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Thread: Typology Random Thoughts

  1. #6281

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    ESEs have got to be the best types at pretending to work and getting out of obligations.
    You are talking about taken objective obligations and then objective results. It's Te. For F types is harder to use such criterions.

    To "pretending to work" predispose different reasons. Efficient management needs besides a control, a good planing and organising, motivation, using abbilities and personal attractions of wokers.
    Place ESE to a kitchen and those will be motivated and good there, with minimum of controlling need. Place them on calculations - and you should get problems instead of good results. Additionally, their significant efforts will be directed to keep the occupation, what makes results even worse.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  2. #6282

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusal View Post
    What can the rational/irrational dichotomy be confused with?
    examples:
    disorders as ADHD should change the behavior to common of P types
    good verbal skills (FN) and education allows (when wished) to talk with good structure to shift the behavior closer to J types

    > On description alone, maybe with valued and unvalued functions Ne-Si and Ni-Se

    bad theory understanding and lack of quality data may lead to anything
    valued functions is doubtful to understand without IR (including with yourself). or without cases of radical expression, to know which may need to know a human better than in typing interview and small public data

    I remember when "EII" said that likes one of violence/guro accented anime (Se value). This interest was not clear in questionnaire or interview, nothing of close. After geting doubts and gathering of different data, including IR with pals, I assigned IEI.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  3. #6283
    HeInin's Avatar
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    Noooooo!!
    Last edited by HeInin; 09-22-2023 at 12:38 PM.

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    Not sensitive! HolyKnowing's Avatar
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    Actually I'm not LII. @Ocean Man correctly discerned my type as ILI. A certain tell-tale sign that I must be ILI happened.
    [Today 03:36 AM] anotherperson: this forum feels like the edge of the internet

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    dewusional entitwed snowfwake VewyScawwyNawcissist's Avatar
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    https://linktr.ee/tehhnicus
    Jesus is King stops black magic and closes portals

    self diagnosed ASD, ADHD, schizotypal/affective


    Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality

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  6. #6286

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    The weirdest type to me is probs certain LIE-ni. Although I can think of one cool LIE-ni and one interesting LIE-ni. Weird to think ESE-si might see me this way- even though it’s the type I most idolise in a way.

    Edit: scrap that I remembered I had a crush on an LIE-ni once. Maybe it is more about women and generally about this type. But certain ones will stand out as cool.
    Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 09-23-2023 at 01:49 PM.

  7. #6287
    Psychic/Ghost Type Nunki's Avatar
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    If I understand Socionics correctly, an individual's PoLR is supposed to be their weakest information element. This makes no sense. If, for example, Ni is your strongest IM, your weakest IM should be its opposite, Se. When two things oppose each other, intensifying one of them makes the other weaker; e.g. more darkness means less light, and more light means less darkness.

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    Professional IEI Identifier Awake's Avatar
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2hzYmL2AkQ&t=258s

    occasionally watching speedrun explanations really makes me more and more convinced that Ni is perfectionistic, detail-oriented thinking. like, who else comes up with this stuff? it's obsessive, almost autism like thinking. this can be applied to aerospace engineering, or to people discussing 800 gender pronouns. most people in typology focus too much on character traits when they should be focusing on general patterns. one Ni base type can know all the variants of some horoscope, the next one has studied plants in-depth. they have nothing in common interest-wise, but they share the same detail-orientation.
    the majority of people who browse this site are IEI. intuition of time is the function that is interested in the psychological state of human beings. typology is a field dominated by INxx, especially IEI.

    list of people who I type as IEI:

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vQxpXaUDIfPgz4212tV1XQuLYDCgAKLPfIsMCkFhLl8dHfHbW SnrrLjSy5ZowCcREQuILQyQDPGKXk0/pub

    and a thread about IEI examples who look very similar

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...62#post1583162

    people who I think are EIE:

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/showthread.php/65999-Alive-s-EIE-example

  9. #6289
    dewusional entitwed snowfwake VewyScawwyNawcissist's Avatar
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    Woman on astro forum LSI
    Other woman trying to help me on astro forum LSI
    Gay LSI woman gay ILE male showed to me - he never met me with any other of his friends
    only person that I knew loked me in HS LSI
    Woman who helped me with human design LSI
    2nd woman ever besides the 1st who suggested sending me nudes LSI
    Idk who am I not counting or forgetting rn anyways there's a pattern
    https://linktr.ee/tehhnicus
    Jesus is King stops black magic and closes portals

    self diagnosed ASD, ADHD, schizotypal/affective


    Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality

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  10. #6290
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    In my Chinese class there's an SLE-Se 7w6 So/Sx who likes to grab me after class sometimes. I'm typically quite partial to my duals but this chick gives me such mixed feelings!

    I was thinking about it and I think the issue is that we're both Creative types. Whoever wrote this description has it on the dot:

    "Creative subtypes are drawn to other Creative subtypes. If they had to choose, they’d choose other Creatives. Despite them liking each other, these are unstable relation. Both want to be admired, so they can’t actually get that from the other. Example—relationships between actors are unstable.
    While they’re drawn to other Creatives, they’re most compatible with Harmonisers."

    Well, she's also an Se subtype and a 7. So she's always talking!
    ...
    I wanna be the talker! Boo

  11. #6291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alive View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2hzYmL2AkQ&t=258s

    occasionally watching speedrun explanations really makes me more and more convinced that Ni is perfectionistic, detail-oriented thinking. like, who else comes up with this stuff? it's obsessive, almost autism like thinking. this can be applied to aerospace engineering, or to people discussing 800 gender pronouns. most people in typology focus too much on character traits when they should be focusing on general patterns. one Ni base type can know all the variants of some horoscope, the next one has studied plants in-depth. they have nothing in common interest-wise, but they share the same detail-orientation.
    It's been said before but if we were ever to use such a loose and personal understanding of type, then there's no way Gulenko with his 64 subtypes is not a Ni lead and you, yourself very deep into Socionics, much more than the rest of us here with a website and everything like obsessively linking videos of 'IEIs' in the chatbox and autistically speaking into space about them there day after day after day etc, would be champion IEI. It appears to me Ti+Ne can delve deep into a theory. Can you name reasons why you're not an IEI? Careful, because you might start to list character traits instead of patterns.
    Last edited by Rusal; 09-27-2023 at 12:10 AM.
    Sicuramente cercherai il significato di questo.

