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Thread: SLE males and prison

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    Default SLE males and prison

    In your real life experience, how often do u see this stereotype? 'lol SLE Prison Chad' Like young males age 18-45 and are SLE, how often do u see them in prison? With a harsh LSE judge just laying the law down to them?

    To me this is very common. With SLE males, not SLE females though. SLE females to me often have the opposite problem in a way. Their Fi polr makes them kinda over the top good and very concerned with ethics and following the morality of The Laws. (though I do know a SLE female that has a criminal record for stealing) And the stereotype of girls being goody two shoes that get As and listen to teachers/most authority and males throwing spitballs in ur hair.

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    OK, @BandD, statistics time.

    I know five male SLE's.

    DM is ex-Air Force, now works odd jobs.
    LD has a job, although he's not confident about it.
    TT is gay and has a PhD and an MBA and he is confident about his job.
    R? is a gay art college student. No job yet.
    MW did ten years in Jackson for armed robbery, and now has a job.

    One of five fit the stereotype, although I'm surprised it's not 2/5.

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    More LSIs than SLEs I would say.

    Base function is usually more conventional in usage.

    From Grigory Reinin profile on LSI (source).

    Function #-4 – subjective ethics (Fi): my attitude to people is the zone of fears. It is impossible to hear this type confessing their love or any other feeling. He will sooner do something than talk: he will take a girl out, give her flowers or jewellery, but he will not talk about his feelings. In situations when expression of feelings is necessary, a Maxim is tense, it seems his mind is some place else. His opinion he expresses impersonally or indirectly, but clearly. Often he runs into communication problems because most types need verbal communication to understand another person, otherwise they just do not see what you see. The unsaid does not count. I appreciate the flowers you gave me and the romantic dinners you took me to! But I need to hear what you think and feel about me!

    Why people of this type often join criminal agencies (mercenary units or other social clubs with rigid structure)? There might be two reasons for this: “Here I feel comfortable, I accept the hierarchy and the principles of the agency” and “I am valued and respected here, so this place is good” (positive feedback according to the fourth function). Besides, here the LSI has an outlet for his love for manipulations with objects (realization of the creative function). The logic of the objective world is ignored (in this case it can be the law, the criminal code, or traffic rules). He is seeking for inner peace and consistency. Maxim's peculiar creativity combined with disobedience to the law and his desire to be in “good” company may pave a way to a criminal future.

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    lmao @Adam Strange

    yeah about the last one, the SLE I like is doing 10 years for armed robbery too! He might get out on parole this fall tho.

    I guess I do know another SLE male, who got in trouble with authorities before- but he got a job in construction at a young age and made good money. He ended up being kind of really well liked by the Delta community ppl in a sense (I think cuz he was one of their pet projects that 'they saved' maybe?) and he seemed to really clean up his act. Idk what he's doing now tho that was a long time ago. and I didn't know him super well either.

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    Also, just to clairfy as to what Renin sees as the ignoring function of an LSI would look like.

    Quote Originally Posted by LSI profile
    Function #-1 – objective logic (Te): the world is the way I see it, everything else I ignore. Real circumstances can be perceived simply as annoying obstacles. If I study, I simply listen to what a teacher says, and my understanding does not differ from the teacher’s; this is my school. In any case it is a fixed set of ideas about the world, certain standard picture. Sometimes real-world notions like visas, traffic rules, criminal code and other social realities may fall in the zone of ignoring. This may cause 'unexpected' problems, even imprisonment. The society does not care take into consideration neither your unique interpretation of the established law nor your type of information metabolism.
    And in contrast LII's ignoring function.

    Quote Originally Posted by LII profile
    Function #-1 – objective logic (Te): the zone of ignoring. “The world is the way I see it. If you have evidence that it’s not the way I see it, too bad for the world. Anyway it is not my business; just keep your opinion to yourself. I think the world should be exactly how I see it”. Often these people live in the world of their imagination. The laws of a society put their own value on people and their actions. They set measures and standards for people to follow. Any society has a gap of some sort. People evaluate you according to certain standards. At one extreme if you do not meet the standards you are isolated. At the other extreme you get paid for not meeting the standards because you are useful for the same society. By the way, in this gap various spiritual teachings flourish. But this is another story.
    Meanwhile SLEs.

