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Thread: Chilling Adventures of Sabrina

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    Default Chilling Adventures of Sabrina

    Anyone else seen it? Thoughts on socionics?

    I guess from my point of view, Sabrina seems maybe IEE because she's always looking at the alternatives to things, Hilda kind of SEI - a bit introverted, Fi demonstrative, but very gentle and nice, and Zelda I think a bit ESE with the domineering attitude, yet being so sensitive on an emotional level to everything that happens around her. But I put very little thought into that, just hopefully starting the thread.
    previously Megadoodoo

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    Sabrina - LSE
    Hilda - ILE
    Zelda - LIE
    Harvey - ESE
    Father Blackwood - LSI
    Lucifer - LSI
    Nick Scratch - LSE

    ....And that's all I can think of at the moment.

    The first two seasons were better than the third. The third season was rushed and chaotic. They had too many plots and subplots and loose ends to tie up. It felt like a shallow season where nothing really got started well enough to end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    The first two seasons were better than the third. The third season was rushed and chaotic. They had too many plots and subplots and loose ends to tie up. It felt like a shallow season where nothing really got started well enough to end.
    Yeah, I would have liked to see Sabrina follow more souls or a bit more out of the pagans or even Caliban and even the rules of hell.

    And more about what's going on with Lucifer. He's too much of a one-sided villain, but I guess that's what they wanted to go with. But now it feels like he's going to fade away or something.
    And it felt like they were setting Sabrina up for being alone with the Nick trauma storyline. It didn't really make a lot of sense to me why he would actually hate her; she never made him do anything and she wasn't going to leave or anything. Or maybe he's supposed to blame her for going against her dad to begin with? I don't know, it just seemed a bit forced. Same with Harvey. Just suddenly "we're friends" lol when she never really did anything wrong, just crossed a line without meaning to.

    And I know this is a show, but sometimes I get the impression that most people don't actually care about what anyone means by anything, but only what they think things mean or what they want them to mean or just what happened. And that's something I will probably never really understand because it's only on the surface.
    previously Megadoodoo

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    Quote Originally Posted by noctis View Post
    Yeah, I would have liked to see Sabrina follow more souls or a bit more out of the pagans or even Caliban and even the rules of hell.

    And more about what's going on with Lucifer. He's too much of a one-sided villain, but I guess that's what they wanted to go with. But now it feels like he's going to fade away or something.
    And it felt like they were setting Sabrina up for being alone with the Nick trauma storyline. It didn't really make a lot of sense to me why he would actually hate her; she never made him do anything and she wasn't going to leave or anything. Or maybe he's supposed to blame her for going against her dad to begin with? I don't know, it just seemed a bit forced. Same with Harvey. Just suddenly "we're friends" lol when she never really did anything wrong, just crossed a line without meaning to.

    And I know this is a show, but sometimes I get the impression that most people don't actually care about what anyone means by anything, but only what they think things mean or what they want them to mean or just what happened. And that's something I will probably never really understand because it's only on the surface.
    Yeah, there's a lot of inconsistency in the characters. Lucifer all of a sudden seems like a sideshow. Really? lol....
    Sabrina also doesn't seem to have the same moral force she did in the first two seasons. Her behavior doesn't seem quite as justifiable. It was as erratic as the third season itself lol.

    I like the show anyway and will continue watching it most likely, but I was a bit let down. The second season had an excellent finishing episode. We knew that there would at some point be a journey to hell to save Nick. I was actually kinda relieved to see that it only took one episode lol. I didn't want the entire next season and finale to be revealed in the last episode of the season. That would have been boring. They're doing the same thing with this season: we know that there's something cthulhu-related going on, but not what exactly.

    I'm curious to find out what's going to happen with two sabrinas. They actually kinda seem malevolent and tricksterish, like not even the same person tbh. I'm almost hoping at some point that they siege heaven and win against the false god. xD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    I'm curious to find out what's going to happen with two sabrinas. They actually kinda seem malevolent and tricksterish, like not even the same person tbh.
    I hope they can explain the two Sabrina thing with the whole time travel business. I don't really understand it. There seems to be three Sabrinas; the one that took her place in the bad ?timeline?; the main character that went back and fixed everything (in an alternate timeline?); and the Hell Sabrina that belongs in the timeline we're seeing?

