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Thread: Thought monitoring

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    Default Thought monitoring

    "Listen carefully, imagine that you are about to hear important information. Observe your mind with the detachment of a journalist. Be receptive and alert. (Pause three minutes)"

    This is from the book I'm reading, and

    Edit: never mind, but I can't delete a thread. Discuss.
    Last edited by ashlesha; 02-05-2020 at 06:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    "Listen carefully, imagine that you are about to hear important information. Observe your mind with the detachment of a journalist. Be receptive and alert. (Pause three minutes)"

    This is from the book I'm reading, and

    Edit: never mind, but I can't delete a thread. Discuss.
    What's the title

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    Socionics is a spook ashlesha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer View Post
    What's the title
    Pni: The Mind Body Healing Program http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2856651-pni

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    Now I want to know what you were going to say

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    Socionics is a spook ashlesha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ouronis View Post
    Now I want to know what you were going to say
    I wondered if anyone used a similar process as part of the self-typing process to see if their thoughts aligned with an element. I tried to expound on that and got frustrated with words.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    I wondered if anyone used a similar process as part of the self-typing process to see if their thoughts aligned with an element. I tried to expound on that and got frustrated with words.
    From what I can tell, to a lot of people this is the only way to see your own type. You shouldn't let your internal narratives get in the way of the straight up info that you're processing, etc.

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    If I were inclined to take this advice seriously, I’d probably be annoyed, more than anything, if I felt I had to listen closely for three minutes to get important information. To not think about anything and “just” observe requires a lot of concentration and effort, and is uncomfortable.
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    I find it pretty hard to listen to myself when there's so much of the world around me. That was actually a big sign in my typing process. Lol.

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    Eh? If I understood this correctly I tend to be in that mode most of the time although with highly variable time intervals.

    I knew it! Rationality is a very serious mental disorder.
    Last edited by COVID 007; 02-06-2020 at 09:08 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by voider View Post
    I find it pretty hard to listen to myself when there's so much of the world around me. That was actually a big sign in my typing process. Lol.
    @ashlesha

    https://www.dazeddigital.com/science...hology-science

    An interesting tidbit is that some folks have an inner dialogue and others do not. Some people's thoughts are like sentences they "hear" or even "see" and some people just have abstract non-verbal thoughts, like pictures or rolling film, whereupon they have to exert effort to verbalize them. According to one study, only about 26% of people experience an inner dialogue.

    I found this to be interesting:

    “I feel like language limits,” says Annabel, a 29-year-old marketing campaign manager who works in London, and who believes she thinks outside of the ‘textual realm’. “If I was getting out of bed in the morning and thinking that I need to get up and get some coffee, I see the picture of the coffee cup.” These icons floating above her head plague her until the tasks they illustrate are complete: “When I've made the coffee and drank it, then it stops. It’s almost like a Sim.”There’s more complexity to this way of thinking, though: “It’s not just the next action. That would be really quiet.” Her head is awash with symbols, icons, and sensations all at once: “I get frustrated when I need to think for specific words for things. If I’m worried about something, I’ll see an exclamation mark pop up in my head, and that’s all the explanation I need.”

    This seems like a very literal and direct way of visual processing, things aren't the same for all non-textual thinkers. For Elena, a PhD in linguistics at the University of Texas, her own inner language is a landscape of visual references that she has to strain to convert into the written or spoken word. It’s a world of associative imagery and metaphor, and is often overwhelmingly visceral – a blend of art, culture, fantasy, and personal experience.
    It sounds like she's describing introverted perception (perhaps iP leads), and I relate to this, to a degree; but I'm always extroverting my thinking, even if I don't voice it, which is why I always have an internal monologue going. And not for nothing, but I think my inner monologue has a mild form of Tourette's > "Move, BITCH" "Dumb." "STFU." 'NOPE." "Fuck outta here." are some of my faves. lol And I don't think in terms of text or words, but I hear them as my own voice talking inside my head. But if I say to myself (internally) that "I'm hungry," I might also visualize whatever it is I want, like a juicy, thick ass steak or something--there are times where I don't immediately have the words, and, instead, I just see symbols and metaphors and all that shit.

