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Thread: Democratic vs Aristocratic

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    Default Democratic vs Aristocratic

    So as a democratic type myself (self type as LIE, some have pointed out I could be ILE and I definitely agree it's possible - 4D Te/4D Ne either way and both are democratic) I am probably more bias to thinking that the democratic approach is "better". I was wondering if any of the aristocratic types on this forum could describe whether the aristocratic attitude has been more of a benefit or a hindrance to you in your life.
    Last edited by queentiger; 11-22-2019 at 05:16 PM. Reason: Rewording Post
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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    I’m Aristocratic type and no Democratics are not a hindrance they just approach problem solving differently than I do. It’s good to have a different perspective
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    I’m Aristocratic type and no Democratics are not a hindrance they just approach problem solving differently than I do. It’s good to have a different perspective
    I see, I think I worded my post badly though - what I was meaning was does having the aristocratic preference prove more of a benefit or a hindrance to you?
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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by queentiger View Post
    I see, I think I worded my post badly though - what I was meaning was does having the aristocratic preference prove more of a benefit or a hindrance to you?
    Hinderance in any specific area?
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    Hinderance in any specific area?
    I mean I don't have a specific area in mind, but if you can think of any that you wanna share I'd be glad to read it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by queentiger View Post
    I mean I don't have a specific area in mind, but if you can think of any that you wanna share I'd be glad to read it.
    Yes! Here’s one... SEI Friend has a 20 year old son who just got a girlfriend pregnant. She wants him to move out and handle life himself and make whatever decisions he wants while I am the opposite. I would say “you’re my MY (owned you-I don’t know if this is more Fi than aristocratic) so I think you should think about how this will affect your life and if you want she can move in here and we’ll help raise baby.”
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    Yes! Here’s one... SEI Friend has a 20 year old son who just got a girlfriend pregnant. She wants him to move out and handle life himself and make whatever decisions he wants while I am the opposite. I would say “you’re my MY (owned you-I don’t know if this is more Fi than aristocratic) so I think you should think about how this will affect your life and if you want she can move in here and we’ll help raise baby.”
    Ah, I see. That's quite interesting, but yeah if I ever had kids (don't plan on it, I hate kids) I'd definitely try teach them to be more independent and make their own decisions.
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    Reinin's trait are heretic bs
    the same as to think your type as T
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    Reinin's trait are heretic bs
    the same as to think your type as T
    Did you just come here to try type me again? Cause if so, that is unrelated to the thread and should be posted somewhere else. You are free to have your opinion of my type, just as I am free to disregard said opinion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    Reinin's trait are heretic bs
    the same as to think your type as T
    Tell me something. What would you say or do and both if your 20 year old son got his gf pregnant?
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    I’m Aristocratic type and no Democratics are not a hindrance they just approach problem solving differently than I do. It’s good to have a different perspective
    Could you try to describe the difference in problem solving?
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Could you try to describe the difference in problem solving?
    I’ll try to find an example
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    This may not be an useful post, but I find the dichotomy useless for describing myself.

    Trying to describe myself as Aristocratic over Democratic or vice versa seems like an arbitrary process, because even if I merely divide things into the quick and the dead, I could still be said to be Aristocratic.

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    Ijs and Eps tend to think that their rationalizations are superior to that of others (aristocratic in appearance); however this also gives them better objectivity so they tend to be less bias about the information they receive. Ejs and Ips seem to like group participation in their rationalization processes (like in brain-storming sessions) so in that sense they do appear democratic; however they often get caught up in the moment and develop biases, which in the extreme, can produce something akin to reactionary or mob mentalities. Down deep, all democrats and aristocrats want things done their way, it's just that some from both groups become more successful at it......

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    Ijs and Eps tend to think that their rationalizations are superior to that of others (aristocratic in appearance); however this also gives them better objectivity so they tend to be less bias about the information they receive. Ejs and Ips seem to like group participation in their rationalization processes (like in brain-storming sessions) so in that sense they do appear democratic; however they often get caught up in the moment and develop biases, which in the extreme, can produce something akin to reactionary or mob mentalities. Down deep, all democrats and aristocrats want things done their way, it's just that some from both groups become more successful at it......

    a.k.a. I/O
    why do you put "a.k.a. I/O" at the end of every message?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    Reinin's trait are heretic bs
    the same as to think your type as T
    I don't know for other dichotomies, but I agree for this one. I think aristocratic/democratic traits can just be explained by funcion blockings (NF/ST vs NT/SF) and function sign, which make things clearer instead of more confused. I personally don't make classifications of people based on who they consort with and I don't know where that description comes from. I always thought that was a T-inferior thing to do. For me there are only the people I like and the others.

