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Thread: Fi in the context of EII and ESI

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Default Fi in the context of EII and ESI

    I feel like EII have Napoleon complex. I think when I see something wrong I can fix the whole world just put me in charge! When ESI see something wrong they determine the scope like “it’s their culture, if it’s something I don’t like or agree with, I’m too small to voice it, I’ll just move on.”

    Yup Ne seems to be apostatizing or wants it’s values to be recognized in a bigger context maybe that’s what makes EII Humanist
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 11-08-2019 at 05:26 PM.
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    I feel like EII have Napoleon complex.
    cause you are Se valued EIE
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Uncle Ave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    I feel like EII have Napoleon complex. I think when I see something wrong I can fix the whole world just put me in charge! When ESI see something wrong they determine the scope like “it’s their culture, if it’s something I don’t like or agree with, I’m too small to voice it, I’ll just move on.”

    Yup Ne seems to be apostatizing or wants it’s values to be recognized in a bigger context maybe that’s what makes EII Humanist
    ESI is more likely to impose values, but only on their close entourage.

    EII is unlikely impose values. Live and let live etc. EIIs might want their values recognized in a more global context than ESI, but ime they never ever impose this through force or preaching.


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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    cause you are Se valued EIE
    Stop being such an ass hole especially when you donít know what each function means and can only base your understanding on stereotypes.
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ave View Post
    ESI is more likely to impose values, but only on their close entourage.

    EII is unlikely impose values. Live and let live etc. EIIs might want their values recognized in a more global context than ESI, but ime they never ever impose this through force or preaching.
    Beg to differ. Many EII have taken up GLOBAL humanitarian campaigns like Maria Schriver and many others I can name. I am a personal subscriber to her Facebook page and she posts constantly about how or what models people should follow
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    ďAlthough the EII is usually tolerant and accommodating, she won't forgive betrayal and injustice. Negatively views ...ď
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    cause you are Se valued EIE
    For being arguably the dumbest person here you are going on permanent ignore. I would suggest you do the same for me because I don’t care about reading your horribly thought out posts ever again
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    @Aylen would you please ask him to put me on ignore. He is a world class idiot
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Socionics is a spook ashlesha's Avatar
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    What if you feel that 12 year olds being married to grown men is wrong but you don't begin or join a campaign to end it and instead you're on high alert with respect to the attitudes about it held by others and feel closer or more distant towards them accordingly and may make your attitude clear within personal circles even if it doesn't make a material difference..?

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    What if you feel that 12 year olds being married to grown men is wrong but you don't begin or join a campaign to end it and instead you're on high alert with respect to the attitudes about it held by others and feel closer or more distant towards them accordingly and may make your attitude clear within personal circles even if it doesn't make a material difference..?
    Thatís basically ESI in a nutshell
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ave View Post
    ESI is more likely to impose values, but only on their close entourage.

    EII is unlikely impose values. Live and let live etc. EIIs might want their values recognized in a more global context than ESI, but ime they never ever impose this through force or preaching.
    I agree. Personally, I don’t really have the will or interest for this. I’ll not often compare or contrast myself to society in general so I can’t really see myself feeling inadequate or inferior to said forces above. To me, the Napolean complex seems very Beta-esk. Even just the conception that I would need myself to be heard. I’m curious where this is written on Ne because I’ve never read such. I care very little of others opinions of me or my ideas. I could spend my whole life concieving and I would be content.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toska View Post
    I agree. Personally, I donít really have the will or interest for this. Iíll not often compare or contrast myself to society in general so I canít really see myself feeling inadequate or inferior to said forces above. To me, the Napolean complex seems very Beta-esk. Even just the conception that I would need myself to be heard. Iím curious where this is written on Ne because Iíve never read such. I care very little of others opinions of me or my ideas. I could spend my whole life concieving and I would be content.
    ďEven in youth, through her imagination, EII forms a certain ideal that she attempts to reach. A feeling of obligation often lies at the foundation of her program function. Thus, the smallest divergence in behavior away from this ideal causes the EII to chastise and restrain herself. In this journey towards self-perfection, EII can become her own worst tyrant. This tyranny of this sense of obligation in its extreme manifestations can even lead the EII to develop contempt for herself. It can also lead her to feel contemptuous and critical of others, when their behavior fails to correspond with her ideal of decency and ethical values. This sort of maximalism, characteristic of EII in her youth, can lead to confrontations and conflicts with her peers, which weigh heavily upon her and are very trying for her.Ē

    It isnít my main goal as being a mother and a wife are however the idealism makes me want to reach for it
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    In Socionics Napoleon is frequently typed as an Se lead and EIIs are Se PoLR and so I don't think that's the most appropriate comparison. 1D Se is why EIIs overall don't seem that enthusiastic to "be in charge."

    Having said that, I've known at least 2 EIIs who are just shy of eco terrorist in their degree of activism lol; for the issues they are truly invested in, they'd do just about anything, including using their bodies as shields. I wouldn't say they are the norm, but it's possible.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Napoleon complex is just explaining that you think your thoughts are bigger than you are.