    Quote Originally Posted by SLE profile
    Function #-2 – objective logic (Te): the logic of the external world is in the zone of standards. This type picks out the laws that they follow automatically, without a hint of creativity. In this area a Zhukov does not like to waste time on decision-making.
    I don't know if I agree with this at all, but I think it's an interesting take. I haven't seen it discussed elsewhere. I wish he wrote more on it.

    I did have an interest and engage in hacking at some point in my life before finishing my IT degree.

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    @COOL AND MANLY

    That's an interesting theory but the SLE I know IRL who I type SLE followed the typical dual pattern that for 3 years we found the other 'boring' and kinda blah then really seemed to warm up to each other and become duality bros.

    With activity partners, male or female- the activity feels much more 'immediate.' With duality it grows more slowly over time. Or in nerdy rpg talk, activity is getting spot healed/quick burst healing and duality is HoTs lol. Or burst healing that requires more set up first.

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    I wasn't saying your typing is incorrect. I can see now why you would think that though.

    I'm just saying SLEs are less likely to be convicted than LSIs. But they could very well be up there as well. I'm pretty sure all types can be found in prison.

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    Well I also think an introverted logical person might have a bad time manipulating law enforcement personnel compared to an extroverted logic person. That combination seems like it would be the worst at getting caught, as society is already naturally more suspicious of introverts anyway in a sense I think, and so introverted + male + logical = kinda fucked, if you get caught in the interrogation room?

    I know a bad boy SLE (another one not the guy I was talking about earlier), he is always one step ahead of the law because he is good at smooth talking them and telling them what they want to hear. And a lot of real life cops/law enforcement personnel aren't bad-asses like on the TV shows. They are actually really gullible and susceptible to this kind of manipulation. Certain type of feelers... would be able to do it them as well. At least half-way kind of good. But introverted + logic seems like it would be the most stunted in this sense. so yea maybe there's something to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    OK, @BandD, statistics time.

    I know five male SLE's.

    DM is ex-Air Force, now works odd jobs.
    LD has a job, although he's not confident about it.
    TT is gay and has a PhD and an MBA and he is confident about his job.
    R? is a gay art college student. No job yet.
    MW did ten years in Jackson for armed robbery, and now has a job.

    One of five fit the stereotype, although I'm surprised it's not 2/5.
    You never noticed that DM, LD and MW are gays too? They are, they just haven't left the closet yet ;-)
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    ... not SLE females though...
    Jung's concepts on Animus/Anima apply here. The average SLE woman also is into BPD-style boundary crossing behaviors, but indeed they do not end up in prison, but in gang bang porn movies, where they let the guys do things to them no other type would. I could post a few of such videos to make a case, but that would be NSFW.

    Whenever I see a video of an SLE woman being gang banged, I'm overcome by this great feeling of injustice, a feeling that I do not have with other types being gang banged, I coudn't care less in those cases, some of them even deserve it. Might I be IEI after all? ;-)
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    The average SLE woman also is into BPD-style boundary crossing behaviors, but indeed they do not end up in prison, but in gang bang porn movies, where they let the guys do things to them no other type would. I could post a few of such videos to make a case, but that would be NSFW.
    One size fits all, eh?



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    Gulenko has written that low level Ni (and this does not exclude Ni egos) have some sort inclination towards criminality in thought. For example IEI's can think like eye for an eye and this when realized is criminal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    You never noticed that DM, LD and MW are gays too? They are, they just haven't left the closet yet ;-)
    DM has had several GF's, LD is a pussy hound, and MW hates gays. Believe me, none of them are in the closet, except TT, who kind of sidesteps the question of his sexuality but is definitely gay. I could state my reasons for saying so, but I doubt if they matter.

    Here is the thing. SLE is a very masculine personality type, and what most people don't understand about gay males is that they are actually MORE male than straight males. They were soaked in testosterone in the womb and it affected them.

    A couple of facts: In a long string of male siblings, the youngest is most likely to be gay, because the mother's body gets better at producing testosterone with each successive child. The length of the index finger of gay males is shorter than the ring finger, in relation to most males in the population, and this occurs when the fetus is exposed to higher testosterone levels.

    So I would expect men with very masculine personality types to be more likely to be gay than the average male. And I only mentioned the sexual orientation of the SLE's I know because I feel like @BandD should know that he has a slightly better than average chance of finding a gay dual than most people. I'm all too well aware of how narrowing preferences reduces the number of potential partners.

