When are you "ready" for your dual?

[Aria]

Comment below with your type and what you think will make you and your dual "ready" for each other. Or do you think this idea of "ready" is nonsense because it's duality and you don't have to be?

In other words, when can this relationship be the most mutually beneficial without descending into the hell that Stratiyevskaya describes between duals who (in my opinion) seem severely lacking in self-awareness or even basic human decency.

Musing how--at earlier times in my life--an SLE would have either scared or repelled me and I would have just ignored them. Now I've noticed that if I actually speak my mind to them it seems to change something in them, which was surprising to discover. (They actually think about the feedback I give! They actually LIKE my inclination to play psychologist and dig into their emotions. Mind-blowing...)

"Ready" for the IEI:
-A strong sense of self. This is essential but seems to take IEIs time to develop, unlike Fi doms.
-Not being swayed from their vision. If the SLE doesn't line up with the vision, it's not the right SLE.
-Personal boundaries that are enforced without apology. This seems to be one of the only ways to create real respect.
-A life outside the relationship (probably a good idea for all the types): healthy routines, friendships, therapy, exercise.
-The ability to be very, very direct. Again, this takes time to develop for an IEI. The Strat article describes the IEI (in what I would call an "unconscious" state) as someone who has to use emotional manipulation to get what they want from the SLE, but I think this is what fuels the unhealthy dynamic. Learning to be direct is the best.

Still pondering what makes an SLE the most ready for the IEI....

[End]

@Emily From what I've read, Duality isn't a thing you "prepare" for. It just "happens" if that makes any kind of sense. It ain't like you plan to go to the bar at the 29th of X month because stats say that's when your "dual" tends to slum it up on the cheap bar scene when they're most "vulnerable" towards forming a relationship with their "dual" if ya know what I mean.

I know it's a bit rich coming from a Theist like me but "have faith" is my recommendation. Once you have well and truly "gotten your shit together" you will find yourself swarmed with enticing romantic prospects. If you have some modicum of wisdom you will find a mate worthy of you that will be equally thankful that they found someone worthy of themselves .

[Rebelondeck]

After one has had several failed relationships and libido has slipped to second place.....

a.k.a. I/O

[consentingadult]

After one has had several failed relationships and libido has slipped to second place.....

a.k.a. I/O

I'm 53 and libido is what makes me want to be in a relationship with a woman first and foremost. If sex is not the main reason, I might just as well share my life with a man. That would probably be a lot easier ;-)

On a more serious note: I do think libido often is driven by all kinds of frustrations and stress, and that duality, once happening, can actually lessen the neurotic nature of ones sex drive, decreasing the need for sex (as a way of letting off steam).

[Adam Strange]

I'm 53 and libido is what makes me want to be in a relationship with a woman first and foremost. If sex is not the main reason, I might just as well share my life with a man. That would probably be a lot easier ;-)

On a more serious note: I do think libido often is driven by all kinds of frustrations and stress, and that duality, once happening, can actually lessen the neurotic nature of ones sex drive, decreasing the need for sex (as a way of letting off steam).

I read this post and I can't stop thinking about it. @consentingadult, are you saying that the only reason to be in a relationship with a woman is sex?

I mean, sex is very, very important to me in a relationship, but if it were the only thing I wanted, I'd just hire it out. It would be a lot cheaper.

[consentingadult]

I read this post and I can't stop thinking about it. @consentingadult, are you saying that the only reason to be in a relationship with a woman is sex?

I mean, sex is very, very important to me in a relationship, but if it were the only thing I wanted, I'd just hire it out. It would be a lot cheaper.

there was a smiley at the end of the last line, so that would have meant to take it with a grain of salt. But I did not say 'only', but 'first and foremost', so sex is not the only reason. That being said, sex is an important reason, and biologically probably the most important reason, to be in a relationship with a woman, because, like I said, if it is not, than you might as well hook up with anyone, even someone of your own sex. Or if you are homosexual, you might just as well hook up with someone from the opposite sex. All other aspects for which we engage into a relationship, we can realize with a person of whatever sex. I could share my life with another man, build a future together, get a home with a mortgage, a car, even children, to some extent I could realize an emotional connection with a man (like I do with male family members and friend), but I would not feel the need for having sex with a man.