    Anyway look what I found @Sol you have been blocked

    ďCannot pressure people, shout at them, goad them to activity by means of aggression. His punishment is completely ignoring a person. .Ē
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    My perception of the truth could be changed by another truth. I’m never settled on one idea of how things should be done because I always find another that works just as well or something that counteracts one position to another. It’s like when I give advice to someone, sometimes I can feel like it’s for the best but I’m not going to tell them it’s the only way or act like I know that it’ll work for them.

    That said, I heavily relate with the description you sent. I’ll often say that I do everything for my younger self(the one who created my ideal). This ideal isn’t to prove myself to anyone though, it’s more to prove myself to myself. At least, that’s the way I’ve percieved it. I could see how this may lead some to seemingly wanting to be heard in some regard.

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    you just don't like the truth
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    This is actually pretty insightful. If I don't get "_______" then I'm just a disappointment. If I can't be the person I thought I would be, then who am I? I'll be lost in the possibilities of what could be with no foundation. Can anything be if I can't see through for what was? In a lot of ways this seems like a need to stay grounded whilst seeking out your potential. To retain the qualities of your values whilst desiring to transcend them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by toska View Post
    I agree. Personally, I don’t really have the will or interest for this. I’ll not often compare or contrast myself to society in general so I can’t really see myself feeling inadequate or inferior to said forces above. To me, the Napolean complex seems very Beta-esk. Even just the conception that I would need myself to be heard. I’m curious where this is written on Ne because I’ve never read such. I care very little of others opinions of me or my ideas. I could spend my whole life concieving and I would be content.
    Fi as leading function of ESI (ISFj; Dreiser) and EII (INFj; Dostoevsky) by Dmitry Golihov

    This person is very tenacious in his attachments and conservative in his feelings and attitudes towards another, keeps true to the feelings he develops. If someone does not agree with his valuation, it irritates him immensely. Someone who has deceived him once he will consider a liar forever, even if the person changes. Due to this, from aside he is often seen as a moralist, as these feelings and evaluations are the main part of his life. The product of leading function is often not shown to the outside world but instead is kept inside. Thus this happens most often when something annoys him in terms of its values. The negative is often seen more clearly than the positive. Thus he may hold onto such false impressions. Attempting to challenge their assessment is useless, for them something is just "good" and something is just "bad" and they will not be able to communicate clearly why this is so, except for making some general statements. Tries to keep himself near those with whom positive relationship was once established. Their division of people into "good" and "bad" is very clear-cut. The "good" people are liked and the "bad" people are despised; often this is hidden but if the person evoke a strongly negative response they may express it openly. If there are not enough people around him whom he values, this may inspire in him aggression, because this means that he doesn't exist. He is very sensitive to such concepts as duty, honor, dignity, morality, that is - to his own perception of these concepts. For him his own feelings, emotions, attitudes are important, not external, public ones, which may not be given any importance. He rarely changes his attitude towards anyone, especially from low evaluation to a higher one. He has a large supply of different emotions and their various nuances. He is very sensitive to other people deviating from his own moral code - it is as if he is constantly controlling them in this respect and taking care of them. His positive feelings are something that should be confirmed by behavior that coincides with his expectations of what is "good" and "bad". In society, they are sometimes misunderstood since their ethics are personal, subjective, and therefore may deviate significantly from what is accepted as a norm. But he is deeply entrenched into this subjective perception, thus his only resort is to find those who agree with him and accept him for it.
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    Rebelondeck's Avatar
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    EIIs and ESIs are equally moralistic and both like to be sure of a win before they start something; of course, they're often mistaken about their chances of a win. ESIs tend to be more practical and bite off smaller chunks because they tend to be more myopic and less sure of themselves. Wanting to "fix the whole world" seems very impractical but very EII. Oddly, EIIs tend to be more practical in their day-to-day routines because they seem to see consequence more clearly whereas ESIs often make decisions without verifying or correlating their data. Jeanne d'Arc had a Napoleon complex but seemed more like an ESI who perhaps didn't see the complete picture; however, I would think that far more EIIs would wish to be like her than would ESIs.........

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    I believe that activism for the promotion of human values and concerns is an inherent part of how INFJ want to make a change in the world
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  21. #21

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    also EIE's extravertion predisposes to wish to spread the influence

    > I think when I see something wrong I can fix the whole world just put me in charge!

    there was the example of Hitler

    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas View Post
    I just don't like judging someone's personal opinion
    There were no even your messages to suppose I said to you. That was to Maritsa, who stably dislikes to get the reasonable criticism, including of her wrong opinion about own type. By the protection of mistakes you support the possible harm made by them.

    What opinions about types or other themes' related you do not like to be disagreed is not interesting.

    > Don't make yourself being special

    My experience and typing skills are enough to respect own opinion about types.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    YXPR's Avatar
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    I agree with you.

    i think “live and let live” generally applies to gammas more than it does to deltas.

    Both delta and beta nfs tend to want to transform their “values” into something that has an impact on a larger scale. It doesn’t have anything to do with se.

    The thing is that to me betas enjoy a more disruptive kind of activism. They like the idea of advocating for something that is still controversial and to fight to make it more mainstream. On the other hand deltas seem to advocate for causes that have already been approved by society or by a large group they consider that they belong to.

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