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    Hi my SLE brother is in prison hi hi

    I know its silly of me to insist he's a good guy, but I'll be silly. It was cuz he was an addict and the drugs contributed to poor decision making. (Which could happen to any type who experiences childhood trauma and is therefore predisposed to alternative coping styles.) He's still a goofball who flaps his ADHD hands while playing league of legends, in my mind.

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    SLE is a very masculine personality type, and what most people don't understand about gay males is that they are actually MORE male than straight males. They were soaked in testosterone in the womb and it affected them.
    Hitta told me that before. It's an interesting theory. Growing up I did know a few gay males that were incredibly masculine. This dude I knew growing up was so fucking homoerotic and masculine and liked other boys- although he was so male he did sorta have that gay male campiness as well tho. He also had like a ten inch dick it was pretty amazing. Sorry, where was I? Oh yeah.

    I don't really feel that masculine myself. I felt if I was more masculine, I would like sports and guns and fixing cars and beer and Breaking Bad and The Wire and Game of Thrones and I just don't really like those things. =/ (I still need to see some episodes of the wire though) Though I'm sure objectively speaking those are well written shows.

    I don't feel feminine either. I tried doing drag and being more womanly once just out of curiosity and it felt wrong. I'm more like Mr. Garrison on Southpark, an in the middle teacher that likes to be provocative. Before Mr. Garrison decided to transition lol that was weird to me. I don't have anything against trans people but I wonder sometimes how many of them do it because they're really super jealous of heterosexuality and just can't make it as an effeminate gay male. It doesn't help that masculine gays can be so cruel and horrible to the feminine ones ugh. =/ It's little wonder why they think they'd have an easier time being a straight woman.

    I think some gay men are super masculine but some aren't, that's what makes two gay males able to be compatible with each other and fall in love-lust just like straight people. Otherwise it wouldn't work but it DOES work because of that. If you go to any gay chat room u will find dudes that have a really faggy/feminine voice and other guys who sound more male than most straight guys u know. I'm more in the middle so I also want a guy in the middle since that would be the most compatible for me, I think. My sister is super ultra feminine and likes super ultra masculine guys. My mom is more masculine and likes gentle feminine guys.
    Last edited by BandD; 01-22-2020 at 02:10 PM.

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    Just think about running subjectively ahead... that is Ni. LOL but when it ends up in prison it is pretty badly executed.


    Running objectively ahead: Ne aka relying external working vision of everything it starts to become nitpick LSE-like behavior.
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    You know how many gang leaders are probably SLE. And of course this fits for them because they can make their own rules and usually the rule is the strongest and biggest makes the rules. Yes I've seen this stereotype, and sadly I don't think it's just a stereotype. Take someone who is shoot first ask questions later, doesn't care much for the outcome, goes by their own rules, doesn't take no for answer. Throw them in a situation with no guidance and put them in the streets. They will become a gang leader. I'm mostly talking about type 8 Se dom here. But yea in a vaccum type 8 Se dom will be a leader of some mob of men going by a set of rules they decide for whatever occasion. When you find that out in the streets that's called a gang leader.



    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post

    Here is the thing. SLE is a very masculine personality type, and what most people don't understand about gay males is that they are actually MORE male than straight males. They were soaked in testosterone in the womb and it affected them.

    A couple of facts: In a long string of male siblings, the youngest is most likely to be gay, because the mother's body gets better at producing testosterone with each successive child. The length of the index finger of gay males is shorter than the ring finger, in relation to most males in the population, and this occurs when the fetus is exposed to higher testosterone levels.

    .
    Wtf? This can't be real lol.
    Last edited by Lord Pixel; 01-25-2020 at 04:51 AM.

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    @Lord Pixel

    It is thought to be a thing, actually. Not sure how rigorous the data is, but I can see where the idea might have come from. Anyway. The organization of this paper pisses me off, but... oh well.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3296090/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Here is the thing. SLE is a very masculine personality type, and what most people don't understand about gay males is that they are actually MORE male than straight males. They were soaked in testosterone in the womb and it affected them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    Wtf? This can't be real lol.
    It is totally real. You can google it. @remiges beat me to it, though.

    I am not actually the oldest kid in my family. My mother was pregnant before me with a boy, but miscarried, so technically, I'm the second boy. My testosterone levels must be pretty high because I build muscle fast (I'm stronger than all but one of the guys I work with, and some are 20 years younger than I am) and I've been losing my hair for a while (which is partly hereditary and partly due to high testosterone) and I tested on a quiz on this site as 98% or 100% male, something like that. And my index finger is about a finger's width shorter than my ring finger.
    I'm not gay, or even bi, and I really like women, but it might have been a close thing.....

