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Thread: voider's questionnaire

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by voider View Post
    @Investigator beyond circumstantial correlation, any other reason for Fi>Se subtype?
    My apologies for lack of the content.

    To be honest, I found a lot of your answers to the questionnaire quite similar to what my SEE-Fi friend (who is very close to me) would say. I merely picked out the comment that seemed like a direct quote from his dialogue. He hates theatrics, he using his headphones to ignore strangers (there have been several occurrences where I have observed this), but he loves talking with his friends extensively (whenever he is bored, this is his preferred activity) which definitely indicates -Fi/+Fe. He definitely uses exercise to alleviate stress (this can be explained as a slight shift prioritization of value for Se+/-Si to a bit more +Si/-Se). He stated from a very young age that one of his biggest goals was to find his love and develop a prosperous family. He is definitely someone who wants his environment to be clean and he states that he always "picks up the slack" when his brother gets a bit messy. He is also very big on responsibility. As an example: he rebuked someone who didn't put his weights back in the gym when most people would ignore this kind of thing. He also gets annoyed/frustrated when discussion gets to be too philosophical, so he relies on facts he collected (-Te/+Ti). He even talk about those extremes in his social life as a kid. The list goes on and on.... If you want more, just say the word.
    Last edited by Investigator; 01-09-2020 at 03:55 AM.

  2. #82
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    Hmmm. That does sound exactly like me @Investigator lol. Instead of describing that guy, can you tell me what the SEE-Se is like, or more precisely, in which major ways the two of them differ?

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by voider View Post
    Hmmm. That does sound exactly like me @Investigator lol. Instead of describing that guy, can you tell me what the SEE-Se is like, or more precisely, in which major ways the two of them differ?
    Despite the values of me and the SEE-Fi being more in line, the actions of a SEE-Se are a bit more similar to my own. He has slightly lower social skills to the SEE-Fi, but he is participates in social manipulation (very light manipulation) a bit more. Just like myself, he finds no issue in resorting to tricks/bending the rules to get what he wants. He has no problem about not socializing for an extended period of time in pursuit of a successful career (Se-Te) while as I stated before, the SEE-Fi would psychological suffer from this. The SEE-Fi is more diplomatic, even among his love ones (though he is not afraid to speak his mind... at all). The SEE-Se on the other hand, though he is diplomatic among strangers, he is a lot more vulgar among friends/loved ones (shifting value to -Fe/+Fi from -Fi/+Fe). As stated before, the SEE-Se just wants wealth to help out with his family and become free of hard-line responsibilities (+Se and not -Se). I am not sure about the SEE-Fi's motivation for receiving wealth. The SEE-Se's work ethic is dependent on his mood and as a result is a bit more disorganized, but the SEE-Fi takes care of problems right away because he likes to be on top of things (valuing shift: +Se vs -Se). The SEE-Fi's receives motivation from verbal approval while the SEE-Se doesn't really care. The SEE-Fi is very tolerant and flexible with his friends and love ones, but the SEE-Se would not flinch to cut you off if he has found reason to (however, there only a few reasons as he is still a Feeling Type).
    Last edited by Investigator; 01-09-2020 at 09:18 PM.

  4. #84
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    @Investigator thank you for the in depth response dear dual ^_^ if what you're describing is true, then I do relate to SEE-Fi more than SEE-Se. I guess if I had to answer the question why I'd really like to continue working is to keep seeing people but also contribute to society, which is a more altruistic goal even though still self-oriented. I don't relate to manipulating people overtly, in fact I feel like if I do it I'm actually doing it unconsciously with emotional pressuring. Usually I feel like it's quite useless to do so though because I can just get what I want on my own. The biggest reason why I feel like SEE-Fi is not applicable is that to my understanding the emphasis of one of the functions comes at the cost of another; in that vein, I felt that my Te is not weak enough to be a Fi subtype, whereas I need guidance in Ni matters quite frequently. But I see that may have been a misguided understanding, since the subtype doesn't really change the underlying functions anyway. I'm not socionics-savvy enough or even willing to look for the details that might really differentiate the two.

    Would you say the Fi sub is more flexible in Fi matters than the Se sub, and vice versa about Se matters?

