Last edited by hag; 04-11-2020 at 03:12 AM.
can be cool when healthy, but too judgmental and depressing overal
stupid lol. No but srsly. I lived with a supervisee for the past year and my God, ranting on this site about them helped keep me sane tbh.
visee: frustrating, competent yet incompetent (ILE)
They can know alot about things,s be real insightful into things and see things not many other people see, even find better ways to do something, but sometimes they can say or do the dumbest things and it;s like "you're too smart to be that dumb" sometimes.
A good example, ILE friend can tell you all about best social media marketing practices, remember complex football and basketball player stats, and debate a point for hours.
One day we go into a grocery store, see a clerk giving out free food samples, ILE takes one look at the box of food that's being sampled and says "Ew! Is that cat food!? I don't want to try cat food!"......I ask "Why would they be giving out cat food samples to people?" ....awkward silence *feels dumb*.
here's a funny quote " The whole island is surrounded by water!"
Also when their jokes are weapons, they don't realize it, until it's too late, then they forget.
visor: pushy, incompetent yet competent (SEE)
I don't have much experience with this type, but I notice they can be alittle more assertive or pushy than I am comfortable with at times. They can also appear kind of blocked headed but when they do something they actually know what they are doing and sometimes I am amazed at what these people accomplish and how much more involved in life they are compared to me, their life experiences always seem to greatly exceed mine.
I had a co-worker SEE, super chill surfer guy, bought a house in Puerto Rico off Tesla stock profits that he only pays 8 bucks a month for in electricity because he's installing solar roof panels.
Another SEE, complete block head, goes from being a college graduate with no future, goes back to school for cooking and starts a catering company making exotic dishes that he advertises off instagram, and the pictures make you want to give up your money.
Last edited by Lord Pixel; 12-29-2019 at 08:35 PM.
Well, I married my Supervisor, and a Supervisee raised the question of marriage with me, so there is a lot of respect and admiration there, IMO.
However, I might be well out of the mainstream here. My father is also my Supervisor, and my closest relative, whom I grew up with, is my Supervisee, so I have a lot of exposure to both types in family terms. This might lessen the slightly toxic effects that the relationship normally has on its participants.
I like my Supervisee IEI's, but it really bothers me that my Te seems to hurt them. This puts some constraints on how much I can be me when I'm around them.
I greatly admire my Supervisors. I have a really hard time finding fault with the SLI-Te types. The SLI-Si types seem lazier and completely without ambition, but my sample size is small.
Having said that, my Supervisors do not seem to be impressed with me at all. This also sets a limit on how close we can really be. When your 100% is never good enough, it's time to change the game.
Last edited by Adam Strange; 12-28-2019 at 12:18 AM.
I donít generally like my supervisors much, and they donít seem to like me either. Iím not sure more specifically what SLEs think of me; with them I tend to dislike this sense that they try to take up all the ďpresenceĒ in a room and draw attention to themselves and what they have to say, regardless of if I care. That said, people are of course more than their Sociotypes, and Iíve met plenty of SLEs Iíve gotten along with. But I donít think Iíd ever, for instance, marry one.
Iíve been attracted to IEE women. When I was a teenager I once fell hard for one, though that had plenty to do with immaturity on my part. But Iím still usually attracted to them initially by what I guess is a sense of ďinfantilityĒ in the Socionical sense. But I donít think Iíd last long in a relationship with one: attraction aside, they tend to irritate me, even if I like them as people (and I frequently do). The Ti-PoLR is a large part of it; it feels like they sometimes just spew various unconnected facts that are a headache to piece together to figure out what their ďpointĒ with them is. Besides that, their Fi-emotionality gives a sense of ďdisconnectionĒ; that is, I guess since Iím Fe-valuing, I donít quite ďgetĒ a lot of Fi-creative behavior/speech. IEEs donít seem to like me too much as a rule, though Iím even less sure what they think of me than SLEs.
As flies to wanton boys are we to the gods. They kill us for their sport.
