult is spot on...that the quadras are more about style than content? I don't know....the idea of neatly fitting into a quadra is one of my biggest complaints with socionics. Like you said, it seems to work for some people. Maybe it's the contraflow in me.

  27. #27
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Spiritus Mundi
    TIM
    psyche 4w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    11,290
    Mentioned
    951 Post(s)
    Tagged
    42 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sithis View Post
    The way I don't relate to my type might actually be how I relate to one part of my type more strongly than the other part. I relate to having Ni Ti & Se than Fe. I actually don't know how I'm Fe creative other than not being Te creative and preferring Ti.

    I'm not emotionally provocative or expressive most of the time. as that impedes on my ability to use intuition (Ni) or get things done without any issues (Se). I'm a person who likes to think to myself, then without sharing my insights, act. And uh, Ti is in there somewhere. But Fe? I can't see it. I never participate in any boisterous conversations, at least in the way people want me to... I'm always calm, and my voice never changes much.

    Furthermore, I actually do take care of my body. I do renounce comfort sometimes, if the end in sight has something I want. Taking care of my body though was definitely a gradual learning process for me.
    It is not uncommon for IEI to be a bit more emotionally restrained, even without a subtype. I am sure enneagram plays a part in it. Since Fe is creative it is also situational, on and off, another tool to use. It is used less than base but in conjunction with it often enough so you probably use it more than you think you do. Like any tool it may take practice but theoretically you already have a natural ability there if it is an ego function. I have seen you use it. Quadra values are iffy to me. There is too much crossover and then you have some people claiming things like feeling "love" is a value of their quadra and not another quadra which makes me think people take quadra values way too serious and/or misunderstand them. You could just as easily relate more to your "club" than your "quadra".

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



  28. #28
    thegreenfaerie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Neptune
    TIM
    4 sx
    Posts
    1,171
    Mentioned
    50 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    In agreement with the last 2 posts and believing I fit the NF club more than either the delta or beta quadras. I agree with you @Emily and know I belong to the NF club more than anything else at this point!

  29. #29
    a two horned unicorn renegade COVID 007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    At the korona table
    TIM
    ILE-C-I
    Posts
    5,159
    Mentioned
    227 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    It is not uncommon for IEI to be a bit more emotionally restrained, even without a subtype. I am sure enneagram plays a part in it. Since Fe is creative it is also situational, on and off, another tool to use. It is used less than base but in conjunction with it often enough so you probably use it more than you think you do. Like any tool it may take practice but theoretically you already have a natural ability there if it is an ego function. I have seen you use it. Quadra values are iffy to me. There is too much crossover and then you have some people claiming things like feeling "love" is a value of their quadra and not another quadra which makes me think people take quadra values way too serious and/or misunderstand them. You could just as easily relate more to your "club" than your "quadra".
    I have encountered lots of restrained xEI's. xLI's might be even more worried and hence spill themselves all over the place.
    Measuring you right now

    Winning is for losers

  30. #30
    FreelancePoliceman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Maizistan
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    1,001
    Mentioned
    85 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    It could very well be related to Te-PoLR, and, by definition, to Ti-Mobilizing. It is not uncommon for an SEI to grow up in an environment where they constantly receive verbal and non-verbal messages of being stupid or dumb from other people, especially the female ones. This can happen not only on the level of family or peers, but even to society at large, for what could be the effect on SEIs when they live in a society where Te-types are the cultural standard, sociologically speaking?
    Are you saying that you think it's more common for SEIs to receive these messages than for other types? If so, why do you think this is?

    So with your mom it is probably not about not wanting to be told what to do, it's about not wanting to be told that she is stupid. A problem that is often made worse by the peaceful nature of SEIs, for the ones with diminished self-esteem are often not very assertive in setting firm boundaries, they often more easily subjugatingly give in or avoiding such situations by retreating into safe solitude where they can't be hurt, but where their emotional needs aren't met either.
    I think this is a spot-on description. My SEI girlfriend is very sensitive about not feeling stupid. She can get upset if I ask her to explain something she said, or if I look at her in a "wrong way" after she's said something she's not completely sure of, because she feels like I'm criticizing her or think of her as stupid (I don't). Also, if she's had a bad day, and I make a joke relying on absurdity, often she'll spend a few seconds trying to understand it, hold her head in her hands as if it's hurting, then cry out that I'm making fun of her -- as if the point of the joke were to make her confused, and that I find pleasure in her feeling stupid for not "getting" it.

