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Thread: Dislike of duals

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    Quote Originally Posted by WinnieW View Post
    I agree. He values Se + Ni. He doesn't value Si and Ne => He's not SLI
    Why?
    I can't take this anymore
    And I'm almost pretty sure
    I've been here before



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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @Itsme, I get it. I had a few dates with an ESI-Se who was e6 and so/sp. I got along with her very well, she was attractive and wanted to have kids, which for me is perfect, and she was totally focused on her social contacts which, along with her being sx-last, was a deal-breaker.

    My ex-wife is an sx-last. I'm not doing that again for anything.

    In your case, if you can't trust her to fuck only you, then you should walk.
    Yes, what i find interesting is, even though everything is off, duality still seems to have an effect. Still good that it did not work out, she isn't really in my league tbh and her amoral behavior has shattered a lot of what made her attractive to me in the first place.
    I wish there was a better way to VI instincts, i think you also have to monitor chemistry and gut feeling when deciding if the other person is worth your efforts.
    Also i think that this way DCNH is more obvious because that's where a lot of surface and mid-close range attraction comes from in my opinion. Also sexual compatibility was not really there, she propably was exepecting dominant dcnh behavior and was far from forward enough for me to be appealing enough to justify the attention she needed.
    I guess now i also get where the notion comes from that assholes get women easily, probably because normalizing is the most common DCNH.
    But see, it has been a learning experience. I hope your dual hunting attempts were not as fruitless as mine and we both will get lucky soon.

  3. #43
    FreelancePoliceman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Any particular reason you are hard avoiding dating a woman like your mother? Lol. You don't have to answer right away. Take your time to think about it.
    Lol. Isn't that something women complain about -- when their husbands treat them like their mothers? I'd hate to be a bad husband! But seriously, there are reasons I wouldn't much like to date "a woman like my mother", that go beyond being ESE.

    I've also gotten more particular as I've aged. I was married to my ex-wife for many years, and I remember thinking in those first few years that I was the luckiest man in the world. But I wouldn't marry her today, because of all the things I've learned since then. La Belle Dame Sans Merci, indeed.
    I forget; what went wrong in your relationship?

    So you, Freelance, are in a better position now than I was then. You both know what the theory says, and you have the opportunity to put the theory into practice with a wide selection of desirable mates, who are also into you.
    Lol, maybe. But I like my SEI. Our relationship is generally OK; we just need time apart occasionally. Maybe I'll just get a second girlfriend. I've been considering it for a while. It sounds like a fantastic idea, and I'm surprised more people haven't had it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
    Why?
    The willingness to stand up for his values and defend them.

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    I had assumed socionics intertype relations had everything right when I first started looking at the theory, simply because the types were put together well, and it looked like it was just such a neat, "clean-cut" theory. But the intertype relations have a lot of problems and a lot to do with subtype.

    For example, even though ILE-Ti can't stand ESI-Fi, ILE-Ti and ESI-Se generally get along great and is a common marriage pairing (and one that lasts "until death does them apart") . I think that's because even though by theory the ESI doesn't value Si and Fe and Ne, the Sensory subtype representatives look great (so they supply the ILE-Ti's need for Si), they're elegant (supplying the ILE-Ti need for Si and Ti), their work is elegant, they like luxury (again, feeds the ILE-Ti's Si), they're good with logic for ethical types (doesn't go against the ILE-Ti's need for logical consistency and doesn't rebel against the ILE-Ti's analysis), they're yielding (so again, they're not obstinate that the ILE-Ti's logic isn't correct), they're original and non-repetitive (supplying the ILE-Ti's need for Ne), have higher IQ than most (which most ILE-Ti require in their marriage partner) and they have the dry and dark sense of humor that ILE-Ti like (supplying the ILE-Ti's need for Fe). And an ILE-Ti may admire and need the ESI-Se's knowledge of peoples' character. And the ESI-Se isn't emotionally needy so they let the ILE-Ti work on their projects or enjoy exploring the world, and both are also constructivist, so they can get down to business and doing necessary business (household maintenance, shopping, deciding what the best thing to buy is which they will both agree with because they both have discerning sensory perceptions and will want the very best and both will find the obscure) and/or doing fun things together with emotions detachment.