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by voider View Post
    @Investigator thank you for the in depth response dear dual ^_^ if what you're describing is true, then I do relate to SEE-Fi more than SEE-Se. I guess if I had to answer the question why I'd really like to continue working is to keep seeing people but also contribute to society, which is a more altruistic goal even though still self-oriented. I don't relate to manipulating people overtly, in fact I feel like if I do it I'm actually doing it unconsciously with emotional pressuring. Usually I feel like it's quite useless to do so though because I can just get what I want on my own. The biggest reason why I feel like SEE-Fi is not applicable is that to my understanding the emphasis of one of the functions comes at the cost of another; in that vein, I felt that my Te is not weak enough to be a Fi subtype, whereas I need guidance in Ni matters quite frequently. But I see that may have been a misguided understanding, since the subtype doesn't really change the underlying functions anyway. I'm not socionics-savvy enough or even willing to look for the details that might really differentiate the two.

    Would you say the Fi sub is more flexible in Fi matters than the Se sub, and vice versa about Se matters?
    I understand what you mean when you say don’t feel you’re Te is weak enough. I found this particular phenomenon in EII-Fi’s. If you have ever met an EII-Fi, they seem much more organized than an EII-Ne in average despite having weaker Te. This may seem unintuitive at first, but I believe that this is because we underestimate how much the shifting of functional values effects how the relevant functions manifest. EII-Fi may not be the better at organizing their environment than the EII, but they “care” about the organization of the environment more than the EII-Ne. Of course there is other things going on the background like sensory functions being boosted leading to them interacting their environment more. However, when it comes down to it, you have more EII-Ne’s in science as they benefit from boosted +Te/-Ti. Another thing you have to think about is rationality vs irrationality is one of most important dichotomies in Socionics. You find no matter how much SEE-Se strengthen their -Te/+Ti, they still seem somewhat disorganized. This is because an irrational function is steering the ship. So instead they use their +Se/-Si to “will” themselves into productivity.

    To answer your follow-up question: Of course. The whole concept of duality is that you have strengths that you can flexible use so that their dual can rely on them if they need/want to. The potency of a particular strength or weakness is merely de/emphasized depending on the subtype. At the end of the day, an both ILE-Ne’s and ILE-Ti’s both have relatively weak +Si/-Se. Just because the ILE-Ti has better +Si/-Se doesn’t mean this function is completely covered (for example they need constant monitoring so they don’t pick very unhealthy habits like skipping meals for work).

    Edit: I forgot to comment on the emotional pressuring stuff: I find requests from SEE-Fi’s very hard to reject (maybe that’s why I replied to this thread, haha) My SEE-Fi friend doesn’t realize how good he is at persuading people (at least not yet...) to do something he wants the, to do. While the SEE-Se knows he is good at it (though still less capable than the SEE-Fi) and does it more often with a lot more force (+Se/-Si blended together with higher value for -Fe/+Fi). While the SEE-Fi’s tactics are much more indirect (-Fi/+Fe), and more persitent (shifting value from +Se/-Si to +Si/-Se).
    Last edited by Investigator; 01-09-2020 at 10:24 PM.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Investigator View Post
    I understand what you mean when you say don’t feel you’re Te is weak enough. I found this particular phenomenon in EII-Fi’s. If you have ever met an EII-Fi, they seem much more organized than an EII-Ne in average despite having weaker Te. This may seem unintuitive at first, but I believe that this is because we underestimate how much the shifting of functional values effects how the relevant functions manifest. EII-Fi may not be the better at organizing their environment than the EII, but they “care” about the organization of the environment more than the EII-Ne. Of course there is other things going on the background like sensory functions being boosted leading to them interacting their environment more. However, when it comes down to it, you have more EII-Ne’s in science as they benefit from boosted +Te/-Ti. Another thing you have to think about is rationality vs irrationality is one of most important dichotomies in Socionics. You find no matter how much SEE-Se strengthen their -Te/+Ti, they still seem somewhat disorganized. This is because an irrational function is steering the ship. So instead they use their +Se/-Si to “will” themselves into productivity.

    To answer your follow-up question: Of course. The whole concept of duality is that you have strengths that you can flexible use so that their dual can rely on them if they need/want to. The potency of a particular strength or weakness is merely de/emphasized depending on the subtype. At the end of the day, an both ILE-Ne’s and ILE-Ti’s both have relatively weak +Si/-Se. Just because the ILE-Ti has better +Si/-Se doesn’t mean this function is completely covered (for example they need constant monitoring so they don’t pick very unhealthy habits like skipping meals for work).