    But that doesn't explain why the one in the bad timeline said they needed to switch places in the stone to complete the "time loop". Couldn't she have just gone farther back and done that herself?
    Or maybe by time loop they mean that time travel is already built into causality and you don't really change anything. Except that she clearly did. Unless they are just alternate timelines, but then there's no need to complete any time loops. I'm really confused...
    Or maybe it means that only one Sabrina can be a part of the world. So she goes into the stone and the Hell Sabrina lives on and merges or something later with the other Sabrinas? Except that by changing the past, the future Sabrina's wouldn't exist and none of that would have happened, so that can't be it either.

    *I think I may have figured out a possible solution to the time traveling, so please only read it if you don't mind being possibly spoilered in the next season*

    ...I'm really curious how the writers are going to tie this time travel thing up. I guess it will involve that Lovecraftian monster, since it was why she time traveled to begin with. Unless...she ends up going to the future to switch places with herself in the stone and she's the one that starts the time loops. Then... the bad timeline Sabrina telling her she has to go into the stone makes sense because she has to initiate the looping to change the past...because that is her...and there is only supposed to be one Sabrina...


    I'm almost hoping at some point that they siege heaven and win against the false god. xD
    I hope they involve Heaven at some point too, and maybe even God. There's so much potential for storytelling.

    This show is fun.
    previously Megadoodoo

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    Quote Originally Posted by noctis View Post
    I hope they can explain the two Sabrina thing with the whole time travel business. I don't really understand it. There seems to be three Sabrinas; the one that took her place in the bad ?timeline?; the main character that went back and fixed everything (in an alternate timeline?); and the Hell Sabrina that belongs in the timeline we're seeing?

    But that doesn't explain why the one in the bad timeline said they needed to switch places in the stone to complete the "time loop". Couldn't she have just gone farther back and done that herself?
    Or maybe by time loop they mean that time travel is already built into causality and you don't really change anything. Except that she clearly did. Unless they are just alternate timelines, but then there's no need to complete any time loops. I'm really confused...
    Or maybe it means that only one Sabrina can be a part of the world. So she goes into the stone and the Hell Sabrina lives on and merges or something later with the other Sabrinas? Except that by changing the past, the future Sabrina's wouldn't exist and none of that would have happened, so that can't be it either.

    *I think I may have figured out a possible solution to the time traveling, so please only read it if you don't mind being possibly spoilered in the next season*

    ...I'm really curious how the writers are going to tie this time travel thing up. I guess it will involve that Lovecraftian monster, since it was why she time traveled to begin with. Unless...she ends up going to the future to switch places with herself in the stone and she's the one that starts the time loops. Then... the bad timeline Sabrina telling her she has to go into the stone makes sense because she has to initiate the looping to change the past...because that is her...and there is only supposed to be one Sabrina...




    I hope they involve Heaven at some point too, and maybe even God. There's so much potential for storytelling.

    This show is fun.
    Storytelling? I'm thinking coup d'etat xD

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    I had an odd feeling the original Sabrina could be considered an IEE, though I didn't really watch it and just remember vaguely seeing bits of it here and there in my youth. I was kind of curious to check out this new one, maybe I will!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bouncingoffclouds View Post
    I had an odd feeling the original Sabrina could be considered an IEE, though I didn't really watch it and just remember vaguely seeing bits of it here and there in my youth. I was kind of curious to check out this new one, maybe I will!
    I always thought ILE personally. Maybe I'm wrong though. Do you mean from the original Sabrina the Teenage Witch series?

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    Yeah I do, but you are probably right considering I didn't really watch it. I would just vaguely see clips from it if someone else was watching it, or on a commercial or whatever lol. 90's Nickelodeon. I guess the Ne base seems fairly obvious then!

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    I think Sabrina is SEE, somewhat reminiscent of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. She's definitely along the Te/Fi axis but they seem almost evenly weighted, with Fi having the edge (she's "woke" af). She often acts based on her own, seemingly strong sense of subjective values/notions of right and wrong. But I don't see much, if any Ne lead style ideation. She seems more grounded and solid, and is not afraid to assert herself and make forceful demands regarding her principles. I vaguely recall her saying something along the lines of "I want both freedom and power" which is essentially a Gamma creed.