    I do prefer women who look kind of like tomboys; slender, small breasts, short hair, active and ready for fun but introverted. When I see a woman like that, I think "Possible. I want to know you better." I have never shared most men's fascination for large breasts on women. (You know, when the woman is lying on her back, super large breasts go sideways.)
    None of my GF's have been frilly or girlish. They've all had kind of a hint of maleness about them.


    My particular sexual orientation isn't towards men, but rather comes out as wanting a strong, independent woman who has a core of steel but who eventually submits. Or at least, doesn't run away and pretends to submit. Which, when you think about it, indicates that she's actually strong and is the one doing the deciding.
    OK, TMI, probably.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 01-25-2020 at 04:23 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    It is totally real. You can google it.

    I am not actually the oldest kid in my family. My mother was pregnant before me with a boy, but miscarried, so technically, I'm the second boy. My testosterone levels must be pretty high because I build muscle fast (I'm stronger than all but one of the guys I work with, and some are 20 years younger than I am) and I've been losing my hair for a while (which is partly hereditary and partly due to high testosterone) and I tested on a quiz on this site as 98% or 100% male, something like that. And my index finger is about a finger's width shorter than my ring finger.
    I'm not gay, or even bi, and I really like women, but it might have been a close thing.....

    I do prefer women who look kind of like tomboys; slender, small breasts, short hair, active and ready for fun but introverted. When I see a woman like that, I think "Possible. I want to know you better." I have never shared most men's fascination for large breasts on women. (You know, when the woman is lying on her back, super large breasts go sideways.)
    None of my GF's have been frilly or girlish. They've all had kind of a hint of maleness about them.
    I find it hilarious being drowned in testosterone could make you gay. Like who would have thought that lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    I find it hilarious being drowned in testosterone could make you gay. Like who would have thought that lol.
    It does seem weird if you think of gay males as being frilly and stuff, like RuPaul. But if you look at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUoO4T_23pA, you see the other side. I wanna know where the guy in leather bought his jacket.


    This is a look I could support: https://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server4...80.500.jpg?c=2
    If I could ride a motorcycle without bleeding, that is, which I cannot.

    Anyway, you can think of it this way. (WARNING!! NON-PC BIAS COMING, definitely stereotypes, but I'm trying to make a point here) Two lesbians are going to looooove each other forever. Just each other.
    A man and a woman are going to love each other, but there's a good chance that the guy will cheat sometime in the relationship. I think it's like 50%. Maybe.
    But a gay male will screw a knothole in a fence. He is MORE MALE than a straight male, especially if you think of behavior as being on a continuum.

    OK, I'm ready for the flak now. Lol.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 01-25-2020 at 04:20 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    It does seem weird if you think of gay males as being frilly and stuff, like RuPaul. But if you look at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUoO4T_23pA, you see the other side. I wanna know where the guy in leather bought his jacket.

    Think of it this way. (WARNING!! NON-PC BIAS COMING, definitely stereotypes, but I'm trying to make a point here) Two lesbians are going to looooove each other forever. Just each other.
    A man and a woman are going to love each other, but there's a good chance that the guy will cheat sometime in the relationship. I think it's like 50%. Maybe.
    But a gay male will screw a knothole in a fence. He is MORE MALE than a straight male.

    OK, I'm ready for the flak now. Lol.
    Wtf. Point made loud and clear.

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    ROFLMAO Adam Strange you are so cringe worthy in an adorably bad B-fest movie kinda way. Yes dear, because posting a Village People video is excellent proof of a masculine, red-blooded gay guy.

    Did you even listen to the Fi seriousness that my previous post was trying to convey or was it all HEHEHEHEHE I LOVE GAY IEIs CUZ THEY ARE GAY! <3

    The tldr version: Some gay men are very masculine. Some gay men are very feminine. Some are half-breeds. Like 'duh' right?

    Straight men are probably more masculine most of the time, like if you did it a comparison ratio thing or whatever. And if they aren't- they can be way cattier, campier and bitchier than any gay guy lol it's like daaaayum.