    And ESI-Se look down on society and are often anti-conformist while ILE-Ti are also non-conformist, have a tendency to think most people aren't smart, are boring, can't do anything right, etc. So what was supposed to be conflictors under the original theory, actually winds up with the ILE-Ti loving everything about the ESI-Se more than they love anything about just about any other type, and gaining everything they want from them with the ESI-Se not always disliking them and sometimes even loving ILE-Ti theories and ideas and wanting to learn more about them and their shared desire for luxury (which I also love too, but I don't have any money of my own, but I usually get the very best when I do have money and feel bad when I don't). Also, some ILE-Ti actually like to argue which is a problem with the original ITR theory as SEI avoid arguments, so an SEI will be bad for them and the ILE-Ti may view the SEI as not smart for going along with everything and not showing and expressing an independently thought out opinion (while the ESI-Se always has original opinions they think out themselves, and are usually unafraid and able to express quite eloquently which is something an ILE-Ti will appreciate in their conflictor, but be totally missing from their dual).

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    Quote Originally Posted by WinnieW View Post
    The willingness to stand up for his values and defend them.
    Fair enough point, but why couldn't an SLI do this? I guess the point is that his primary motive is to defend his values.
    I can't take this anymore
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    I've been here before



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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
    Fair enough point, but why couldn't an SLI do this?
    Yes, but usually in a different way. But... it's a fictional character which means he is written to fit a storyline, unlike a real person.
    Fictional characters tend to have a more vary type, at least for me, not all of them, but most of them.
    I think he prioritize ethical decisions. SLI however prioritize logical decisions... We all make both ethical and logical decisions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
    I guess the point is that his primary motive is to defend his values.
    HP use Se to defend his ethical values.
    He often needs Te advice from Hermine, as far as I can remember, I interpret it as him being Te suggestive.

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    To my recollection, I always like my duals.

    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    Does anyone else feel like their duals would consciously value someone much more like themselves than like you?
    Oh, yes. Not so much the female duals, who seem to end up with my identicals. But the males tend to end up with IXFx types in my limited experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

  9. #49
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    Ummm.. so female thinkers and male feelers might want to keep with their own kin? It would take a lot for me to end up with female thinker in most cases.
    Measuring you right now

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot View Post
    Imo:
    Ron SEE, Hermione LSE
    Elizabeth IEE, Mr. Darcy ILI

    Doctor Who Season 5, Amy and Rory are IEE and SLI
    Ron IEE
    Malfoy SEE
    Harry EII
    Hagrid SLI

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    Karen ESI - Plankton LIE
    Duals fight a lot..

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    Quote Originally Posted by WinnieW View Post
    Yes, but usually in a different way. But... it's a fictional character which means he is written to fit a storyline, unlike a real person.
    Fictional characters tend to have a more vary type, at least for me, not all of them, but most of them.
    I think he prioritize ethical decisions. SLI however prioritize logical decisions... We all make both ethical and logical decisions.


    HP use Se to defend his ethical values.
    He often needs Te advice from Hermine, as far as I can remember, I interpret it as him being Te suggestive.
    This makes sense, thanks for the analysis.
    I can't take this anymore
    And I'm almost pretty sure
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    I could see that, and I like the idea of Elizabeth being IEE : ) Yes, she seems like a better fit for IEE than what I often seen people portray IEE as

    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot View Post
    Imo:
    Ron SEE, Hermione LSE
    Elizabeth IEE, Mr. Darcy ILI

    Doctor Who Season 5, Amy and Rory are IEE and SLI

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    Isn't part of the thing with ESI and LIE that they kind of enjoy fighting with each other? Seems like I read that some where. Fight/struggle and then have passionate makeup session
    Quote Originally Posted by karas View Post
    Karen ESI - Plankton LIE
    Duals fight a lot..

