Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
what an unusually vibrant thread.

- Poor proportional-reactions when put out of ease

It's easy for this to be combined with weak Te, so 1d Te and 1d Se together. From my perspective, it can lead to a sense of someone having very poor stability in turning a dial, often erring on too low or too high. Especially in the moment, in a rush of urgency, EII tend to either shut down or overreact if immediately pressured or having to do something -
yea. This is how it manifests mostly for me.

And of course I know what PoLR Se is like, someone busts your balls, at first it's funny haha, then after a few hundred times of you doing nothing someone says to the person' busting your balls "One day he is gonna stab you in your sleep." I've heard that a few times. Except what really happens is I just overreact, sometimes to something small, and create and awkward situation, in reality it looks like I am overreacting to something small but I'm actually reacting to a history of bad treatment that has never been reacted to up until now.
Yes not knowing how to turn the dial, the nuance, the levels in-between, the right amount to use. Se PoLR can also give way to violent fantasies in these exaggerations. I guess that's the nature of the PoLR, huge pendulum swings from "not in use" to "definitely in use".


The more mature an EII is, the less they generally take a martyr role about this. Being a pushover in this way is not a "requirement" for Se POLR, at all.
I don't think being a pushover is a requirement, I think it's an easy thing to fall into if you never use Se, like an Se PoLR would until they break and overreact. I see it almost like a symptom. People can tell me all day til the cows come home to idk develop Se, in the ways ppl say it in real life "stand up for yourself" "speak up" and all that, and that advice does not sound like some easily attainable thing like the way they say it, I can't gauge what they are asking me to do properly because it sounds like they are asking me to overreact pretty much, since the PoLR knows no nuance, knows now moderation. And if I did take their advice they would also say "whoa man relax." so damned if you do damned if you don't. When some tells me to stand up for myself the very first thought that goes through my head is " so am I supposed to punch him in the face the next time he does that?" That is the very first thought in my head, not.....whatever the person actually means. I literally think about the most extreme, easy and without a doubt way to stop whatever bad behavior the person is doing to me. Of course I never act on it thought, but it's something that would most definitely work. I guess I think of something their "Se" cannot compete with. If they are knocked unconscious the person cannot "Se" me back.

This description is pretty spot on with how Se PoLR can contribute to being a push over

he is not prepared for others' active resistance or refusal to do as he says. In his mind, this would require him to put aside reason and good feelings and simply make the other person do what is necessary. This is extremely difficult, if not impossible, for him to do.
So you sit there and try and convince ppl instead of asserting your will/desire, whatever on them. The manipulation I was talking about earlier.
I'm pretty sure I've said something similar to that in this thread, something along the lines of "if I yell at someone, what do I do if they yell back? if I fight what do I do if they fight back." This is essentially the struggle when contemplating asserting yourself/your will, there is a fear that the other person can pretty much override your assertion and there's not much you can do about it, You are conscious of your weak "Se" in those moments and don't want to pit it up against another person's Se, because they can just knock over your little Se and this description is a good example of what happens.


If these strategies fail, his efforts at dealing with the resulting conflict make him look actively pushy in a way that appears awkward and unnatural to others. This opens him up to painful criticism and feelings of weakness and helplessness.
words like bitch, pussy, punk are common ways this manifests. You feel helpless because Se does not feel like something you have control over to improve or master in your life, like an permanent struggle and you feel doomed to be defined by those words. My guess is everybodies PoLR feels that way some how, like you are doomed to be defined by the lack of it or something.


There was only one time in my life where I saw "growth" from the inability to assert myself and tell people what to do thing.
It was when I worked as an instructor at a summer camp. I had to run a class of kids. I was very terrified of some kid talking back to me and not doing what I said, pretty much fearing I would get out "Se'd" by some kid and be humiliated as an adult. The first week I was a pretty nerve racked instructor. But after the fourth week, I magically became assertive, and I could only attribute it to experience and knowing what had to be done whether the kids liked it or not. Only because I was focused on the task that needed to be done, and not the kids respect for me, was I able to assert myself and use the right amount of big boy voice to get them to do what I said without being overly awkward and bossy. So idk, experience and probably some Te objectivity - being more task focused and less personally focused. And tbh I never thought I could be like that. And I definitely never fathomed I could talk to someone like that and they not get angry and yell at me back and actually do what I say.