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Thread: What things does EII do which might upset an LSE

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    Default What things does EII do which might upset an LSE

    Mostly i just want broad feedback, so am casting a wide net. Name or list (or spout, even!) anything that could be specific to an EII and which LSE does not take well. Thank you.

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    On one end of the scale, some have been known to preach excessively in holier-than-thou ways while on the other end, some go deathly silent under moody palls - and many seem to do both to achieve different effects.......

    a.k.a. I/O

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    LSEs don't seem to like it when EIIs try to operate with Se or Ti, which can happen if an EII feels stressed or has been trained to use them. It seems to tend to come across like an insult for whatever reasons and they can react aggressively.

    For example, a little while ago a LSE was helping me gather things when I was in a rush. They picked up a little ice chest that I was going to use to pack some food and almost put it on the table. The ice chest had been on the ground lots of places and I didn't want it on the clean table top. The LSE was moving quickly so I didn't have time to say, "Please don't put that there," so as the chest was almost on the table I put my hand in the way and pushed it back aside a little. The LSE made a funny face, said, "Oh," and then put it on the floor.

    Later, it came out that the LSE was very bothered by that and interpreted it as me being nearly violent, definitely using too much physical force. From my perspective, that physical motion was my only choice if I wanted to keep the table clean, and according to my recollection the push was not very hard. However, it's entirely possible it was harder than it needed to be; often I have a hard time gauging that type of thing. The LSE, however, has a very good sense for that and interpreted my misjudgment as a personal offense.

    Another example, in a general sense, is if/when I try to argue logically with an LSE. Particularly if they are of a higher intelligence / confidence, they lock up their defenses and will stubbornly argue back, often overwhelming me with their own logics. I find it very hard to "win" in such a situation, even if I'm convinced at my core that I'm right. They have their own competence in the "if A then B" sorts of trains, but then add in a bunch of grounded facts, which they tend to be more confident in than I am. And if they are convinced of the morality of something, heaven help you if you try to sway them, particularly head on (though they are definitely less confident underneath about morality, and that can create cracks that bear fruit later).

    They also don't like outbursts of emotion, especially if they themselves have worked hard on their own predilections toward flares.

    Critique on timing of things makes them really uncomfortable. They get kind of squishy, if that makes sense at all. So, for example, often I'll be communicating with them about things that need to be done and there will be some natural deadlines and more often than not the LSEs will cram the time with more than will be accomplished, and unless I'm delicate about how I approach what I see as an impending disaster they can get a bit bent out of shape. (The best way I've found to deal with that is to strategically bring up the problematic "what if"s and let them come to their own conclusions that they don't have enough time.) I've had to learn and practice that, though, because a lot of the time these things seem so obvious to me that I just blurt it out.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    On one end of the scale, some have been known to preach excessively in holier-than-thou ways while on the other end, some go deathly silent under moody palls - and many seem to do both to achieve different effects.......

    a.k.a. I/O
    Hahaaaa, lol truth.

    I don't know why the latter would piss anybody off though.

    I also think telling them what to do ruffles their feathers, and acting like or knowing more about something they feel they should know more than you about also becomes uncomfortable for them? I think? Seems that way. I was recently talking about trading with my LSE friend, and just giving him some tips I heard about whats a good stock to buy and what's not, and it felt like he kept trying to make it seem like he was giving me tips or something instead of the other ay around. Idk, like he was sort of turning it around on me or trying to one up me or just changing the subject. Maybe it was a PoLR thing instead, talking about when to buy and when to sell and what will grow in the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    LSEs don't seem to like it when EIIs try to operate with Se or Ti, which can happen if an EII feels stressed or has been trained to use them. It seems to tend to come across like an insult for whatever reasons and they can react aggressively.

    For example, a little while ago a LSE was helping me gather things when I was in a rush. They picked up a little ice chest that I was going to use to pack some food and almost put it on the table. The ice chest had been on the ground lots of places and I didn't want it on the clean table top. The LSE was moving quickly so I didn't have time to say, "Please don't put that there," so as the chest was almost on the table I put my hand in the way and pushed it back aside a little. The LSE made a funny face, said, "Oh," and then put it on the floor.

    Later, it came out that the LSE was very bothered by that and interpreted it as me being nearly violent, definitely using too much physical force. From my perspective, that physical motion was my only choice if I wanted to keep the table clean, and according to my recollection the push was not very hard. However, it's entirely possible it was harder than it needed to be; often I have a hard time gauging that type of thing. The LSE, however, has a very good sense for that and interpreted my misjudgment as a personal offense.

    Another example, in a general sense, is if/when I try to argue logically with an LSE. Particularly if they are of a higher intelligence / confidence, they lock up their defenses and will stubbornly argue back, often overwhelming me with their own logics. I find it very hard to "win" in such a situation, even if I'm convinced at my core that I'm right. They have their own competence in the "if A then B" sorts of trains, but then add in a bunch of grounded facts, which they tend to be more confident in than I am. And if they are convinced of the morality of something, heaven help you if you try to sway them, particularly head on (though they are definitely less confident underneath about morality, and that can create cracks that bear fruit later).