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    I think I've yet to come across a SLI I'm really into :/, I seem to gravitate mostly to NF and NT types

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    Geez, I must be the only person who thinks Hermoine is LIE. I mean, surely STJ in MBTI but these are different systems. I think she must be 4D Ne with how easily she brainstorms and makes connections, unless itís all just Te and Te is more flexible than Iíve known (personally, I think Fe is the most flexible rational function...). Not to mention sheís a bookworm. I think her and Harry have a clear duality relationship.
    And I'm what you desire, like a siren in the night



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    Quote Originally Posted by bouncingoffclouds View Post
    Isn't part of the thing with ESI and LIE that they kind of enjoy fighting with each other? Seems like I read that some where. Fight/struggle and then have passionate makeup session
    I remember reading that, too, @bouncingoffclouds. I have no experience of it, though, outside of me telling an ESI that her feminine pink earmuffs go well with her chainsaw, and her telling me that I'm color blind.

    I'd call that push and push back.

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    lol Adam.
    @flames I would say if Hermione isn't LSE, that she is LIE. I adore her and she's my favorite whatever she is. She does have the whole time sequence in Prisoner of Azkaban, which could be symbolic of Ni

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    Quote Originally Posted by bouncingoffclouds View Post
    lol Adam.
    @flames I would say if Hermione isn't LSE, that she is LIE. I adore her and she's my favorite whatever she is. She does have the whole time sequence in Prisoner of Azkaban, which could be symbolic of Ni
    Prisoner of Azkaban is hands down the best of the movies! I never read all the books, in fact I’ve never finished even one of them, so no comment there.
    And I'm what you desire, like a siren in the night



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    It is the best movie, you are correct. My favorite book was Goblet of Fire

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    Quote Originally Posted by bouncingoffclouds View Post
    I think I've yet to come across a SLI I'm really into :/, I seem to gravitate mostly to NF and NT types
    I have met a few... Needless to say, we have clashed but there’s also been good moments, good talks. Conflictor can have some attraction and dual can have some repulsion, sometimes, but overall they live up to their names. My ex (we don’t talk about that story here. ) best friend’s roommate was a nightmare. He was a very paranoid and passive aggressive guy and I always felt like I was walking on eggshells around him. He’s even told me to shut up before. He is also quiet and mechanical and somewhat unpredictable. I am already unpredictable enough myself. I feel like he’s toxic for my Ep friend because she’s changed since being with him (on again off again relationship~). He is the reason I can’t live with them.
    And I'm what you desire, like a siren in the night



    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall
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    Yes, I am repulsed by some of the supposed SLI I have been shown lol, in a romantic sense more than a personal one. The more big, mopey types... I don't know quite how to describe it..., but wow, you just described this one guy who I've thought could be SLI, although he seemed more aggressive than the one's I've been shown... so I thought, maybe something else... though it's sounding like they can actually be quite aggressive. Anyway, this woman, likely ESE, in a community I was in swore he and I would be a perfect match. He hated most things, was very set in his ways, paranoid, passive-aggressive, metalhead (lol not sure where that fits into this, but hey it's a good descriptor for him). He's pretty unhealthy and toxic though, much like the person you described, so I couldn't see myself with someone like him. It seemed like he was amused by my natural state, would laugh and find me funny where I wasn't trying to be and I've recently wondered if he could have actually been my dual, which this ESE picked up on. Actually another guy comes to mind who could have been SLI, but he was also quite unhealthy and basically an incel lol.

    The more I think of it, if these people were SLI, I could see myself with a healthier version (first dude I mentioned went completely mental on his ex, no thanks) and something tells me I've just missed out on the good ones so far
    Last edited by thegreenfaerie; 12-21-2019 at 05:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bouncingoffclouds View Post
    Yes, I am repulsed by some of the supposed SLI I have been shown lol, in a romantic sense more than a personal one. The more big, mopey types... I don't know quite how to describe it..., but wow, you just described this one guy who I've thought could be SLI, although he seemed more aggressive than the one's I've been shown... so I thought, maybe something else... though it's sounding like they can actually be quite aggressive. Anyway, this woman, likely ESE, in a community I was in swore he and I would be a perfect match. He hated most things, was very set in his ways, paranoid, passive-aggressive, metalhead (lol not sure where that fits into this, but hey it's a good descriptor for him). He's pretty unhealthy and toxic though, much like the person you described, so I couldn't see myself with someone like him. It seemed like he was amused by my natural state, would laugh and find me funny where I wasn't trying to be and I've recently wondered if he could have actually been my dual, which this ESE picked up on. Actually another guy comes to mind who could have been SLI, but he was also quite unhealthy and basically an incel lol.