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    I haven't seen the latest season (and I think I missed like half of the 2nd season) but...

    The main actress girl is LSE in real life but I think she's playing a Gamma SEE on the show. She reminds me of Dolphin a lot. Gammas seem to often be 'tempted' by bad and the struggle between our heroic impulses vs. our darker, more selfish/lustful ones- and that is what the show is essentially about, which is a gamma struggle. Do I serve soup to homeless ppl with Deltas or do I hungrily suck on Satan's cock with my hot warlock boyfriend, and is it such a bad thing anyway? Gammas feel that pull and conflict the most I think, whereas an individual Beta or Delta more or less just does it or not. Even if the Beta is actually the one serving the soup to the homeless, and the Delta is the cocksucker.

    The Harvey guy is Delta as hell to me. Like so Delta it hurts.

    The dark priest guy, I liked him a lot- maybe some type of beta? EIE or ESI. He was probably my favorite character.

    Prudence, the aggressive black woman that likes to prank people and is a bit of a bully - ILI.

    Not sure about Sabrina's aunts... they seem to really like tradition. Delta/alpha maybe or gamma/alpha I don't know. (the nicer one seems alpha- or possibly just another IEE.) The more stern one could be ESI or even EIE I'm not really sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bouncingoffclouds View Post
    I had an odd feeling the original Sabrina could be considered an IEE, though I didn't really watch it and just remember vaguely seeing bits of it here and there in my youth. I was kind of curious to check out this new one, maybe I will!
    Well I liked it. But I guess in retrospect after reading people complain about it online, the story isn't that well written.
    But if you like watching shows to enter an imaginary world and go on a journey, I think this shows is great. Reminds me a lot of Doctor Who, which I love as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    I haven't seen the latest season (and I think I missed like half of the 2nd season) but...

    The main actress girl is LSE in real life but I think she's playing a Gamma SEE on the show. She reminds me of Dolphin a lot. Gammas seem to often be 'tempted' by bad and the struggle between our heroic impulses vs. our darker, more selfish/lustful ones- and that is what the show is essentially about, which is a gamma struggle. Do I serve soup to homeless ppl with Deltas or do I hungrily suck on Satan's cock with my hot warlock boyfriend, and is it such a bad thing anyway? Gammas feel that pull and conflict the most I think, whereas an individual Beta or Delta more or less just does it or not. Even if the Beta is actually the one serving the soup to the homeless, and the Delta is the cocksucker.
    "Satan's cock"
    On that note, the scene with Agatha and Dorcas making fun of Nick for having her "daddy" "inside him". Saying he was Satan's bitch and really wanted daddy, not Sabrina. Hah, that was clever.

    The dark priest guy, I liked him a lot- maybe some type of beta? EIE or ESI. He was probably my favorite character.
    He's strangely hot. But his narcissism is too off-putting for me. It's not cute; he just uses people for power. I'm not sure what his type would be really or if it's a good idea to type someone like that? But if I had to pick one though, maybe LIE. He reminds me a bit of Cartman in the later South Park seasons. EJ and low feeling might suit his character well, even if it's not true that LIEs are generally like that.

    Actually as a mental exercise, what do you think the difference between a narcissistic EIE and a narcissistic LIE would be?
    previously Megadoodoo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alonzo View Post
    I think Sabrina is SEE, somewhat reminiscent of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. She's definitely along the Te/Fi axis but they seem almost evenly weighted, with Fi having the edge (she's "woke" af). She often acts based on her own, seemingly strong sense of subjective values/notions of right and wrong. But I don't see much, if any Ne lead style ideation. She seems more grounded and solid, and is not afraid to assert herself and make forceful demands regarding her principles. I vaguely recall her saying something along the lines of "I want both freedom and power" which is essentially a Gamma creed.
    I guess what throws me from that idea is that she's always finding loopholes in everything she does to get alternative outcomes. She's actually not very direct or in the moment in my opinion.
    *She tricked the Dark Lord into pretending to burn down her school for him, thinking he would tell her to stop, while also using his power to help her community (by signing the book). She managed to get the power, but not sacrifice for it.
    *She managed to trick the Witches Council by manifesting a vision of the Dark Lord without anyone knowing. She fooled them, while playing the Priest that expected her to do something.
    *She tried to bring Harvey's brother back by creating a new necromancy spell (even though it didn't work).
    *She gave up the ability to resurrect, burn, and heal people because she was afraid the power was somehow evil. For some reason I think Ne types find power frightening because of its potential for misuse.
    *She also managed to redo her timeline after realizing the pursuit of power wasn't what was needed. And then thinks she could just exist with two versions of herself in the same time (and get both?)
    I find like she's defined by finding loopholes and dealing with the chaos it brings and that kind of feels not very grounded and Se. It feels very Doctor Whoy actually, which usually flows from a similar kind of Ne.
    previously Megadoodoo

