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Thread: This is how the MBTI types and the real cognitive functions match

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    Akhromant's Avatar
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    Post This is how the MBTI types and the real cognitive functions match

    Hi

    This is probably going to be my one and only post here (I've registered just for this). I won't reply to comments here, either. If anyone wants to read about this, and then maybe ask/comment, you can find me at https://akhromant.tumblr.com (you don't need an account to send messages there), but first make sure to check the index page, read the texts/links carefully (even several times), and think things over, please. This requires some time (not just a few hours) because most people are too used to the widespread misconceptions, and the needed reevaluation is not easy (also, many people make a living out of them, or have their sense of "identity" built around them, so they basically can't/won't ever admit that they have been wrong all this time). Some important posts are #01, #13, #19 and #25 (but also #24, #31, #35, #59, etc). There are also tables, lists (including the Socionics correlation), and even some memes

    This is a very brief summary of the problem: what the famous (but nonexistent) e-i-e-i/i-e-i-e "stacks" call "functions" are not what Jung discovered and described in his book. They are not functions, but behavioral traits that correspond to different pairs of letters:

    Their "Te" is not the real extraverted thinking, but a mix of TJ-traits.
    Their "Fe" is not the real extraverted feeling, but a mix of FJ-traits.
    Their "Se" is not the real extraverted sensation, but a mix of SP-traits.
    Their "Ne" is not the real extraverted intuition, but a mix of NP-traits.
    Their "Ti" is not the real introverted thinking, but a mix of TP-traits.
    Their "Fi" is not the real introverted feeling, but a mix of FP-traits.
    Their "Si" is not the real introverted sensation, but a mix of SJ-traits.
    Their "Ni" is not the real introverted intuition, but a mix of NJ-traits.

    The real cognitive functions are different (for example: Fi is not about "emotions", Si is not "memory", Ni is not about "the future", etc). Socionics has a different set of misconceptions about the functions.

    There is a second group of people that have a sense of what [some of] the functions are, somehow, but they use those same mistaken "stacks", so they mistype everybody (I talked about this in post #58). They should be using the correct function arrangements of the types, which are as follows:

    ESTJ is Te-Se-Ni-Fi
    ENTJ is Te-Ne-Si-Fi
    ESFJ is Fe-Se-Ni-Ti
    ENFJ is Fe-Ne-Si-Ti
    ESTP is Se-Te-Fi-Ni
    ESFP is Se-Fe-Ti-Ni
    ENTP is Ne-Te-Fi-Si
    ENFP is Ne-Fe-Ti-Si
    ISTJ is Ti-Si-Ne-Fe
    INTJ is Ti-Ni-Se-Fe
    ISFJ is Fi-Si-Ne-Te
    INFJ is Fi-Ni-Se-Te
    ISTP is Si-Ti-Fe-Ne
    ISFP is Si-Fi-Te-Ne
    INTP is Ni-Ti-Fe-Se
    INFP is Ni-Fi-Te-Se


    Most people are going to reject this, I know, but that's how the MBTI types and the real functions match. That's how everything fits.

    There is a third group of people (the smallest in number of the three, of course) that have found this, usually by themselves, after reading and thinking a lot about these things. Maybe you can be one of them

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    Following this, I'd be ESTP. Behavior wise, knowing what I know about myself, that's kind of correct... At this point I think MBTI is just free reign for everyone to theorise about. Thanks for sharing.

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    nah i disagree with this stuff

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    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
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    We all have all the functions so this is worthless af

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    We all have all the functions so this is worthless af
    That argument is worthless af

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    Socionics is a spook ashlesha's Avatar
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    I dunno how Ni and Se would manifest so equally strong and prominent in ISFJ if they are opposites in a sense, but I feel like there's something interesting here and I'll check out your blog. Thanks for the all the effort and self-exposure to critique.

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    faith's Avatar
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    OMG YOU CAME FROM TUMBLR AHAHAHH

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    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    I dunno how Ni and Se would manifest so equally strong and prominent in ISFJ if they are opposites in a sense, but I feel like there's something interesting here and I'll check out your blog. Thanks for the all the effort and self-exposure to critique.
    Probably stemming from behavior observation and not actual cognition, since this is MBTI. I checked out their tumblr with their own socionics correlations, and what I relate to (ESTP) they wrote correlated to LIE... In that regard, my superficial behavior might match up with Te doms, yeah. But the motivations are all different, which is why I think this is all rather surface level.

    But yeah, lots of effort and guts to share it. Props for that!

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    Quote Originally Posted by from the website
    All the Socionics’ ideas about “elements”, “functions”, “blocks”, “quadras” and “relations” are useless because they come from completely incorrect foundations
    This is the kind of stuff ILIs write. Strangely enough, it sounds like something Singu would write.

    Fundamentalism in general is something I associate with Ni leads.

    Quote Originally Posted by same source
    Anonymous said: can you give a source on enneagram having a tie to numerology other than that they both have numbers? I agree the religious-y termanology is annoying, but why do you keep referencing cults and money? also why are you so strongly against the ideas of self examination and trying to improve yourself? I would definitely not call it less nuanced, unless you didn't do your research. base type, wing, instinctual variant, directions of growth and stress, tritype if you're into that..

    You could have answered most of these questions yourself, just by looking around the blog and thinking for a few minutes before clicking on the Ask button.