  12. #6292
    dewusional entitwed snowfwake VewyScawwyNawcissist's Avatar
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    How does lie deal with cutting ppl of? They sleaze and serve assholes, and manipulate themselves into thinking the assholes mentality is noble. Now they have those fake noble pweful ppl supporting them while they together stomp the weak, inconvenient etc and justify it
    https://linktr.ee/tehhnicus
    Jesus is King stops black magic and closes portals

    self diagnosed ASD, ADHD, schizotypal/affective


    Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality

    I want to care
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    if I was better you’d be better

    Human Design 2/4 projector life path 1




  13. #6293
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    Type descriptions are more useful with people you've just met than with people you are more deeply acquainted with for some reason but some Harmonizers force you to use dichotomies. Especially rational vs irrational body language do jump at you sometimes. The basic markers for type are still there, like LSI harmonizing cannot be found in the usual type description but they will still typically be inflexible as a rod body wise. Subtype doesn't seem to affect energy core of the type, something I was wondering about Harmonizers for a while. We'll see if this changes when I meet more harmonizers.
    Sicuramente cercherai il significato di questo.

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    Man, even someone like James Dyson looks like an ethical Ni base type

    https://www.jsragency.com/wp-content...-1400x1867.jpg

    Here's what I think happened: a century ago >90% of the population would have never left their home town. Due to the infinite energy glitch called fossil fuels, strategic thinking Ni base types became the most dominant types in our current society, as monotonous physical labor isn't really all that valued anymore, and innovation and strategic distribution of rwesources are more prominent nowadays, so pretty much all ghe people you see on tv have the same three types, IEI, EIE and LIE. Think of all the autistic nerds in silicon valley and how computers, cars etc have shaped society in a very short time frame compared to the roughly 300000 years we existed before. Isaac Asimov wrote a book about human inventions and it was clear that most significant inventions have been made very recently in human history. I think the way our society works can't be maintained on a long term basis and it will likely all collapse like the fall of rome, especially technology, but some inventions might prevail as societies will have to exist in a more primitive form in the future
    the majority of people who browse this site are IEI. intuition of time is the function that is interested in the psychological state of human beings. typology is a field dominated by INxx, especially IEI.

    list of people who I type as IEI:

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vQxpXaUDIfPgz4212tV1XQuLYDCgAKLPfIsMCkFhLl8dHfHbW SnrrLjSy5ZowCcREQuILQyQDPGKXk0/pub

    and a thread about IEI examples who look very similar

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...62#post1583162

    people who I think are EIE:

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/showthread.php/65999-Alive-s-EIE-example

  15. #6295

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    Looking famouses at PDB points that Jung typology (in MBTI application version) is very popular in Southern Korea.
    It's Asian place with strong USA influence. It recently in 20th century got strong influence of external culture (Japan), what could predispose for easier acceptance of ideas from other cultures. Then happened an overlay of local cultural norms with western technology accented on occupation choices. The cross of collectivistic idea (what is stronger in now Asia) for serving to a society (by your better initial abbilities) with clear and simple method for this.
    Socionics, which is about same types but accented on marriage pairs choice, can become similarly popular there too. This needs 1) be better known there, 2) be overcome misleadings about what Socionics is alike: it's not Jung types, mainly uses physiognomy, obligately uses strange trash hypotheses, J/P switch nonsense, etc incompetent gossips.

    Places near Korea should to have the similar collectivistic culture. But. Japan and some other too hold for existing traditions. Other places were too covered from USA influence or had it reduced with low industrialization state.
    A good chance is that China and others will pay more attention to Jung types in some conditions. If Socionics will get minimum experimental proof for IR and preferably more objective methods of typing (IQ tests with tasks for every of 4 functions), then Asia may get significant interest and usage of Jung types. It would be other than today astrology-alike fans forums and practitioneers who use much of baseless hypotheses. Would be more scientific approach and more mass practice.
    Successful experiments (if they'll happen) which may be done in pre-science step and without which nothing would be then, most probably will be forgotten, be copied by other people who become as known. That "official wave" also will get material profits from ideas made not by them. The possible "income" of today alchemists is understanding their efforts helped to make life of some people better. Mb a little more.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Looking at some Sol's examples of ILEs I can't help but notice that they seem more streamlined in their personality that the ILEs I get to meet IRL.

    I find the latter terribly annoying in the sense that they seem to bite their own tail with no end point in sight.

    These are the small type of things that make me consider that Gulenko is coming to a closer ITR-valid version of Socionics and that the more traditional approach some hobbyists have come somewhat close but not quite there
    ????

    It's a shame that with a life out all that's left sometimes is just to wonder...
    Last edited by Rusal; 09-28-2023 at 08:43 PM.
    Sicuramente cercherai il significato di questo.