    Supposedly Josh Peck is 100% heterosexual. Decide for yourself:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJTGpZNVKJA

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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    ROFLMAO Adam Strange you are so cringe worthy in an adorably bad B-fest movie kinda way. Yes dear, because posting a Village People video is excellent proof of a masculine, red-blooded gay guy.

    Did you even listen to the Fi seriousness that my previous post was trying to convey or was it all HEHEHEHEHE I LOVE GAY IEIs CUZ THEY ARE GAY! <3

    The tldr version: Some gay men are very masculine. Some gay men are very feminine. Some are half-breeds. Like 'duh' right?

    Straight men are probably more masculine most of the time, like if you did it a comparison ratio thing or whatever. And if they aren't- they can be way cattier, campier and bitchier than any gay guy lol it's like daaaayum.

    Supposedly Josh Peck is 100% heterosexual. Decide for yourself:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJTGpZNVKJA
    Hey, BandD, I know my post was cringe-worthy. Thank god the world is getting better.

    Yeah, Peck looks hetero to me, but I also know you can't tell by looking. I worked with a male ESI for six years before I figured out he was gay. Yes, he'd never show any interest in my suggestions that he find a nice LIE girl and settle down, but I though he was just shy. >_<. Best guy in the world, incidentally.

    PS.
    I don't love or not love IEI's because they are gay. I think being born gay is a lot like being born Armenian. It has its pluses and minuses, but both groups are made up of ordinary people.
    My cartoonish analogy was just a shorthand way to imagine the continuum of behavior that various testosterone levels can produce. For the real thing, read the paper that remiges linked. It's much better.

    I'm sorry if my comparison was crude and stupid. I tend to use Te and I just pick up whatever I find lying around (including stereotypes), to use for something I need it for, regardless of its Ti factuality.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 01-25-2020 at 05:15 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    ROFLMAO Adam Strange you are so cringe worthy in an adorably bad B-fest movie kinda way. Yes dear, because posting a Village People video is excellent proof of a masculine, red-blooded gay guy.

    Did you even listen to the Fi seriousness that my previous post was trying to convey or was it all HEHEHEHEHE I LOVE GAY IEIs CUZ THEY ARE GAY! <3

    The tldr version: Some gay men are very masculine. Some gay men are very feminine. Some are half-breeds. Like 'duh' right?

    Straight men are probably more masculine most of the time, like if you did it a comparison ratio thing or whatever. And if they aren't- they can be way cattier, campier and bitchier than any gay guy lol it's like daaaayum.

    Supposedly Josh Peck is 100% heterosexual. Decide for yourself:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJTGpZNVKJA
    Idk what campy means, but if you mean like he sounds girly or something than yea he does.
    But he made a really cringey movie about being with some girl.

    But I've met dudes on first impression I thought they were gay because of how they sound, and even how they move and I was wrong, so idk if that works anymore as a sign.

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    When I was still a teenager I had an adult SLE male coworker who was an ex-convict for homicide under the influence of drugs. I was mixing drinks and serving alcohol technically underage at that job too. My gay male IEI childhood friend who I was luckily working with (<3) found the SLE guy a bit scary. This SLE coworker yelled at me once. But then we hugged after. <3 I found him more annoying than scary. He seemed to have anger issues... I had another SLE adult male coworker at that job with some anger and compulsive lying issues too.

    Another SLE guy who was obsessed with guns and had really bad body odor in my highschool threw a chair at the nicest IEI science teacher ever and got suspended.

    Other SLE adult males I’ve known have been much campier than these guys. So Adam’s ratio of 1/5 is probably about right.
    Last edited by sbbds; 01-31-2020 at 01:54 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    A couple of facts: In a long string of male siblings, the youngest is most likely to be gay, because the mother's body gets better at producing testosterone with each successive child. The length of the index finger of gay males is shorter than the ring finger, in relation to most males in the population, and this occurs when the fetus is exposed to higher testosterone levels.
    Where did you hear this, especially the bolded? I learned the opposite in one of my classes in university, that it’s because the mother’s body gets more resistant to increases in testosterone over time.

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    I worked in a forensic unit at a psych hospital and there are at least a couple of clear SLE I can recall

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Where did you hear this, especially the bolded? I learned the opposite in one of my classes in university, that it’s because the mother’s body gets more resistant to increases in testosterone over time.
    https://www.pnas.org/content/115/2/234

    Hmmm, seems we were both right, but I had the reason wrong.