    The more I think of it, if these people were SLI, I could see myself with a healthier version (first dude I mentioned went completely mental on his ex, no thanks) and something tells me I've just missed out on the good ones so far
    They can be pretty aggressive IMO. Passive aggression. I find that they bottle things up until they reach a breaking point and let it lose and it’s not pretty... This seems to be true for most Fi valuing introverts. I haven’t had noteworthy good times with Fi introverts.
    And I'm what you desire, like a siren in the night



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    I should probably add that although "mopey" isn't really my thing, I can be quite attracted to dark and broody

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    I guess obvious but... don't go for ppl only b/c they may be your duals

    1) you may have typed wrong
    2) differences b/t ppl of a socionics type are huge
    3) your feelings are smarter than socionics

    maybe use socionics to cast a wider net but make choices based on your instincts

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    I guess obvious but... don't go for ppl only b/c they may be your duals

    1) you may have typed wrong
    2) differences b/t ppl of a socionics type are huge
    3) your feelings are smarter than socionics

    maybe use socionics to cast a wider net but make choices based on your instincts
    I agree with most of this but your third point is something I often see spouted by ethical types who take for granted their heightened capacity to be more confident/secure/sure/in touch with their feelings and the veracity/validity of them, as far as making decisions based on them. It doesn't surprise me that Socionics was created by a logical type because many of us don't trust that our "feelings are smarter" which is why it's immensely helpful to be able to use more systematized methods like IR as a way of making up for the Fe/Fi skills we inherently lack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alonzo View Post
    I agree with most of this but your third point is something I often see spouted by ethical types who take for granted their heightened capacity to be more confident/secure/sure/in touch with their feelings and the veracity/validity of them, as far as making decisions based on them. It doesn't surprise me that Socionics was created by a logical type because many of us don't trust that our "feelings are smarter" which is why it's immensely helpful to be able to use more systematized methods like IR as a way of making up for the Fe/Fi skills we inherently lack.
    Logical types have gut feelings and filters about what sorts of ppl would be good with them though. At least, in conversations Iíve had they have said they do. I.e. you get set up on a blind date with a person who is superficially interested in art, lives a particular lifestyle, etc. But then it turns out youíre interested for completely different reasons and you donít actually click. Or youíre going incompatible ways in life, etc.

    What I mean is if a dynamic is causing you pain, or deep down you think somethingís a bad idea, donít let your socionics get in the way of your deeper feelings (intuition).

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    lol looks like I have no feelings at all considering relational attributes when I decide something. I just figure out how the person thinks and reacts and from there it is a very dulling experience. Like I think I have superb theory of mind without personal attachments and person's personal attachments ̣like those do not count at all partly because happenings in material world are also mostly dulling. I only need initial values and constants to be inserted in my mental formulas.
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    I would say a logical could be less likely to emotionally bond with someone who has similar surface interests but different motivations right away. Ethical types will create an ideal version or fantasy about somebody that isn’t the truth, whereas a logical type would look at it, well, logically and realistically. But, the negative side would be that the logical type is less likely to see who they -should- be bonding with IMO.
    And I'm what you desire, like a siren in the night



    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall
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    yeah I remember the comments of my ESI sister after interviewing Patti Smith (strong LIE-Ni case imo), twice. at first she was disappointed, then it became a real antipathy, contempt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    yeah I remember the comments of my ESI sister after interviewing Patti Smith (strong LIE-Ni case imo), twice. at first she was disappointed, then it became a real antipathy, contempt.
    I was about to say how could anyone dislike Patti Smith?!?! But then I realized I was actually thinking of Joan Jett and I know nothing about Patti Smith.
    And I'm what you desire, like a siren in the night



    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall
    Everyone, pls give Bled some likes. He craves the likes much like Suedehead craves the cock.
    7w6 2w3 8w9 - The Free Spirit

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    ^v relevant observation :]

    btw, I've said this before, since I used to be a fan of Patti before some personal interactions I've been told about. Her interpersonal skills have been very shitty and rude, she played the diva while she's often portrayed as the idol of the poor masses. Some things, like the way you behave, go beyond the scope of socionics. And duals are often thought to be made to deal with all kind of unhealthy behaviors around here, well, that's not the case.

