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Thread: let's have a discussion on ESI-Fi contrasted to ESI-Se.

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    Default why not have a discussion on ESI-Fi contrasted to ESI-Se?

    • Se type is more common among people with mtDNA haplogroup K and D (and H to a lesser extent). Fi type is VERY common in people with mtDNA haplogroups J and T and L.
    • Se-type has a more visual learning style and have excellent visual processing/awareness; Fi-type is much more auditory.
    • Se-type has better coordination, less likely to trip, movements are smoother.
    • Se-type uses deductive reasoning and doesn't miss visual details anywhere near as much, Fi-type is inductive in thought and neglects details especially doesn't notice visual cues in the environment and isn't good at true/false questions because they miss key words. Se-type keenly perceives key words.
    • Se-type is more mentally stable (less anxious, less needy, very unlikely rage).
    • Se-type is always enneagram 6 core (often 468 tritype), Fi-type is 9 or 2w1 (126). Fi-type is the most common of all 32 types among schizophrenics. Fi-type is also prone to bipolar disorder.
    • Se-type is warmer and more gentle than Fi-types; they truly use the MBTI functions Si, Fe, Ti, Ne in order. Fi-type plays favorites, is more racist, more sexist, unlikely to be feminist, more likely to have visceral hatred for individuals and more likely to lose control and to turn physically brutal (yes, 2w1s can be very cold, hateful, and violent).
    • Se-type frequently marries ILE-Ti. However, ILE-Ti hates ESI-Fi and ESI-Fi gets annoyed by them as well.
    • A higher percentage of female ESIs are the Se-type than male ESIs (enneagram type 2 is actually more common in males than females; look at how much prettier/feminine Enneagram type 8 women are than Enneagram type 2 women; the Enneagram Institute website has them listed though Jennifer Tilly and Sarah Jessica Parker are 8s not 2 and not 6, respectively).
    • Fi-type finds it harder to adapt to new environments and new people, even though the opposite would be expected from the enneagram types.
    • Fi-type gives unpleasant-sounding commands, especially if they lose control of their anger. Se type just gives information or simply takes action without saying anything.
    • Fi-type is more serious in demeanor though their humor is more light-hearted if they joke at all.
    • Fi-type makes "dad jokes", Se-type's humor is more sophisticated.
    • Fi-type is a lot more internally and physically strained, is a lot more likely to panic in danger.
    • Fi-type looks more masculine and less gentle.
    • Fi-type uses harsher sounding words and talks in a more commanding, harsher, less gentle tone than the Se-type.
    • Se-type is much more likely to have a biological mother and/or maternal grandmother who were left-handed.
    • Se-type has much longer legs but members of both types are usually pretty slim.
    • Se-type is more common among popular artists (singers, actors, actresses, etc., etc), entrepreneurs, bank directors, intelligence officers, police officers, military, and technicians (Se-type makes good use of introverted thinking). Fi-type is more common among govt workers, workers for large corporations, and the unemployed.
    • Se-type has much softer voice, Fi-type speaks a lot louder
    • Se-type parents are much less strict with their children and see themselves as guides rather than rulers, Fi-type parents are the most restrictive of all 32 types and resort to hitting their children while the Se-type doesn't.
    • Se-type is much more loose and casual, has greater ease of social interaction, is more open-minded.
    • Se-type is much less predictable and their work is a lot more original, they're more creative.
    • The Fi-type plans much more.
    • The Fi-type is much more likely to say "it's definitely going to happen" while the ESI-Se is much more oriented to the present and doesn't try to think too far ahead.
    • The Fi-type can appear to favor the obstinate, declaring, farsighted, emotivist, aristocratic, and judicious dichotomies.
    • The Se-type handles Fe better and can appear more Fe-valuing even though it should be the other way around based upon inert functions supposedly drained.
    • The Se-type is much more attuned to other peoples' moods.
    • The Se-type is more playful, can "let loose" much more easily.


    Look at the difference in the quotes between George HW Bush (Se-type) and Obama (Fi-type) on their wikiquote pages and in Bush's interview with Larry King vs videos of Obama. Bush was a lot less cold to his mother than Obama was towards his, and is much more comfortable and elegant speaking about his emotions towards people and relationships while Obama can't really decide whether he wants to appear as a cold "thinking man" or a nice person. The Se-type is much less dissatisfied with the world and their relationships, while the Fi-type thinks they want to change the world. Bush was much more soft-spoken than Obama and his language was a lot less harsh than Obama's.

    Major contrasts between the two subtypes are also shown in the Kaine/Pence debate. Kaine was the Fi-type, Pence was the Se-type. That just shows how much calmer, smarter, and more gentle the Se-type is.