  17. #6297
    dewusional entitwed snowfwake VewyScawwyNawcissist's Avatar
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    Ni egos putting themselves in bad situation gives a PURPOSE to Se egos according to socionics theory. it gives them direction and something more menaingful to do than complaina bout how bored and frustrated they are then go scam and abuse someone - turn them into a victim instead of saving a vicitm.
    -vewynawcythoughts
    my problem with that is the Ni egos can abuse it and or put the Se egos in bad position if they are stupid.
    https://linktr.ee/tehhnicus
    Jesus is King stops black magic and closes portals

    self diagnosed ASD, ADHD, schizotypal/affective


    Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality

    I want to care
    if I was better I’d help you
    if I was better you’d be better

    Human Design 2/4 projector life path 1




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    dewusional entitwed snowfwake VewyScawwyNawcissist's Avatar
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    9 may be my weakest ennea and im not sure if its bc my body and health is so distorted and 9 is the perfect ennea. when u are whole th en u can make peace with thoers. in reality most 9s are broken and pushing it too.
    https://linktr.ee/tehhnicus
    Jesus is King stops black magic and closes portals

    self diagnosed ASD, ADHD, schizotypal/affective


    Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality

    I want to care
    if I was better I’d help you
    if I was better you’d be better

    Human Design 2/4 projector life path 1




  19. #6299
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    So here's my opinion on the functions:

    Every function diverges into an yet unknown amount of subtype variation in the sense that it potentially leads to different strenghts that can be very different from each other even if people have the same type, and these strenghts could be inborn. The most important aspect would be to figure out an overarching similarity and then go from there. With Ni it would be detail-oriented thinking that learns through repetition which can be a piano prodigy that practices over and over again to improve or the athlete that learns the same movement over and over again and so on. Ti is about reducing things to the essentials but what the person is actually able to reduce might be different among each Ti base type. In that sense there's kinda no point in saying that a person has "weak Te" or whatever as there's not really a definition for all these subtypes and it might also be that some functions really don't show themselves on a forum. I also think some definitions are pretty ridiculous, for example Te being associated with "facts". This would mean that weak Te types, even logical types like LSI and LII, are incapable of comprehending factual information like 1+1=2 which is just nonsense, and seriously makes me question the intelligence of someone making such a statement.
    Last edited by Awake; 09-29-2023 at 09:57 AM.
    the majority of people who browse this site are IEI. intuition of time is the function that is interested in the psychological state of human beings. typology is a field dominated by INxx, especially IEI.

    list of people who I type as IEI:

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vQxpXaUDIfPgz4212tV1XQuLYDCgAKLPfIsMCkFhLl8dHfHbW SnrrLjSy5ZowCcREQuILQyQDPGKXk0/pub

    and a thread about IEI examples who look very similar

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...62#post1583162

    people who I think are EIE:

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/showthread.php/65999-Alive-s-EIE-example

  20. #6300
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    "Expert" Ladies in communication who are targeting incel-like men have their own way of coaching. Their coaching style depends on their sociotype. Indeed, I've noticed that each coach will give their own version of "How to tell if a girl likes you" and stuff like that. They all have some common advice in terms of basics communication stuff (non verbal etc..) however when it comes to the details, what they want people to do is actually what works on her and how to decode her signals. It's like a projection of their own subjectivity of what is universal. So I think that typing those ladies first is a good way to proceeds. Then you'll have a good idea of how women of that type a) send their "Type customized" non verbal signals and b) how they like to be approached.

    Here are some examples :






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    I think Te is very much related to Micromanagement. Seems to want to control every external aspect similar to how Ti trusts its own subjective understanding too much sometimes.
    the majority of people who browse this site are IEI. intuition of time is the function that is interested in the psychological state of human beings. typology is a field dominated by INxx, especially IEI.

    list of people who I type as IEI:

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vQxpXaUDIfPgz4212tV1XQuLYDCgAKLPfIsMCkFhLl8dHfHbW SnrrLjSy5ZowCcREQuILQyQDPGKXk0/pub

    and a thread about IEI examples who look very similar

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...62#post1583162

    people who I think are EIE:

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/showthread.php/65999-Alive-s-EIE-example

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    I also don't think that Si is related to exceptional cooking like it is often potrayed, as I have met too many Ni base who were exceptional at creating extravagant dishes, while my Si mother usually cooks very plainly but I didn't mind it as much as a kid as I generally don't care all that much about taste as long as things aren't too unpleasant. I have observed with Se valuing types that their senses are much sharper on average, usually they are interested in more intense sensations like very spicy food. I wonder if the majority of functional descriptions are actually incorrect and outdated considering that Aushra developed the theory in a time before the internet and has therefore had a limited amount of observations to build the theory on.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/0qoem1CHb...vC-tzmHaDUUSrb

    This guy, who is imo an IEI, describes the way fruits taste quite in-depth and detailed, which would not fit for role Si in model A. I think he is very elegant with his descriptions

    https://youtube.com/shorts/eH3t4nGvF...Gur3XuNDDr_5Pe
    Last edited by Awake; 10-03-2023 at 11:03 PM.
    the majority of people who browse this site are IEI. intuition of time is the function that is interested in the psychological state of human beings. typology is a field dominated by INxx, especially IEI.

    list of people who I type as IEI:

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vQxpXaUDIfPgz4212tV1XQuLYDCgAKLPfIsMCkFhLl8dHfHbW SnrrLjSy5ZowCcREQuILQyQDPGKXk0/pub

    and a thread about IEI examples who look very similar

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...62#post1583162

    people who I think are EIE:

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/showthread.php/65999-Alive-s-EIE-example

  23. #6303
    jimi$dope one's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alive View Post
    I also don't think that Si is related to exceptional cooking like it is often potrayed, as I have met too many Ni base who were exceptional at creating extravagant dishes, while my Si mother usually cooks very plainly but I didn't mind it as much as a kid as I generally don't care all that much about taste as long as things aren't too unpleasant. I have observed with Se valuing types that their senses are much sharper on average, usually they are interested in more intense sensations like very spicy food. I wonder if the majority of functional descriptions are actually incorrect and outdated considering that Aushra developed the theory in a time before the internet and has therefore had a limited amount of observations to build the theory on.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/0qoem1CHb...vC-tzmHaDUUSrb