I think if we were to really scrutinize our motivations, stripping it of all social constructions modern western societies invented to attribute to the meaning of relationships, sex, in it's widest meaning of the term, is the first and foremost reason. I do not believe in this "women are from Venus and men are from Mars" kind of BS, which some people provide as the reason for man-women relationships, in which each sex has to learn to deal with the oddities of the other sex, exactly because Socionics as well as Jung's theories on animus/anima teach us that man and women are not all that different and that a lot of differences people believe in are just social, cultural constructs, not biological facts. Take a any couple with a female logical type and a male ethical type, for example: who's often wearing the pants?

As for buying sex: sex is not just lust, it is also intimacy. (and, I dare say, as one gets older, intimacy in sex becomes a lot more important than lust). As far as I can tell, you can't really buy intimacy, intimacy being defined as the capacity to emotional connection, which reaches no greater peak than while making love. Even if someone wanted to sell it, it can't practically happen: intimacy needs time for growth, trust, a certain degree of commitment etc. (and in my case an absolute degree of commitment, because no matter what, I make it a point to be always emotionally available to my GF if she needs me to be available, and I also expect the same from her, so there can be no screwing around, literally and figuratively speaking).

[Hope]

You are ready for an LIE when you are ready to get AIDS.

[Dr PissBender]

You are ready for an LIE when you are ready to get AIDS.

I have the most savage duals, omfg i'm dying

[Adam Strange]

You are ready for an LIE when you are ready to get AIDS.

This explains why my SLI ex-wife refuses to kiss me when I visit her and our son.

Well, whatever the reason, I’ll take the results. Lol.

[timber]

I was in my mid 20s and recently divorced.

Came out of nowhere.

As Jerry Springer as this sounds, dual even drove me to my Court Case. Lol, what a weird world it ends up being.

edit: they dropped the charges. I was wrong and payed for it, but fuck that POS until the day I die.

[Aramas]

There's no such thing as ready, imo. It just happens or it doesn't.

[timber]

[Aeris]

You are never ready until it happens.

[Lord Pixel]

ready for EII men:
stop daydreaming about it and talk to her.


ready for EII women
stop thinking your ugly and not enough and that he doesn't really like you.


ready for LSE men:
stop going after anything with a nice set of tits(and paying for everything all the time).


ready for LSE women:
stop looking at his resume.

[SaveYourself]

ime:

- EIE having a sturdy sense of purpose. I'm 25 and have a couple of EIE friends my age and I noticed we were chaotic, manipulative and just out to have a good time until very recently when we integrated a sense of meaning and direction to channel the Fe into.
- Catastrophic mood swings pulled into line (I'm still working on this - I have an strong sense of identity with what ever I'm feeling and impulsively act on it as though it is gospel).
- Ability to be decisive and stand up against pressure. This is just general weakness but I think I had a hard time with Se egos pushing back against me (more so Se-doms than Se-creatives).
- Readiness to accept that you maybe be the one doing all the talking but you're definitely not the one calling the shots

Based on the one LSI I do know well:
- Willingness to be emotionally exposed and go on deep dives about feelings.
- The knowledge that sometimes you can be blunt and hurtful by just being brutally honest
- Recognition that you can't always get what you want by force
- Readiness to accept change and growth in your life and habits
- Ability to let your partner think they are calling the shots whilst you actually keep them in line

Arguments are caused between myself an LSI when a) I overreact to something or b) he doesn't get what he wants and acts forcefully or spitefully (and then I overreact to it).

[FreelancePoliceman]

I think that a lot of the benefits of duality are connected with getting out of one’s particular way of interpreting the world. People who are attached to their own perceptions of the world, or think that people who see things differently are stupid, aren’t likely to like their duals at all. This isn’t part of Model A or mainstream Socionics, but I really do think there are people who choose not to use/be led by their super-id IEs at all.