    The only way I relate to this dichotomy is that when SFs approach me in a very "in-your-face" way, my reaction is: "WHO the fuck you think you are???!". But even that can be explained by the fact that I am an NF and that I prefer to take social initative myself, and when I do it, it's in a intuitive/non-obstrusive way. I don't need loud demonstrations of love and want that approach to be is "mutual": NFs do the ethical approach and STs the physical. The "all in one" SF version just feels entitled(of my time and attention) to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    Yes! Here’s one... SEI Friend has a 20 year old son who just got a girlfriend pregnant. She wants him to move out and handle life himself and make whatever decisions he wants while I am the opposite. I would say “you’re my MY (owned you-I don’t know if this is more Fi than aristocratic) so I think you should think about how this will affect your life and if you want she can move in here and we’ll help raise baby.”
    That could be explained by the fact that you are Fi+ dominant/Ni+ demonstrative which is oriented at always increasing the degree of proximity in relationships/make sure that emotional life improves in the future. You just wouldn't want to "loose your son" and would want "the best future for him". Which of course is with you
    That's actually why EII needs the Fi- suggestive/Ni- polr of LSE. LSE would just leave, and the EII would need to learn to "let go".
    Jg djwjmjabujpo jt up tvswjwf, xf nvtu dvmujwbuf uif tdjfodf pg ivnbo sfmbujpotijqt - uif bcjmjuz pg bmm qfpqmft, pg bmm ljoet, up mjwf uphfuifs, jo uif tbnf xpsme bu qfbdf.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    I don't know for other dichotomies, but I agree for this one. I think aristocratic/democratic traits can just be explained by funcion blockings (NF/ST vs NT/SF) ...
    basically this is the idea Reinin dichotomies: it generates all pairs that halves the socion and assigns names to it. As such since it is hard to put in words because translating it into another language makes it less comprehensible as it can carry cultural package. In general people should not stare at labels.
    Measuring you right now

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    Quote Originally Posted by queentiger View Post
    why do you put "a.k.a. I/O" at the end of every message?
    On the socionics.com site (accessible but no longer active), I was known as I/O but I could not register with that handle on this site. I/O better represents the information processing models to which I subscribe......

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    That could be explained by the fact that you are Fi+ dominant/Ni+ demonstrative which is oriented at always increasing the degree of proximity in relationships/make sure that emotional life improves in the future. You just wouldn't want to "loose your son" and would want "the best future for him". Which of course is with you
    That's actually why EII needs the Fi- suggestive/Ni- polr of LSE. LSE would just leave, and the EII would need to learn to "let go".
    Fi Plus just means that I am willing to express my attitude and feelings about people like “I love you, you’re my son you move in with me!”

    “Positive subject ethics (+). My attitude to people. Necessity to express my attitude, opinion, feelings of love. Pleasant/unpleasant. My evaluation of a thing, an object, a person.

    Inverse subject ethics (-). I abhor, reject, detest.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    On the socionics.com site (accessible but no longer active), I was known as I/O but I could not register with that handle on this site. I/O better represents the information processing models to which I subscribe......

    a.k.a. I/O
    you could put it as your user title, then it shows up under your name for all posts without having to type anything extra

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    On the socionics.com site (accessible but no longer active), I was known as I/O but I could not register with that handle on this site. I/O better represents the information processing models to which I subscribe......

    a.k.a. I/O
    Do you know what signatures are?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heretic 007 View Post
    basically this is the idea Reinin dichotomies: it generates all pairs that halves the socion and assigns names to it. As such since it is hard to put in words because translating it into another language makes it less comprehensible as it can carry cultural package. In general people should not stare at labels.
    But then it doesn't create any new knowledge, right? They could have just deduced the differences btw the blockings without creating a dichotomy based on surface behaviours. From my point of view, it's just a useless step.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    Do you know what signatures are?
    Yes, but they don't seem like signatures; I prefer to make my own mark rather than use pre-stamped envelopes - old school, I guess. I also use a.k.a. rather than aka.....

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    Yes, but they don't seem like signatures; I prefer to make my own mark rather than use pre-stamped envelopes - old school, I guess. I also use a.k.a. rather than aka.....

    a.k.a. I/O
    Ok mate whatever floats ur boat

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    @Rebelondeck Do you happen to have me on ignore? Just checking. Poke poke, test test.

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    LII social mission: structural logic [Ti] + autism [Ni] (wanting the sameness) + also ignoring efficiency [Te] + getting force overload from others [Se]. LII confirmed.
    Measuring you right now

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    @Rebelondeck Do you happen to have me on ignore? Just checking. Poke poke, test test.
    I don't know to what you are referring????? I thought your comment #21 was also answered by my comment #24. If you're referring to somewhere else, you'll have to point.....

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    I don't know to what you are referring????? I thought your comment #21 was also answered by my comment #24. If you're referring to somewhere else, you'll have to point.....

    a.k.a. I/O
    Ok =) I was referring to that, and another conversation or two where my comments were skipped over, but don't worry about it. Didn't mean to alarm you or anything. It's not a problem and I'm not offended, was just checking so I'd know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by queentiger View Post
    So as a democratic type myself (self type as LIE, some have pointed out I could be ILE and I definitely agree it's possible - 4D Te/4D Ne either way and both are democratic) I am probably more bias to thinking that the democratic approach is "better". I was wondering if any of the aristocratic types on this forum could describe whether the aristocratic attitude has been more of a benefit or a hindrance to you in your life.
    this aged poorly, like ur genitals will in 40 years

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    this aged poorly, like ur genitals will in 40 years
    How did it age poorly?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    this aged poorly, like ur genitals will in 40 years
    Ben Franklin wrote of his time as Ambassador in Paris, that in his experience, women's genitals were the only thing that didn't age badly.

    Of course, he was writing in a time when 30 was considered to be over the hill and average life expectancy was 35-36.

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    Quote Originally Posted by queentiger View Post
    How did it age poorly?
    cuz ur type ILE now mate. cmon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Ben Franklin wrote of his time as Ambassador in Paris, that in his experience, women's genitals were the only thing that didn't age badly.

    Of course, he was writing in a time when 30 was considered to be over the hill and average life expectancy was 35-36.
    and then u remember that queentiger has a penis

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    cuz ur type ILE now mate. cmon
    I allowed room for that in my original post, learn to read.
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