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Thread: ESI/LIE Conversations

  1. #241
    FreelancePoliceman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I see that they list Judy Hopps as an ESE, because she got into police work in order to rid the world of all sources of evil, and that's definitely what ESE's do.
    I don't think so. Can you explain what you mean any more?

    I think ESEs often immediately want to and try to help when they see something bad happening, but they generally don't really think of themselves as hero types or think in terms so abstract as "ridding the world of all evil", or such a thought would be faint. Like they might entertain the fantasy for a few seconds, enjoy it, and then move on. They seem to be pretty down-to-earth in that way. Judy Hopps isn't realistically characterized and I wouldn't type her, but I think that specific self-conception is more typical of IEEs.

  2. #242

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I took an ESI (BD-her initials for my records) to The Black Pearl*, one of the nicest restaurants in town. The reservation happened to be the day before Valentines Day, which historically has been a very bad day for me in past years. Not just sequential disasters with women, but also in business dealings. The historical record has been two major, major breakups, some very bad days with women, and one house closing which has been a financial loss. The day is not my lucky day.

    This is our fourth or fifth date and she said once again that she only wants to be friends. She said that she can’t see herself ever being in a close relationship again, after her two previous husbands and some very crappy boyfriends. She said she was only on Match.com because her shrink told her she needed to get out of the house and meet new people. I seem to be getting nowhere with her, but I’m discovering a lot because she’s the first ESI I’ve ever been on “formal” dates with.
    For example, when I compare her to my two LSI girlfriends, with the ESI, I’ve managed to shake her hand. With the LSI’s, we were having hot sex at this point.

    Someone wrote that Mirage relationships (LIE-LSI) are relationships of increasing relaxation, and I completely agree with this, because I’ve been expecting this to happen with the ESI, as it did with the LSIs, and it is not happening. I feel comfortable around the ESI, but not relaxed. It’s more like I feel like I should be doing better in my life than I am.

    The ESI ordered white wine and I ordered black coffee and we both had the clam chowder and the trout. As we were eating, I was looking around. The theme was black and dark, with ghostly sails rotating over our heads and the only illumination coming from behind the wall of bottles over the bar. The effect was like being on a ghost ship in the dead of night, adrift off the coast with the lights of a city burning on the coast.

    The chowder was average, but the trout was excellent. As we ate, the ESI said
    ”My father choked to death on food.”
    I thought, “???????”
    ”He only halfway swallowed. His eyes got really big and he looked scared. I called for help but my brother ran out of the room. I guess he’d never seen a person die before.”


    So, another typical Valentines Day for me.



    *

    The Black Pearl is a fictional ship in the Pirates of the Caribbean film series. In the screenplay, the Black Pearl is easily recognized by her distinctive black hull and sails. Captained by Captain Jack Sparrow, she is said to be "nigh uncatchable". - Wikipedia
    it's cool psychologically when people share shit. yes, that's a lot for a dinner divulgement, and this person is only here for friendship, but....cool opportunity to connect
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

  3. #243
    Moharu's Avatar
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    ESI-LIE Anime gayness count?

  4. #244
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    I know a gay ESI. We’ve known each other for ten years and have had many conversations. He even “defended” me against a group that was critical of how much I took from the company vs how much I contributed. Lol.

    He’s a good guy but he’s deep in the closet. I think he secretly wishes that I were gay, also.

  5. #245

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moharu View Post


    ESI-LIE Anime gayness count?
    I rarely see our weirdness captured so well. I feel seen af


    rarely see our duality depicted so well, either
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

  6. #246

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    He’s a good guy but he’s deep in the closet. I think he secretly wishes that I were gay, also.
    Straight guys often think that but it's really doubtful. We really don't want you - although I know 'straight guy' fetish porn is popular it usually seems to me like some fringe thing for guys that can't come out yet. Straight male pheromones are a huge turn-off to real gay guys. Whenever I smell my sister's boyfriends
    I end up gagging. I don't even know how she can even do that.

    If we appear extra nice or friendly or even crush-y somewhat- it might be because certain str8 male logics can balance out gay male emotions or something I don't know lol. And we often deeply appreciate a nice straight guy that isn't a bully or douche (cuz its such a stereotype to encounter a str8 male asshole, it's kinda refreshing if he's tapped into his humanity or 'sensitive' side). But I doubt it's romantic at all.