    Bogaert and Skorska concluded that the most plausible explanation was based on a progressive immunization of the mother bearing male embryos against a male antigen; antibodies would accumulate over successive pregnancies and increasingly interfere with the development of the embryonic brain of subsequent sons.


    Naturally, the explanation can be found in PNAS magazine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    https://www.pnas.org/content/115/2/234

    Hmmm, seems we were both right, but I had the reason wrong.

    Naturally, the explanation can be found in PNAS magazine.
    Cool, thanks Adam. Yeah, I heard from my instructor that it was about something like that, possibly male-linked proteins. I remembered it wrong as testosterone too maybe. So it’s not testosterone itself, at least that’s clear. Testosterone isn’t even a protein anyway.

    He never gave us the actual article title so I never saw it. Now I have it! Thanks.

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    I don't know why I start to giggle whenever I see the title of this thread.
    "Time is my horse that stays always my own,
    A helmet’s mask-visor – the grate on a hole,
    The walls are my armor that’s made of the stone,
    My permanent shield is the door’s iron fold.

    Time! I desire to speed your hooves’ rattle!
    My stony armor is heavy to rise on!
    Death, when we’ve come, will help me by the saddle;
    I will dismount and rise up my visor."
    Mikhail Lermontov



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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    I find it hilarious being drowned in testosterone could make you gay. Like who would have thought that lol.
    i found that an odd theory as well but then again it could be that high T levels do not make people gay but.........pansexual. As in more likely to have the polymorphously perverse sexuality closer too their conscious. Getting easily stirred having fewer filters, being innocent.
    honest labor needs no master

    Nothing good is a miracle, nothing lovely is a dream.

    Επί πάντων μέμνησο τα έσχατά σου, και ου μη αμαρτήσης

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    I'm gay and the oldest child so its like, your evolutionary behavioural theory is not applicable. Same with plenty of behavioural psychological theories tied with evolutionary principles, which are falling out of vogue.

    As far as men with free testosterone, its a mixed bag. Lot's of gym rats are bisexual as fuck. It has something to do with confidence combined with a need for positive attention.

    Just as many, if not more are straight as hell. There are no underlying generalities here. When you are the most 'T' up one in the room labels start to fade away.


    This is low Fi, high Fe and Se in a nutshell ->
    Getting easily stirred having fewer filters, being innocent.
    Quote attributed to kali.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    https://www.pnas.org/content/115/2/234

    Hmmm, seems we were both right, but I had the reason wrong.

    Bogaert and Skorska concluded that the most plausible explanation was based on a progressive immunization of the mother bearing male embryos against a male antigen; antibodies would accumulate over successive pregnancies and increasingly interfere with the development of the embryonic brain of subsequent sons.


    Naturally, the explanation can be found in PNAS magazine.
    So explain away homosexual birds, or other mammals.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by timber View Post
    I'm gay and the oldest child so its like, your evolutionary behavioural theory is not applicable. Same with plenty of behavioural psychological theories tied with evolutionary principles, which are falling out of vogue.

    As far as men with free testosterone, its a mixed bag. Lot's of gym rats are bisexual as fuck. It has something to do with confidence combined with a need for positive attention.

    Just as many, if not more are straight as hell. There are no underlying generalities here. When you are the most 'T' up one in the room labels start to fade away.


    This is low Fi, high Fe and Se in a nutshell ->

    Quote attributed to kali.
    It’s not behavioral psychology lol it’s biology.

    And it’s not testosterone that’s the culprit either, apparently.

    The article says this covers ~30% of cases. That’s considered a major trend, but doesn’t even account for half of the cases, so chill out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    It’s not behavioral psychology lol it’s biology.

    And it’s not testosterone that’s the culprit either, apparently.

    The article says this covers ~30% of cases. That’s considered a major trend, but doesn’t even account for half of the cases, so chill out.
    Evolutionary biology and behavioural psychology have been bed fellows for decades. AKA: your genes make you behave x way. Its form of scientific material reductionism and branch of atheism. We are just chemicals acting out of a machine without purpose, meaning, direction, all occurring by chance in a cold empty universe. Our intelligence is simply a function of our large brains that mysteriously evolved to fill and niche and now we are destroying our habitat and headed for annihilation. All altruism is a by-product of tit-for tat principles and spirituality is a collateral ghost, something to be overcome by rationality and logic. The superstitious are weak minded and the Third-person objective narrator is the only one to be trusted as real.

    Fun isn't it? This is the new modality for present modern cosmology.