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    I like my duals. However, I've been wronged by them. As soon as I was, I forgave them. But I also distanced myself, because it was too much. It really took a toll on me. I like this person for who they are, and I still admire them and I value what they teached me, how they made me look at things in a different way. it's weird.

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    I get the feeling a lot of my male duals don’t like me unless I’m doing something impressive for them. I don’t like sycophantic people who cling onto others because of their pretentious capabilities or accomplishments instead of doing things for themselves. So I strategically don’t tell people about my accomplishments until later on when I can tell they deserve a slap in the face coming for them. It’s not my job to dance like a monkey for anybody.

    Someone who doesn’t appreciate my value until it’s too late: I’m just going to play with them for a bit and then toss them in the garbage.
    Last edited by sbbds; 12-27-2019 at 06:48 AM.

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    I don’t dislike but since I’m broke and homely looking i don’t see LIE women as viable partners for the time being—we run in completely different circles and I can’t compete with chads on dating sites. I almost exclusively go for milquetoast IXFxs
    Last edited by Averroes; 12-28-2019 at 07:30 PM.

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    What if you dislike / like most people in general?
    And I'm what you desire, like a siren in the night



    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall
    Everyone, pls give Bled some likes. He craves the likes much like Suedehead craves the cock.
    7w6 2w3 8w9 - The Free Spirit

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    Of course you can dislike a dual. And you can continue to dislike them. For eternity. Trump is my dual and I don't like him. Eh not really. I don't dislike him but I am pretty neutral.

    Socionics is one component of this complicated universe. It's true and all real- but it's still only one component. If you have your head in ur butt too much over one component- that seems like the way to madness in a sense.

    Your dual could have vastly different values and vantage points and u could not at all be sexually attracted- even though generally I think, sexual attraction between duals is the most common. But that is generalizations.

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    They remind me of um work, basically. I don't mean the specifics of my job, nor the working world in general, but just the idea of work. It makes me balk. And i'm not quite sure this is a reason or a consequence of something else. I suppose this is not even straight up dislike or anything.

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    Yep. It happens. I think duals may occasionally be misidentified as conflictors. I used to hate this one dude in high school - well, hate might be a little too strong of a word. But I didn't like him. Hung out recently with a group of mutual friends, 10+ years later, realized we might actually get along pretty well.

    Funny thing, we both noticed. Connected in a few ways. He made a joke at the table which was almost something I would have said and it cracked me up. So I say "Why haven't we got drunk together yet?"

    He replies "I don't know! I thought you hated me."

    I turn back to the table, somber faced, "I did."

    And looking through the lens of Socionics, I realized the only type that actually made sense for this dude was SEE. Very Se, irrational.

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    I've met at least a couple of LSEs. The relationships I had with the ones I'm fairly sure of were not that deep. I only saw one a few times outside of class. I never tried to get too close to him, because I figured he wouldn't be interested in that. The other, we had a one night stand kinda thing, but kept in touch for a while through different apps. I disliked the second guy's attitude to some degree, because he seemed really judgmental and kind of harsh.

    I've also known a couple of female LSEs. The first one I remember, we helped each other in different ways during college. I think she might have been interested in a closer friendship, but I didn't feel the same way. She would always try talking to me when I felt like leaving the conversation and doing something elsewhere. The other female LSE I knew was someone I played an online text-based game with. We got along okay, and our relationship was pretty smooth. She was a doctoral student in political science, and she managed to get past the fact that I was a fairly conservative person at that point in my life due to just coming out of a very strict fundamentalist mindset. She continued talking to me and being friendly.

    There's only one guy I think was LSE who hung out with me on a fairly personal non-romantic basis a few times IRL. He always had a tendency to judge my behavior as being "gay" or inappropriate because it wasn't masculine enough. I'm from a pretty backwards area, so maybe it's just natural that he would react that way to me. It was a bit strange hanging out with him. He acted like he was trying to correct me quite a bit, but he also hung out and had a good time to some degree? I'm still done with people like that, though. I don't hang out with people to be treated like that.

    So, my LSE relationships could be described as fizzles. Nothing long-term came from them. Of course, none of my other relationships (including friendships) have ever become long-term either except for one person I met here.

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