LIIs, on average:
- Usually at least somewhat more knowledgeable and intelligent than the average person in a group
- Are usually somewhat warm and personable
- Have usually pretty good taste in material things
- Pedantic and derpy/dissociated to the point where their intelligence is mostly wasted IMO; this is especially annoying when they try to take control of a group or instill themselves as some kind of omnipotent opinion backbone
- Can sometimes be socially awkward, inappropriate or rude in a way that pisses me off
- Just seem like gross nerds (who may not even necessarily be that intelligent) if their sensing isnít developed enough
ESIs, on average:
- Usually seem like decent, good people
- I donít need to help them with sensing things. They have it all together for the most part. Some of them are uber fit and athletic/attractive and my Se applauds.
- Some of the women can be bitchy and crazy (idk why.. jumping to conclusions sometimes? But at least they usually apologize IME)
- ESI guys often are a little bit emo or have some emotional issues
Small sample size, but IEE best friend and SLE brother I get along fantastically (if a little distantly) with. Bad typings, bad system, coincidence, your call.
We get along great because I avoid them.
My supervisors are so smart that they think they have it all figured out and are completely blind to what they do not know. My supervisees are so convinced of their moral righteousness, that they think this quality extends to other areas of cognition.
Ergo, both are ignorant and stupid. I'm so glad I'm IEE, I'm both smart and ethically competent. Not as smart as LIIs nor as virteous as ESIs, but I do combine best of both worlds, which gives me the competitive edge ;-)
I am married to my supervisee; she is SEE. We complement each other extremely well. We have considered our relationship to be on the "soulmate" level from the first time we met. We rarely fight or feel unseen by each other. In fact, 'marriage' was but a mere technicality for us, as we felt we had been together for our entire lives anyway, just.. we had only then met.
Many relationships and marriages happen between supervisor-supervisee. It may even be more common than duality... Something I've come to observe.
Though the supervisor/supervisee couples seem to stay withing their perceiving preferences. Such as the SEE-LSI (my wife and I), SLE and ESI, LII and IEE, ESE and SLI, etc. Perhaps the shock is too great across the Ne/Si - Se/Ni divide.
Supervisee (ESE): not as much experience here as with my supervisor, just my favorite cousin and a guy I dated many years ago. Blanket impression is they're warm, positive, and energizer bunnies (thanks demonstrative Se for doing everything while I just sit here!), but ignore the darker side of life and can be controlling. They try hard to keep the mood up, but I wonder why we all need to be that happy all the time. How do we progress or truly know each other if we ignore what's really going on? The things I say often make them stare at me blankly, so there's filtering involved on my part.
My cousin is 12 years older than me and I loved her as a child (and still do) because she was a ray of sunshine who gave great hugs. We get along fairly easily due to Fe, and I don't think I upset them (probably because I try not to Ni-overwhelm them). But the relationship feels one-dimensional after a while, like the same two notes over and over again. Fe-Si seems static, and I value forward movement.
Supervisor (LIE): I've known 3 LIEs quite well, two males and one female, and have had different experiences with each. Overall impression: we get along on a mental and humor level. I like their honesty. I find them quite funny, our conversations usually turning into a lot of snark, and they NEVER run out of things to say. All the ones I've known have seemed emotionally sensitive and kind of vulnerable interpersonally. They're gregarious but after a while I can see that they're actually kind of awkward with people on a close level.
One of the males I know has been depressed for many years because he hasn't been advancing in his career or life in general, and he's a Social 3. I think he also has unaddressed trauma. This particular LIE frustrates me because he's married to one of my best friends but I don't see him as being a particularly good partner to her, so while I care about him, it's harder to respect him. He also doesn't really fit the LIE stereotype of being uber-competent, but I think depression has dulled him quite a bit.
The LIE who has a lot of respect in my eyes (also married to a close friend) is like an older brother. He's a fantastic husband and father. I find myself wanting to know his advice/opinion on issues even if I don't take it, ha. He's married to his dual, and the two of them have felt a bit like mentors or an older brother/sister in my life. He's also the Ni subtype so has less of a Te-blast attitude in our conversations...seems a bit more sensitive to if I actually want advice or not.
Having an ILI-Te father has probably helped me develop a thick skin with my PoLR, and to some extent Te input feels normal to me because of him. I've learned to just put up a boundary or close the conversation or say directly if I don't want the advice. I also don't take it personally (well, I try not to) if I can tell it's coming from a place of genuine care.