    This guy, who is imo an IEI, describes the way fruits taste quite in-depth and detailed, which would not fit for role Si in model A. I think he is very elegant with his descriptions

    https://youtube.com/shorts/eH3t4nGvF...Gur3XuNDDr_5Pe
    Say it! Say it! Say that elitism even in food and fragrance is Beta aristocracy! SAY IT Lolololol

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    Quote Originally Posted by one View Post
    Say it! Say it! Say that elitism even in food and fragrance is Beta aristocracy! SAY IT Lolololol
    There's certainly a point to be made here. Think of extravagent dinner parties with exotic dishes and flower bouquets. Or all these fashion shows with ridiculous outfits that are very artistic but uncomfortable and unpractical to wear in real life.
    the majority of people who browse this site are IEI. intuition of time is the function that is interested in the psychological state of human beings. typology is a field dominated by INxx, especially IEI.

    list of people who I type as IEI:

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vQxpXaUDIfPgz4212tV1XQuLYDCgAKLPfIsMCkFhLl8dHfHbW SnrrLjSy5ZowCcREQuILQyQDPGKXk0/pub

    and a thread about IEI examples who look very similar

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...62#post1583162

    people who I think are EIE:

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/showthread.php/65999-Alive-s-EIE-example

  25. #6305
    jimi$dope one's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alive View Post
    There's certainly a point to be made here. Think of extravagent dinner parties with exotic dishes and flower bouquets. Or all these fashion shows with ridiculous outfits that are very artistic but uncomfortable and unpractical to wear in real life.
    Mostly about status and formalizing what is "good" and even "right" not the taste or the aesthetic sense itself

  26. #6306
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    https://sociotype.xyz/
    i had no idea so many diff types of socionics tests existed in one site
    Last edited by necrosebud; 10-05-2023 at 07:42 PM.
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    based on the test^

    Ne > Fi > Fe > Si > Ni > Ti > Te > Se
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    Quote Originally Posted by one View Post
    Mostly about status and formalizing what is "good" and even "right" not the taste or the aesthetic sense itself
    My ILI neighbour travels to different countries to go to 5 star restaurants. He has a very good understanding about very specific flavors of dishes and cooks very well too. I call bullshit on Si being about these things. I think it's more about external, objective world and how it influences your body (Se), and how you focus more on your internal subjectice interpretation (Si). It explains why Ni base thinks they have cancer when they google a cold, and why Si is non-competitive
    the majority of people who browse this site are IEI. intuition of time is the function that is interested in the psychological state of human beings. typology is a field dominated by INxx, especially IEI.

    list of people who I type as IEI:

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vQxpXaUDIfPgz4212tV1XQuLYDCgAKLPfIsMCkFhLl8dHfHbW SnrrLjSy5ZowCcREQuILQyQDPGKXk0/pub

    and a thread about IEI examples who look very similar

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...62#post1583162

    people who I think are EIE:

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/showthread.php/65999-Alive-s-EIE-example

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    Quote Originally Posted by necrosebud View Post
    https://sociotype.xyz/
    i had no idea so many diff types of socionics tests existed in one site
    I love that website. It has so many different options for testing, and I think the tests are usually pretty accurate. I think it used to also give you a guess as to what DCNH subtype you are, but I don’t think it does that anymore?

    I used to always get EII-C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kuno View Post
    I love that website. It has so many different options for testing, and I think the tests are usually pretty accurate. I think it used to also give you a guess as to what DCNH subtype you are, but I don’t think it does that anymore?

    I used to always get EII-C.
    it gave me that function stack ^ but typed me as SEI lol
    And I think IEI, EII, and IEE were it’s other guesses
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    Quote Originally Posted by necrosebud View Post
    it gave me that function stack ^ but typed me as SEI lol
    And I think IEI, EII, and IEE were it’s other guesses
    Wtf?? So your strongest functions, according to the website, are Ne, Fi, Fe, and Si—in that order—and you got SEI?? I figured you’d get IEE as your main result, which is at least still Delta NF. Weird!

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    Quote Originally Posted by kuno View Post
    Wtf?? So your strongest functions, according to the website, are Ne, Fi, Fe, and Si—in that order—and you got SEI?? I figured you’d get IEE as your main result, which is at least still Delta NF. Weird!
    Ikr? Idk if it was dichotomies or something else that influenced the result haha
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    @godslave made an interesting comment in the Olivia Rodrigo thread about how her eyes do not match her smile. I think this sort of attention to other people's external expressions is a part of Fe. Like with Ni, I already mentioned that the functions likely diverge into several subcategories. Sometimes Fe is very expressive, social, talkative, reading moods, influencing them, but Fe might also show in someone who is generally unexpressive but pays attention to facial expressions. Charles Darwin, often mistyped as ILI, basically wrote a book about it. (The Expression of the Emotions in Man and Animals). John M. Gottman claims that you can predict relationship success by visible external emotional signs. Might be a field worth exploring. I think both Fe and Fi manage relationships, but Fi focuses more on internal, non visible feelings, while Fe pays more attention to outward signs

    I also think people who loudly celebrate during soccer or football are likely beta Fe
    the majority of people who browse this site are IEI. intuition of time is the function that is interested in the psychological state of human beings. typology is a field dominated by INxx, especially IEI.

    list of people who I type as IEI:

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vQxpXaUDIfPgz4212tV1XQuLYDCgAKLPfIsMCkFhLl8dHfHbW SnrrLjSy5ZowCcREQuILQyQDPGKXk0/pub

    and a thread about IEI examples who look very similar

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...62#post1583162

    people who I think are EIE:

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/showthread.php/65999-Alive-s-EIE-example

  34. #6314
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alive View Post
    @godslave made an interesting comment in the Olivia Rodrigo thread about how her eyes do not match her smile. I think this sort of attention to other people's external expressions is a part of Fe. Like with Ni, I already mentioned that the functions likely diverge into several subcategories. Sometimes Fe is very expressive, social, talkative, reading moods, influencing them, but Fe might also show in someone who is generally unexpressive but pays attention to facial expressions.
    Thank you !