    Or maybe I'm wrong and he really likes you. That probably would fade the more he comes out of the closet though.



  7. #247
    Socionics is a spook ashlesha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post


    Straight guys often think that but it's really doubtful. We really don't want you - although I know 'straight guy' fetish porn is popular it usually seems to me like some fringe thing for guys that can't come out yet. Straight male pheromones are a huge turn-off to real gay guys. Whenever I smell my sister's boyfriends
    I end up gagging. I don't even know how she can even do that.

    If we appear extra nice or friendly or even crush-y somewhat- it might be because certain str8 male logics can balance out gay male emotions or something I don't know lol. And we often deeply appreciate a nice straight guy that isn't a bully or douche (cuz its such a stereotype to encounter a str8 male asshole, it's kinda refreshing if he's tapped into his humanity or 'sensitive' side). But I doubt it's romantic at all.

    Or maybe I'm wrong and he really likes you. That probably would fade the more he comes out of the closet though.


    straight guy fetish porn. when i say quarantine has kinda messed me up i think people don't take me seriously

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post


    Straight guys often think that but it's really doubtful. We really don't want you - although I know 'straight guy' fetish porn is popular it usually seems to me like some fringe thing for guys that can't come out yet. Straight male pheromones are a huge turn-off to real gay guys. Whenever I smell my sister's boyfriends
    I end up gagging. I don't even know how she can even do that.

    If we appear extra nice or friendly or even crush-y somewhat- it might be because certain str8 male logics can balance out gay male emotions or something I don't know lol. And we often deeply appreciate a nice straight guy that isn't a bully or douche (cuz its such a stereotype to encounter a str8 male asshole, it's kinda refreshing if he's tapped into his humanity or 'sensitive' side). But I doubt it's romantic at all.

    Or maybe I'm wrong and he really likes you. That probably would fade the more he comes out of the closet though.


    @BandD, the ESI has never indicated in the slightest that he's sexually interested in me. Instead, we've known each other for ten years and we really just get along well. As in, we respect and support each other and depend on each other to some extent. I think he likes the ease with which we get along.

    I always thought that the ESI was just a loner, since he lives alone and doesn't date. I didn't know he was gay until about two years ago, when he took up with a gay male ILI. They started hanging out together which was normal enough and then they'd have these spats, which seemed weird for co-workers but kind of natural for sex partners. I got the impression that the ESI wanted a guy who was more extroverted, and the ILI wanted a guy who chased him harder. The ESI just seemed really frustrated sometimes when the ILI would put him off for no reason, even for little things like when they would go to lunch together.

    I think that the ESI was comparing his relationship with the ILI to his relationship with me, and that's why I said that I thought he wished I were gay. Not because he's lusting for me. I'd absolutely say that he is not. But rather because our interaction is smoother and more about what each of us is expecting from another person, while his relationship with the ILI is full of little jarring incidents.

    He has hinted at how he feels about his situation in conversations with me before. He's said that, everything considered, he's pretty happy with his choices.

    "Everything considered" is the important part.

  9. #249

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    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    straight guy fetish porn. when i say quarantine has kinda messed me up i think people don't take me seriously
    ESI to ESI, i take you seriously

    (and i've also felt that some haven't really understood what i meant when i've tried to describe how quarantine has affected me...:/ oh well, i let it pass. i get it and enough of my friends get it. found this article helpful for giving voice to some of it, most usefully the longer-term trends that even preceded quarantine life, that i wasnt necessarily aware of before quarantine began: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/19/m...n-culture.html)

  10. #250
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    ESI sp/sx (initials BD), to LIE: The last guy I went out with said he wanted to see my cat. That sounded strange. I asked my girlfriend what he meant by that. She said, "You know. Your cat."

    LIE: -_-

    LIE thinks, "I can't read this at all. Is she really this dumb? Why did she bring up sex? And why does this feel like a warning?"