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    @Alonzo I sometimes have an internal dialogue, sometimes not. It really depends on what I'm doing. If I want a coffee as described, I see the coffee as an image in my mind or as the experience of drinking coffee, and then just do it. Actually, I might already be doing something before the thought even fully forms in my head ... Which I suppose is analogous with Se and not thinking things through, but really, when I want to do something, for example pick something up, I'm already doing it before I've even consciously registered it as "I am going to pick this up now". Not that others have that sort of internal dialogue, but usually, my decisions are made in my brain before I've even... decided to make a decision? Lol.

    The only times I actually have an internal dialogue, I'm not actually talking to my own self. I'm imagining responding to a post on a forum, or arguing with another person in my head. I need to have a discussion with someone that's not me, for me to flesh out my thoughts into actual words. Even in my thoughts, I need to extrovert them and bounce them off something else. (Like how I'm responding so much now, after writing a one-liner, because I have a prompt now, and beforehand the prompt was somewhat lacking.) When making an actual important decision, I feel like something is missing if I just try to decide in my head, and I need to write it down or talk to someone in order to actually be able to see it in the world and make sense of it as something that has an actual impact as opposed to the amorphous nonexistence of thoughts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by voider View Post
    @Alonzo I sometimes have an internal dialogue, sometimes not. It really depends on what I'm doing. If I want a coffee as described, I see the coffee as an image in my mind or as the experience of drinking coffee, and then just do it. Actually, I might already be doing something before the thought even fully forms in my head ... Which I suppose is analogous with Se and not thinking things through, but really, when I want to do something, for example pick something up, I'm already doing it before I've even consciously registered it as "I am going to pick this up now". Not that others have that sort of internal dialogue, but usually, my decisions are made in my brain before I've even... decided to make a decision? Lol.
    lol That's amazing, and to a lesser degree, I can relate. Because Se is an unconscious function for me, it just happens/manifests on its own, and it can definitely come off rather impulsive. Like when I've been in arguments where there is a great amount of physical distance between myself and someone else, and in a flash, my nose is almost touching theirs, without ever realizing I made the decision to get in their face. lol It's like I just acted without thinking, as if I had been possessed by some force. It BLOWS. MY. MIND that there are folks who can consciously live in that kind of active/willful space, most of the time. There is something so magnificent to me about being fully aware of the power one possesses to simply ACT.

    Quote Originally Posted by voider View Post
    The only times I actually have an internal dialogue, I'm not actually talking to my own self. I'm imagining responding to a post on a forum, or arguing with another person in my head. I need to have a discussion with someone that's not me, for me to flesh out my thoughts into actual words. Even in my thoughts, I need to extrovert them and bounce them off something else. (Like how I'm responding so much now, after writing a one-liner, because I have a prompt now, and beforehand the prompt was somewhat lacking.) When making an actual important decision, I feel like something is missing if I just try to decide in my head, and I need to write it down or talk to someone in order to actually be able to see it in the world and make sense of it as something that has an actual impact as opposed to the amorphous nonexistence of thoughts.
    YES, well said. Most of my internal dialogue is directed outwardly, at people/places/things outside of myself, though I will occasionally address myself > "why did you do that stupid shit?" lol But it's still from a place of extroverting a thought, just towards myself. The desire to get the words/thoughts "out" in order to make sense of them is probably why extroverted thinking is often associated with list making, rules, regulations, etc....

    Tangentially, what happens to you when your Fi is powerfully hit/engaged? I think my inner dialogue shuts down temporarily, like it's paralyzed by some feeling (whether mild to wild, sad to mad) and can't really process anything else at the moment.

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    @Alonzo this actually came up recently with (an ese?) a woman who said she recently learned and was surprised that not everyone is talking to themselves in their head all the time. I told her I was one of those people and when IP boyfriend asked what it was instead, I was like, "uh.. feeling-things? Hard to explain." Lol. I have language occasionally, but not usually.

    Ftr when I tried this exercise, my mind went into language mode, maybe because that provides more tangible data for a detached "journalist" to observe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alonzo View Post
    ... in a flash, my nose is almost touching theirs, without ever realizing I made the decision to get in their face.


    I've done this too. The one time I can vividly remember was a conscious decision to trap the person I was arguing with because he was evading my questions and refusing to explain himself, which I was not having. It worked, I looked like an asshole, but I got what I wanted in the end, and the argument was solved, lol.

    Tangentially, what happens to you when your Fi is powerfully hit/engaged? I think my inner dialogue shuts down temporarily, like it's paralyzed by some feeling (whether mild to wild, sad to mad) and can't really process anything else at the moment.
    It's more like a yoyo, or an elastic band for me. The further someone pushes, the further it will spring back, but because it's elastic it won't break, and it's prone to constant fluidity and susceptible to change. It's the closest I can come to explaining creative Fi. Although you might get slapped in the face with it if you push too hard, there's also the chance that you might change my mind. It's very situational.

    With regards to what happens with my inner dialogue... Well, in discussions, there's never any inner dialogue, there's just outer dialogue. If someone ends up giving a very good argument and I can't come up with a counterargument, you'll see me trying to paraphrase it in order to understand it better and how it fits within my own understanding.

    But in some situations, when I'm just really fucking mad or disgusted with someone, or extremely giddy, yeah, the inner dialogue just completely shuts down, and is replaced with that feeling only. I don't think paralyzed is the right word for me... more like hyperfocused? It's not that I cannot process anything else in the moment, it's that I don't want to. For example, someone gets me really mad, and in my head I'm actively choosing to disregard what I would normally consider (am I yelling at them, will this hurt them, will this hurt our relationship) because I want to express that feeling of anger more than I care about upholding some Fi standard I've set for myself. I'm actively choosing not to give merit to any other feeling or rule for behavior I usually abide by other than what is most predominant for me at the moment. Same goes for really happy. I won't stop myself from being giddy just because someone wants to be a downer (IRL this doesn't come across as assholeish as it sounds, please trust me, I know to rein it in when someone's feeling really bad about important things).

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    Quote Originally Posted by voider View Post
    But in some situations, when I'm just really fucking mad or disgusted with someone, or extremely giddy, yeah, the inner dialogue just completely shuts down, and is replaced with that feeling only. I don't think paralyzed is the right word for me... more like hyperfocused? It's not that I cannot process anything else in the moment, it's that I don't want to. For example, someone gets me really mad, and in my head I'm actively choosing to disregard what I would normally consider (am I yelling at them, will this hurt them, will this hurt our relationship) because I want to express that feeling of anger more than I care about upholding some Fi standard I've set for myself. I'm actively choosing not to give merit to any other feeling or rule for behavior I usually abide by other than what is most predominant for me at the moment. Same goes for really happy. I won't stop myself from being giddy just because someone wants to be a downer (IRL this doesn't come across as assholeish as it sounds, please trust me, I know to rein it in when someone's feeling really bad about important things).
    YES. Unsurprisingly, you articulated it better than I could. I thought paralyzed or "stuck" because, in those instances, it's like I can't do anything else but hyper focus on whatever that feeling is. And being hyper focused on any emotion is...on one hand, seductively intoxicating, but on the other, weird and discombobulating for me, which is probably why I think to use words that imply a certain dread. lol Talking about this reaffirms to me why it's cognitively preferable for logical types to deprioritize our emotional processing, because it's one of the few areas in my life where I might potentially feel like a punk ass bitch (because I can't handle it). lol It's the hyper focusing on bad feelings, especially, that feels like being imprisoned inside your own personal hell. The few times in my life where I've been there, it became apparent to me how some folks don't make it out alive because they can't bear the intensity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alonzo View Post
    @ashlesha

    https://www.dazeddigital.com/science...hology-science

    An interesting tidbit is that some folks have an inner dialogue and others do not. Some people's thoughts are like sentences they "hear" or even "see" and some people just have abstract non-verbal thoughts, like pictures or rolling film, whereupon they have to exert effort to verbalize them. According to one study, only about 26% of people experience an inner dialogue.

    I found this to be interesting:

    It sounds like she's describing introverted perception (perhaps iP leads), and I relate to this, to a degree; but I'm always extroverting my thinking, even if I don't voice it, which is why I always have an internal monologue going. And not for nothing, but I think my inner monologue has a mild form of Tourette's > "Move, BITCH" "Dumb." "STFU." 'NOPE." "Fuck outta here." are some of my faves. lol And I don't think in terms of text or words, but I hear them as my own voice talking inside my head. But if I say to myself (internally) that "I'm hungry," I might also visualize whatever it is I want, like a juicy, thick ass steak or something--there are times where I don't immediately have the words, and, instead, I just see symbols and metaphors and all that shit.
    Speech is always secondary to action/sensation/visualization for me. I'm mostly verbalizing to communicate to either myself or others. Take something like software programming, I don't really code in words, I code in some sort of metavisual language than translate it to C/C# syntax, I don't really have a syntax based way of thinking, it's more layers of stuff on other layers of stuff, it feels more like folding fabric or stitching diagrams than words.

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    You don't have to have an internal dialogue to know what you're thinking.

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    i have been mostly ''seeing'' situations in my mind's eye (past events the way i thought they happened or random scenarios) and felt emotions such as fear or contentment. Thought monitoring opened a door to extracting underlying beliefs and questioning their validity, which I had never done before and still don't quite do in a solid way. I've been watching videos of people doing it for the most part. Feel free to take this out of context.
    Last edited by Kalinoche the Child; 02-06-2020 at 07:29 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    "Listen carefully, imagine that you are about to hear important information. Observe your mind with the detachment of a journalist. Be receptive and alert. (Pause three minutes)"

    This is from the book I'm reading, and

    Edit: never mind, but I can't delete a thread. Discuss.
    Open monitoring meditation?

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    There is an article about temperaments. Ep are supposed to have the most back and forth self monitoring.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    Open monitoring meditation?
    What is that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heretic 007 View Post
    There is an article about temperaments. Ep are supposed to have the most back and forth self monitoring.
    What is that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    What is that?



    What is that?

    It is like constantly hammering your head against the metaphysical brick wall so nothing serious.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    What is that?



    What is that?
    http://www.mindbodyvortex.com/open-m...ion-technique/

    Open monitoring and focused attention are two categories of meditation created by scientists who were trying to see if underlying patterns were shared among meditation techniques. It's thought that these are "the" two basic types of meditation.

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    Interesting, thanks! The way the book put it forth (by a dr studying "pni," and operating within that sphere) is that the 2 uses of mind are 1) activity, running loose and 2) still mindfulness. The OP is structured as a way to gain familiarity with the former.

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    A thought without belief, has no power. But a thought with belief, can start a war.

    Belief is the important thing. Not everything that arises in the mind's eye needs to be accepted, needs to be pursued. You can ignore. This was the great mastery of the sages. They started to ignore. Not the technique of ignoring. Simply by recognizing I am the be-ing-ness, I am the awareness. Everything else is a tourist. Every thought, every emotion is only a tourist. I am not a hotel for these thoughts. Let them come and go. And like this nothing can land.

    Nothing could leave a footprint in the memory. Everything was passing. Naturally this is so. From when you were a child it has been so. Even now it is so. But we dream and cultivated a certain type of behaviour and a relationship out of ignorance to certain types of thoughts and develop a kind of mind set. A now we are living in a kind of game, your mindset.

    Its through understanding, you're understanding your correct position. You are the awareness itself.
    Last edited by timber; 02-09-2020 at 02:32 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    I wondered if anyone used a similar process as part of the self-typing process to see if their thoughts aligned with an element. I tried to expound on that and got frustrated with words.
    I researched this a bit and tried it. I’m actually really glad you posted this because it made me realize how much I let negative thoughts in. And it made me realize my anxiety makes my type really unclear to me, because I think any type can have anxiety. This is why it’s easier for me asking others their opinion from my behavior. Idk! Just a thought. I’ll definitely be thinking about it some more. But, yes, you posting this made me have a better day and helped me turn some things around. So thank you. lol
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