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    Quote Originally Posted by timber View Post
    Evolutionary biology and behavioural psychology have been bed fellows for decades. AKA: your genes make you behave x way. Its form of scientific material reductionism and branch of atheism. We are just chemicals acting out of a machine without purpose, meaning, direction, all occurring by chance in a cold empty universe. Our intelligence is simply a function of our large brains that mysteriously evolved to fill and niche and now we are destroying our habitat and headed for annihilation. All altruism is a by-product of tit-for tat principles and spirituality is a collateral ghost, something to be overcome by rationality and logic. The superstitious are weak minded and the Third-person objective narrator is the only one to be trusted as real.

    Fun isn't it? This is the new modality for present modern cosmology.
    What is your point then? Do you think aliens or your third eye make you gay?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    What is your point then? Do you think aliens or your third eye make you gay?

    Its just because I can be. Maybe even a malfunctioning unit. This is the inherent conclusion of genes controlling behaviour. Unless you can come up with the positive versions, like Gay uncle theory or some other primitive behavioural psychology assumption that sounds neato in computer simulations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by timber View Post
    Its just because I can be. Maybe even a malfunctioning unit. This is the inherent conclusion of genes controlling behaviour. Unless you can come up with the positive versions, like Gay uncle theory or some other primitive behavioural psychology assumption that sounds neato in computer simulations.
    What you’re proposing is that it’s just random then, right? That’s great and all, but also too bad because science has reported at least one clear trend here, in that article, where it’s not just random. You can’t turn your nose up to the facts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    DM has had several GF's, LD is a pussy hound, and MW hates gays. Believe me, none of them are in the closet, except TT, who kind of sidesteps the question of his sexuality but is definitely gay. I could state my reasons for saying so, but I doubt if they matter.
    Here is the thing. SLE is a very masculine personality type, and what most people don't understand about gay males is that they are actually MORE male than straight males. They were soaked in testosterone in the womb and it affected them.
    SLE seem pretty feminine to me, especially the logical subtype, even if they're women who say they're androgynous, they have a hard time convincing me that they seem masculine. Some do act misogynist, but their movements, demeanor, laughing, and logic and calmness and emotional self control seem more feminine to me. They're not as feminine as ILE-Ti, but they're not all that masculine either. You seem to go by stereotypes too much.

    A couple of facts: In a long string of male siblings, the youngest is most likely to be gay, because the mother's body gets better at producing testosterone with each successive child. The length of the index finger of gay males is shorter than the ring finger, in relation to most males in the population, and this occurs when the fetus is exposed to higher testosterone levels.
    Even if that correlation exists, it's not very high. Also, I have an ILE-Ti cousin who has an EIE-Ni older half-brother and an EIE-Ni younger sister (not 100% sure who her biological father is, their mother, EIE-Ni, is my cousin and she is unusually open about sexuality for an EIE-Ni female especially her age, but she was diagnosed with NPD, HPD also seems to fit her), he was WAY more feminine than both of his EIE siblings. He's pretty indirect (i.e., he wraps his criticisms in satire, jokes), and his imaginative interests are way more feminine. Also, his usage of Si also makes him seem more feminine, the other two look more masculine (to me) also because they aren't as good with Si as he is. He was also always way less aggressive (although I don't consider low aggression masculine) and less envious (I do consider envy masculine) than his EIE-Ni siblings. He followed rules and discipline a lot better than his EIE-Ni siblings, he took accountability for his actions a lot more. So his ability to follow logical rules also is feminine (to me).

    So I would expect men with very masculine personality types to be more likely to be gay than the average male. And I only mentioned the sexual orientation of the SLE's I know because I feel like @BandD should know that he has a slightly better than average chance of finding a gay dual than most people. I'm all too well aware of how narrowing preferences reduces the number of potential partners.
    ILE-Ti are usually far from masculine and are likely to be gay, but with ILE-Ti it's a choice (they're really bisexual) though maybe with other types too. Nothing wrong with being gay (I scored a 2 on the Kinsey scale) though I thought everyone in the LGBTQIA+ movement were kind of acting like assholes before the decision that legalized gay marriage was implemented. They thought they were being so iconoclastic and revolutionary and original and open-minded when they weren't really being any of those things.. They were being aggressive, not really going against social norms and not original and not unusual. I support their right to marry, but I don't support any right for anyone to be free from private discrimination.

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