    I think I'm having a problem with the ESI's ambiguity. I've had two long-term LSI GFs, and there was no ambiguity with them at all.
    It's exactly like what @Rebelondeck described here:


    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    LSIs are very literal. Only quantifiable things are acceptable and only quantifiable things are produced; there's very little ambiguity with them at all.
    ESIs prefer quantifiable input but often don't produce it for others; they can be quite ambiguous but hate it when someone else is. They seem to turn quantifiable information into the qualitative, which can make them rather inventive in an artistic sense.
    ESIs tend to have much thinner skins and seem less confident in themselves than LSIs, but this can be all for show. LSIs seem far more rigid, inflexible and or regimented while ESIs have a soft outer layer that covers an equally hard interior. To tell them apart, look for a soft coat, and if it's not there, think LSI......

    a.k.a. I/O
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 02-28-2021 at 04:30 PM.

  11. #251
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    On 1D Fi vs. 4D Fi: Assholes vs. Emotional Nuance

    #1

    ESI to LIE: “I’m not advancing in my work. Some of the other girls that hired in at the same time I did are making five, ten dollars an hour more than me. But when the bosses say, “Let’s go out for pizza and beer”, the other girls do that. I don’t. I just want to work.
    “I think my problem is that I’m just not willing to act like a prostitute to get ahead.”

    LIE to ESI: “You’re not wrong. You have to stick with who you are. Your problem is that you’re too faithful.
    “A better solution than trying to fit in where you are right now would be to simply apply to different places to work. Ask for a LOT more money. Most places will say No, but eventually you’ll find a place that likes you and is willing to pay you more.”

    ESI just looks at LIE: “That’s very black-and-white thinking.”

    LIE thinks, “It is?”




    #2 ESI tolerance of assholes:

    LIE to ESI: “I’ve never actually gone out with a woman like you before. I had drunk sex with one once and she was actually pretty great, but she lived too far away to keep doing that.
    “There is this one woman that I think is perfect, but she’s 26 and she likes women.”

    ESI to LIE: “The Artist? You told me about her before.”

    LIE: “Yes. I don't think that her sleeping with women is actually an impediment in my book. I’m not sure….”

    ESI: “You think she’s just young and is still making random choices?”

    LIE: “I don’t know.”

    ESI: “Maybe you should just ask her.”

    LIE thinks, “She’s amazingly tolerant of a guy talking about banging other women when she’s sitting across a restaurant table from him. Is this some kind of nuanced, complex ethical thinking which understands all things?”

  12. #252
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    On ESIs “Dealing a Blow”

    ESI Nurse, to LIE, over lunch: “I get along with most of the doctors, but some of them are just jerks. I once arrived at the hospital and two nurses came out of the operating room in tears. “He’s being so mean”, they said.
    “I told them that I’d take over. I went in and the doctor said, “Did you bring the (insert the name of some surgical instrument that I didn’t catch – ed.)?

    “I said (here the ESI shifts to a forceful, sarcastic, extremely critical voice) “No, because I’m a complete fucking idiot.”
    “He behaved himself for the rest of the day.

    “Sometimes, I think they think I’m Nurse Ratched, but I don’t care. He made those two nurses cry.”

  13. #253
    Northstar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    On ESIs “Dealing a Blow”

    ESI Nurse, to LIE, over lunch: “I get along with most of the doctors, but some of them are just jerks. I once arrived at the hospital and two nurses came out of the operating room in tears. “He’s being so mean”, they said.
    “I told them that I’d take over. I went in and the doctor said, “Did you bring the (insert the name of some surgical instrument that I didn’t catch – ed.)?

    “I said (here the ESI shifts to a forceful, sarcastic, extremely critical voice) “No, because I’m a complete fucking idiot.”
    “He behaved himself for the rest of the day.

    “Sometimes, I think they think I’m Nurse Ratched, but I don’t care. He made those two nurses cry.”
    I don't see how this was dealing a blow. Does it relate to low valued Fi? My spontaneous reaction to that would be "Well, go back and get it then, and lose the attitude"

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    I don't see how this was dealing a blow. Does it relate to low valued Fi? My spontaneous reaction to that would be "Well, go back and get it then, and lose the attitude"
    I don't think she ever loses the attitude, to be honest. She seems to be unaffected by other people.

    As for "dealing a blow", she did make the surgeon change his behavior. I suspect that she had some sixth sense about what would work with him. If he had been an SLE, she might have directly criticized his moral behavior in front of the other doctors, IDK.

    I've never interacted with a female ESI for so long before. She's very different from other women. She dresses like a runway model and acts like she has to correct the world's morals. I've been taking her to lunch for months and she's never worn the same thing twice.

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