Kelsey Grammer (LSE) receiving his antiphon of praise.
He's very different from Freddie Mercury (LIE) prototyping a song.
Kelsey Grammer (LSE) receiving his antiphon of praise.
He's very different from Freddie Mercury (LIE) prototyping a song.
(My name is Yon Yonson,
I live in Wisconsin.
I work in a lumber yard there.
The people I meet as
I walk down the street,
They say "Hello!"
I say "Hello!"
They say "What's your name?"
I say: (My name is Yon Yonson...
All posts licensed under the GNU General Public License. Some rights reserved.
Today I met a male ESI married to a female LIE. Absolutely astounding.
He looked like a goof, and she looked vaguely vampiric, but they seemed pretty happy with each other.
There is hope, even for such as I.
If you're willing to do something absurd, please watch A Goofy Movie by Disney and pay special attention (information processing) to Max Goof.Originally Posted by Adam Strange
(My name is Yon Yonson,
I live in Wisconsin.
I work in a lumber yard there.
The people I meet as
I walk down the street,
They say "Hello!"
I say "Hello!"
They say "What's your name?"
I say: (My name is Yon Yonson...
All posts licensed under the GNU General Public License. Some rights reserved.
What is it with ESIs and looking / acting goofy? I've seen that word come up on here more than once to describe the type, and I know I've caught myself acting that way before (especially when I'm by myself and being weird).
Vampiric for an LIE, now that's a first for me.
P.S. is it a turn-off to an LIE to see an ESI acting like a goof?
Last edited by spacious; 09-01-2024 at 08:13 PM. Reason: additional thought
ESI: "prissy yet sexual"
(can't find source for that description, let me know if you know it!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl6VhCAeEfQ&t=9s
it's difficult to analyze types when the way humans live is so different to what we have been used to for 99% of our time span. just 300 years ago you would have at most travelled to your nearby village and that would have been the trip of your lifetime and now you can easily travel across the whole planet on a whim. this will change in the very near future. I don't think the average person will drive a car in fifty years. it's hard to isolate what the natural behaviour of a type would be when there's so many options that people have.
I think there's a very high chance that our species won't survive the next few centuries. in america, you have a near 50% chance each election that someone wins who doesn't even believe that global warming is real. today in germany, 30 % of a federal state voted far right, 30 percent conservative, so 60% of people vote for parties that don't believe global warming is real. We simply won't fix this issue. I think many people are unable to make accurate long-term assessments, especially on vague information. I think our global, interconncted world will collapse within the next decades.
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ung-s-subjects
That's a good question ! I don't know the answer (I'm not LIE) but in socionics one of the specificities of the ID block in general and the ignoring function in particular is a strict "subordination" to the dual and/or socion expectations (programming). So maybe the LIE doesn't expect a goofy attitude from ESI or maybe the ESI won't display a goofy attitude in presence of LIEseven if of course everybody can be a bit goofy at close psychological distance (especially feeling types imho). Maybe Adam can give us some insights about this.
Anyway, It seems to me that there is like a form of taboo in the Ignoring function that each type doesn't want to transgress. In the case of ESI that would be Fe. Now take a look at this :
Source : Aushra's description of ILE : https://augustaproject.wordpress.com...haracteristic/|..] Programming takes place when the Id block is subordinated to the Super-Ego block of the dual. Therefore, in the behavior of each individual, there is not only a tendency to behave according to one’s own type of IM but also to treat others as if they were duals, to expect from them what only a dual can give. Showing dissatisfaction, which is especially evident in the non-dualized, about anything that does not conform to these expectations.
Subordination to the dual’s Super-Ego block is subordination not to the dual, but to the Socion, because the Super-Ego block does not manifest its own will, but only reflects the surrounding reality. The question of whether the information that accumulates on the Super-Ego is caused by random Socionic contacts (Socion) or by predominating types of contacts (a specific Socion) cannot yet be fully answered. It seems to us, however, that Socionic contacts and information received from the requestee predominate.
A couple of examples testify to how cautious the ILE is about other people’s time. The ILE is late for their train. There is no cab. Then a private driver pulls up and stops. “I won’t be late,” the ILE says with relief as they opens the door. “But I will be late,” retorts the driver. Although there is no doubt that this is a joke, the ILE becomes uncomfortable. In line, an ILE cannot lag one step behind the person ahead of them, because it might seem to the others that they are holding them up.