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    He's strangely hot. But his narcissism is too off-putting for me. It's not cute; he just uses people for power.


    Yeah I don't know, his 'evil side' is just really lusty and hot and he keeps up the dark hierarchy of the worlds in a kind of business sense (He's sort of like a much more dignified Crowley from Supernatural) but nothing he's done has really offended me in the 'omg you're so evil, how could you!' way. But like I said I haven't really seen the latest season so he might have done something like that? I still probably wouldn't dislike him, I do like the bad boys after all. /shrug It's the type of narcissism I don't mind because he's dignified and perverted. If he was narcissistic and acted like idk... Justin Bieber, yeah then I would want Buffy to drive a stake through his heart.

    Ironically enough, I would feel the most used in the bad way probably if I had to hang around Harvey. He's just way too delta for me lol.

    Actually as a mental exercise, what do you think the difference between a narcissistic EIE and a narcissistic LIE would be?
    Narcissistic EIE would be more theatrical, and more directly emotional- narc LIE would just kind of troll everybody by mansplaining or logicalsplaining a bunch of crap nobody cares about abrasively without really paying attention or caring if other people want to hear it or not. Narc LIE would appear much more dispassionate, but hide deeper wells of narcissistic rage. Narc EIE would wear its narcissistic rage more on its sleeve. One is logical and the other ethical and I think that itself is the main difference. EIEs are a bit more logical sounding than say, SEI or IEI but they are still obviously feelers. The more I hear myself type this- the more I think dark priest might be a good example of a male ESI more than anything. It's mostly a gamma show over all anyway. And him being my benefactor probably makes the most sense.


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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    I haven't seen the latest season (and I think I missed like half of the 2nd season) but...

    The main actress girl is LSE in real life but I think she's playing a Gamma SEE on the show. She reminds me of Dolphin a lot. Gammas seem to often be 'tempted' by bad and the struggle between our heroic impulses vs. our darker, more selfish/lustful ones- and that is what the show is essentially about, which is a gamma struggle. Do I serve soup to homeless ppl with Deltas or do I hungrily suck on Satan's cock with my hot warlock boyfriend, and is it such a bad thing anyway? Gammas feel that pull and conflict the most I think, whereas an individual Beta or Delta more or less just does it or not. Even if the Beta is actually the one serving the soup to the homeless, and the Delta is the cocksucker.

    The Harvey guy is Delta as hell to me. Like so Delta it hurts.

    The dark priest guy, I liked him a lot- maybe some type of beta? EIE or ESI. He was probably my favorite character.

    Prudence, the aggressive black woman that likes to prank people and is a bit of a bully - ILI.

    Not sure about Sabrina's aunts... they seem to really like tradition. Delta/alpha maybe or gamma/alpha I don't know. (the nicer one seems alpha- or possibly just another IEE.) The more stern one could be ESI or even EIE I'm not really sure.
    This synopsis definitely made me want to watch the show. I also liked the line, "Even if the Beta is actually the one serving soup to the homeless, and the Delta is the cocksucker", lol. Sorry, not really helpful in any way, just wanted to share. I think I will check out out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noctis View Post
    I guess what throws me from that idea is that she's always finding loopholes in everything she does to get alternative outcomes. She's actually not very direct or in the moment in my opinion.
    So SEEs never have ideas? Lol Of course, they do; everyone does. Having ideas ≠ Ne lead. It’s about the dimensionality, or the scope/degree to which being “ideational” factors into one’s consciousness. Sabrina is not an idea generator in the way that Ne leads typically are–instead, it’s her circle of friends and family (especially Wardwell, Ambrose and her aunts) that have often provided her with the ideas that she figured out how to implement, usually using her sheer will/force to get er done.