    Indeed. I have to confess that my interest in non-verbal and facial expressions decoding stems more from a need to better understand people (and esp ladies's cues ! ) and differentiate what is inauthentic from authentic than a natural ability or skills (at least from my perceptive even if I do have a subjectively good judgement of character). When I discovered all that body language stuff (in the mid 90's) it was like a revelation. But as always when I study something, in the beginning I'm all for it because there is a lot to learn and then when I feel like I "get it" criticism and skepticism kicks in and I find myself wondering if there is any truth to it.

    When I discovered socionics years later, I began to realize that my skepticism about the "universality" of some non-verbal stuff was maybe justified. Indeed, I discovered that emotional expression and some body language cues didn't apply to everyone but only to certain kind of persons. In short, some of it was totally type (or temperament) related. But (I know it's weir to start a sentence with "But" !) here again, I'm not sure about the validity of a classification of people as systematic as socionics even if I'm still more in my "maybe it's true" phase and not in a total rejection phase. It's a fascinating hypothesis regardless.

    Temperament do exist, that's a certitude. Jung Types are as valid as the jungian psychology. Socionic is inspired by Jung's typology (but is not perfectly compatible with it and I'm absolutely categorical on this point despite what people might say) therefore its validity for the most part depends on that of Jung's typology which is perfectly and coherently integrated to the psychology he developed.

    I also think people who loudly celebrate during soccer or football are likely beta Fe
    Se is also a function that allows catharsis to occur. if Se is not expressed in a way or another then it is repressed and can be the cause of internal tensions and unresolved conflicts that can lead to some forms of somatic neurosis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alive View Post
    I also think people who loudly celebrate during soccer or football are likely beta Fe
    base Fe are most loud
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    I think writing systems get ultimatively invented through Ni+. Many of them are very symbolic and visual, but on a societal level it might be better to keep them simple. Think of the japanese kanji, arabic script, egyptian hieroglyphs, braille
    the majority of people who browse this site are IEI. intuition of time is the function that is interested in the psychological state of human beings. typology is a field dominated by INxx, especially IEI.

    list of people who I type as IEI:

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vQxpXaUDIfPgz4212tV1XQuLYDCgAKLPfIsMCkFhLl8dHfHbW SnrrLjSy5ZowCcREQuILQyQDPGKXk0/pub

    and a thread about IEI examples who look very similar

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...62#post1583162

    people who I think are EIE:

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/showthread.php/65999-Alive-s-EIE-example

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alive View Post
    I think writing systems get ultimatively invented through Ni+. Many of them are very symbolic and visual, but on a societal level it might be better to keep them simple. Think of the japanese kanji, arabic script, egyptian hieroglyphs, braille
    most scripts starts as symbols, representations of tangible objects, primarily used in administrative contexts (e.g. the Egyptian script; but the earliest found Chinese characters is connected with divination, which may be a question of incomplete record rather than an unusual instigator of writing). representing less tangible objects by transferred qualities of these symbols comes later. the stage where this can be called a true writing system comes when the signs are used to represent grammar of a language, being not just symbols for objects or concepts.
    to transfer qualities of an object to another object or a concept, representing its essence by metaphor or analogy, can be related mostly to Ne & Ti

    p.s.
    kanji are Chinese characters; the writing systems of Japan developed after contact with the literate culture of China
    Last edited by nifl; 10-07-2023 at 12:47 PM.

  38. #6318
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alive View Post
    @Subteigh here's an excerpt of an article I am currently working on. It's not really finished yet and just auto-translated. I have a friend in america that will probably translate it when it's done. I thought about waiting till the whole thing is finished but considering that I'm quite busy at the moment and writing takes more time than I expected (I have written like 14 pages and I plan to write at least six more and it took nearly two months to write all of it so far) and there's also not that much going on on this site, I thought I might as well share it here. I will probably work on a series of articles that will take a longer time but if you do something each day you gradually get closer to a goal I guess. I might also change some aspects later or cut parts out.

    The time intuition, Ni

    First I would like to mention that Viktor Gulenko's classification of the individual functions into plus and minus is a very constructive discovery in my opinion. In this article, I want to focus on Ni+, the intuition of IEI, which is described as a hopeful glimpse into the future. In fact, IEI is a positivist, so he cannot focus on negative aspects for long, but always needs an optimistic view and potential positive changes in the future. The absence of such perspectives can drive this sociotype to despair. The critic's intuition, ILI (Ni-), works in the opposite direction. ILI is a negativist, so this sociotype always has an eye on things that won't work, that should be avoided, or that are doomed to fail. ILI tends to focus more on avoiding mistakes or pointless ventures and pragmatically and impersonally judges its surroundings, whereas for IEI the concept of "hope" is crucial.

    In socionics, time intuition is described as the ability to use information in the present to predict the course of events in the future, but I think this aspect is only a small, specific part of this function. I would like to propose one more definition: Introverted intuition, to me, is detail-oriented, meticulous, and perfectionist thinking within a field of interest, as well as a diverse range of visual, literary, auditory, and performance creativity. It is idealized, visual thinking and the ability to visualize information in detail and plan strategically accordingly.