    Something else kind of intriguing, is that the Se-type are common among police officers and in military combat, even the marine corps yet are much more gentle, while Fi-type is too internally sensitive, anxious, not visually aware enough, and not coordinated enough to be in combat yet is a lot harsher; Wilhelm Keitel was the Se-type while Adolf Eichmann was the Fi-type.

    Please critique/correct this post if you see anything wrong or think anything is wrong in it. Maybe I made a lot of errors, so I want to be corrected wherever I'm wrong and want more information=)
    Last edited by Disturbed; 11-28-2019 at 12:18 AM.

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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    your list is mixed up
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    your list is mixed up
    How is it mixed up? I thought about half of it matched my experience.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    I find this accurate
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Disturbed View Post
    Se type is more common among people with mtDNA haplogroup K and D (and H to a lesser extent). Fi type is VERY common in people with mtDNA haplogroups J and T and L.
    How have you ascertained this? Also; what would it mean?

    Se-type has a more visual learning style and have excellent visual processing/awareness; Fi-type is much more auditory.
    Seems correct. Fi subtype also seems more requiring of a formal learning enviroment, Se-Subtype is more self taught.

    Se-type has better coordination, less likely to trip, movements are
    smoother.
    Seems correct. Fi subtype has more "bulky" movements.

    Se-type uses deductive reasoning and doesn't miss visual details anywhere near as much, Fi-type is inductive in thought and neglects details especially doesn't notice visual cues in the environment and isn't good at true/false questions because they miss key words. Se-type keenly perceives key words.
    Seems correct.

    Se-type is more mentally stable (less anxious, less needy, very unlikely rage).
    It seems so, on the surface. The thing is that ESI-Se's are less emotional and more logical due to good use of role function. Some ESI-Se males are kinda aggresive though.

    Se-type is always enneagram 6 core (often 468 tritype),
    1w2 is also common among ESI-Se's.

    Fi-type is 9 or 2w1 (126).
    2w3 and 6w5/7 are also common.

    Fi-type is the most common of all 32 types among schizophrenics. Fi-type is also prone to bipolar disorder.
    This seems a bit biased. From what data have you drawn this conclusion? ESI-Fi is prone to bipolar disorder because they're more emotional than ESI-Se. After some trauma, an ESI-Se might be more likely to become a psychopath, whereas the ESI-Fi might become bipolar, which objetively speaking seems less dangerous.

    Se-type is warmer and more gentle than Fi-types
    It seems so in appeareance, Se subtype seems more sympathetic, but they're actually less empathetic than Fi subtype (due to bad Ignoring).

    they truly use the MBTI functions Si, Fe, Ti, Ne in order.
    MBTI doesn't translate well into socionics terms. Unsure.

    Fi-type plays favorites,
    Yes.

    is more racist, more sexist, unlikely to be feminist, more likely to have visceral hatred for individuals
    Higher propensity for intolerance, yes.


    and more likely to lose control and to turn physically brutal
    Unsure about this.


    Se-type frequently marries ILE-Ti. However, ILE-Ti hates ESI-Fi and ESI-Fi gets annoyed by them as well.
    Don't know personally this couple IRL, but I've seen ESi-Fi's chase ILE-Ti's much to my amusement. Se-sub seems more clever in who they associate with, they do it less on impulse and more rationally.

    A higher percentage of female ESIs are the Se-type than male ESIs
    (enneagram type 2 is actually more common in males than females; look at how much prettier/feminine Enneagram type 8 women are than Enneagram type 2 women; the Enneagram Institute website has them listed though Jennifer Tilly and Sarah Jessica Parker are 8s not 2 and not 6, respectively).
    Unsure about all this.


    Fi-type finds it harder to adapt to new environments and new people, even though the opposite would be expected from the enneagram types.
    Yes, they're kind of insular. It's they, and "their people".

    Fi-type gives unpleasant-sounding commands, especially if they lose control of their anger.
    Yes.

    Se type just gives information or simply takes action without saying anything.
    Or simply ignores you. Not as likely to lash out.

    Fi-type is more serious in demeanor though their humor is more light-hearted if they joke at all.
    Fi-type makes "dad jokes", Se-type's humor is more sophisticated.
    Fi-sub humor is kinda simple and sometimes in bad taste. Se humor gives more appeareance of intelligence.

    Fi-type is a lot more internally and physically strained, is a lot more likely to panic in danger.
    Despite being sort of more "heavy set" visually (vibe,etc, usually), they're less stable, and react worse and/or slower to stressful situations.

    Fi-type looks more masculine and less gentle.
    You mean both genders? Unsure.

    Fi-type uses harsher sounding words and talks in a more commanding, harsher, less gentle tone than the Se-type.
    Fi sub subtype also sounds dryer, Se-sub sounds more upbeat.