    I've learned that I have to be very obvious when I'm making a joke to her, and try not to make them as frequently as I might. When I began to learn Socionics I was confused, because it seemed like the style of jokes I tend to make are generally rooted in Ne, and she as an Si base should be attracted to that kind of expression. I was also confused because these kinds of jokes are truly offhand (generally just a sentence in response to something someone else has said) and not anything weird I've thought up to annoy her, and I've never experienced anyone else in my life (including other SEIs) seem remotely upset or annoyed if I made a joke in this manner. But once after she got upset at one of these jokes, she said to me that it felt like she trusted me, and when I tell her something she takes it seriously and thinks it through. When she realizes it's a joke she feels betrayed and stupid for actually thinking through something that wasn't seriously meant.

    I think a lot of it relates to not feeling secure in herself, and trying to get a sense of security in others. It's not just with me; she's quite sensitive to how other people/friends treat her, and tiny actions from people (wanting to get lunch together, ignoring a text for too long) can make or break her day.
    I was a Democratic caucus. Have you ever been to a caucus? No you haven't. You're a lying dog-faced pony soldier.

  31. #31
    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,351
    Mentioned
    89 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Are you saying that you think it's more common for SEIs to receive these messages than for other types? If so, why do you think this is?
    I think I have already answered that question: if a culture (and that co be just as well on a level of small groups such as families as well as complete societies) tends to value certain personality traits not just as more desirable but also thinking these traits are OBJECTIVELY better, than people lacking these qualities get the short end of the stick. To a lesser extent this also applies to the other three Socials, but they have specific advantages over the SEIs that male them less vulnerable.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

  32. #32
    a two horned unicorn renegade COVID 007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    At the korona table
    TIM
    ILE-C-I
    Posts
    5,159
    Mentioned
    227 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    I usually get famously well along with ILI's [given that their autism quotient is relatively low]. Probably true for most contrary pairs but not acknowledged enough.

    LIE's might have too many citrus fruits in their anus while LII's might have too many onions in their eyes.
    Measuring you right now

    Winning is for losers

  33. #33
    enmity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    TIM
    ILI-Ni 5w4 LEVF
    Posts
    106
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I relate too much that it's even suspicious.

  34. #34
    YXPR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    TIM
    INFp / VEFL
    Posts
    174
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Emily View Post
    Your post got me thinking. I'm sure it isn't always true, but it seems like people who grow up with members of their own quadra have better relationships with their family and a more secure sense of identity (i.e. accepting yourself or feeling "normal"), but can then struggle with entering the "real world" where people are different from you. You're so used to doing something a certain way and having everyone be in agreement about it, there's a bit of a shock encountering the opposite values of someone else.
    Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes

    I don't know if it's so much about the "real world" though. Any environment where delta values are prominent is very hard on my psyche.

    For me, the business school I started studying at a few years ago was my first introduction to a delta dominated environment and the people there sucked the life out of me. I became depressed and actually this is when I joined this forum as I was trying to make sense of what was happening.

    Quote Originally Posted by Emily View Post
    Whereas it seems to be the reverse for people (like myself) who don't grow up with their quadra: more friction and misunderstanding at home, a sense of being alien or not seen/accepted, but a smoother transition upon leaving the nest since you automatically expect others will be different from you. I never really assumed other people would think like me or be like me, since nobody in my family was.
    All I know is that people who grew up with parents of the opposite quadra seem to be more submissive towards that particular quadra's values and to simply accept them as the norm. It does make them more adaptable but the downside of that is that they can spend years surrounded by people who limit their potential and make them doubt themselves simply because they have been used to it since childhoood.