    When time intuition devotes itself to a project, it will deal with all eventualities, go to the root of things, analyze every angle, even if it means repetitive research. Deep penetration into complex structures, which can vary greatly depending on a person's interests, is typical of Ni. Individuals with Ni perceive life in terms of repeating patterns that help them predict certain events. For intuitive functions, a creative element is very important in order to act motivated, so it is important to note here that the excessive accuracy of time intuition relates only to a person's fields of interest, and in other areas they are completely careless, inattentive and unfocused can behave. In a way, this feature is paradoxical. In areas that are of interest to the individual, he or she will become an expert, while holding opinions in other areas that are inaccurate or may not correspond to reality. If a Ni-based sociotype does not build interests with specific goals, he or she will lead a passive life.

    Time intuition's tendency to meticulously gather information makes it a very ideological function. Once a Ni sociotype has researched an issue in detail and formed an attitude, it will be difficult to change the person's mind. It leads to a strong belief in one's own idealized path in life. Here one can observe the difference with possibility intuition, a function that changes attitudes relatively easily and rarely holds strong beliefs. I think almost all complex and sophisticated structures are created with time intuition. Over time, however, Ni's detailed thinking leads to over-bureaucratization as every eventuality has to be covered. In my opinion, typologies focus too much on type descriptions or personal traits and the focus should be more on finding overarching commonalities, such as the fact that people with time intuition have detail-oriented thinking, regardless of whether the person chooses technical machines or the emotional happenings in the environment.

    The introverted intuition learns best through repetition, through perfecting various processes and procedures. Ideally, such people find their vocation at a young age through their family environment or a mentor. It is important for such people to identify a creative inclination or strength early on and give them the opportunity to actively and meticulously work towards it. Because time intuition is paired with volitional sensing, many of these sociotypes value ambitious goals or complex, intense undertakings, and they very often pay attention to the references, qualifications, and achievements of people in their field of interest. Based on these aspects, they decide whether or not to rely on someone's information. In my observation, people with the time intuition have a pronounced tendency to evaluate and catalog things or to create lists for comparison.

    For Ni it is important to get to the root of a problem or concept, to get to the root cause, to gain a holistic understanding. This function isn't so interested in what is as what could be. Not infrequently she sees reality in fragments, or some kind of domino, snowball or butterfly effect, with a very strong awareness that any small changes or problems in the initial conditions of a system have a long-term impact on the system's development and prospects. The function therefore also loves to speculate and forecast. Other tendencies of this function, particularly found in the base function of IEI, are a potential inclination towards otherworldly concepts such as vision, prophecy, mysticism, divination, horoscope, spirituality, esotericism and destiny, the belief that one's existence has special meaning, or conversely, an active inclination towards philosophy, a reflection on one's role in the cosmos or soul, other people's motives. Time intuition can give a person a subjective gut feeling about who certain people really are deep down.

    Ni is usually a troubled, anxious, or even tense state of mind, although the person may appear calm on the outside. I suspect that this function is somewhat related to certain mental disorders such as bipolarity, borderline personality, and schizophrenia, particularly when the person has high levels of neuroticism. In some cases, the introverted intuition can act separately from the physical state, for example reflecting on reality as a whole, one's sexual identity, or ignoring physical injuries. In a strongly fixed form, it is likely to lead to autistic tendencies and behavioral patterns. Some people of these types easily develop obsessions or a fascination with conspiracy theories, a belief that secret machinations or intrigues are going on behind the curtain that are not visible to the naked eye. Because time intuition is dedicated to a specific path in life, these people can find it very difficult to mentally let go of something. I also think that intelligence tests are built around some aspect of this function, as they often involve figurative time-ordered questions ("which picture logically follows the next?"). What society defines as "giftedness" is probably a distinct, specific form of time intuition.

    Ni+, the base function of IEI, the dreamer and visionary

    At this point I would like to make a point that is very important to me: I have been involved with art and science most of my life, from music, film, painting, photography, architecture, poetry, to the natural, literary and language - and humanities. I have also studied the fields of physics, chemistry and mathematics. I wouldn't call myself an expert in any of these fields, and ultimately I study them out of sheer aimless curiosity, but it seems quite obvious to me that all outstanding scientific discoveries and innovations, all extraordinary artistic talents, are the result of the time intuition+ of the personality type IEI. In my eyes, Ni+ is the most abstract of the cognitive functions that is actively interested in new concepts of any kind. I think IEI is the first sociotype to try new innovations or technologies. This quest for novelty can relate to many different areas, and here are a few scientific and artistic examples of my hypothesis:

    The most obvious theory that was discovered through time intuition is probably the theory of evolution, which describes the development and change processes of living beings over the course of the earth's history. It states that species have evolved through natural selection and genetic changes over time. The theory of evolution postulates that all living things on earth descended from a common ancestor. Over time, these ancestors branched out into different species to create the variety of life we observe today.

    The theory of relativity in physics deals with the structure of space and time. It describes, for example, the relativity of simultaneity, that events that appear simultaneously to one observer can be arranged differently in time for another observer due to their relative speed, or the idea of time dilation, which leads to the fact that time for a moving observer slower compared to a resting observer.

    A currently very relevant field of time intuition is climate research, the main goal of which is to reconstruct the past, monitor current changes and use this information to predict future developments and forecasts of global warming. Climate researchers use models to simulate complex interactions in the climate system and to forecast future climate changes. Time intuition gives a person an awareness that many things are directly connected, e.g. that our entire current civilization is dependent on machines and fossil fuels. These machines, which produce material goods, transport people, harvest food, heat homes, make this article possible to read, are powered by internal combustion engines and oil, coal and gas and have increased human wealth and life expectancy. This comes at a price, however, as all of these fossil fuels change the composition of the atmosphere and increase the greenhouse effect. The technologies that people currently take for granted in everyday life were created in a historically very short period of time. If, over time, these machines can no longer be operated due to extreme weather or destroyed supply chains, people's lives and international political structures will change fundamentally.

