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Thread: Wuhan Virus

  1. #601
    The Iniquitous inumbra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timber View Post
    ADE is the true killer here. Open up your thought processing, there are reasons leaders chose their words, when they say, when the WHO says, "this has not even begun yet", people need to listen and question what does that really mean, for clearly leaders have collectivelly decided not to let their populations panic.

    Molecular mechanism for anti-body dependent enhancement of coronavirus entry
    Published Dec 11, 2019
    surprise, surprise, coauthored by our favourite coronavirus jedi master, Prof Zhengli Shi, chief virologist of the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Explaining the exact same mechanisms observed in our favourite coronavirus.
    Only weeks before the pandemic becomes public knowledge in China and elsewhere. .....

    You can't make this shit up. Follow the evidence, this is what a murder investigation does. Its overwhelming how obvious this all plays out.
    https://archive.is/7FTuB
    https://jvi.asm.org/content/94/5/e02015-19 That one is on the internet (it wasn't scrubbed). As for ADE that is apparently a phenomenon in many viruses as the article mentions.

    I don't rule out that China may be responsible (unnatural origins) however censorship about the virus (like for instance that Plandemic video that was circulating) can be explained by trying to limit the spread of misinformation. With so many conspiracy theories it remains they can't all be true (they contradict one another) which is to say the spread of misinformation is real. I can see these internet companies being motivated to halt the spread of misinformation if for no other reason than the pressure they will receive if they don't. It's basically whether there is something someone is trying to cover up or not, the internet companies were going to do this. The topic of responsibility these companies bear for the spread of misinformation has been a recurring one for years. The trend is they are starting to control information on their platforms more and more.

    As for wanting to prevent panic, in what crisis scenario would world leaders NOT want to prevent panic?

    Anyway, China has hid information, that is true. They delayed sharing with the world this was happening. US intelligence suspected something was up in November and there's the possibility it started even earlier than that, though that's not necessarily to say the Chinese authorities would have been aware of it at first. It was killing in the US before the US realized it too. So the one thing I can agree with is that China lied and as they have a track record of doing this, what they say cannot necessarily be trusted. And it's true they've accidentally leaked viruses before. However, given how many countries wanted an investigation into the origins of the virus, it seems only China knows (if there is something to know). Other countries are looking for information because they don't have it. Could WHO know something? Why would China share with them if there was something?

  2. #602

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    I will be the one who judges what I am reading is misinformation, or not. Not big Daddy tech company.

    It's called critical thinking and lots of human beings practise it. Stop outsourcing your thinking to authorities and gatekeepers of information. I think humanity tried that once, didn't work out during the middle ages and the Catholic priesthoods and it's not going to work today.

    Autistic fact checkers can go to hell. I don't need fact checking baby sitters. Doing so undermines free speech which you so vehemently have professed to value.

    You want curated information, wind back the clock to preinternet era. Then you can get your facts from newspapers, published peer reviewed articles, radio and television reporting.

    Peer reviews are a pathetic joke nowadays.

    The editor of the distinguished Lancet journal has recently gone on record to say medical peer reviews are not athoritatative enough these days. Integrity is in ever degreasing short supply.

    I frequently work with forestry Science punks. A small handful are brilliant, one in particular, the rest are geeky dogmatists with minimal creative thought ability.

  3. #603
    The Iniquitous inumbra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timber View Post
    I will be the one who judges what I am reading is misinformation, or not. Not big Daddy tech company.

    It's called critical thinking and lots of human beings practise it. Stop outsourcing your thinking to authorities and gatekeepers of information. I think humanity tried that once, didn't work out during the middle ages and the Catholic priesthoods and it's not going to work today.
    No I agree with you on this. I find it concerning. I can understand why they do it because from their pov misinfo circulating on their platforms that leads to people doing destructive things due to being misinformed, is something they will feel responsible for. But the problem is that this means they're controlling the flow of information. I can imagine lots of dystopian scenarios where basically they control our entire realities especially as increasingly we live virtually.

    I wouldn't call myself vehement about free speech/expression. If I were vehement then I might not be so afraid.

    I do care about fact checking, but fact checking can happen without undermining the flow of information. They don't have to be mutually exclusive.

    The main point of disagreement is that there is a wizard behind the curtain. You seem to think there is. I am saying this could all play out exactly the same way with no wizard (so then why is there a wizard). The only one I see with a motive is China, but I actually would see it as more likely they released a virus by accident than on purpose. This is a less insidious motive as it's scrambling to cover up a mistake (less insidious than, say, engineering it on purpose).
    Last edited by inumbra; 07-24-2020 at 04:43 AM.

  4. #604

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    It started spreading way back in last August.Satelite photos of a over full parking lots in Wuhan hospitals, and traffic control coordinating off the parameter around the different Wuhan Virology centers.The Chinese state media questioning if the US military brought it during the military games in September. Viral particles found across the world from before Dec. Circumstantial coincidences such as the two Doctors arrested and walked out in handcuffs last August, for espionage and illegally smuggling viruses they stole from Winnipeg S4 laboratory. The Chinese couple invented the ebola vaccine and awarded the order of Canada, what force could have possessed them to throw away their careers? CCCP pressure? The RCMP have never released a statement and MSM has said it's a done deal the public should not question. Lol, again, this is all real you can't make this shit up.