This thread has got me thinking about supervision now. Maybe I should start a thread on how it can actually negatively impact the supervisor? Hmmm....
Last edited by Emily; 12-28-2019 at 09:09 PM.
edit: If so, and rereading the thread you probably were, then really... I don't care? There are no "mental gymnastics" going on because, as I said, I haven't researched this. I gave a vague but plausible explanation for a trend I have witnessed, because you asked for my observations. This has little to do with my self-typing and even less with your opinion of it.
Last edited by Samson; 12-28-2019 at 07:50 PM.
LSI: Enjoyable but only to some extent, find the Se familiar and funny to observe in their interaction with the world but cannot discuss much with them on a deeper level for obvious reasons. Cannot hold up to the Ti standard they require. Still more tolerable to me to be near than SLEs, either because of non-Fi polr despite unvalued or because of introversion which brings balance.
EII: I like them. My best friend is an EII and our relationship is pretty much how it's described in the theory. I help her with things like standing up for herself and doing some tasks for her while she is there for me for emotional support etc. Although occasionally I do lapse in lecturer mode with her because I cannot fathom how she could let yet another person walk over her, I let up easily and she doesn't hold it against me. Would not date anyone like her at all though.
I feel like LIEs often have their shit together in a way that I don't, almost like I'm at their mercy, and they can choose to give me advice or not. When they do, I feel like it's helpful and genuine. When they don't, there's almost a sense of being abandoned that I can't really explain. My general experience has been that they're good, conscientious people, and I look up to them.
With ESEs, they way I've supervised them has often manifested in me urging them to live by their own rules and according to what they want, and not being so caught up in what others expect of them. I generally try to see them for who they really are deep down. But it's been hard sometimes, because it's like the closer you get, the more they retreat. I feel for them, but we're also so very different.
SLIs are usually good at finding the problem but don't always follow through with a solution; they seem to prefer expediency over thoughtfulness. One day they metaphorically behave like knights-of-the-round-table and the next are in a drunken brawl, which shatters all previous images. Most were likeable but not ones I would fully trust to do what was asked.
IEEs seem to love investigation and experimentation but often have somewhat impractical expectations. Many metaphorically get lost in space and have to be shown the way out; they seem to need anchors to keep them on task. They can be somewhat self-righteous in a personable sort of way and will often preach in rambling fashions. Many seem to have obsessions and or addictions......
EDIT: Sorry, I meant SLEs not SLIs
Last edited by Rebelondeck; 12-29-2019 at 11:56 AM.
Expediency over thoughtfulness is true I guess when I’m using Se over Ti and other introverted functions, which in theory should be most or at least more of the time. I can’t just live a one-dimensional, unbalanced life like what your profile suggests though.
It’s like you’re asking me, “Hey, you’re a piece of shit. Do you agree?” Wtf lmao. You need to get your head beat in by someone in irl. Go and try to learn some manners. Nobody wants to be subtly coerced into being involved in your asshole paradigm whether you’re doing it consciously or not. Don’t be so naive.
OK, EII: give them a screwdriver and a screw. Watch it as the inner tension builds up. It is like: what am I supposed to do with this? Then I come up and put things together while shaking my head. She gets overwhelmingly grateful and I do not get why. That Te is unimaginable weak at times.
Then I see people and want something out of the conversation more than back forth feeling stuff like real objective stuff. I do not accept 1 = 2. When I think that people use something that causes lots of misunderstandings and I voice it they start to call me unemphatic jerk.
That is it the nutshell.
Dunno about LSI's. It is like they are sometimes bit suggestible in abstract sense. They might want to live up in a way that disregards some potential information and do not get bothered by it. Some of them really see my problems in the present environment like being one with it breathing in it and stuff so they point out stuff to me.
Measuring you right now
Winning is for losers
Supervision was one of the main reasons why I understood how accurate socionics is.
The dynamics are aiming at making the supervisee the "slave" of the supervisor. It's not even the person who does it, it just happens. It can be very subtle. You can resist it temporarily but it is always there. Even if you get along great and everything is "fine" I always feel somehow unappreciated by my supervisor. Like a fish out of water. I loose my ability to be natural and start to think of what to say and do. And whatever I say it doesn't really feel right. Things get easier if I just accept being a secondary being to the supervisor. It's a really frustrating combination and I totally understand why a supervisee might have a reaction against this and even become violent. (I think it's called counter-supervision?)