    Ada Lovelace, who saw herself as a "poetic scientist," had a visionary imagination. She speculated on the abilities of computer programs, discussing the possibility that they might one day compose music and generate graphics. Their visions went far beyond what was technically possible at the time. Nikola Tesla was able to visualize an invention in his mind with extreme precision before moving on to the design phase. He had frequent flashbacks to events that happened earlier in his life. In addition to his research, he has written poems and writings with poetic elements. Tesla was known for his elegant looks and well-groomed appearance, but there are also people who are completely lost in their imagination and place little value on reality and their appearance. One such example is the mathematician Grigori Perelman, who in 2002 provided a proof of the Poincaré conjecture, one of the most important unsolved mathematical problems. For this achievement he was to receive the Fields Medal, one of the highest awards a mathematician can receive and a large sum of money, however he has chosen to decline this award and live a life of seclusion and isolation. I think many people with strong, abstract imaginations find it difficult to function in society or even develop an interest in reality. Terms such as neets, shut-ins or hikikomori have been established internationally to describe this phenomenon.

    Artistic themes are often represented in Time Intuition through the use of metaphor, allegory, and symbolism. The highly visual component of this role gives such people a keen imagination and they can, for example, lose themselves in imaginary roles or scenarios that do not correspond to reality, making them particularly useful as actors or entertainers. People with time intuition hone their talents through constant exercise and practice. For the different artistic areas, I would also like to give some examples that have left a strong influence in their respective fields and are of particular importance:

    In the film 2001: A Space Odyssey, Stanley Kubrick visually spans the full arc of human life, exploring concepts such as human evolution and artificial intelligence. The film begins with the beginnings of mankind and ends with a futuristic vision in outer space. A mysterious monolith influences human development several times in the film and the protagonist of the film achieves a transcendence to a higher level of consciousness at the end. Another important film is Andrei Tarkovsky's The Mirror, a deeply personal work that weaves together memories, dreams and reflections from different stages in the director's life. Through a series of visually stunning sequences, the protagonist's emotional journey and the collective experience of an entire generation is portrayed. I think Ni+ is associated with an idealized perception of memories and with a sentimental view of the past. It leads to frequent reflection on one's state of mind.


    Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon album reflects on life and death and how people generally don't appreciate what they have and get caught up in materialistic ideals. The album's centerpiece, the song "Time", is about the way time can determine the course of a person's life. The song is about the ephemerality of one's existence and how people wait for the right amount of time before beginning their real lives. It's a stark warning for those who remain focused on everyday things. David Bowie's album Blackstar, released two days before his death, contains many metaphysical and symbolic elements that refer to the passage of time and the finitude of life. Many of his lyrics and artistic choices on the album have been interpreted in hindsight as allusions to his own mortality. In the song "Epitaph" by King Crimson from the album "In the Court of the Crimson King", the band addresses a dark version of humanity and society marked by conflict, violence and impending doom. Despite the somber mood, the song also expresses a longing and hope for a better situation and a new beginning.

    An introspective and psychologically complex tale, Fyodor Dostoyevsky's short story "White Nights" (or "Four Nights of a Dreamer") is about a young man struggling with the problems of society and himself. The story explores existential themes such as isolation, loneliness, the meaning of life and the inability to find a place in modern society. “The Trial” by Franz Kafka is pervaded by a diffuse sense of time. The time that elapses in the novel becomes a metaphorical representation of bureaucracy, the loss of individual control, and an individual's struggle against the opaque forces of society. In the novel The Picture of Dorian Gray, the protagonist Dorian makes a kind of "pact" in which he wishes a portrait to age in his place, bearing all the marks of his sins, while himself remaining untouched. This allows him to lead a life of joy, lust and decadence without experiencing any external consequences. However, as the story progresses, Dorian gradually loses all moral inhibitions and becomes a reckless and immoral man. His portrait, on the other hand, keeps getting uglier, showing the effects of his destructive behavior. The story explores the ideas of duality, identity and the inner conflict between externals and the true self. Other writers invent their own fantasy worlds and imaginary scenarios, often found in sci-fi or fantasy literature.


    Sigmund Freud's "The Interpretation of Dreams" deals with the unconscious and proposes that dreams can provide insights into repressed desires, fears and conflicts that arise through a process of encryption, whereby repressed or threatening thoughts and desires are hidden from consciousness remain. Carl Jung's "Red Book", which contains numerous poems, illustrations and artistic representations, is a kind of personal diary in which Jung records his dreams, visions and self-reflections. The socionics developed by Aušra Augustinavičiūtė builds on the concept of intertype relationships, which attempts to describe the course of relationships over time.

    I think such pronounced manifestations of Ni+ are rare (in terms of science and art) and Ni+ can show up in basically any area that requires organization or planning and temporal understanding, from history, technology, engineering, to to geopolitical analysis, learning visual characters, or contemplating various ethical and social constructs, as well as competitive sports. Contrary to the established belief that outstanding athletes have volitional sensing as a basic function, I think that time intuition plays the biggest role in athletic success, since very successful athletes usually start training in childhood and develop their skills through repetitive processes and perfect long-term planning. They are people who work meticulously towards success throughout their lives and endure many social deprivations in order to fulfill a childhood dream, regardless of what sport the person pursues. It should also be noted that a sporting career is not a pragmatic way of life with a secure income, which sensory professionals usually choose. Very few athletes make a living from their achievements, but few pay attention to the vast majority of those who fail to make it to the top. Time intuition locks into a direction they wish to follow throughout their lives, meaning they are more likely to become experts or achieve goals, but it also means they can lock into a specific path that is relevant to society appears confusing, incorrect, or no longer appropriate to the circumstances. It is almost impossible for people with Ni to switch to an alternative once they have committed themselves to a path because they have a repressed intuition of possibility (Ne) which I will describe below. I also think that the vast majority of people who upload videos of themselves to internet platforms or appear on television, and probably the majority of historical figures, as well as most public figures, belong to the IEI sociotype. I think it's the personality type that's most common in big cities and metropolitan areas. It is also the personality type most interested in typologies such as socionics.