    Edit: I forgot to comment on the emotional pressuring stuff: I find requests from SEE-Fi’s very hard to reject (maybe that’s why I replied to this thread, haha) My SEE-Fi friend doesn’t realize how good he is at persuading people (at least not yet...) to do something he wants the, to do. While the SEE-Se knows he is good at it (though still less capable than the SEE-Fi) and does it more often with a lot more force (+Se/-Si blended together with higher value for -Fe/+Fi). While the SEE-Fi’s tactics are much more indirect (-Fi/+Fe), and more persitent (shifting value from +Se/-Si to +Si/-Se).
    Okay, you have convinced me of my SEE-Fi-ness. I begrudgingly admit, although it hurts! @Adam Strange and @Aramas you can gloat in peace now. It only took an ILI.

    Anyway, I understand what you mean by the Fi subtype outwardly appearing more organised because they consciously bring more attention towards that, rather than the perceiving function. At times I feel like I'm both too rigid and too flexible with Fi, whereas Se is a constant and I don't pay that much attention to its process. Maybe this is the byproduct of looking up to my delta ST dad and using his behavior as an example my whole life.

    I'm miffed, now that I've more or less accepted SEE-Fi, that I have no more excuse to get people to talk about me.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by voider View Post
    Okay, you have convinced me of my SEE-Fi-ness. I begrudgingly admit, although it hurts! @Adam Strange and @Aramas you can gloat in peace now. It only took an ILI.
    I'm not gloating. I'm not even 100% sure I was right.

    Quote Originally Posted by voider View Post
    Anyway, I understand what you mean by the Fi subtype outwardly appearing more organised because they consciously bring more attention towards that, rather than the perceiving function. At times I feel like I'm both too rigid and too flexible with Fi, whereas Se is a constant and I don't pay that much attention to its process. Maybe this is the byproduct of looking up to my delta ST dad and using his behavior as an example my whole life.

    I'm miffed, now that I've more or less accepted SEE-Fi, that I have no more excuse to get people to talk about me.
    You could always do something scandalous. People love to talk about scandals.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I'm not gloating. I'm not even 100% sure I was right.



    You could always do something scandalous. People love to talk about scandals.
    I'll leave the scandals to the Fe doms It feels very disingenuous and unnecessary to pretend in order to get attention. I don't want to pretend, I want to command it. But one cannot do that with conviction and strength behind it if they have nothing to show for it. Which is why I will wait until I have something truly interesting to talk about lol.

  9. #89
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    Being scandalous doesn’t always work either. My thread is dead. >: (
    Last edited by flames; 01-10-2020 at 04:34 PM.
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  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by flames View Post
    Being scandalous doesn’t always work either. My thread is dead. >: (
    Which one?

  11. #91
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    I was sure of Se subtype prior but I am not so set on this at the present. I see in you a distinct rationale that is lacking in many SEE’s (nothing correlated to their intelligence, just you seem very focused for an Ep type). However, that could be waved away by several things... Enneagram, environment, etc. I’m not sure if Se or Fi subtype is more focused between them but I assume it would be Fi subtype because of the undercover Ij element... Though Se subtype is more Te heavy.

    Hmm.
    Any thoughts?
    And I'm what you desire, like a siren in the night



    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall
    Everyone, pls give Bled some likes. He craves the likes much like Suedehead craves the cock.
    7w6 2w3 8w9 - The Free Spirit

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by flames View Post
    I was sure of Se subtype prior but I am not so set on this at the present. I see in you a distinct rationale that is lacking in many SEE’s (nothing correlated to their intelligence, just you seem very focused for an Ep type). However, that could be waved away by several things... Enneagram, environment, etc. I’m not sure if Se or Fi subtype is more focused between them but I assume it would be Fi subtype because of the undercover Ij element... Though Se subtype is more Te heavy.

    Hmm.
    Any thoughts?
    I'm more focused than EPs on average, yeah, but compare me to anyone who's not an EP and I look really all over the place lol. Environment probably has to do with it, with my EJ parents and everything. When left to my own devices I quickly lose a lot of that. Considering DNCH, currently I fall under Normalizing, so that influences things too.

    I liked what Investigator said about the difference between his Se and Fi subtype friends. The Fi subtype, although objectively "worse" at Te, values it more and therefore that translates more into their outward behavior. In contrast, the Se subtype, although "better" at Te, does not value expressing it as much, and may therefore appear more scattered. At least that's how I see it, and why I decided on Fi subtype.

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