  5. #605
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    Quote Originally Posted by timber View Post
    It started spreading way back in last August.Satelite photos of a over full parking lots in Wuhan hospitals, and traffic control coordinating off the parameter around the different Wuhan Virology centers.
    I'd add the word possibly to this. And yes at the time there were increased searches on the internet in the area for cough and diarrhea. I would probably prefer more studies on this, but it looks quite suspicious I would agree.

    The Chinese state media questioning if the US military brought it during the military games in September.
    Was that after the US started suggesting they leaked it from their lab? China frequently slanders those who criticize or make damning claims about them. IIRC US went sour on China first. Trump stopped praising Xi Jinping and the US started using China as a scapegoat for its own bad handling of the virus. The relationship has rapidly deteriorated since.

    Viral particles found across the world from before Dec.
    Not sure what this means, but given US intel we know the outbreak was happening at least as early as November in Wuhan. Without any travel restrictions it could go anywhere. And since it seems it might have started even earlier, then there was plenty of time for it to travel.

    There was also this from Oxford, suggesting it didn't originate in Wuhan and had been circulating much longer before mutating into a more contagious variety. This predicts origin as far back as Sept. which is of course closer to August. (there's not that many samples being used though for this... small numbers like 23 and 9)

    Circumstantial coincidences such as the two Doctors arrested and walked out in handcuffs last August, for espionage and illegally smuggling viruses they stole from Winnipeg S4 laboratory. The Chinese couple invented the ebola vaccine and awarded the order of Canada, what force could have possessed them to throw away their careers? CCCP pressure? The RCMP have never released a statement and MSM has said it's a done deal the public should not question. Lol, again, this is all real you can't make this shit up.
    https://www.factcheck.org/2020/01/co...y-from-canada/ ?

    I am not sure what origin you are arguing for at this point.

    Sometimes with coronavirus theories I feel like I'm watching this again:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRXvOgn8cOw
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7ybAt3vJNI
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDVa40ZkzPo

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLxJRPOx4V4
    Last edited by inumbra; 07-24-2020 at 06:13 AM.

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    I've never even watched the Plandemic. I don't need to expose my mind to useless garbage.

    The only truth that is real was Zhengli Shi's gain of function GMO. The US State Department had warned with cables three years ago that a virus occupational accident was just waiting to happen out of the Wuhan lab, further, that gain of function research was to dangerous to do and funding pulled through NIH. Then an actual accident happens from this city and the best people can come up with is grand conspiracy theory. Its an eye opener to me just how stupid the average person must actually be. The answer is staring people right in the face and they choose the schizoid fantasy.

    Several Governments and private corporations were funding Shi's work. Lots of people are implicated.

    God I seriously hate society and this only furthers serve to validate my choice to pull away from it completely. You all deserve each other.

  7. #607
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    I don't understand. I can believe they accidentally screwed up (although I'm skeptical of info sources that aren't coming from the horse's mouth and are instead sitting on someone's blog saying there were horses and this is what came out of their mouths). I don't have faith in communist regimes that are kind of struggling to grow. The first blog post you linked suggested it was accidentally leaked (akin to Chernobyl - a situation in which a Communist regime deliberately built flawed reactors to save money and then of course the flaw ended up leading to disaster). I can totally believe they could accidentally cause this somehow (but not as a knee jerk reaction because it's too easy given that from an outside viewpoint there is every reason to jump to ultimate suspicion of China - it reflects a bias and an easy conclusion). I am less likely to think they did it on purpose because I don't believe it's helped them. It hit them too, now everyone is against them, countries are pulling businesses out which will affect their economy and future prospects... Really it seems like all bad news for China that may actually serve to cut off their tentacles that have been subtly reaching into all the countries they have relationships with, so I question a deliberate motive. When investigating a crime, you need to find motive.

    I don't know what you're arguing the answer is... Was it that China deliberately did this and used their associates in Canada to design this virus over there and then ship it overseas, was it that China deliberately generated it in house, was it that every nation got together and said they will arrange a pandemic by infecting a region of China (I can't see China being in on that plan because it sucks for them)? Is it because the EU and US and Canada are working on phase 2 of human control in which they realize if all the humans are trapped in their own hovels all the time, we can massively reduce our carbon footprint (oh they don't care about that), we can start getting used to being more docile creatures who wait for our computer screens to say jump, like I don't know what the motive of the wizards is. I don't know how the wizards have so thoroughly infiltrated every research team on Earth to make sure they're all saying "it didn't start in a lab, it's natural!" I don't know why I should believe that and that it's more legit than say the conspiracy arguments against climate change based on that tiny handful of oil and gas funded scientists who disagree with the scientific consensus on climate change.