With Alpha SFs, especially SEIs, there’s a type that is not interested in anything new or different, wants to impose their (generally rather banal) conception of how the world should be (ordered and tidy and polite and dull) on everyone (children, spouses, students, anyone over whom they can try to achieve a position of power), and are actively repulsed by people who think differently from them, who are “weird” and have weird ideas, who are prone to accidentally insult people or overlook social norms — so Alpha NTs, especially ILEs. ESEs can be similar, but their equivalent to this is more actively concerned that people act upbeat and positive rather than merely polite, and take it as a personal insult when people aren’t always positive toward them and the world — that their “social face” isn’t appropriate. This type is insufferable; I heard a (male) one once berate a waiter for seeming tired and unhappy.

As far as Alpha NTs go, my ideas are less clear. I think they might always want/expect Ne stimulation, and so the Alpha SFs can seem boring — other Ne egos, particularly, seem much more interesting and exciting. ILEs particularly want freedom and open possibilities; SEIs usually want a house, kids, and property that has to be frequently maintained. LIIs can be uptight and dogmatic; ESEs’ informality (which in a healthy relationship is mutual and a source of kinship), combined with their lack of Ti-understanding, threatens to make the LII’s mental constructs and efforts meaningless. Also, the LII wants acknowledgement and appreciation; an ESE might have no idea what the LII does and thinks about, and how then could the ESE appreciate the LII’s work?

[Rusal]

With Alpha SFs, especially SEIs, there’s a type that is not interested in anything new or different, wants to impose their (generally rather banal) conception of how the world should be (ordered and tidy and polite and dull) on everyone (children, spouses, students, anyone over whom they can try to achieve a position of power), and are actively repulsed by people who think differently from them, who are “weird” and have weird ideas, who are prone to accidentally insult people or overlook social norms

That sounds ESI, tbh.

[Aramas]

That sounds ESI, tbh.

Yeah... I was thinking it didn't sound that great. An SEI would be more likely to give you advice on how to be the best kind of weird xD. Or give you details advice on creating your own world.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

There's no such thing as ready. You have to take a risk with your heart so love can find you. You will never feel ready about anything in life you just kinda take the jump and do the best you can.

The more confident you are at fixing your own life the more you will pick somebody that is compatible for you probably. A working relationship requires more logical components than just feeling for somebody. I've seen people fall in love too much and get burnt because they kinda fell for a narcissist's image.

And you need to be attracted to the person of course, but I've seen so many failed relationships where people were IN LUST with somebody and they called it 'love' but it was clear as day to other people that it was just lust. Lust actually isn't the enemy to me, but I think it does sadly turn into that when people confuse it.

[sbbds]

SLE guys are basically the easiest type to attract lol @Emily . If you wait too long to spread ‘em then they might get exasperated and hate you though. All you have to do is exist, and be acceptably hot, quiet and introverted. In other words, just be yourself.

[The Reality Denialist]

The world is not ready for me or I am not ready for the world. Either way I am constantly questioning my own existence on this planet or better to be put: I don't know if this is a life or some sort sick game played by someone with higher consciousness of which I am not capable of grasping.

So can "to be ready" be real itself, dunno.

Anyway, if I was ready for the world I'd also be ready for the dual. Simple as that.

[Hope]

It depends on the age and preferences of each dual. I mean you are ready for someone if you are in the same wavelenght. Its not the same an IEE male 20 yo on collegue in the US to an christian IEE female on her 35 with a child in Tailand. Even when they are both the same type their lifestyle and needs are different.

[Muddy]

Me and my body are always ready ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[Aramas]

Me and my body are always ready ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

It's official. I'm muddys dual. Take me.

[Dr PissBender]

I don't know. I met my SLI not long ago when I was like, in really hard hard times, and it still works. I don't think there is a formula for that. But yeah. I left a lot of vices behind, thanks Cthulhu. I used to be kind of an addict before, so i'm glad I met her when I no longer was one, so that's cool.

[ashlesha]

I thought LIEs always hired out their duals (;

[Adam Strange]

I thought LIEs always hired out their duals (;

Do you mean, LIE's hire out their duals like the operators of a temp agency which finds work for workers, or LIE's hire duals like a person paying for sex?

I used to think that I would never, ever pay for sex. I only wanted sex with a woman who truly loves me (and that is actually still true). But I have since come to realize that there are many ways of paying for sex, and not all of them mean that the participants don't love each other.

