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Thread: ESI/LIE Conversations

  1. #81
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    Every once in a while I seem to fall into depression. These bouts are often triggered by feelings that my life is going nowhere, or by periods when I don't have enough contact with the people I care about.

    This recent "social distancing" thing, along with the "do not leave the house, work from home" rule, has plunged me into depression. I haven't been able to motivate myself to work for about a week now. I want to get in my car and drive to an airport and take a plane to some place where no one will ever find me. Fuck the world. You guys can have all my shit. Just don't try to find me.

    I was looking around for another life to escape to because mine sucks and I decided to call a guy I know to ask him how his side-hustle business, his little escape from reality, is working out,

    and I had to text an old ESI buddy of mine to get the guy's phone number.

    Me: Do you have xxx yyy's phone number? I want to ask him how his side business is going.

    ESI: No I don't. Maybe ask bbb or ccc? I'm on my ass for weeks. You?

    Me: Why are you on your ass? Work injuries or just virus hiding?

    ESI: Virus hiding. We're shut down.

    Me: You still getting paid?

    ESI: Unemployment. I asked for vacation time but got rudely put down.

    -Long text exchange about status of family members, then how my company has tons of work but I can't bring myself to care, then a discussion about taking walks-

    ESI: Keep your distance from others. Wear a mask if you have one.

    Me: I think I see about one person a mile.

    ESI: So you are in town now?

    Me: For the past three weeks. I'm going nuts.

    ESI: Better do some of that work.

    Me: Yeah. But first, a walk.

    ESI: OK, start tomorrow.

    Me. Fuck work. I don't do well in isolation.

    ESI: No no no we talked about this young man. Start working tomorrow. Not to mention your language.

    Me: Customer reports are due in the morning. I have to start tonight.

    ESI: Well......... Time to start.

    Me: Yeah. Ok, good talking with you.

    So I went out for a three mile walk and went to bed because I felt like shit. And I woke up feeling like working again.

    Maybe it was the walk, maybe it was the convo. But if it was only the walk, even that wouldn't have happened if the ESI hadn't motivated me to get up and do something.

  2. #82
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    @Adam Strange Basically the inversion of my own experience. People around me are going nuts and questioning how I'm so cool with it all. It's not all that different from what I usually do. Seems the theory that extroverts greatly outnumber introverts has a ring of truth to it.

    Then there's the moral dimension. I mean fuck, so many of them are literally willing to watch a 100k or more people die horrifically in a ditch if only everything goes back to normal. Am I the only ILI that considers human life to be as sacred as that descriptor deserves?

    It also goes against the data as well. The Spanish Flu has a data set and it spelled it out. The most "paranoid" population centers recovered the quickest. Thus, keep the factories and whatnot closed for another week or two. Long run? Works out.

  3. #83
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    Last summer, I went on a date with an ESI who owns a lawn care company, and I liked her. I think she liked me, too, but I did something pretty stupid on that date. Because I had a previous GF who liked physically demonstrated affection (she liked to be patted on the ass), and because I'm a complete fucking idiot when it comes to relationships, when the ESI decided she finally had to go home, I smacked her on the ass as she went out the door.
    She turned around and said, "Did you just smack my ass?"
    I said yes.
    She turned without a word and walked to her car, thinking furiously.

    When I asked her out again, she refused. When I asked her out again, she refused. When I asked her out again, she told me that I was permanently on her shit list, and if I ever wanted to talk to her again, it would have to be in a professional context only.

    OK, I get it. I'm an idiot, case closed. However, she actually is good at lawn care, so I've called her for yard service and she has sent some of her people over to take care of some small projects.

    When a woman tells me she isn't interested, I take her at her word. If I had any romantic interest in her before, I stop. I just stop. I turn it off and treat her like any guy that I used to know. She becomes the grizzled old guy at the hardware store. It seems best that way. That way, I can at least salvage some benefits from knowing someone whom I once judged to be valuable.

    So I called her last week and asked if she could move a rose bush for me. She texted back and said that she could make that happen this week, when it would be warmer. I thought, "Great! That rose bush can be moved into sunlight and will live."

    But then a weird thing happened. As the days went by, she'd send me little texts that seemed job-related but inconsequential. Like, she didn't have to send me that text to do the job. And the timing was strange. She wouldn't respond right away, as I did, but instead she'd take a hour or so, as if she was thinking thinking thinking before responding.

    Today, I got a text from her saying that she was outside and where is the rose bush? I realized that she had decided to do the job herself. I went out to show it to her, and she was pacing back and forth, all smiles until she saw me. As I led her to the back yard, she said "Something has changed."

    Well, yeah, it did. That switch flipped. What was she expecting?
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 04-21-2020 at 04:18 AM.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Well, yeah, it did. That switch flipped. What was she expecting?
    I guess she was expecting you to apologize, endure a punishment for your mistake, and make an effort to improve your relations? Man, your Fi sucks (no offense, mine does too).

  5. #85
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    Last night I ran across a female ESI-Se on Match.com and I sent her a message saying that I liked the picture of her with some tiny lights she had braided into her hair because it was very artistic, and was she an artist?

    This morning, a male ESI that I know from business world called me to arrange a telecon to go over some slides, which are a summary of a project that his and my companies have been working on. He didn't have to do that, but he did it anyway, I suspect, honestly, just to spend time talking with me. Truthfully, I like the guy. He's easy to talk to, and I'm flattered by the fact that he likes me and has come to support my views in meetings, as I do his. I mean, I wouldn't like him if he were an idiot, but he isn't.

    The strange thing is, when we first met each other on this project about a year ago, he was not friendly at all towards me. He actually was borderline hostile, but we've spent an hour every week doing face time in meetings in the automotive company where he works, and we found that we mesh. I mean, absolutely mesh. He's good at everyday factual stuff, and I'm good at presenting a future vision for the project. We don't step on each other's toes, and we respect each other.

    His call today was ostensibly to talk about the slides, but ended up being more of a discussion about how the two of us can work together after this project ends.

    So I kind of feel like a failure as an LIE right now from the fact that my company doesn't presently have any projects that he would fit in, and I can't hire him outright without funding, although I'd like to. He hinted at the fact that the auto company might be cutting back in the future, and said that while he's had offers from some big companies, he'd like to remain in the area. His comments motivated me to start looking for new work in areas that he and I could contribute to.

    He intended his call to be a short discussion, a fifteen minute touching of bases, but it ended up lasting for two hours. And we didn't get bored, or tired, or run out of things to say. Near the end of the call, we were talking about how well we worked together, and sort of as a consolation prize (because I have no appropriate projects right now, although I'm thinking, "Hire him anyway, stupid. There will be synergy.") I recommended that he spend some time looking for a woman (he's divorced) like Joanne Woodward or Helena Christensen (female LIE's, IMO, who have images on YouTube). He said that he'd never considered dating someone like them. I told him that he should take a look at them and see what he thinks. Just because they look like no one he's ever considered before doesn't mean that they wouldn't be a great match for him. He thanked me and we signed off the telecon.

    If he and a female LIE could spend one or two hours together talking, I think they'd click.

    A couple hours later I checked my Match.com inbox. There was a message there from the female ESI-Se.
    It read, "Nice of you to reach out and thank you for the kind words. Not an artist, just overly creative. Best of luck in your search for someone special; I do not see us as a good match. Be safe and remain healthy."

    Just another day in Hell.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 04-25-2020 at 03:00 AM.

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    ^ That ESI's response, lmfao.

    I'm not sure if she rejected you because of your profile, or because she got the feel you were incisively judging her which makes ESI uncomfortable. OTOH, I guess incisive judging may yield success more often on dating sites because it shows you "care" about the person.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quez View Post
    ^ That ESI's response, lmfao.

    I'm not sure if she rejected you because of your profile, or because she got the feel you were incisively judging her which makes ESI uncomfortable. OTOH, I guess incisive judging may yield success more often on dating sites because it shows you "care" about the person.
    My guess is that I don't look at all like any of the guys she normally meets in her Se bohemian (I want my hair to look informal but artistically "acceptable", and this ski jacket is awesome*) life. You know, those Se guys who keep Not Working Out for her.

    *"and how would some guy in a suit go with my dog, "Outlaw"?" <- Better than you might think from surface appearances, girl.

    It's hard to prove that we can be better together if we've never been together.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 04-25-2020 at 05:17 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post

    A couple hours later I checked my Match.com inbox. There was a message there from the female ESI-Se.
    It read, "Nice of you to reach out and thank you for the kind words. Not an artist, just overly creative. Best of luck in your search for someone special; I do not see us as a good match. Be safe and remain healthy."
    Ouch. Result negativist and ne polr is a great combination to have as a dual...
    At least i finally got my final hard no from my Esi, god i was so blind.
    There has to be a way to fix this mess. Maybe befriending male ESIs is not a bad idea ether, very interesting read,
    maybe the red hering of this story is that you will have to find a way to spend some time with eachother, which is difficult due to the unapproachable nature of ESIs.
    I hope at least quarantine is treating you better right now, and there is somewhere something interesting to work with.
    But i can empathize a lot with this whole thing, it just sucks to be liked by everyone but the people you know you are really compatible with.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itsme View Post
    Ouch. Result negativist and ne polr is a great combination to have as a dual...
    At least i finally got my final hard no from my Esi, god i was so blind.
    There has to be a way to fix this mess. Maybe befriending male ESIs is not a bad idea ether, very interesting read,
    maybe the red hering of this story is that you will have to find a way to spend some time with eachother, which is difficult due to the unapproachable nature of ESIs.
    I hope at least quarantine is treating you better right now, and there is somewhere something interesting to work with.
    But i can empathize a lot with this whole thing, it just sucks to be liked by everyone but the people you know you are really compatible with.
    Thanks for that, @Itsme.

    I don't actually go out of my way to befriend male ESI's. I'm just neutral to them, I think. They are the ones who want to talk to me more. But I interact with all of these guys in real life. They are talking to me and slowly making up their minds.

    The female ESI's that are online don't have any of that personal interaction. They just glance at the coat and decide it isn't right for them. I understand that. The female ESI's that I meet in real life are also standoffish, but I'm beginning to suspect that I'm the cause of that; I have been trying too hard.

    EJ Arendee once said, If you want to get an ESI, hit on her once to get her attention, then never talk to her again. She'll do the rest.
    It turns out that those were words of wisdom.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 04-25-2020 at 05:38 AM.

  10. #90
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    I you Adam

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Thanks for that, @Itsme.

    I don't actually go out of my way to befriend male ESI's. I'm just neutral to them, I think. They are the ones who want to talk to me more. But I interact with all of these guys in real life. They are talking to me and slowly making up their minds.

    The female ESI's that are online don't have any of that personal interaction. They just glance at the coat and decide it isn't right for them. I understand that. The female ESI's that I meet in real life are also standoffish, but I'm beginning to suspect that I'm the cause of that. I have been trying too hard.

    EJ Arendee once said, If you want to get an ESI, hit on her once to get her attention, then never talk to her again. She'll do the rest.
    It turns out that those were words of wisdom.
    Interesting, forcing yourself too far out of your comfort zone probably would feel forced too, but with this it breaks down to sheer luck besides of taking opportunities that arise. But maybe this is not even far from reality.
    Yes i guess being an gamma NT is not the most faverable position for online dating ether, weak sensing + feeling most of your strong qualities are in the abstract, i mean how should one show of ones Te in such a situation without sounding like a know it all or bragging.
    I guess this holds true for a lot of aggressors, also to get women out of their 'let him show that he is worthy' mode which for me became outdated somewhere between universal suffrage and #metoo, but yes i get this.
    I usually play it like a ping pong game, i show initiative, if i get shot down, then i am out until she puts the ball back into my court again.
    This usually works well instead with the last ESI who is propably somewhat troubled and normalizing.

    -
    but also, maybe my approach is closely linked to DCNH, Ns for example are said to initially sit there and have exactly this kind of 'lets see that he proves himself worthy' attitude which should match a lot better to strong external judging functions of their dominant DCNH counterparts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    I you Adam
    I you, too, sbbds.

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    @Adam Strange: An ESI woman explaining how you get them



    Seems like you have to keep a long term view, be persistent, but don't invade her space or control her. Ne polrs may take a while to warm up to new things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hibiscus View Post
    @Adam Strange: An ESI woman explaining how you get them



    Seems like you have to keep a long term view, be persistent, but don't invade her space or control her. Ne polrs may take a while to warm up to new things.
    Oh my god. She sounds exactly like two of the ESI's I know. I was listening to this while doing something else and I realized that I was hearing a voice identical to either of those two ESI's.

    Thanks, @hibiscus. This was great.

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    Adam is in a big box store to buy a burner phone. The salesman is ESI.

    ESI: How can we help you today?

    LIE: I want to buy a phone. You have phones.

    ESI: Certainly. What kind of phone do you want? We have...

    LIE interrupts: I want an XXXXXX phone. No contract.

    ESI: ??? -Begins to wonder about the morality of the person he is dealing with. This guy looks like he's into Business. Is it a drug business? -

    LIE explains: I'm dating. I need a burner phone. Are you married?

    ESI: Uh, no?

    LIE: How old are you?

    ESI: I'm 22.

    LIE: Well, let me tell you that at my age, 80% of the women you meet are crazy. They look normal, but they aren't capable of maintaining a normal relationship. And the last thing you want is to have one of these women know where you live from your phone number.
    I'm on a dating site and I can recognize the faces of the women who are good matches to me, but I can't tell if they are crazy or not until I've talked to them for a while.

    ESI: I get it.

    LIE: Yeah. You're 22. You have eight years to find a woman and get married. After that, you're in the pool with a bunch of crazy women.

    ESI: Actually, I have a GF. We've been together for two years and three months.

    LIE thinks, what kind of a guy counts the months?

    LIE: Do you have a picture of her?

    ESI gets out his phone: She wants to get married and start having babies right away.

    LIE looks at her picture on the phone. She's ESI. Not EII. She's ESI-Fi and just beautiful.

    LIE: If that woman told me she wanted kids, I'd be there in a heartbeat. I'd say, "You run the home, I'll drop off stacks of money on the weekend." Because that's what I do. Anyway, she's your Identical.

    ESI: What does that mean?

    LIE: She's a good match. Not the best match, but I know of some other couples just like the two of you. If you're happy together, stick with it. There are lots of very bad matches out there.
    So she wants to have kids?

    ESI, dismayed, but jokes: Yeah. So I bought her a puppy.

    LIE, even more dismayed, thinking this guy is a fuckhead: So how did she react to that?

    ESI: Look. We've been together for two years, three months....

    LIE: You thinking marriage?

    ESI continues: ...She's great and all, but you know, it's a big decision. What if I meet someone I like better? What then?

    LIE, thinking, this guy is definitely a fuckhead, but he's not wrong: So, are you thinking you might like someone else better?

    ESI: I don't know. Who knows what will happen?

    LIE does something stupid and gets out his phone and shows the ESI pictures of a couple of female LIE's that he knows in real life: Someone like these women?

    ESI: They look like this one woman I met in my Business class in college. I wasn't going to do anything with her - I'm with my GF, you know - and she looked unfriendly, but I did walk up to her....the ESI goes into goofball mode....and I said something to her, and she was polite when she talked to me, and I said to myself, "I don't know why, but I LIKE YOU".

    LIE: Yeah, that's a problem. Good luck with that. Now about that phone.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 06-06-2020 at 06:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    LIE: You thinking marriage?

    ESI continues: ...She's great and all, but you know, it's a big decision. What if I meet someone I like better? What then?

    LIE, thinking, this guy is definitely a fuckhead, but he's not wrong
    He sounds reasonable? why did this get him fuckhead points ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Adam is in a big box store to buy a burner phone. The salesman is ESI.

    ESI: How can we help you today?

    LIE: I want to buy a phone. You have phones.

    ESI: Certainly. What kind of phone do you want? We have...

    LIE interrupts: I want an XXXXXX phone. No contract.

    ESI: ??? -Begins to wonder about the morality of the person he is dealing with. This guy looks like he's into Business. Is it a drug business? -

    LIE explains: I'm dating. I need a burner phone. Are you married?

    ESI: Uh, no?

    LIE: How old are you?

    ESI: I'm 22.

    LIE: Well, let me tell you that at my age, 80% of the women you meet are crazy. They look normal, but they aren't capable of maintaining a normal relationship. And the last thing you want is to have one of these women know where you live from your phone number.
    I'm on a dating site and I can recognize the faces of the women who are good matches to me, but I can't tell if they are crazy or not until I've talked to them for a while.

    ESI: I get it.

    LIE: Yeah. You're 22. You have eight years to find a woman and get married. After that, you're in the pool with a bunch of crazy women.

    ESI: Actually, I have a GF. We've been together for two years and three months.

    LIE thinks, what kind of a guy counts the months?

    LIE: Do you have a picture of her?

    ESI gets out his phone: She wants to get married and start having babies right away.

    LIE looks at her picture on the phone. She's ESI. Not EII. She's ESI-Fi and just beautiful.

    LIE: If that woman told me she wanted kids, I'd be there in a heartbeat. I'd say, "You run the home, I'll drop off stacks of money on the weekend." Because that's what I do. Anyway, she's your Identical.

    ESI: What does that mean?

    LIE: She's a good match. Not the best match, but I know of some other couples just like the two of you. If you're happy together, stick with it. There are lots of very bad matches out there.
    So she wants to have kids?

    ESI, dismayed, but jokes: Yeah. So I bought her a puppy.

    LIE, even more dismayed, thinking this guy is a fuckhead: So how did she react to that?

    ESI: Look. We've been together for two years, three months....

    LIE: You thinking marriage?

    ESI continues: ...She's great and all, but you know, it's a big decision. What if I meet someone I like better? What then?

    LIE, thinking, this guy is definitely a fuckhead, but he's not wrong: So, are you thinking you might like someone else better?

    ESI: I don't know. Who knows what will happen?

    LIE does something stupid and gets out his phone and shows the ESI pictures of a couple of female LIE's that he knows in real life: Someone like these women?

    ESI: They look like this one woman I met in my Business class in college. I wasn't going to do anything with her - I'm with my GF, you know - and she looked unfriendly, but I did walk up to her....the ESI goes into goofball mode....and I said something to her, and she was polite when she talked to me, and I said to myself, "I don't know why, but I LIKE YOU".

    LIE: Yeah, that's a problem. Good luck with that. Now about that phone.
    That was incredible

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalinoche the Child View Post
    He sounds reasonable? why did this get him fuckhead points ?
    It's fine to go chasing the next thing when you're young. But grown older you see where the real wealth lies: with your kids and with your family.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    It's fine to go chasing the next thing when you're young. But grown older you see where the real wealth lies: with your kids and with your family.
    Alright, thanks. Much clearer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightHawk View Post
    That was incredible
    Thank you, @NightHawk. That was almost verbatim, too.

    Let's look at this exchange from a meta standpoint for a minute.

    I walked into a big box store to buy a phone from a random stranger, and in six minutes was talking to them about their sex partner and potential children and their life choices. And not only were they not calling security to have me escorted from the store for crossing every social line that you can imagine, they are right there with me, every step of the way. The guy ended up asking me if I can recommend any books on sales and thanking me for the conversation.

    How could this happen?

    It can happen when you are exchanging information with a Dual in a way which they naturally need, and in a way which you naturally provide. Had that salesman been an SLI, the convo would have ended with "I get it." In fact, I had the beginning of that exact same convo with an SLI at the door, and that's where it ended.

    So, when you are considering dating just anyone, consider this: I have dated every introvert in the socion, many types more than once, and my policy now is the same as @sbbds': Duality or GTFO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    So, when you are considering dating just anyone, consider this: I have dated every introvert in the socion, many types more than once, and my policy now is the same as @sbbds': Duality or GTFO.
    I am not even dating an IEI right now

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    I am not even dating an IEI right now
    This is not a fall from virtue but rather a response to a higher purpose.

    "Who laid the measure of the prey?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by NightHawk View Post
    That was incredible
    Yep, this ESI guy will certainly remember this conversation later in his life.

    "My identical... Those women he showed me on his phone... Damn, I should have asked a few questions".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    It's fine to go chasing the next thing when you're young. But grown older you see where the real wealth lies: with your kids and with your family.
    I like you old man. Just so you know.

    Adam I keep meeting women that are.. how should I put this?.. nuts, yeah, nuts. How do I meet sane women? :/ kinda fucked up a serious long term relationship recently with an IEI (wasn't gonna work.. she was nuts as well).

    Time is running out I'm in my early 30s .. tho I look like I'd be in my early 20s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalinoche the Child View Post
    He sounds reasonable? why did this get him fuckhead points ?
    prolly because Ni types want someone to be 'in' or to be openly uncertain and not to be playing house and Adam felt protective of the ESI woman
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by BaruchJorgell View Post
    Yep, this ESI guy will certainly remember this conversation later in his life.

    "My identical... Those women he showed me on his phone... Damn, I should have asked a few questions".
    I think it's so cute that Te types do this...we're like babies when it comes to sharing our precious 'useful information', even with strangers, even about things that would horrify some other people like 'oh, stranger, you may not actually be with your ideal mate, but it's a pleasant match you're in...so I'd like a camera phone that" Tis as tho we are compelled
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Last summer, I went on a date with an ESI who owns a lawn care company, and I liked her. I think she liked me, too, but I did something pretty stupid on that date. Because I had a previous GF who liked physically demonstrated affection (she liked to be patted on the ass), and because I'm a complete fucking idiot when it comes to relationships, when the ESI decided she finally had to go home, I smacked her on the ass as she went out the door.
    She turned around and said, "Did you just smack my ass?"
    I said yes.
    She turned without a word and walked to her car, thinking furiously.

    When I asked her out again, she refused. When I asked her out again, she refused. When I asked her out again, she told me that I was permanently on her shit list, and if I ever wanted to talk to her again, it would have to be in a professional context only.

    OK, I get it. I'm an idiot, case closed. However, she actually is good at lawn care, so I've called her for yard service and she has sent some of her people over to take care of some small projects.

    When a woman tells me she isn't interested, I take her at her word. If I had any romantic interest in her before, I stop. I just stop. I turn it off and treat her like any guy that I used to know. She becomes the grizzled old guy at the hardware store. It seems best that way. That way, I can at least salvage some benefits from knowing someone whom I once judged to be valuable.

    So I called her last week and asked if she could move a rose bush for me. She texted back and said that she could make that happen this week, when it would be warmer. I thought, "Great! That rose bush can be moved into sunlight and will live."

    But then a weird thing happened. As the days went by, she'd send me little texts that seemed job-related but inconsequential. Like, she didn't have to send me that text to do the job. And the timing was strange. She wouldn't respond right away, as I did, but instead she'd take a hour or so, as if she was thinking thinking thinking before responding.

    Today, I got a text from her saying that she was outside and where is the rose bush? I realized that she had decided to do the job herself. I went out to show it to her, and she was pacing back and forth, all smiles until she saw me. As I led her to the back yard, she said "Something has changed."

    Well, yeah, it did. That switch flipped. What was she expecting?

    Dude. It takes seconds to explain to her what you so easily explained to us...that your previous partner enjoyed when you smacked their bum, you were sort of trained to do it, and you enjoyed being with her and were in that mode, and you didn't think, and (if you genuinely see it's a messed up thing to touch someone when they don't want to be touched and that you shoulda asked 1st,) say that. Seconds, dude. Just be real about it.
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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    you can't be crossing someone's lines and not apologizing and then being surprised they didn't read your mind that you get it and will stop the shit
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by nanashi View Post
    Dude. It takes seconds to explain to her what you so easily explained to us...that your previous partner enjoyed when you smacked their bum, you were sort of trained to do it, and you enjoyed being with her and were in that mode, and you didn't think, and (if you genuinely see it's a messed up thing to touch someone when they don't want to be touched and that you shoulda asked 1st,) say that. Seconds, dude. Just be real about it.

    Thanks, @nanashi. I did all that immediately. It made no difference.

    Did I mention that she’s 44 and never been married? How do you spell “Avoidant”?

    My ex-wife was 37 (seven years older than me) when I married her and she had a hard time maintaining BF’s. And our marriage. You can find a person to be really appealing in every sense, but if they always turn away, or say to you “You just stay over on that side of the room, buddy. You are smothering me”, then nothing you can do is ever going to change that.

    Attachment modes are programmed into babies at very early ages, and when programming is done on that basic a level, with everything else being built on top of it, it is very hard to change.

    This particular ESI is smart, sexy, and fun to be around, and I’ve given up on her.
    Next.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    .......and I’ve given up on her.
    Next.
    I've often wondered if this is is indicative of N-types in general. When I see relationships have failed once, I have never given them second chances even when opportunities have presented themselves. I know many N-types who would re-examine such failures over and over in their minds but would never actually go back for a second attempt.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    I've often wondered if this is is indicative of N-types in general. When I see relationships have failed once, I have never given them second chances even when opportunities have presented themselves. I know many N-types who would re-examine such failures over and over in their minds but would never actually go back for a second attempt.

    a.k.a. I/O
    Seems more like Rational vs. Irrational to me. I have given relationships second chances several times, those have been with other irrationals (both N and S). Rationals seem more likely to close chapters permanently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    I've often wondered if this is is indicative of N-types in general. When I see relationships have failed once, I have never given them second chances even when opportunities have presented themselves. I know many N-types who would re-examine such failures over and over in their minds but would never actually go back for a second attempt.

    a.k.a. I/O
    I start out every relationship without prejudices and with a very blank slate. Then, every interaction adds a building block and opens or closes a possible "door". I keep a very open mind while all this is happening, until eventually, I see where this is all going and what it is capable of supporting. Sometimes, the branches that I want to access in the tree of future possibilities are seen to be inaccessible. I don't assume that I've been given false information to arrive at this point, or that I've taken a wrong road and I can jump sideways to a new reality. Nope.

    This is why my marriage, once I decided to end it, is done. It took a long time for me to realize that I was in the wrong reality, because I had stopped gathering new information once I had decided to get married, but once I started looking at my situation, I was out of there.

    I really don't understand people who go back to their ex's. What are they using to make decisions?

    It is true that I broke up with my last GF four times and took up with her again, three times. But that was never permanent in my mind. Probably, if she called me when I was horny and single, I'd start again. The sex was the best. But the rest was a brick wall. But then again, I might not. She kind of softened my life to the point where I wasn't going out and looking for an ESI so much, and that is bad.

  33. #113
    Socionics is a spook ashlesha's Avatar
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    Re the marriage and age thing, I've mentally written the "excuse" for why I'm 36 and never been married (because of the idea that I need an excuse) but it just comes down to 2 roughly ten-year relationships with men who view marriage as an unnecessary trivial formality and my acceptance of that. The only reason I've felt any strong need to get married is because of outside perceptions that I "should" be, and not for any like, actual reason. A cultural thing, I guess. People from a different culture will deem me unworthy, lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    Seems more like Rational vs. Irrational to me. I have given relationships second chances several times, those have been with other irrationals (both N and S). Rationals seem more likely to close chapters permanently.
    I've known several IEIs and IEEs who've written people off quite easily but not their S-counterparts. However, my sample size is quite limited.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    I've known several IEIs and IEEs who've written people off quite easily but not their S-counterparts. However, my sample size is quite limited.

    a.k.a. I/O
    I have gotten back together with both IEE and IEI personally, but my sample size is not greater than that. Otherwise I would agree that IEE can easily leave someone romantically behind for good, but they tend to keep a certain connection alive with everyone only strictly on terms deemed appropriate by the IEE themselves. IEI don’t seem to do that kind of keeping people around ”just in case”.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    I have gotten back together with both IEE and IEI personally, but my sample size is not greater than that. Otherwise I would agree that IEE can easily leave someone romantically behind for good, but they tend to keep a certain connection alive with everyone only strictly on terms deemed appropriate by the IEE themselves. IEI don’t seem to do that kind of keeping people around ”just in case”.
    @Northstar, the problem I have with IEI's is that I find it impossible to feel that they and I are joined at the hip. They have 4D Fi, but they don't value it, so there is always a barrier between us. We can be friends for life, but there is always that barrier. Plus, I feel like they could leave at any time without a regret in the world.

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    Socionics is a spook ashlesha's Avatar
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    IEI and I used to break up every other week, lol. Part of the courting process or something. The dynamic involved his IEI relational ambiguity skills combined with my Ne polr "if this isn't settled, I'll settle it, bye" attitude. Fun combo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @Northstar, the problem I have with IEI's is that I find it impossible to feel that they and I are joined at the hip. They have 4D Fi, but they don't value it, so there is always a barrier between us. We can be friends for life, but there is always that barrier. Plus, I feel like they could leave at any time without a regret in the world.
    Yeah, I don't need to be joined at the hip. It would be suffocating. I want plenty of physical closeness and warm behavior but I'm perfectly fine with having your own space and keeping your thoughts private. Maybe what you mean with the "barrier". Also, it's fine by me that the relationship ends without a regret if it's no longer serving its purpose. A bit of danger and excitement keeps things interesting. I don't want things to become mundane, that is my nightmare. That's why the relationship with SEI ended, I got bored. She told me that I couldn't handle the mundane and always expected something thrilling to happen in life.

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    @
    Northstar, the problem I have with IEI's is that I find it impossible to feel that they and I are joined at the hip.


    Why would you want to be joined at the hip with anybody? I genuinely don't get that.

    But thank you for describing something you don't like about IEIs in a more constructive way honestly. Some of the hatred dished out against IEIs on here have just been kind of ... too venomous? Yes I was being 'oversensitive' and yes it did hurt my feelings a bit but then again, it did feel pretty overly harsh and cruel instead of just logical.

    I hate to be thought of as a 'user' for one even though I think it can look like that way to outsiders because of some of my weaker functions. My ESE mom and ILE male best friend kind of know how to give me my space when I want it and I apperciate that.

    With my duals it's a bit different I think, more awkward and there is this push-pull energy. They want to fuck me and move in with me and be a couple but it's also so awkward like 'how the fuck is this supposed to work' and so we don't stay joined. I probably need something really dramatic and Hollywood-ish to happen to stay joined for a few hours and then still its like 'okay bye' but they are probably okay with that cuz of Fi polr idk. lol

    Sorry for the vent, you can go back to the gamma orgy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @Northstar, the problem I have with IEI's is that I find it impossible to feel that they and I are joined at the hip. They have 4D Fi, but they don't value it, so there is always a barrier between us. We can be friends for life, but there is always that barrier. Plus, I feel like they could leave at any time without a regret in the world.
    IEIs don't like feeling smothered by others although they will often do it to themselves. Ip-types tend to operate behind walls of preconceptions and assumptions. Output (j) oriented types also tend to offer them too many opinions about their walls (which often creates their tunnel vision), and Ejs would likely place too many expectations on them for their liking.

    a.k.a. I/O

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