    I also feel like you're trying to push me into role of thinking all is great in society simply because I cannot see the deliberate chain of events in a way in which there is a motive that matches the evidence, and because I want proof. Proof is not conjecture. It must be rigorously established. It must be the elimination of all alternatives.

    I guess if I were to choose a theory it would be that the US wanted to break China's influence in much of the democratic world, deliberately engineered the pandemic in their country so they could later blame them for it, leading to massive cutting of ties between China and democratic nations (cut the tentacles), and building of tensions towards war because once China can't gain economically they will turn to military gain (which is what they are doing now). The war will boost the US economy in the end (it seems wars always do that), and the US can reestablish its fading dominance in the image of Trump we trust. There. I don't really believe that though.

    Even it doesn't work because China is trapping other countries in debt and bonding those countries to them--democracies are falling to them. Cut off the tentacles and they shoot out new ones. They seem to be doing this more and more since they are losing economic power.

    I can however believe that Trump admin seized upon a low risk opportunity--given how public opinion in the US is not highly favorable towards China and there probably is a low level of fear (or high level of suppressed background fear) in the consciousness of people that China will start controlling more and more of our industry and government and start censoring us the way they censor their own (as has already begun). The fact that it started in China and China lied already has much of the world suspicious. It's a great way for the US to play hero against a widely agreed upon villain.

    I guess my problem with conspiracy theories is they begin with fear. So if I start concocting one it centers on my fears. If it centers on my fears I am going to question it hard because I know I live in my own version of reality, that the world as I understand it isn't the world but the world in my mind that I created. When I'm paranoid it generally means I need to go back to the doctor. I've come up with some great paranoia about how others have it in for me when I'm not medicated. I need a ground. A tether. Something outside of me, otherwise I'm floating in something that has nothing to do with what's real. This leads me to have high proof standards. The posted examples of 7's theories seem like E6 run amok, albeit cp6 whereas my 6 is the phobic one.
    Last edited by inumbra; 07-24-2020 at 06:13 PM.

  8. #608
    xerxe xerxe's Avatar
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    People are starting to call it the Trump Virus.

  9. #609
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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    People are starting to call it the Trump Virus.
    That's an insult to the virus.

  10. #610

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    Slow down girl, I will come back to this when I'm back in town on my laptop. Right now I'm 65 km up a MTN range and am so lazy for typing big thoughts off my phone.

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    Can we all stop the fucking charade now "droplets transfer covid, it's not airborne, let's stay six feet away in pretend boundaries as virus stops at 6 feet".

    Now a team of virologists and aerosol scientists has produced exactly that: confirmation of infectious virus in the air.

    “This is what people have been clamoring for,” said Linsey Marr, an expert in airborne spread of viruses who was not involved in the work. “It’s unambiguous evidence that there is infectious virus in aerosols.”

    A research team at the University of Florida succeeded in isolating live virus from aerosols collected at a distance of seven to 16 feet from patients hospitalized with Covid-19 — farther than the six feet recommended in social distancing guidelines."

  13. #613
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    I thought the distinction was always a bit arbitrary and took it to mean that the closer one is to an infected person the more likely they are to be exposed (which is just I mean true in general), so stay as far away as possible especially out of the close proximity range (arbitrarily defined by 6 ft radius). The intricacies about if it's "droplets" or not didn't matter to me since it's all small "stuff" in the air. It's details to quibble over from my pov. But it ends up becoming a standard, for instance in planning out space in areas. But 6 ft away never meant one isn't going to be exposed. At that distance they might be exposed to less of it though, and I would think a lower viral load to begin with would make it easier for the immune system to get rid of it.

    According to this, 6 ft is the average distance for droplet travel from sneezes or coughs, so that's why that number. And it's true you'll get exposed to a lot more of it if an infected person coughs right in your face regardless of how airborne it is.

    It's like isn't it all kind of droplets? https://first10em.com/aerosols-dropl...rborne-spread/ It's just when they're really small droplets then they are aerosols? I'd rather just think of it as that around any infected person, is a "cloud of infection" and it can be carried farther from them in the air, and it moves as they move though they leave the trail behind them, and really it's everywhere, so good luck. If you only breathe in a little of it, maybe it will never get anywhere (it could get trapped in the nasal passage for instance), or it could be so tiny the immune system just kills it fast if it actually gains entry. But the more you breathe in, the more it has a good shot of gaining the upper hand of course.

    I imagine if barely any of the population has it the infected clouds will be few and far between throughout the overall geographic area, but in an outbreak area like NYC where it was estimated 1/4 of the population caught it, there would be massive "infection clouds" one could encounter, before they all started trying to stay inside. Then the chances of getting it are much higher, the initial viral load will be higher, the sickness will be more difficult to fight off, the death rate will go up, etc.

    And in any building it can circulate around the air system, as the media was obsessed with for a while: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/h...staurants.html
    Last edited by inumbra; 08-12-2020 at 09:57 PM.

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