    I hope all this information gives a good overview of how this feature works and how different people can be despite their identical personality type in socionics, on the other hand all these people have in common that they are trying to be creative in the world to realize. I want to sensitize people to the fact that there is a very high amount of variability between people of an identical type and in a subjective field like psychology and human perception it will hardly be possible to make objective predictions.

    A vivid example of time intuition, I think, is the game of chess, in which all the pieces correspond to a specific rank in society, and the game is practiced with detailed memorization of openings and strategy, where anticipatory, tactical skill leads to victory. Ni strategically coordinates the events of his area of interest. Such aspects play a lesser role in the possibility intuition (Ne), which I would like to come to now.
    It's certainly interesting and must have required a significant amount of effort. But it's more poetic to me than anything else, now that I don't consider Socionics useful. A criticism of models like the Big Five is that they don't have these kind of portraits (complex descriptions), because they "only" measure what they see: but to me, that's better than describing something that isn't empirical. Also, traits in objective instruments do have predictive value about life outcomes and behaviours that were not measured: That to me means a system that does give meaningful descriptions about personality - Socionics simply does not have that, and I predict it never will.

  39. #6319

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    How F type noobs fool each other.

    Emotional people play in relations and being friends anywhere. They come to typology forums and notice similar noobs to them, and same incompetent ones. The are naive and wish be pleasant for each other, so tend easier agree with opinions of each other and unconsciously tend to fit those opinions to wished (or already supposed) types.
    The situation is that F types noobs set opinion of similars to them noobs above the reason and opinions of those who should to have better skills and typology understanding. It's also lesser often when opinions of noobs are correct, compared to opinions of more skilled ones with who thereafter they often do not match.
    Those noobish opinions are not only about what types have they and other people, this also relates to theory understanding and usage. Muddy doubtful parts of the theory and new heretical additions help to rationalize wished types, mismatches of the seen with basic theory, and are accepted easier due to naive noobs incompetence and lesser rational approach.

    On practice we get noobs F types groups with self-supporting each other in idiocy. Rather stubborn to external opinions, due to irrational approach to establish own opinions. Those groups can be 2 or more people. Where personal similarity and emotional contact is valued higher than objectivity and reason.
    As it's F types and predisposed to irrational relations above the truth, sometimes such groups catch the influence on mods (or become their part) and then input restrictions against appearance of opinions which are shared between them. Having lack of competence and significant irrationality, F type noobs are lesser assured in own opinions and it's hard for them to protect opinions in discussions, so they embed typology censorship on sites. As this happens from incompetent ones, the said corruption predisposes to removing from the site those who understand typology better and have higher interest to types. Other side of F types influence on mods is enlarging % of messages on themes far from typology, as those noobs do not understand types good to value them high, but want to talk and see typology forums as just another place for mindless flood.
    In common, such F flooders after long presense on typology sites with inabbility to understand their theme to be able notice a usefulness leads to forming negative relation to Jung typology. To higher interest in mess of additional baseless hypotheses and in other typologies, which mainly are baseless hypotheses too (as common situation for humanitarian "sciences"). Flooding and irresponsible heretical approaches get additional support, with turning sites to useless and mindless trash. Significantly becoming opposite to initial idea for such sites to be.
    Last edited by Sol; 10-09-2023 at 12:25 PM.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  40. #6320
    necrosebud's Avatar
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    EII
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    How F type noobs fool each other.

    Emotional people play in relations and being friends anywhere. They come to typology forums and notice similar noobs to them, and same incompetent ones. The are naive and wish be pleasant for each other, so tend easier agree with opinions of each other and unconsciously tend to fit those opinions to wished (or already supposed) types.
    The situation is that F types noobs set opinion of similars to them noobs above the reason and opinions of those who should to have better skills and typology understanding. It's also lesser often when opinions of noobs are correct, compared to opinions of more skilled ones with who thereafter they often do not match.
    Those noobish opinions are not only about what types have they and other people, this also relates to theory understanding and usage.

    On practice we get noobs F types groups with self-supporting each other in idiocy. Rather stubborn to external opinions, due to irrational approach to establish own opinions. Those groups can be 2 or more people. Where personal similarity and emotional contact is valued higher than objectivity and reason.
    As it's F types and predisposed to irrational relations above the truth, sometimes such groups catch the influence on mods (or become their part) and then input restrictions against appearance of opinions which are shared between them. As this happens from incompetent ones, the said corruption predisposes to removing from the site those who understand typology better and have higher interest to types. Other side of F types influence on mods is enlarging % of messages on themes far from typology, as those noobs do not understand types good to value them high, but want to talk and see typology forums as just another place for mindless flood.
    In common, such F flooders after long presense on typology sites with inabbility to understand their theme to be able notice a usefulness leads to forming negative relation to Jung typology. To higher interest in mess of additional baseless hypotheses and in other typologies, which mainly are baseless hypotheses too (as common situation for humanitarian "sciences"). Flooding and irresponsible heretical approaches get additional support, with turning sites to useless and mindless trash. Becoming opposite to initial idea for such sites to be.
    Do you think that "T types" can also be prone to biases? What about unconscious emotional influences on the T types decision making, which they themselves may not be entirely aware of? Or motivations to hold up a certain ego (or related to your sense of self) goal, even if it doesn't necessarily correspond with "reality"? Can they be irrational?
    EII ⊱✿⊰ 4(w5) 96 sx/so

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