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Thread: An Apology to Sol

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    Luminous Lynx Memento Mori's Avatar
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    Default An Apology to Sol

    I owe a long awaited, earned apology to @Sol

    Sol has patiently typed me correctly, had the diligence to pursue me and reframe my actions in proper context, stood alone in his answer while everyone else typed me differently, and has even stood up for me on multiple occasions while others were intent on seeing me as malicious and unreasonable. Thank you, Sol. I apologize for being so stubborn and rude over the past year.


    For those curious of my typing:

    Hag and I have been happily living together for a while now. Naturally, when two Socionics-conscious individuals cohabitate, many observations come to light. As you'd likely expect, during our time together we've accumulated a variety of examples of each others' behaviour in various situations, as well as our day-to-day tendencies. What has become increasingly clear is that, not only am I not an EIE, but I'm not a Beta NF at all.

    A few days ago, Hag was reading ESI subtype descriptions to me, sharing what she found relatable. Now, I understand many caution against subtypes, but, for what it's worth, the ESI-Se description was eerily pertinent to me. While exploring Wikisocion, I read a plethora of authors' varying portrayals of EIE to compare, followed by the corresponding literature on ESI. What became clear was the consensus on EIE was not only untenable for me, but that many of my own fears, issues, traits, and general quirks were simply better captured in ESI literature.

    My expressiveness, oddly enough, is explained through Fi, as ESI enjoys elevating the state and mood of valued relations, as well as even being humorous, playing pranks, and generally entertaining their valued others. However, this behaviour is essentially reserved for valued individuals, and is not a default state (a critical distinction for me). My confrontational moral posts weren't a matter of 'drama', attention, or some Quadral value conjecture on 'traditionalism', but rather Se creative enforcing ethics. My credence to loyalty, tradition, fidelity, etc, were again not a matter of 'Quadral values', but simply being ESI. To cite a more visceral and straightforward example: I have always been a very physically affectionate and possessive individual, seeking the actual physical proximity of my desired relations, among other things. I dislike being physically away from what I want, and can be (at times) overwhelmingly assertive in attacking what I know is wrong, sometimes literally. For example, all the fights I've been in have been in defence of people being bullied and harassed; I don't take shit from anyone, especially people who swagger around like they own everything and everyone, people who have no fucking respect.

    It seems my tendency to ignore my own body and comfort isn't 'vulnerability', it's simply devalued Si. Furthermore, with regards to Si, Si Demo in ESI is apparently largely a nurturing capacity used to provide positive sensory experiences (and environments) to their valued relations (Fi), as opposed to a valued end in itself. Basically, I can mostly ignore my own immediate body and needs, but I'm far more proficient at providing nurture than I previously believed (a product of doubting my own positive qualities, which Filatova covers in Ne PoLR). In fact, much of my expression of love goes beyond verbal affirmation and general intimacy, extending to acts of service, gift giving, and more traditional forms of nurture - I even do a majority of the cooking for us, which I'm apparently much better at than I thought I was (again, Filatova). I'm reportedly far too attentive and nurturing, combined with the aforementioned, to be Si PoLR, and I do not regard a variety of related things as 'draining', as many authors assert Si PoLR does. Clearly, neither Enneagram nor being a 'loving F type' can explain all of this away, and these are significant type-related factors.

    As for Se, people who both like and detest me know how quick I am to enforce moral standards (given that Se Creative is the output of Fi base), but I also had a relatively accomplished athletic background in my youth. I took Martial Arts (Karate and Kickboxing), Amateur Wrestling, enjoyed rock-climbing and cliff jumping, water-skiing, various forms of boating, succeeded in competitive level Soccer, earned a pre-Lifeguard level swimming grade by the age of 13, and placed 4th in my City for the 1800m dash in my age bracket. With regards to more tactile skills, I was a decent art student, even placing top of my class at one point, and I played the alto-saxophone, as well as the acoustic and electric guitar for years; I later took up the bass guitar, albeit briefly. I've seen plenty of self-typed Intuitives express interest and even participation in a variety of sports and activities, so I never took these as a serious basis of typing myself. I've realized the more obvious answer is that I am indeed a Sensor.

    To address intuition: my supposed Ni ego was essentially deconstructed into traits of Ni HA and Ti Role respectively, and the quality some authors attribute to Ni 'seeing into people' and figuring out their 'inner harmonies' was largely a product of 4D Fi in myself. If my Ni HA was 'activated' at any point in my life, it was arguably by my Uncle (an LIE, and the closest thing I've ever had to a proper Father figure) in my mid-teens. It was here I began to deeply discuss a variety of subjects, namely: history, politics, theology, conspiracy (with ample skepticism), philosophy, and so on. From here, I got my own computer and began independently researching a variety of fields and meeting others with similar interests I could learn from and grow with. I made many educated friends over the years, and it was likely the hunger for T and N in my Super Id block that made me absorb so much, in such a condensed period of a time. I have obsessively listened to literal hundreds of hours of lectures on a variety of subjects over the years, to the point that I've literally conducted informal lectures myself, yet despite this, I never feel adequately erudite.