    Se-type is much more likely to have a biological mother and/or maternal grandmother who were left-handed.
    No idea.

    Se-type has much longer legs but members of both types are usually pretty slim.
    NTR.


    Se-type is more common among popular artists (singers, actors, actresses, etc., etc)
    I actually think Fi sub is more prone to these.

    entrepreneurs, bank directors, intelligence officers, police officers, military, and technicians (Se-type makes good use of introverted thinking).
    correct.


    Fi-type is more common among govt workers, workers for large corporations, and the unemployed.
    They also like being doctors, farmers, and laborers in general.

    Se-type has much softer voice, Fi-type speaks a lot louder
    Doesn't seem very type related, but ESI-Fi tends to have a more commanding voice. I've seen female ESI-Fi's that speak very softly too.

    Se-type parents are much less strict with their children and see themselves as guides rather than rulers
    Both are kinda strict.

    Fi-type parents are the most restrictive of all 32 types and resort to hitting their children while the Se-type doesn't.
    I don't think hitting children is type related, beyond having issues or being scummy. Sorry, but this sounds a bit biased.

    Se-type is much more loose and casual, has greater ease of social interaction, is more open-minded.
    They have more "flow" in conversation. They're also more inventive, less traditional, more random, more playful, more openminded, while at the same time more trustworthy and simpler (without any negative connotation) people. This is all a consenquence of better (complete) +Ni/-Ne HA.

    Se-type is much less predictable and their work is a lot more original, they're more creative.
    Yep.


    The Fi-type plans much more.
    Yep.

    The Fi-type is much more likely to say "it's definitely going to happen" while the ESI-Se is much more oriented to the present and doesn't try to think too far ahead.
    Sounds right. But the Se sub is also foreseeing everything, they're just less likely to talk about it.


    The Fi-type can appear to favor the obstinate, declaring, farsighted, emotivist, aristocratic, and judicious dichotomies.
    Agree, they give that impression.

    The Se-type handles Fe better
    Handles a Fe atmosphere better.

    and can appear more Fe-valuing even though it should be the other way around based upon inert functions supposedly drained.
    They engage easier, but they are worse at it, actually. They're less likely to be aware of how they are affecting others emotionally. Fi subtype is much better at this. They're much better at manipulation.

    The Se-type is much more attuned to other peoples' moods.
    No.

    The Se-type is more playful, can "let loose" much more easily.
    Yes.


    Obama (Fi-type)

    I'm not sure Obama is ESI, he might be IEI-Fe (nicknamed "The Diplomat").


    Please critique/correct this post if you see anything wrong or think anything is wrong in it. Maybe I made a lot of errors, so I want to be corrected wherever I'm wrong and want more information=)

    Overall good observations, but you sound a bit biased against the Fi subtype at times.

  6. #6
    Socionics is a spook ashlesha's Avatar
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    Not strict on subtype stuff (let alone type) but I wonder if I should go with Se sub, if FDG is right, or if I just associate with the clearly superior traits, overall.

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    Heaven and Hell Samson's Avatar
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    Obama as ESI??? Ouch!

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    this is so oddly specific and conjectural i.e. bullshit. cunted take especially wrt to the bias against Fi subtype + Se subtype is not the softer/gentler of the two

    >Se type is more common among people with mtDNA haplogroup K and D (and H to a lesser extent). Fi type is VERY common in people with mtDNA haplogroups J and T and L.
    >Se-type is much more likely to have a biological mother and/or maternal grandmother who were left-handed.

    ???

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    a two horned unicorn renegade Heretic 007's Avatar
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    Makes me wonder about great number of mistypings. Like tripping over should not be an issue at all or being Fe ignoring actor... not that those can not happen.
    Measuring you right now

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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    How is it mixed up? I thought about half of it matched my experience.
    Yeah, because the other half is mixed up

    In general esi se are less mentally stable and more educationally strict than esi fi. Those are two big points. Also the Se variant is generally more 'racist' or stereotypically right wing.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    Not strict on subtype stuff (let alone type) but I wonder if I should go with Se sub, if FDG is right, or if I just associate with the clearly superior traits, overall.
    Clearly superior traits are a sign of Se in socionics, haven't you learnt already after all these years...
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    ESI-Fi subtypes tend to overthink things, which often results in delays before actually starting any action while ESI-Se subtypes tend to overwhelm themselves with information without giving it much thought so many decisions can seem rather rash or not that well thought out. Similar parallels exist for all Ijs. A subtype is one who spends a lot more (too much?) time on either input or output processes, which is the source for all these seeming differences so one shouldn't overcomplicate the analysis......

    a.k.a. I/O

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