It doesn't have much to do with my personal judgements of LSE. They can be positive or negative depending on the person.
The assymetrical dynamics can in itself be attractive. You really feel that the supervisor has something that you don't. It's a devilish thing.
A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
(Jung on Si)
The good >
– can amaze me with their Si sense impression recall, as far as their ability to retain and reproduce the sensory details (e.g., explaining something with the clarity and specificity usually found in an instruction manual with nary a metaphor).
– they tend to have real life, hands-on, practical know-how and ingenuity that they can readily access and apply with an eye towards perfection.
– they also tend to be stoic, reliable, dutiful, loyal af, savagely blunt and low key shady (in their comments) to the point of hilarity, all traits I find to be admirable or amusing.
– their perfectionism can reach OCD levels of stress, anxiety and freak out when something disrupts their space, plans or how they think something should be/go.
– paranoia and skepticism about phenomena they’re unfamiliar with, which can make them rigid and slow to change. They can be so frustratingly risk averse and bound to “playing by the rules” to the point of limiting their prospects because they are reluctant to step outside of their comfort zone.
The good >
– I don’t believe I’ve ever come across an IEI that wasn’t gifted in some way, whether their full potential was realized/actualized or not.
– at their best, their ability to identify/synthesize/speak to/create/utilize systems of understanding that provide greater insight into people is truly incredible, whether that manifest as art, medicine, a business model, whatever–I think that they are often profound, prolific and rather extraordinary beings.
– also, some of the kindest things ever said to me, ME, a beast in human drag, have come from the mouths of IEIs and so it could be that I’m a bit biased. lol
The could-be-better >
– as important as it is to cultivate one’s own singular, systematic vision and understanding of the world, there is value in our collective understanding (i.e. Te/what is objectively true) and opening themselves up to that can broaden, strengthen and refine their world view.
I’ll give this a quick shot and hopefully return with better information later~
• Last night I took two mg of Xanax with zero tolerance and I imagine that feeling of clear headed warmth is exactly what they try to distill in me
• They seem easily annoyed by my limitless mental chatter, yet somewhat intrigued by it
• My head is still currently empty from my prescription escapade last night that I only remember in pieces I feel like they are empty headed (in a good way, mostly) and lack a connected sense of time which makes me anxious
• In summary, they physically take care of people and have an inner sense of peace and mental sobriety that almost feels like an attack to how I am
• I feel as though we have similar theories but they don’t apply it in the way that I would and I try to nudge them into the human realm
• I try to prompt them to engage socially instead of staying in their malaise
• When they are not in the malaise, they take care of the practical things in their own lives and are not oriented towards other people and the greater good
• I find them needlessly nihilistic but I admire their lack of neurosis regarding humanity, though I feel like they need to have it as well
And I'm what you desire, like a siren in the night
Originally Posted by Starfall7w6 2w3 8w9 - The Free Spirit
LIE: if they are genuinely a good person despite being LIE I find them kinda cool and interesting from a distance, and might even be a little surprised (in the good way) how nice they can be with me.
If they are LIE but they are also an asshole, it is of course very frustrating. I just want to get away from them.
I think my supervisee is too naive at times - but also at the same time too negative and self-defeating. Which is odd...because usually being too naive is associated with being too positive. With their Ni polr they can be really really bad at understanding the core essence of what somebody is like if you take away all these externalities. Like to me that is so FUCKING EASY and simple to figure out, how can you not fucking get that- but yeah it's their Polr and they are HORRIBLE with it. I try to remind myself to be patient with them cuz they can't help it but jeesh. It's like core essence is so fucking obvious and easy to me I can take it for granted it might not be so easy for others.
I also add I really like ESEs and want to tank for them. I just want to protect them and be nice to them.
But they don't want this. They want to be showered with Ti and I don't really do that naturally, I shower more with Ni instead- which just pisses them off and makes them cry.