  35. #35
    Number 9 large's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Baking bread
    TIM
    ESTp 7w8 Aries Sx/Sp
    Posts
    3,587
    Mentioned
    220 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Emily View Post
    I've been pondering this lately. When I look at Beta quadra I sometimes feel like I was adopted and have alluded to the fact that being a type One (with its emphasis on values and scruples) can look like Fi. I suppose this could mean I'm mistyped, but I kind of don't think so. (My understanding of Fe and Fi could also need work, but that's beside the point....)

    Anyway, are you a pretty classic exemplar of your quadra? Maybe you don't really relate to--or have rejected--a lot of their values by conscious choice, maybe you were raised to value something else, or maybe you're something of a mishmash? I'll try to post more later about my own experience.
    Yep, type 1s are Fi hidden agenda. IEI type 1 doesnt exist.

  36. #36
    Rusal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    TIM
    SEI-Si
    Posts
    68
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Was there anything that helped clear up your confusion?
    Reading not just the descriptions but how the sociotypes behave in a relationship. I find some of the EII characteristics relatable, but I would hardly identify with the way they are described to interact with others. Your daydreams and what takes up most of the time in your mind are also good hints.

    So with your mom it is probably not about not wanting to be told what to do, it's about not wanting to be told that she is stupid. A problem that is often made worse by the peaceful nature of SEIs,
    But Emily did mention that her mother doesn't talk about her past. She could easily embellish a story if she feared looking bad.

    SEIs (perhaps the Si subtype with heightened introversion?) are really just private. I remember when I got my first job it took me a year to tell my mother my boss' name. I wouldn't have realized I was witholding information hadn't she complained about it. This attitude I seem to have with everybody and what I've noticed is that even when I find out an important piece of information...it can take me a while to muster the patience to go through the interrogation session the other party will likely inflict on me. Simply put, 'sharing' is not natural to us (and we don't appreciate other people trying to control us, we may have an impulse to put 'them in their place' to the extent that a conversation spirals out of control so that we can make it clear where they stand. Not if the other person is intelligent enough, but an obvious jealous boyfriend who does not speak in the right tone we won't placate).
    Last edited by Rusal; 02-14-2020 at 03:03 AM.

  37. #37
    Emily's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    TIM
    IEI-Fe Sx/So 1w?
    Posts
    171
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    Yep, type 1s are Fi hidden agenda. IEI type 1 doesnt exist.
    @Number 9 large, how do you know they don't exist?

    To your point, I do know at least two SLI Ones and can easily imagine how an Fi hidden agenda would enforce that personality structure. It seems like it would be common for SLI, maybe less so for ILI, and fairly uncommon for IEI.

    But I also know Ones who are IEE, LSE, another IEI, and LII, and am pretty sure any type can be any enneagram type.

  38. #38
    Number 9 large's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Baking bread
    TIM
    ESTp 7w8 Aries Sx/Sp
    Posts
    3,587
    Mentioned
    220 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Emily View Post
    @Number 9 large, how do you know they don't exist?

    To your point, I do know at least two SLI Ones and can easily imagine how an Fi hidden agenda would enforce that personality structure. It seems like it would be common for SLI, maybe less so for ILI, and fairly uncommon for IEI.

    But I also know Ones who are IEE, LSE, another IEI, and LII, and am pretty sure any type can be any enneagram type.
    Ti

  39. #39
    Emily's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    TIM
    IEI-Fe Sx/So 1w?
    Posts
    171
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by YXPR View Post
    All I know is that people who grew up with parents of the opposite quadra seem to be more submissive towards that particular quadra's values and to simply accept them as the norm. It does make them more adaptable but the downside of that is that they can spend years surrounded by people who limit their potential and make them doubt themselves simply because they have been used to it since childhoood.
    Yeah, I could see that. I'd imagine even the most loving and supportive parents would maybe start to cheer on aspects of you that you don't really care about, while forgetting to support the natural parts of you.

  40. #40
    Emily's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    TIM
    IEI-Fe Sx/So 1w?
    Posts
    171
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    Ti
    Lol. Nice to meet you

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •