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Thread: Perfectionism in EIIs and IEEs

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    Default Perfectionism in EIIs and IEEs

    In the past week I worked, for the very first time, with an EII cook. Guess there are not many EII professional cooks. This cook normally works alone, but as he has problems with a knee, I will be replacing him for a little while.

    The guy has told me a lot about himself, and most of what he told me is perfectly in line with what EIIs are supposed to be. He told me, among other things, that until recently he went overboard with the dishes he presented to the guests (in a company restaurant). In that sense he was very perfectionistic. He also sticks to safety and hygiene regulations to the very strict letter, in the seven years that I have been doing this kind of work I have not met anyone being so strict. He also expects this level of perfection from me, although he doesn't seem to have the assertiveness required to force people to it. There is also no need for it in my personal case.

    It got me thinking about differences in perfectionism and productiveness between IEEs and EIIs. Seems to me that perfectionism is in EIIs is more about the level of quality (Te suggestive + Si mobilizing), where perfectionism in IEEs is more about level of quantity (Si suggestive + Te mobilizing). In that sense their respective duals steer both types away from overexerting themselves.

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    Rebelondeck's Avatar
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    EII perfectionism seems to be a similar process to that of LIIs; both tend to want the things for which they are responsible to be exactly as they envision (plan) it. They don't seem to care that others behave imperfectly unless it impacts on their personal visions. They desire the autonomy to produce exactly what they think should be done as if it's a reflection of their own self-image; hence, working alone fits. Now IEEs seem to be continually seeking that perfect something but don't seem to be bothered when they're not finding it; it's all about that perfect journey. Quantity seems more about having infinite options to experiment with than it's about producing that perfect something; for them, it's all about freedom and the more they have, the more perfect for them and the bigger the ego seems to grow. IEEs tend to be so much more comfortable with other fingers in the pot unless those others block their way to the perfect experience........

    a.k.a. I/O

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    I work with an EII male engineer. He is incredibly perfectionistic, and at the same time, wants constant Te input. I have shown him working designs of things we have done in the past. Most of these things were designed by ILI’s or LIE’s or LSE’s, so they work perfectly and look like crap.

    He takes the essential design idea and basically repeats it, with lots and lots and lots of questions, and turns it into something that both works correctly and is beautiful. I have never seen metal twisted into such beautiful shapes.

    My only complaint is that he needs frequent and regular Te hand-holding, and he takes forever to complete a design. Like, 4X longer than anyone else. If the contracts we work on weren’t insanely profitable, the company would not be able to afford him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    .......he needs frequent and regular Te hand-holding, and he takes forever to complete a design........
    I can see EIIs getting lots of opinions to take away to study but hand holding seems very atypical. Now, EIIs taking forever in the eyes of an LIE is certainly typical.......

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    I can see EIIs getting lots of opinions to take away to study but hand holding seems very atypical. Now, EIIs taking forever in the eyes of an LIE is certainly typical.......

    a.k.a. I/O
    God, he is slow. On the other hand, I wish he could redesign every one of our projects to make them look beautiful.

    You are right. I don't need to stand next to him and hold his hand. But he will, at regular intervals, corral me in my office or in the hall and will show me what he's done and will subtly ask for feedback or guidance, and these sessions almost never last more than a few minutes.

    In some ways, he reminds me of my son when he was little. My son would spend most of his time playing, off by himself, but every once in a while, briefly and regularly, would return to me to check to make sure that I was still there.


    Let's say that a project has a delivery date in six months. Working backwards, that is one month to assemble and debug and fix anything that is majorly broken. Two and and a half months to have all components fabricated. One month to make and check drawings. One month for all modeling and design to be completed, and two weeks to lay out the requirements and choose the path most likely to succeed, with perhaps some very quick and dirty sanity checks thrown in there. (Modeling and design refinement continues while the components are out for fab, with phone calls and drawing revs to the suppliers to make any required course corrections.*)
    He will take six and a half months to do a design. It will be beautiful, and everyone will have left the building by then.


    *Some projects don't take well to course corrections, and so everything has to be right before it is sent out for fab. In those cases, with the same deadlines, more time is spent in modeling and meetings to ensure that everyone agrees that the design will meet specifications. This additional time comes out of fabrication (and maybe debug), but a phone call to the suppliers guarantees them a starting date and they can schedule the work accordingly, so your project isn't sitting in their inbox while they wrap up other work.

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    I think quality over quantity might be a general introversion over extroversion thing.

    I know an EII pro chef hobbyist. He’s quite quiet and weird and yeah his food is great and also very perfectionistic.

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    Dunno if delta quadra club but maybe it is especially process rational characteristics. Process types might get caught up in perfecting their stuff regarding their own vision (and maybe giving up leaving things in worse condition). it is like result is never good enough - let's tear it apart.
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    Ime comparing working with both as SLI, IEEs are more perfectionistic and picky than EIIs. Its not like IEE have high standards, is that they rise the standard constantly. "I said it was ok yesterday, but you could just do it better now!" Its also part of their program according Strat. EIIs can be critical, but they are rational (they are going to stick to procedures etc), so its in a different level than IEE (who's not going to stick to it, but rather make their own, creating them spontaneously and changing them in the same spirit). In that sense, EII is going to end what they start and keep doing things the same and keep going and going, unlike IEE, who can drop things because their mood swings or the constant attention to potentiality. Due that, EIIs can take more time to do things, certainly. Also IEE don't enjoy too much others telling them what to do or how to do things, and have hard time coping with strict and limiting rules. So could it be that's why you could be experiencing EII as being perfectionistic?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    Ime comparing working with both as SLI, IEEs are more perfectionistic and picky than EIIs. Its not like IEE have high standards, is that they rise the standard constantly. "I said it was ok yesterday, but you could just do it better now!" Its also part of their program according Strat. EIIs can be critical, but they are rational (they are going to stick to procedures etc), so its in a different level than IEE (who's not going to stick to it, but rather make their own, creating them spontaneously and changing them in the same spirit). In that sense, EII is going to end what they start and keep doing things the same and keep going and going, unlike IEE, who can drop things because their mood swings or the constant attention to potentiality. Due that, EIIs can take more time to do things, certainly. Also IEE don't enjoy too much others telling them what to do or how to do things, and have hard time coping with strict and limiting rules. So could it be that's why you could be experiencing EII as being perfectionistic?
    Actually, I think all types can be perfectionistic, but always in a different sense. In the particular example I gave about the other chef, it is not so much that I consider him a perfectionist, but that he embodies the typical perfectionism of an EII: an inordinate amount to detail, very much in the way Adam Strange described. Which, as this chef described himself, took an enormous amount of effort while working his butt off. He's making it difficult for himself by raising the bar high, and he himself realizes that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Actually, I think all types can be perfectionistic, but always in a different sense. In the particular example I gave about the other chef, it is not so much that I consider him a perfectionist, but that he embodies the typical perfectionism of an EII: an inordinate amount to detail, very much in the way Adam Strange described. Which, as this chef described himself, took an enormous amount of effort while working his butt off. He's making it difficult for himself by raising the bar high, and he himself realizes that.
    ok I get it.

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    Oh dude, where do I start? I've been working on my EP lately and the only reason it takes so long is because i'm a perfectionist to the point of being a pain in the ass to my producer. Recording shit differently and trying it all, lmao.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Something View Post
    Oh dude, where do I start? I've been working on my EP lately and the only reason it takes so long is because i'm a perfectionist to the point of being a pain in the ass to my producer. Recording shit differently and trying it all, lmao.
    And that's what happens when an Ep makes an EP, lol ok I'll leave.

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    As far as perfectionism and quality/quantity, I am a perfectionist, and it's because of quality, it's pretty much what @Rebelondeck said.
    The thing being done must fit exactly the vision in mind, and an obsessive amount of time is put into trying to match the vision in your head, and for EII I think they judge whether it matches with emotions, like how they feel about what they are making has to match how they feel about what they see in their mind. Like I know when I draw something, I keep adjusting and adjusting until I get the feeling like "yes!" that's exactly how it feels in my imagination. Until that confirmation is gotten I think you can go on forever until your exhausted and are just done all together. Being a perfectionist though is cathartic for me, I enjoy very few things as much as I enjoy adjusting something for perfection.

    here is a good example of how it looks, I feel like at least.

    I think this guy is EII, not 100% sure but anyway, he's feeling out the lyrics he wants for a song, and when he finally gets the perfect lyrics, he gets all giddy about it. All I see is myself when I'm drawing. I do the same crap even down the the hehe and claps. That's the "yes!" moment.

    skip to the The bones in my closet part at 8:20.

    Last edited by Lord Pixel; 02-03-2020 at 01:32 AM.

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    No, please, that was perfect, stay.

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