    For example:

    Quote Originally Posted by noctis View Post
    *She tricked the Dark Lord into pretending to burn down her school for him, thinking he would tell her to stop, while also using his power to help her community (by signing the book). She managed to get the power, but not sacrifice for it.
    “My aunt Hilda told me she thought the Dark Lord was more interested in her willingness to do something, then in her actually doing the thing, so I took the chance[to ACT < Se].” SEEs appreciate those with the ability to come up with Ne novel ideas and thoughts, but they will primarily filter them through their ego functions.

    Ne leads are more likely to hop around from idea to idea, as an exercise in and of itself, with 2D Se giving them insufficient cause to fully act upon and implement those ideas, which is why they can often have poor follow thru. In contrast, whenever Sabrina is fed novel information, she uses it to take clear cut action.

    Quote Originally Posted by noctis View Post
    *She managed to trick the Witches Council by manifesting a vision of the Dark Lord without anyone knowing. She fooled them, while playing the Priest that expected her to do something.
    “I won’t stand by and watch him be executed. And if I have to take on the entire council, then so be it.” Typical of an SEE, Sabrina thinks that she can just ‘WILL’ her wishes into existence, from a place of dealing with issues as they arise (‘let’s try it and see what happens’), rather than plan for all the things that could go wrong . Her aunts are the ones who inform her of what she would be up against> (Zelda [LSE] looking at "negative" potential{-Ne} of how the situation could go wrong because the council is powerful and Hilda [ESE] looking at the “positive” potential {+Ne} for what might happen if they work together and distract everyone so Sabrina wouldn’t be suspected).

    Quote Originally Posted by noctis View Post
    *She tried to bring Harvey's brother back by creating a new necromancy spell (even though it didn't work).
    “Please, Ms. Wardwell, I love him. As Sabrina his girlfriend, I can do but so much. As Sabrina the witch...I could fix this. If I..if we have the power to ease his suffering, why shouldn’t I use it?” Sabrina is essentially asking Wardwell to give her access to what’s possible, so that she can act. I don’t think an IEE witch would ever have to turn to someone else to conceive of possible ways to go about achieving some end.

    Wardwell gave her the incantation; Roz accessed her visions and told Sabrina about the weird sisters being behind the death of Harvey’s brother. Sabrina benefited from both of their intuitive capabilities and only tweaked the incantation (by way of a concrete action) so as to satiate her Fi desire to not have blood on her hands.

    Quote Originally Posted by noctis View Post
    *She gave up the ability to resurrect, burn, and heal people because she was afraid the power was somehow evil. For some reason I think Ne types find power frightening because of its potential for misuse.
    For one, Se leads are adept at knowing the right amount of force/will required in any given context in order to carry out their aims–they know when to escalate or de-escalate. Being truly powerful means that one knows when not to use their power. I know quite a few Se lead fighters who are the most peaceful, non confrontational beings outside of the ring but monsters of devastating force within it. Therefore, forgoing the use of “too much” power doesn’t seem entirely uncharacteristic of an Se lead.

    Furthermore, I don’t really see this as Ne or Se related; it’s more of an Fi issue. Sabrina doesn’t want to compromise her own values and harm her loved ones. I think it’s the creative function that is behaving as a mitigating force in this instance. In order to maintain her interpersonal bonds and personal integrity, she’s choosing to scale back the power, which, again, is something that Se leads intrinsically know how to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by noctis View Post
    *She also managed to redo her timeline after realizing the pursuit of power wasn't what was needed. And then thinks she could just exist with two versions of herself in the same time (and get both?)
    I find like she's defined by finding loopholes and dealing with the chaos it brings and that kind of feels not very grounded and Se. It feels very Doctor Whoy actually, which usually flows from a similar kind of Ne.
    I don’t know what incident you’re specifically referring to; I haven’t had the chance to begin season 3 if what you’re talking about took place there.

    Furthermore, all types with the EP (flexible-maneuverable) temperament are inclined to find “loopholes” and work outside linear based rules. IEEs explore ideas by way of making seemingly disparate connections and SEEs take concrete, decisive action buttressed by their will. Most of the Ne/intuitive connections don’t often originate with Sabrina, though she is often the ones putting them into play, which to me suggests SEE over IEE. It's not enough that she has ideas, because everyone does. It's the manner and frequency by which they are accessed and acted upon that matters more.

    Lastly, Sabrina does not communicate like an intuitive; compare her with Ambrose (EIE), who frequently speaks in metaphor and intuitive associations. Sabrina is often direct, straight forward and concrete in her speech patterns. Granted, everyone is capable of employing metaphorical speech, but intuitive types do this with a much higher frequency.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero11 View Post
    Harvey has a killable face.
    And hair.

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    I initially believed Sabrina to be IEE, though I see a compelling case for SEE. I have a long way to catch up still, though the further in you delve into the show the higher her hunger for authority seems to become... But her endless debating, and her debating skills, pushed me into IEE... Though that could also just be Fi/Te (and specifically Te HA.). She is pretty headstrong which is another point towards SEE, I think... I find her very admirable and I wish I could adopt her personality as my own.
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    Started watching the show. Something about the main actress reminds me of Emma Watson, which makes me think that Emma Watson might also be LSE (I looked up the thread after and saw a lot of people saw LSE for her as well).

    As for her character, hard to say so far, but I do think the one aunt might be beta, LSI? EIE? (though I contemplated ESI at first too) and the nicer aunt Hilda is Si in ego block maybe. Sabrina seems like a Te valuer and yeah, probably Se over Ne, so far

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    I think we also need to take into consideration how signing the book of the beast had changed her personality as well, since it obviously made an impact.
    And I'm what you desire, like a siren in the night



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    Sometimes I see hints at ESI for Zelda still, but I've seen more hints toward beta it feels like. Maybe she's LSI???? Dang there was something I caught onto that really helped build a decent case for beta, can't remember it now, lol. She does always get very annoyed by her sister though

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alonzo View Post
    So SEEs never have ideas? Lol Of course, they do; everyone does. Having ideas ≠ Ne lead. It’s about the dimensionality, or the scope/degree to which being “ideational” factors into one’s consciousness. Sabrina is not an idea generator in the way that Ne leads typically are–instead, it’s her circle of friends and family (especially Wardwell, Ambrose and her aunts) that have often provided her with the ideas that she figured out how to implement, usually using her sheer will/force to get er done.
    Not that I'm disagreeing with you here (because I don't think what you implied here), but it does get really old how somebody says one thing about an IE and people think it infers and implies something about another IE. It sets the tone of the conversation to be argumentative and it feels like people aren't trying to understand where the other is coming from. But anyway,

    It's been my experience that SEEs are wary of new ideas in general because they don't know if a new idea will work out or not. That's not to say that they don't have them, but usually, at least in my experience, an idea has to be practical or paint a complete picture in a big picture sort of way (Ni) or they aren't going to be all that receptive to it.

    That said,

    “My aunt Hilda told me she thought the Dark Lord was more interested in her willingness to do something, then in her actually doing the thing, so I took the chance[to ACT < Se].” SEEs appreciate those with the ability to come up with Ne novel ideas and thoughts, but they will primarily filter them through their ego functions.
    In retrospect, I could agree that Aunt Hilda gave Sabrina an Ni pattern to work with there. And her Se used it.

    Ne leads are more likely to hop around from idea to idea, as an exercise in and of itself, with 2D Se giving them insufficient cause to fully act upon and implement those ideas, which is why they can often have poor follow thru. In contrast, whenever Sabrina is fed novel information, she uses it to take clear cut action.
    I don't think Se relates necessarily to enacting things though - Se is just a more direct interaction with the surrounding environment that is supported by Ni. They are just more involved with what's going on in the moment. But creating a plan of action and following it through is more Te imo. And IEEs are just fine with that when they have their goals.

    And so I take issue with Sabrina being likened to purely Se when she's often very scattered and not dealing with things in the moment or directly. If anything I'm on the fence about Se or Ne lead.

    “I won’t stand by and watch him be executed. And if I have to take on the entire council, then so be it.” Typical of an SEE, Sabrina thinks that she can just ‘WILL’ her wishes into existence, from a place of dealing with issues as they arise (‘let’s try it and see what happens’), rather than plan for all the things that could go wrong . Her aunts are the ones who inform her of what she would be up against> (Zelda [LSE] looking at "negative" potential{-Ne} of how the situation could go wrong because the council is powerful and Hilda [ESE] looking at the “positive” potential {+Ne} for what might happen if they work together and distract everyone so Sabrina wouldn’t be suspected).
    This is more a value judgement though imo -> i.e. rational. Wanting to do something is value driven, even if Sabrina doesn't know what she's up against -> poor Te. And it's a kind of "will" yes, but I don't think force of will is always Se either. And it lends more to the Fi/Te axis then imo. IEEs do this too, if something is that important to them. Plus ‘let’s try it and see what happens’ sounds like an Ne experimenting mantra, not a grounded Se one.

    As far as what you said about Zelda and Hilda, it would be interesting to talk about that more. I'm not sure why -Ne or +Ne would have to mean they are LSE or ESE respectively. Are those the types you think they represent most? I haven't thought about it and I'm not saying I think you are wrong, but for some instinctive reason I can't understand, Zelda gives me an annoying cold-shoulder and subjectively analytical Ti vibe. So I'm curious.

    “Please, Ms. Wardwell, I love him. As Sabrina his girlfriend, I can do but so much. As Sabrina the witch...I could fix this. If I..if we have the power to ease his suffering, why shouldn’t I use it?” Sabrina is essentially asking Wardwell to give her access to what’s possible, so that she can act. I don’t think an IEE witch would ever have to turn to someone else to conceive of possible ways to go about achieving some end.
    I don't know. To me that sounds like values again and Sabrina seeking Te to address them. I don't see why an IEE wouldn't seek out information that could help them with what they value. And contrary to Socionics doctrine, "Power" is not just an Se thing. Ne and Se both seek power, but different kinds.

    Wardwell gave her the incantation; Roz accessed her visions and told Sabrina about the weird sisters being behind the death of Harvey’s brother. Sabrina benefited from both of their intuitive capabilities and only tweaked the incantation (by way of a concrete action) so as to satiate her Fi desire to not have blood on her hands.
    Tweaking the incantation without knowing the implications of doing so is a lot more Ne imo. Conceptually Se is too grounded for mistakes like that. Their failings are more about bad or inaccurate Ni patterns, not trying an untested or not thought-out idea and hoping for the best.

    For one, Se leads are adept at knowing the right amount of force/will required in any given context in order to carry out their aims–they know when to escalate or de-escalate. Being truly powerful means that one knows when not to use their power. I know quite a few Se lead fighters who are the most peaceful, non confrontational beings outside of the ring but monsters of devastating force within it. Therefore, forgoing the use of “too much” power doesn’t seem entirely uncharacteristic of an Se lead.

    Furthermore, I don’t really see this as Ne or Se related; it’s more of an Fi issue. Sabrina doesn’t want to compromise her own values and harm her loved ones. I think it’s the creative function that is behaving as a mitigating force in this instance. In order to maintain her interpersonal bonds and personal integrity, she’s choosing to scale back the power, which, again, is something that Se leads intrinsically know how to do.
    Well I agree it's more of an Fi issue anyway. But giving up that kind of power takes away from the ego of an Se type as well. You explain the fighter as an example, but he doesn't set aside his fighting power completely outside the ring just because he doesn't need it there. He keeps it trained for when he does need it. Se types are like that; they want to be able to deal directly with all kinds of contexts. She gave up a most Se power imo.

    I don’t know what incident you’re specifically referring to; I haven’t had the chance to begin season 3 if what you’re talking about took place there.
    Oh sorry, I might have spoiled it for you then, lol.