Equally, the SEI is afraid to impose their will on another person, the EIE their likes and dislikes, and the ESI their emotions.
Do you relate to some of the above ?
I'm starting to think that socionics isn't so much about development. Like we think lets learn our weaknesses to develop them and be more independant, I'm starting to think that socionics is more about exposing our dependencies instead of us developing ourselves to become more independent. Like, we are already dependent on the world around us to take care of our weaknesses. That's a big reason why people use services. For example, I don't do my own taxes, I use turbo tax, if that ain't Si mobilizing and suggestive Te idk what is lol. But I imagine we delegate alot of our weaknesses onto others or services around us. Delegating weak IMEs is probably big business. I think socionics does a good job of exposing those weaknesses and shows that there are not only people who can help us with them but people we can help aswell. And this might sound like co-dependency, and maybe it is, but I think most long term relationships have a little co-dependency in them anyway. So I don't think socionics teaches how to become independent but shows us who we can rely on and who can rely on us. I know Se egos ain't gonna like that one lol but hey, no man is an island.
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Last edited by Simple; 09-16-2024 at 04:10 PM.
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Last edited by Simple; 09-16-2024 at 04:10 PM.
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Last edited by Simple; 09-16-2024 at 04:10 PM.
Supervision-Supervisee means envious-envied.
Benefactor-Beneficiary means loyalty-fealty.
Hopefully.
(My name is Yon Yonson,
I live in Wisconsin.
I work in a lumber yard there.
The people I meet as
I walk down the street,
They say "Hello!"
I say "Hello!"
They say "What's your name?"
I say: (My name is Yon Yonson...
All posts licensed under the GNU General Public License. Some rights reserved.
Oh I don't think there's anything that can be done here. We are all just following our personalities (and I'm not talking about sociotypes here). We will continue to use fossil fuels, displacing 2-3 billion people that will lose their homes due to unliveable conditions, then they will try to move to the northern hemisphere to survive, and we will collectively enter some kind of war again. It seems like many people are already complaining about immigration at current rates, which makes me wonder if most of the western population would be willing to murder them at the borders when it becomes too much to handle. Our current way of living is nearing its end. hard to say what is important or not when it comes to human cognition as the framework that people are operating with is going to fundamentally change.
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ung-s-subjects
Sorry, @spacious. I didn't mean female ESIs. I've never seen a female ESI who looked "goofy", although about half the male ESIs look goofy to me. Not Bruce Springsteen, but definitely Bob Dylan.
The ESI personality is midway between male and female, so when a woman gets it, she displays an excess (from the female average) of the male traits of strength and intransigence, while also (usually) being beautiful. Sort of like Wonder Woman, or some Diana-like goddess.
When a male gets the ESI personality, he might like sports (if he is an ESI-Se) and he wants women badly, but is too ethical to just ask them to fuck like all of his buddies do, or if he is an ESI-Fi, he might be an introverted, bookish guy who wants to believe in some abstract "greater" and he appears timid and awkward around his ideal, dark and edgy and powerful woman, and he feels this awkwarkness acutely because he has ETHICS. And when his inner sexual fantasies are expressed, he seems like a very weird goof. Exactly like the guy in this video:
I love the guy in the video (he looks and acts exactly like my best ESI-Fi friend in high school), but I can't believe he gave up chasing LIE-Te Kate after one little bit of teasing. She, like all Extroverted Victims, wants to play, and the Game is tag. She gets his attention and then plays Hard to Get, but she doesn't want him to stop playing. "Chase me", she says.
She's testing him to see if he's an Introverted Aggressor, of course. She tests everyone she's interested in for this trait, and this is the way she does it.
Anyway, only male ESI-Fi's look "goofy" to me, although male ESI-Se's can look a bit weird, too. To me, they look very masculine, but bordering on gay. Female ESIs look like sports models if ESI-Se, and like nesting models if ESI-Fi. The former are great for activities, and the latter are best for living life together (with an LIE-Te).
Last edited by Adam Strange; 09-02-2024 at 02:19 PM.
Why do I call a female ESI-Se the "Sports model"? Because they look like this: https://imgur.com/Jfz2qV6
Why do I call a female ESI-Fi the "Nesting model"? Because they look like this: https://imgur.com/a/M4KoCPQ
Note the way the ESI-Fi shows that her ring finger has no ring, and her right hand is making a cup to accept the fingers of her left hand.