    In particular, Filatova's description was the best. Regarding Filatova's work, Hag and I went through a collection of my personal photographs across my life, and I matched up to 3-4 of the ESI VI portraits remarkably well, marking the first time VI has truly helped me. Even the descriptions of how ESIs dress accurately capture me: inconspicuously, using minimal color, modest, fashionable. I have a solid frame, carry myself with a somewhat rigid and proud posture, and I apparently do in fact have a "hammering gait". As an aside, languid and slouching appearances have always been a nuisance to me, a sign of a lack of self-respect and dignity, and I generally walk at a very brisk and deliberate pace. Filatova's Ne PoLR description was not at all what I was expecting, and was highly accurate. I have always felt the need to understand the context of historical precedent, and felt frustration when I did not--in my view--know enough on such matters. As a result, I've poured years into consuming various history, and I'm incredibly selective and ethically unbudging on what I hold as sacred and moral; 'moral-relativism' is a grave falsehood and error to me. I am indeed exacting in what I want in a partner (and have more than found it). No matter how much I accomplish, nor how often I have been complimented on my abilities, I have constantly underestimated my own qualities; no matter how much I learn and grow as a person, it never seems to be enough, and despite my high grades in school, considerable attention to learning, and accumulated knowledge, I'm easily irritated by being treated as though I am ignorant - particularly when the opposite is the case. I detest being told that I'm incapable of seeing the 'big picture' because I'm seen as pedantically focusing on specifics. I respect thoroughness, and generally shun hypothesis and what I see as self-impressed, abstract musings. Even this arduously turgid post was patiently, and carefully constructed. Clearly, my 'seeing into' people seems to be 4D Fi, and not intuition.

    I'm a passionate individual. However, reframing my behaviour and placing it in the proper context of my relations, who I'm talking to, and what I'm addressing, sheds light on and distinguishes my core nature in ways too various for this distended post to highlight. Sufficed to say, Hag and I have been sorting this out for days, and my various traits fall into place cogently with the functional positioning and nature of ESI. That is to say, I am not some niche composite of disparate EIE traits scattered throughout literature--such confusions are borne of the various contradictions or simple inconsistencies of many Socionics authors--I am rather a dominant, wilful, and outspoken ESI. Surreal examples, such as the instance between @Alonzo and myself, where I effectively reprimanded him thoroughly, many months ago, and--quite unusual for his typified, assertive confidence--actually pacified him. Not only this, but we've had positive interactions ever since. How many people make a scolding first impression, receive (tantamount to) a positive response, and
    henceforth have positive correspondence? That's a rather unusual and specific happenstance for most people, moreso if I was EIE, but, viewed through the lens of the 'decompressing' quality of Duality interaction, this ostensibly makes perfect sense.

    This congested post has gone on far too long, so if anyone wants me to leave a collection of ESI literary excerpts that I relate to, let me know. Whoever read this entire post is fucking awesome.

    Cheers.
    "We live in an age in which there is no heroic death."


    Model A: ESI-Se -
    DCNH: Dominant

    Enneagram: 1w2, 2w1, 6w7
    Instinctual Variant: Sx/So


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    Muddy's Avatar
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    Sol is love Sol is life.

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    it's ok, everything will be fine totalize's Avatar
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    the reason sol is controversial (and imo its intentional) is because most of time he asserts things without evaluation or explanation. if people agree with the typing already, for their own reason, then they like it and use him as a citation. but others who don't like his typing is because he is incredibly stubborn, do not explain anything, rarely give any source. to acquire information and then to not share it to improve common goal, instead to keep to yourself to appear as 'above others' (in this case 'pro typer') is personality aspect common to community aliens.

    it's nice and good he helped you, but if he did it in way intending to help you, rather than intending to 'appear to be more correct than others', it would likely have come faster and with less drama.

    btw in reading your post it becomes apparent person who helped you most was actually hag.
    CETERUM AUTEM CENSEO WASHINGTON D.C. ESSE DELENDAM

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    a two horned unicorn renegade Homicidal Maniac 007's Avatar
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    Well, congrats if you are settled.


    Anyway, I still wait for evidence for being F type which seems to be quite far fetched (afaik when I look around my bookshelf full of math/science books, my degrees and sucky Fi that could be very weird EIE).

    If Sol is LSE – then he is pathologically bad at providing evidence which is generic extreme type fault and should be worked on.
    Measuring you right now

    Winning is for losers

     

    Sincerely yours,
    idiosyncratic type

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    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    I expect lots of people to retype themselves after they learn more about the theory and how to apply it to themselves so I am not surprised. It's cool you apologized to sol though. I kind of missed the title when I read it so that part didn't register completely until others mentioned him. I am happy for you and @hag. The thing that happened when people retyped me is that I really looked into those types to see if I was missing something, even the times when I knew I was being trolled. I know sol was not trolling you at all.

    I agree that hag was the one who helped you most since living together gives so much more information than just dating someone. You gave a good explanation why you type ESI now and it makes sense.