    Furthermore, all types with the EP (flexible-maneuverable) temperament are inclined to find “loopholes” and work outside linear based rules. IEEs explore ideas by way of making seemingly disparate connections and SEEs take concrete, decisive action buttressed by their will. Most of the Ne/intuitive connections don’t often originate with Sabrina, though she is often the ones putting them into play, which to me suggests SEE over IEE. It's not enough that she has ideas, because everyone does. It's the manner and frequency by which they are accessed and acted upon that matters more.
    Okay, but I don't think it's that simple with Sabrina. If anything, I presented the case for Ne because I don't think Se is quite right either. Maybe she's written like an SEE or IEE, depending. I'm not quite sure and that's the problem, just my opinion.

    Lastly, Sabrina does not communicate like an intuitive; compare her with Ambrose (EIE), who frequently speaks in metaphor and intuitive associations. Sabrina is often direct, straight forward and concrete in her speech patterns. Granted, everyone is capable of employing metaphorical speech, but intuitive types do this with a much higher frequency.
    Well...judging from my experience of a childhood friend that is IEE, he doesn't really speak in metaphors or make intuitive associations (at least not openly). He's very open-minded and usually is receptive to the underlying patterns going on around things, but doesn't mention them, unless I bring it up, and even then it's more like a passing thought that he doesn't put much stock in. It's more fuel for him chasing an opportunity.

    But I don't know. I might be wrong, but I'm not convinced, but you've brought up some interesting points. Maybe when the show comes back I'll watch it with this in mind.
    Last edited by Protozoa; 02-09-2020 at 04:24 PM.
    previously Megadoodoo

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    Quote Originally Posted by bouncingoffclouds View Post
    Sometimes I see hints at ESI for Zelda still, but I've seen more hints toward beta it feels like. Maybe she's LSI???? Dang there was something I caught onto that really helped build a decent case for beta, can't remember it now, lol. She does always get very annoyed by her sister though
    I kind of thought she valued Ti as well. Not sure on type, but it seems to be there somewhere. This is kind of what I mean


    Saying things like
    "no-one in their right mind"
    "selfish"
    "so you're a thief, as well as a murderer" "You killed a witch, didn't you?" (As if she doesn't kill her sister numerous times without it being a big deal...)
    *After Sabrina explaining witches killed people and she was trying to make it right - "All you did was make things worse."

    She's very umm, histrionic. Getting hysterical about it all when she's not really seeing Sabrina objectively. Somehow what Sabrina does is just all about Zelda. Like wth? And then the cold shoulder about not coming back to her for help when it doesn't go her way. And she calls Sabrina selfish?

    I don't really like her character. She just rationalizes the actions of Sabrina to how it effects her personally -> Ti backing up Fe. She analyzes everything and acts according to that, like she has no personal feelings about anything. And she's just not great at listening to other people or being sensitive to their feelings about things -> Fi; she ignored Hilda when Hilda was trying to tell her she was turning into a spider monster, making everything about her (Zelda) instead. I want to take her cigarette stick and slap her with it.

    So I see it anyway.
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    Yeah, I'm not sure, it's hard to say, I think xSI in any regard, but I've been leaning toward beta (although I kind of like the idea of Zelda- ESI, High Priest- LIE ), I see what you mean in regards to Zelda's Ti and the emphasis on order/rules/laws. There was a scene where Ambrose spoke about the importance of order/rules/laws as well and I think he's beta NF. I find Sabrina a bit irritating by the way, lol. I don't like Zelda's line of thinking, but I actually find her less irritating

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    Quote Originally Posted by bouncingoffclouds View Post
    I find Sabrina a bit irritating by the way, lol. I don't like Zelda's line of thinking, but I actually find her less irritating

    I see.
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    *jots down bouncingoffclouds*
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    Lmao, I’m in the last season and she’s less irritating and Zelda is going more off the chain. It’s a good season! Having 2nd thoughts on Ambrose’s type. Any thoughts there? He’s probably one of my more favorite characters. Also low-key enjoy some of the singing bits. The part with Hilda speaking while they were doing the moonbath made me smile too, slightly reminded me of my mom when I’ve seen her do speaking/teaching.

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    Also there were a couple scenes that solidified Ne vulnerable for Zelda for me. One was with Mambo Marie speaking of Zelda’s fear of the unknown and basically stubbornness to change/accept new ideas. Also, probably not related to Ne vulnerable, but a scene discussing how Zelda doesn’t trust strangers.

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