For the record, I've spent a lot of time with both of these women, so I'm not guessing. The ESI-Se is e6, and I believe that the ESI-Fi is e4.
The local library has a copy. If I can get some time away from work, I'll give it a shot.
@godslave, great post!!That's a good question ! I don't know the answer (I'm not LIE) but in socionics one of the specificities of the ID block in general and the ignoring function in particular is a strict "subordination" to the dual and/or socion expectations (programming). So maybe the LIE doesn't expect a goofy attitude from ESI or maybe the ESI won't display a goofy attitude in presence of LIEs
Anyway, It seems to me that there is like a form of taboo in the Ignoring function that each type doesn't want to transgress. In the case of ESI that would be Fe. Now take a look at this :
Source : Aushra's description of ILE : https://augustaproject.wordpress.com...haracteristic/
Do you relate to some of the above ?and oh, do i relate - YES!!!!!
such a good wording for the SEI, based on my experience with them. I will have to read some more from this writing of Aushra, hmmmmmmmmmm. Not sure if I've read it already but that writing from Reinin that I discovered in a different post was so, so good. Though I see some say that "Reinin isn't socionics." Anyhoo...
ESI: "prissy yet sexual"
(can't find source for that description, let me know if you know it!)
good description.
ESI: "prissy yet sexual"
(can't find source for that description, let me know if you know it!)
Hanging out with my LSE aunt who is visiting town, it sure is obvious to me that we're not duals. I admit I'd expected some more chemistry based on semi-duality, which maybe was a mistake to begin with since it wasn't thaaat long ago since I typed her and we don't see each other a ton, thus, I could be getting into the expectations problem. But I've been being my usual chatty (when around close people) self and I find that she isn't (or seems not) too interested in most of the remarks that I have to share. Either she misinterprets them (because I didn't give enough context for her to accurately interpret them) or she feels like there's no need to make any kind of follow-up remark / has nothing really to say back.
It reminds me of something I saw an LSE say on here, can't remember his username atm, he's not active anymore but used to post a lot, and it was that with the Ne polr of ESI, the Ne creative of EII works like 'feed' for (I forget which IMs of his, exactly) to respond to. So very short non-conversations, conversations - could indeed happen between a person with Ni polr and a person with Ne polr.
Plus, according to lavos and whatever model he follows, LSE'S Ni polr and ESI's Ne polr are 'the same' (somehow), both essentially not understanding 'the nature of things'. I have noticed my aunt say things like 'I said yes to xyz, I didn't understand what I was saying yes to, but I said yes' and I thought hm, that sounds like something i might say. Actually, I've been kind of shocked by how much "should" type thinking my aunt seems to have (someone should do this, someone else shouldn't do that). It almost reminds me of myself and of having sort of rash moral judgments!!!!! I was shocked/horrified/surprised to hear a T type making statements of this kind. Very different from how an LIE would speak, in my experience. Interesting.
I'm pretty sure an EII wouldn't make 'stating the obvious,' stream of consciousness type statements like how I would. I haven't really seen EII-LSE interact up close, at least that I've been aware of, but I know from reading posts on here that the Ne creative of the EII can be pretty crucial in moving the conversation along. I do talk quite a bit and like sharing what comes to my mind when I'm around people I trust, and while I have my dry wit, there's nothing Ne creative about the way I talk, obviously.
ESI: "prissy yet sexual"
(can't find source for that description, let me know if you know it!)
.
Last edited by Simple; 09-16-2024 at 04:09 PM.
.
Last edited by Simple; 09-16-2024 at 04:09 PM.
that seems like a very naive and childish thing to me. like you are just closing your eyes to reality. I'm too much of a long-term thinker to do that. maybe it works for you.
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ung-s-subjects
@Simple, I find your statement about superego to be very interesting. My ESI-Se interior decorator just moved in with a Ti-dom, most likely an LSI, but possibly an LII, and she seems to be sick all the time. Sick, and constantly on the verge of panic over the least things. I mean, ESI-Se's can be panicky, but she's worse than usual right now.
She's always had a thing for Betas. Her SOs (that I'm aware of) have been SLE, LSI, and now LSI/LII. Her mother is an EIE, and that might have something to do with her choices, but IDK. We all carry a lot of baggage from the expectations of our parents, and in many cases, it takes years to get rid of it.