    They also don't like outbursts of emotion, especially if they themselves have worked hard on their own predilections toward flares.

    Critique on timing of things makes them really uncomfortable. They get kind of squishy, if that makes sense at all. So, for example, often I'll be communicating with them about things that need to be done and there will be some natural deadlines and more often than not the LSEs will cram the time with more than will be accomplished, and unless I'm delicate about how I approach what I see as an impending disaster they can get a bit bent out of shape. (The best way I've found to deal with that is to strategically bring up the problematic "what if"s and let them come to their own conclusions that they don't have enough time.) I've had to learn and practice that, though, because a lot of the time these things seem so obvious to me that I just blurt it out.
    Yeah I have that same problem when I'm arguing with logical types. I know I'm right, but I can't back myself up, so I end up losing anyway lol. Some ethical types can beat me too. I've especially had issues with SEEs, of course.

    Also, good that you mentioned the possibility that LSE reacts negatively to EII because they've been trained to use Se and Ti. Wish there were more elaboration on that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    ......I don't know why the latter would piss anybody off though......
    When it's used as a form of punishment, which wouldn't phase some types but LSEs don't usually like the silent treatment.........

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Another thing I thought of is that Si types can be particular about random things, liking them to be just so. Anyone unfamiliar with them, including an EII, could bumble along and make a mess with that particular thing, upsetting the LSE.

    For example, one time I brushed my hand along a LSEs car and they shouted, "Don't touch the car!" and then noticing my surprised and disgruntled face added, "I don't want you to scratch it." It was not exactly a new car and I was not pressing very hard, but for whatever (probably logical) reason me not running my hand along it was very important to that LSE. And that's a type of thing I would just unthinkingly do.

    I think especially if an EII is being more Ne that is likely to happen. Obviously once you know someone you can avoid known annoyances, but even after knowing someone for a long time things still can come up.
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    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

    "Fear wist not to evade as Love wist to pursue." - Francis Thompson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    Yeah I have that same problem when I'm arguing with logical types. I know I'm right, but I can't back myself up, so I end up losing anyway lol. Some ethical types can beat me too. I've especially had issues with SEEs, of course.
    It can be quite frustrating, and even disheartening.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    Also, good that you mentioned the possibility that LSE reacts negatively to EII because they've been trained to use Se and Ti. Wish there were more elaboration on that.
    Elaboration from me?
    INFj / EII / FiNe
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    "Fear wist not to evade as Love wist to pursue." - Francis Thompson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    It can be quite frustrating, and even disheartening.




    Elaboration from me?
    Yeah if you wanted.

    And yeah it is frustrating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    LSEs don't seem to like it when EIIs try to operate with Se or Ti, which can happen if an EII feels stressed or has been trained to use them. It seems to tend to come across like an insult for whatever reasons and they can react aggressively.

    For example, a little while ago a LSE was helping me gather things when I was in a rush. They picked up a little ice chest that I was going to use to pack some food and almost put it on the table. The ice chest had been on the ground lots of places and I didn't want it on the clean table top. The LSE was moving quickly so I didn't have time to say, "Please don't put that there," so as the chest was almost on the table I put my hand in the way and pushed it back aside a little. The LSE made a funny face, said, "Oh," and then put it on the floor.

    Later, it came out that the LSE was very bothered by that and interpreted it as me being nearly violent, definitely using too much physical force. From my perspective, that physical motion was my only choice if I wanted to keep the table clean, and according to my recollection the push was not very hard. However, it's entirely possible it was harder than it needed to be; often I have a hard time gauging that type of thing. The LSE, however, has a very good sense for that and interpreted my misjudgment as a personal offense.

    Another example, in a general sense, is if/when I try to argue logically with an LSE. Particularly if they are of a higher intelligence / confidence, they lock up their defenses and will stubbornly argue back, often overwhelming me with their own logics. I find it very hard to "win" in such a situation, even if I'm convinced at my core that I'm right. They have their own competence in the "if A then B" sorts of trains, but then add in a bunch of grounded facts, which they tend to be more confident in than I am. And if they are convinced of the morality of something, heaven help you if you try to sway them, particularly head on (though they are definitely less confident underneath about morality, and that can create cracks that bear fruit later).

    They also don't like outbursts of emotion, especially if they themselves have worked hard on their own predilections toward flares.

    Critique on timing of things makes them really uncomfortable. They get kind of squishy, if that makes sense at all. So, for example, often I'll be communicating with them about things that need to be done and there will be some natural deadlines and more often than not the LSEs will cram the time with more than will be accomplished, and unless I'm delicate about how I approach what I see as an impending disaster they can get a bit bent out of shape. (The best way I've found to deal with that is to strategically bring up the problematic "what if"s and let them come to their own conclusions that they don't have enough time.) I've had to learn and practice that, though, because a lot of the time these things seem so obvious to me that I just blurt it out.

    This should be stickied its so true and great.

    fwiw and not that it matters, but that's a big roger that for not my duals.

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