I was married for many years to an SLI woman whom I loved, and initially, we had a fair amount of sex, but the frequency quickly dropped to less than once a month and the last few years were entirely sex-free. (If you are on the Aggressor-Victim axis, don't try to cross the line to the Caregiver-Infantile axis. You will regret it, no matter what your dick thinks right now. Incidentally, sex only got better with both of my Aggressor LSI GF's.)
Considering the amount of cash my ex-wife took from the divorce, those individual sex acts were each ungodly expensive.

*EDIT*
I've been thinking about this, and I've concluded that I would definitely pay an ESI that I know for sex once or twice, just to get her attention. After that, we can negotiate.

I think LIE's are probably best among all types with the concept of paying people for services rendered. If we don't have the money ourselves, we will find someone who can pay in our stead for the services.
It's all those Contracts, Money, and low Fi that we are made of.

[ashlesha]

Loling at the loving husband & pimp concept.

[Adam Strange]

@consentingadult, I like what you said about intimacy.

Maybe I didn't mention it because, to me, that part is like water to a fish.

[consentingadult]

@consentingadult, I like what you said about intimacy.

Maybe I didn't mention it because, to me, that part is like water to a fish.

It is like water to a fish. I won't speak for all young people, but I do think that for younger people in general, sex tends more towards lust than intimacy, so it might not be obvious to everyone.

[consentingadult]

Back to the topic of this thread: when are you ready for your dual. Well, Dream Theater provided the answer in their song "Metropolis Part I - The Miracle and The Sleeper":



The smile of dawn arrived early May
She carried a gift from her home
The night shed a tear to tell her of fear
And of sorrow and pain
She'll never outgrow
Death is the first dance, eternal

There's no more freedom
The both of you will be
confined to this mind

I was told there's a miracle for each day that I try
I was told there's a new love
that's born for each one that has died
I was told there'd be no one to
call on when I feel alone and afraid
I was told if you dream of the next world
You'll find yourself swimming in a lake of fire

As a child, I thought I could
live without pain without sorrow
As a man I've found it's all caught up with me
I'm asleep yet I'm so afraid

Somewhere like a scene from a memory
There's a picture worth a thousand words
Eluding stares from faces before me
It hides away and will never be heard of again
Deceit is the second without end

The city's cold blood teaches us to survive
Just keep my heart in your eyes and we'll stay alive
The third arrives

Before the leaves have fallen
Before we lock the doors
There must be the third and last dance
This one will last forever
Metropolis watches and thoughtfully smiles
She's taken you to your home
It can only take place
When the struggle between
our children has ended
Now the Miracle and the
Sleeper know that the third is love
Love is the dance of eternity

[The Reality Denialist]

I have tought that relationships are for conforming losers and real life is in dusty lab to be honest. Not much has changed, yet. As for libido I must ask: What is that? I never really wanted it because the act itself looks too much to be bothered in the end.

[consentingadult]

I got crab once. The bad part was that I didn't even get if from sex. Had I gotten it through sex, then at least I would have had sex, but all I got was bad luck twice...

[Aramas]

I got crab once. The bad part was that I didn't even get if from sex. Had I gotten it through sex, then at least I would have had sex, but all I got was bad luck twice...

How?

[consentingadult]

I'm not sure: at the time I was working as a turn down attendant in a hotel. One day shortly before that I wore a pair of uniform pants that had been worn by another colleague, because they ran out of clean pants. That might have been the cause. Another one is that during work I carried large piles of used towels out the rooms I was getting ready for the night, perhaps they came that way.

The last time I had sex was two months before, according to my doctor I should have had problems much sooner if it was transmitted during that last sex session.

[gone]

Never/always

[Aria]

2. I think that the more attached they are to their vision the more unhealthy they are. IEIs tend to stagnate if they get attached to their vision because things aren’t ‘perfect’. IMO they are most ready when they stop clinging to their idealism because they would idealize the ‘right’ SLE. Idealizing in a relationship is bad.