In a second example of superego gone wrong, an LII boss asked me to recommend a project manager whom he could hire, so I recommended an ESI-Fi who is one of the best project managers I know. The LII hired him, and fired him after about sixteen hours of interpersonal interaction. The LII couldn't stand the guy, and the ESI had zero respect for the LII's personal management style, in particular, commenting that the LII was simply incapable of inspiring or motivating people to work for him.
Well, I thought, that's what money is for, but some people want more than money.
What would you consider to be the order of the best-to-worst ITRs? I thought Socionics said that Conflict was the worst, and I've read that some people think that Quasi-Identical is the worst. You are the first person whom I'm aware of to say that superego is the worst.
Upon what do you base your opinion?
Last edited by Adam Strange; 09-03-2024 at 12:58 PM.
I think that Semi-Duals and Mirage are both just short of Duality, and those two ITRs are where the "other person" transitions into the "my person". They are close enough to being exactly what you really want, to allow you to clearly see just what is lacking in the relationship.
Almost perfect, but not perfect.
Fi seeking is very noticeable in Adam. I can sense the direction in FDG also.
Someone typed me LIE here, an SLI, but Fi doesn't work me this way, at all.
No bottom pull.
Black & white is a shallow divide ∕∕division is the color that multipliesx
Taking things at face value is good only for a spell⛧
Abstract builds a soul, a house can never become a home without it ♀
A little better makes better more>
♦♦
One aspect of my type is easy for me: Harmonizer.
Bringing & wringing conflictions by the throat for universal harmony & rainbows.
Evidence is here in forum form.
Last edited by Distance; 09-03-2024 at 07:06 PM.
Black & white is a shallow divide ∕∕division is the color that multipliesx
Taking things at face value is good only for a spell⛧
Abstract builds a soul, a house can never become a home without it ♀
A little better makes better more>
♦♦
godslave is also rather harmony oriented, constantly giving compliments, and I would consider him normalizing. RaptorWizard is harmonizing, you are probably C or N
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ung-s-subjects
I get that out of gs.
I've known an ILI who is overly polite & filled with gentlemanly manners. Odd, but there. His nurture had a part in it.
Black & white is a shallow divide ∕∕division is the color that multipliesx
Taking things at face value is good only for a spell⛧
Abstract builds a soul, a house can never become a home without it ♀
A little better makes better more>
♦♦
he's the opposite to me in that sense. always makes sure people's answers are valued, tells them he appreciates their input, "likes" a lot of postings. for me it's more like a silent nod but I rarely respond to answers. godslave is miles better at that or has a different focus than me as it isn't my priority. it's ironic he's a hikki considering how oriented towards people he is. says a lot about our society
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ung-s-subjects
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/cRtjOR-3QpM
when people have the same or similar type and subtype and also look similar. subtypes (or personality traits) matter more than types. maybe some people who actually use their brain from time to time and don't think that every conservative is ST and Te is facts can get behind that idea, but I guess I'm on a site where every person that is analyitcal is just NT and every person that shows a mild degree of excitment is just F. what a dysmal place from an intellectual perspective.
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ung-s-subjects
My affective empathy is high, i mirror others' states and tailor my approach to how i read body language & intonations, very quickly.
When i say ''mirror'' we become one subconsciously. In the process i am considerate of others and work thru this channel, instinctively. It is not like i'm trained into it, in rote style, like you should do X because it is moral, be considerate because it is expected, but this happens organically. I feel your emotive presence and move accordingly.
That is my innate social benchmark.
Black & white is a shallow divide ∕∕division is the color that multipliesx
Taking things at face value is good only for a spell⛧
Abstract builds a soul, a house can never become a home without it ♀
A little better makes better more>
♦♦
There’s plenty of people who say super ego is the worst relation. It truly is a nightmare trying to communicate with your super-ego. At least with conflict, the two people occupy quite different spheres and thus can maintain some sort of distance, eg. One is an extrovert and the other an introvert. There’s a socionist who says that in reality, the discomfort levels in conflict relations do not match with what the theory says.
that’s interesting. My mother is my super-ego and I’ve never perceived our relationship as being as bad as what you are describing. It’s had its difficult moments (mainly my teenage years), but I’ve never doubted for one second that she loves me and wishes the best for me and I know that she doesn’t doubt that I love her. There’s even a certain level of (somewhat begrudging) mutual respect now that wasn’t there before. I guess it must make a big difference when your super-ego is dualised. Also, us no longer living together probably helps.