    Sources

    The obsession with “sources” is a problem in itself. First of all, people tend to ask for them only when they don’t like what they are hearing. If they already know about it, or they like it, suddenly there’s no need for “sources”, or for checking them. Otherwise, when they are requested, it’s usually just a maneuver, part diversionary tactic and part [willful] ignorance. People start talking about the “validity” of those “sources”, assuming that they can’t find answers for themselves, and no longer discussing the thing.

    Well, the source is me. I am telling you.

    You need to drop that supposed inability to figure things out for yourself. Look at the enneagram. Can you see the 9? What is that? A number. The 9 is a number. It’s not a natural ocurrence, a simple aftereffect or consequence, or some circumstantial curiosity. No, it’s the foundation, and the name. If you replace or take away the number the enneagram doesn’t exist. It’s all based on the number 9. Someone thought the number 9 was so meaningful that it could describe everything [about the human mind]. That’s numerology. They probably started making calculations and marvelling at the “perfection” that they had just found. “Wow, it’s all there, look, I can’t believe it.” (Unfortunately, they did).

    The world doesn’t work like that. The idea that there is a number behind everything is just ridiculous and laughable. It’s sad (and a bit revolting) to see so many people falling for that. In fact, this is the last time I answer a question about the enneagram. It’s basically like trying to get me to talk about astrology: I won’t do it, because it’s no more than enabling dangerous delusions.
    I found this bit funny. I have to say, I don't find enneagram useful either, but to each his own.

    Overall cool website but nothing new. There are some interesting pages. But I'm not really interested in a reinterpretation of the theory.

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    stare into me flames's Avatar
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    Off topic but...

    MBTI Fe: I am your personal love slut/unquestioning servant.
    And I'm what you desire, like a siren in the night



    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall
    Everyone, pls give Bled some likes. He craves the likes much like Suedehead craves the cock.
    7w6 2w3 8w9 - The Free Spirit

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    This is 4d functions and 1d functions of each type:
    LIE - Te base, Ne demonstrative, Si PoLR, Fi seeking;
    et cetera
    The most apparant as strongest and weakest

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    Quote Originally Posted by flames View Post
    Off topic but...

    MBTI Fe: I am your personal love slut/unquestioning servant.
    Isnt that what u are?

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    Well, this is interesting
    "I am my own muse. I am the subject I know best, the subject I want to know better."
    4 core, sx/so slight sx bend, xNFp Melancholic, Negotiator, Explorer




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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    yes, I'm Fi Thanks for confirming...I wish someone would transplant Se into my head...
    so today...tangent. my mother says "scream at her 'NO' so she knows not to do that." and I say "honey, we don't do that" lol oh lord
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    As far as I've seen, a person's cognitive functions in the MBTI can't be used with any high degree of accuracy to predict their four-letter code. In my case, I'm an INFJ and my main function, the one most prominent in me, is Ni, definitely not Fi. Fi is only my third or fourth most prominent function. And I am definitely not an INFP in the MBTI. I'm a J.

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    stare into me flames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    Isnt that what u are?
    I’m no damn servant. You bow to me.
    And I'm what you desire, like a siren in the night



    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall
    Everyone, pls give Bled some likes. He craves the likes much like Suedehead craves the cock.
    7w6 2w3 8w9 - The Free Spirit

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    Transcendence coeruleum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flames View Post
    I’m no damn servant. You bow to me.
    I was about to say @flames is just a personal slut but not at all a servant, especially an unquestioning one.
    I am disappointed in humanity for not sending unsolicited nude pictures to aliens.
    We're all mad here.
     


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    Transcendence coeruleum's Avatar
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    Does @God bow to @flames? Oh my.
    I am disappointed in humanity for not sending unsolicited nude pictures to aliens.
    We're all mad here.
     


  19. #19
    stare into me flames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coeruleum View Post
    Does @God bow to @flames? Oh my.
    Hell burns and the smoke is what makes heaven. Everything is based off evil!
    And I'm what you desire, like a siren in the night



    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall
    Everyone, pls give Bled some likes. He craves the likes much like Suedehead craves the cock.
    7w6 2w3 8w9 - The Free Spirit

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    Autochauvinist Grendel's Avatar
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    Is Maritsa using an old baby pic of herself as an avatar, or is that her child?


    Can we just take a moment to let it sink in how skeevy it would be to dox your own offspring like that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    Shut the fuck up, dumbass.


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    stare into me flames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    Is Maritsa using an old baby pic of herself as an avatar, or is that her child?


    Can we just take a moment to let it sink in how skeevy it would be to dox your own offspring like that?
    It’s hard to tell because she’s still a child.

    (But she still needs a facelift and to fix up those crow’s feet...)
    And I'm what you desire, like a siren in the night



    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall
    Everyone, pls give Bled some likes. He craves the likes much like Suedehead craves the cock.
    7w6 2w3 8w9 - The Free Spirit

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    Transcendence coeruleum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    Is Maritsa using an old baby pic of herself as an avatar, or is that her child?


    Can we just take a moment to let it sink in how skeevy it would be to dox your own offspring like that?
    That alone is why I can't take Maritsa seriously at all anymore.
    I am disappointed in humanity for not sending unsolicited nude pictures to aliens.
    We're all mad here.
     


  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by flames View Post
    Hell burns and the smoke is what makes heaven. Everything is based off evil!
    Have you ever seen those pictures of crosses or doves or hearts with flames on them? I wouldn't say fire is anti-good but nevertheless people tend to conveniently forget what they don't like.
    I am disappointed in humanity for not sending unsolicited nude pictures to aliens.
    We're all mad here.
     


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