Good point with the bolded #2 above, and you're right. Idealizing everything down to the tiniest little point and being unable to accept anything less can be severely limiting. Refusing to listen or expanding your worldview is such a narrow way to live. There has to be some compromise between opening up your worldview but not letting go of one's dreams for someone else--maybe that's what I was getting at by "not letting go of your vision": don't give up who you are or what you want for a romantic partner. The older I get, the more I know myself and what I can and can't give up. It's fun to see what has changed, though, and what I'd be willing to explore/do differently than in my 20s.

4. Maybe this varies with SLEs but I spend my time trying to get IEIs (and SEIs) to verbalize what they think, and they don’t have to manipulate me to get what they want. I think it creates a good positive Fe atmosphere. Maybe it’s different with other SLEs.

I think this is an incredibly valuable asset of a healthy SLE. So thanks

What makes an SLE ready:
1. They have to be open minded enough to not pass any Ni as BS, they should be able to listen at least
2. Show basic care like asking about your day, listening
3. Knowing that they aren’t the center of the world and not everything revolves around them
4. Knowing when to cut a IEI on their BS, because IEIs can take things for granted. Just because SLEs can fool around doesn’t mean IEIs can purposely waste their time

What are some ways you've noticed IEIs can take SLEs for granted?

I think that these come naturally in duality so I wouldn’t ‘wait’ for the perfect moment. I know that in the process both personalities get better

A hopeful thought.

[Aria]

I usually have to save the IEIs a** when it comes to doing projects with her because she’s really bad at Se. Our field is very spontaneous, and she doesn’t do anything to save herself. When I’m in a group with her I would do 70% of the work, and the other 30% I have to guide her through it. She still manages to find the most irrelevant mistakes and stress me out about it. She doesn’t do this to other group members, she’s nit-picky when it comes to me because she knows I’d ‘understand’. I usually score well when working alone or with other partners, so I know what I’m doing. She knows what I’m doing yet she still acts bratty.

Well that stinks. It's hard when people don't take responsibility for themselves.

The same goes for another SLE that I know, an IEI is so accustomed to her he treats her like shit sometimes. I don’t know why it’s us specifically, they don’t do this with other types because (maybe) other types don’t give them enough face or attention. Which is why I always say that LSIs are better for unhealthy IEIs, because an LSI wouldn’t make an IEI feel understood therefore they would cut down on complaints.

Hmm, time to get another friend.....I don't have enough duality experience to speak into why that could be happening. It sounds like a dynamic where an unhealthy person has gotten comfortable with little to no boundaries or consequences. But strange it only seems to manifest around the SLE Does it seem like she thinks the SLE is the only one who can "take it," or it's just that the SLE is only one who won't push back?

[sbbds]

I usually have to save the IEIs a** when it comes to doing projects with her because she’s really bad at Se. Our field is very spontaneous, and she doesn’t do anything to save herself. When I’m in a group with her I would do 70% of the work, and the other 30% I have to guide her through it. She still manages to find the most irrelevant mistakes and stress me out about it. She doesn’t do this to other group members, she’s nit-picky when it comes to me because she knows I’d ‘understand’. I usually score well when working alone or with other partners, so I know what I’m doing. She knows what I’m doing yet she still acts bratty.

The same goes for another SLE that I know, an IEI is so accustomed to her he treats her like shit sometimes. I don’t know why it’s us specifically, they don’t do this with other types because (maybe) other types don’t give them enough face or attention. Which is why I always say that LSIs are better for unhealthy IEIs, because an LSI wouldn’t make an IEI feel understood therefore they would cut down on complaints.

Fe is like that, they only act shitty once they know that there won’t be social consequences.

You should not let their behaviour persist. You should call them out for it. Stop helping them or work with other people if they keep acting that way, or at least tell them that their behavior is too much considering how much you’re helping them. Don’t be an enabler.

[Aria]

It seems like the idea is that SLEs are supposed to be fucking everything that moves etc, and I don't live up to that in any way, so I don't think I'll ever be "ready" for an IEI, or atleast not be what they expect me to be.

For what it's worth, this is not what I expect an SLE to be, and not even close to what I look for in a man.

So when will I be ready? Maybe some day when I've lost some weight and have gotten over the last shred of care that I have for other peoples opinions, and when I've gotten over my own insecurities

You don't have to be perfect to enter a relationship. Get healthy for you because you're valuable.