LII is cold-blooded communication style because she's made of ice.
Cool.
Maybe Panic! At the Disco is LSE. Seems like Sasuke Uchiha.
Last edited by CosmicCat; 09-09-2024 at 12:58 AM. Reason: Penis.
(My name is Yon Yonson,
I live in Wisconsin.
I work in a lumber yard there.
The people I meet as
I walk down the street,
They say "Hello!"
I say "Hello!"
They say "What's your name?"
I say: (My name is Yon Yonson...
All posts licensed under the GNU General Public License. Some rights reserved.
When I read your comment today , I had just finished the probably number one-hundred-millionth conflict with my conflictor
Souls know their way back home
[Yesterday 11:52 PM]Distance
: It is not very competitive, like the other half. Take away the clock, Ni speak, and you are timeless not waiting to grab onto the future somewhere in the forecast.
^Distance on Peter Pan.
Also the practically perfect font Helvetica is available on the16types.info. What a lovely website!
(My name is Yon Yonson,
I live in Wisconsin.
I work in a lumber yard there.
The people I meet as
I walk down the street,
They say "Hello!"
I say "Hello!"
They say "What's your name?"
I say: (My name is Yon Yonson...
All posts licensed under the GNU General Public License. Some rights reserved.
it’s interesting to me to notice how much more comfortable EIIs, my Kindred type, are in giving their opinion in group discussions, than I am as an ESI. Putting their Se polr aside, I’ve seen that have them hesitate to chime in — man, they can reaaally feel (come across as) confident, comfortable, witty, charming, and share what they think in ways that I wouldn’t dream of doing. It’s funny bc I don’t see it coming so it comes as a surprise, since in terms of our base functions we can relate so well.
ESI: "prissy yet sexual"
(can't find source for that description, let me know if you know it!)
It seems that there's no escaping the conclusion that really only Fe creatives can tolerate me (and to some extent, vice versa) in romantic relations. They have a capacity of forgiving you for being brain damaged in that department and I guess I find their weaknesses rather more endearing than bothersome.
I've been skeptical about the concept of ITR and duality and will remain so for purposes of not being dogmatic about anything, but if there's duality I'm certain that the forum member inumbra is dual to me.
I'm an LIE who has been working with an ILE, doing ten-hour days, for about six months. We are working on a project that we both want to succeed, but we don't understand each other at all. The worst part is that we tend to attribute mistakes to malice rather than to incompetence.
The ILE is back in the States for the summer and the summer is almost over, but so is the project. We are so close to finishing.
He had been married to an IEI for twenty-five years, and then he divorced her to live abroad for ten years. This pissed her off in the extreme, but she got their house and so she was happy about that.
Six months ago, he returned to the States because his country is a war zone and he, as someone who doesn't do Si or Se, wanted out. He actually moved back in with his IEI ex, and she has been subtly exacting revenge on him since then. He seems superficially oblivious to her pressure, but deep down, he can sense that something is very wrong.
Yesterday, he had intended to call his son, who has a kid of his own, to catch up on his son's progress, and there is nothing that an ILE likes better than to bond with his son, but the IEI wanted in to the call, and the ILE grudgingly let her be a part of it.
I wasn't present for the call, but afterwards, when the IEI had left, the ILE was in a very bad mood. He repeatedly plugged and unplugged two circuit boards while they were under power. This was part of his "debugging" routine, but it very effectively destroyed the boards and this isn't the first set of boards he has destroyed.
He seems to get upset over things he doesn't understand, and then starts smashing things, just like a little kid. Or like Elon Musk.
Was this an honest mistake, or was it intentional because he is passing his incoherent bad feelings along to me?
The main problem in dealing with people with different values is that you attribute their mistakes to malice.
I mean, I don't attribute errors like this to malice if the person is a Gamma. Stupidity, yes, but not malice.
Knowing this, I'm trying to put the best light on what happened, but man, uncontrolled Ne is not what you want to have when you are almost done with a project. He needs a tight-assed LSI as a overseer, who will force him to think things through before he just tries random stuff.
Quick question: could he have adhd? A lot of Ne egos have it and I've noticed it tends to drive Te types crazy sometimes. It's like living in chaos.
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