    Congratulations to you guys. I wish you both the best.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    ooo's Avatar
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    *facepalm*

    neither you nor hag are ESI

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    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
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    Yeah seriously, simply finding a partner you want to be loyal to doesn’t mean you’ve become an ESI all of a sudden. It’s not like they’re the only type that’s a worthwhile human being capable of not PMing noods around.

    Also,
    > Massive textwall
    > Says is sensing introvert ...

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    Socionics is a spook ashlesha's Avatar
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    Dunno what happened with sol, and I have a bit of fondness for the guy (and his retyping of me), but he IS a persistent mofo who doesn't give a ton of reasoning, and imo people are entitled to bite back at him.

    Also you and hag know you better than anyone here and you're entitled to use this silly system how you want, but I hope those were self-reflective thoughts and not justifying ones cuz if sol was troublesome... here ya go

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heretic 007 View Post
    Well, congrats if you are settled.


    Anyway, I still wait for evidence for being F type which seems to be quite far fetched (afaik when I look around my bookshelf full of math/science books, my degrees and sucky Fi that could be very weird EIE).

    If Sol is LSE – then he is pathologically bad at providing evidence which is generic extreme type fault and should be worked on.
    he typed you as F type too? lol

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    Socionics is a spook ashlesha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soundofconfusion View Post
    he typed you as F type too? lol
    He types me T because my language isn't flowery enough for F. Where is that entrancing prose at, dude?

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    stare into me flames's Avatar
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    Hmm, going by your pictures I could see a case for LSI. But duals tend to look like each other and the pic where you had short hair looks EIE-ish to me. I think from my perspective at least, EIE seems the better choice. But I haven’t talked to you at all and I don’t know you well enough to really say.
    And I'm what you desire, like a siren in the night



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    @Luminous Lynx

    The situation of mistake in own type is usual. The expanded thankfulness for my assistance is lesser usual.

    I'm glad that you've understood my opinion. I hope you'll not change it. I saw how people changed opinions about own types not a single time. And saw a number of people who mistake in own types for years, while being active in the typology. Some of them teached others. I know 2 of such ones who then changed opinions about own types after years. Jung himself thought his type wrongly as LII. Mistyping is not rare situation with the existing typing methods.

    If in the past I'd used doubtful theory parts as Reinin's traits. Did not used VI (as intuitive-nonverbal method) as important info to type. Did not used IR effects with people IRL for understanding own type. Then I'd had longer doubts in own type and could mistype myself with higher chance. Seems many people get difficulties by these reasons. Also the texts available in English are not good to study the typology, as it's better to do by books for beginners. Until now moment, there is only a single Filatova's book in English which is not bad to study the types. Would be good to have several books by different authors to understand the common in them, as this common is closer to the core theory and mb more trusted.

    > Hag and I have been happily living together for a while now.

    According to my main assumption about hag's type your IR should be better than average. Good IR have more weight on long time relations in pairs, as are among factors which help with friendship feelings. Good relations need the efforts to love and to care about interests of other human as about own interests. Better IR make this easier. It's not obligate to be duals to love and to care about each other, and so to feel good together.

    > In particular, Filatova's description was the best.

    I liked her short descriptions. The expanded types descriptions I liked the most were in Gorenko's book. Mb someone good in both languages will translate it and other useful texts to English sometimes.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    a two horned unicorn renegade Homicidal Maniac 007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soundofconfusion View Post
    he typed you as F type too? lol
    I'm total emo, dude! Although seriously I'm no where close to run of the mill ILI (Brezhnev).
    Last edited by Homicidal Maniac 007; 10-23-2019 at 02:59 PM. Reason: now in colors
    Measuring you right now

    Winning is for losers

     

    Sincerely yours,
    idiosyncratic type

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    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fresh meat View Post
    Hmm, going by your pictures I could see a case for LSI. But duals tend to look like each other and the pic where you had short hair looks EIE-ish to me. I think from my perspective at least, EIE seems the better choice. But I haven’t talked to you at all and I don’t know you well enough to really say.
    My response isn't about lynx. I know the cognitive distress of getting used to someone self typing one thing then to have them change it and start to treat you differently because all of a sudden you are opposite quadras or some less favorable itr. As long as they don't treat me differently because of the new "type" then we're cool. If someone does that I think they have a screw loose or just acting so I don't care if we ignore each other.

    I just expect a lot of people will change types at some point so I don't give it too much consideration anymore. You are pretty reliable to treat me the same no matter what you self type. I like that about you.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    He types me T because my language isn't flowery enough for F. Where is that entrancing prose at, dude?

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Luminous Lynx Memento Mori's Avatar
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    The apology found it's way to Sol, and nobody has asked for further excerpts or examples. Given that others may want to see the reasoning for my type change, I will close the thread while leaving it public. Anyone making relevant inquiries can contact me through PM.
    "We live in an age in which there is no heroic death."


    Model A: ESI-Se -
    DCNH: Dominant

    Enneagram: 1w2, 2w1, 6w7
    Instinctual Variant: Sx/So


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