I must force myself to use Ti to get along with them. its unnatural for me but I can kinda force myself to be more 4D TI-ish at times. then they like fall in love with me. Oh they are so sweet and precious. /condescendingly looks down on them.
I like my supervisor a lot. I've been missing one of them very much. My relationship with LII was one of the most fruitful relationships I've had, if not the most fruitful. Upon reflection, I realized moments he had supervised me and I got irritable though. I can absolutely see why supervisor/supervisee often marry based on this relationship and I'm not sure for the exact reasons behind it. I feel like we sort of Ne'ed out together and I actually really liked what he could teach me through Ti.
As for my supervisee, I'm not sure because there are some friends I've had that may have been supervisee, but I'm not 100 percent. For the most part, with maybe an exception or 2, I've liked the one's I've met online though. I don't always see us as particularly close (with maybe one exception), but there is a fair amount of common ground.
*edit* I think he's actually ILE so disregard lol
Last edited by thegreenfaerie; 05-06-2020 at 01:01 AM.
But I’m about 75% sure, I suppose. I’m like Pluto, I used to be a planet but now I’m just a meaningless rock.
And I'm what you desire, like a siren in the night
Originally Posted by Starfall7w6 2w3 8w9 - The Free Spirit
I tend to get along with LIEs and we usually work well together. The only issue (and I wouldn't even call it that) I had with one was her tendency to rush from one burnout to another. We were both in uni and every semester she would crash like clockwork shortly after midterms. She would honest to god work herself into the sorriest state and heaven forbid I recommend she get a full night's sleep or eat a vegetable once in a while. Her inability to comprehend the connection between rest and productivity puzzles me to this day.
I can't recall any issues with ESEs. But I had an issue with an EIE in highschool that probably fits. She had the tendency to criticize my behavior while pretending it was a joke. Only it was very clear to me that it wasn't a joke and it permanently soured my impression of her. The worst part is that it was usually small stuff like "not saying hello" when I honestly didn't notice her or "not saying thank you" for unasked for compliments or "taking too long to respond" for one reason or another. It was all the sort of stuff that seems reasonable on the surface but the way she'd go about it was excruciatingly belittling and eventually led to me passive-aggressively ignoring her outside of school-related work.
Supervisor ( SEE ) : She is caring , but sometimes she is too pushy
Supervise ( ILE ) : I know , i ever met ILE. But , i don't close with them
Surprising , my best friend is my supervisor and i get along with her.
I'm not sure if I'm an LSI or an ESI but...
I love ILE-Ti (especially ILE-Ti females but the vast majority of ILE-Ti are females), though a few ILE-Ti have enraged me, one was due to their constant criticism of me but I wasn't right. Sometimes their unpredictability can piss me off and sometimes when they argue things are true when they're obviously false or when they argue things are false when they're obviously true has pissed me off (it's when they do it for fun). Sometimes I feel like I'm walking on eggshells around them.
I'm not too fond of SEE-Fi. Too many authoritarian presidents, and the ones that claim to be libertarian don't usually support very libertarian policies. They can be kind of entertaining, but it doesn't make up for their ridiculous authoritarianism. SEE-Se are pretty good.
I'm quite fond of SLE, at least SLE-Ti; I don't know many people who I think were SLE-Se. They've pissed me off from time to time, but generally they're pretty good. The biggest problems I have with some of them are:
their unreasonable distrust.
their efforts to make sure everything remains confidential.
some of them can be extremely vigilant.
some of them have a need to dominate just for the sake of domination which can make me angry.
I'm not too fond of IEE. They're often quite authoritarian, both politically and inter-personally; for an Ne-base type, they can be quite concerned about order--they often have a high need for control and it's never gentle nor sexy like when an ILE-Ti needs to control something. Occasionally they're fun but not usually; when they lose their temper and lash out it totally ruins the fun you just had with them. They often have everything totally wrong, will argue endlessly that they're right, and they can never seem to argue logically. They're way too biased. Their bias based upon their ridiculous moralism and they're being disgusted with someone (sometimes everyone belonging to a certain group) for no good reason is probably the worst part of them. Their poor logical reasoning, not caring about symmetry and good colors and proportionality is also bothersome.
Last edited by Disturbed; 05-06-2020 at 03:45 AM.