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Thread: ESI/LIE Conversations

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    [story about ESI and water pipes]
    ... Could she take a picture of the valve so you could see it? Or call a plumber if you got there and it wasn't the right one? I feel like there are a few more options than what was considered and eliminated, lol. Maybe she was flustered and they didn't occur to her.

    I'm not an ESI, but when I was single one of my plausibly deniable flirting techniques was to ask for advice or help. I had a very similar interaction to the one you describe with my now-husband a few months before we started dating. My car brakes needed replacing and I made a FB post asking for advice from anyone who cared to answer. Of course, the kind of person who would answer and be actually helpful is the kind of person I wanted to interact with more, and I figured it could be a great opportunity to build up some relational strength/ties. My now-husband answered with not only advice but an offer to help me do it if I could bring my car out to where he lived. It turned out those particular brakes were the more complicated kind, and I ended up determining that it would be more practical and efficient to just take it into my regular mechanic, especially since he lived 45 minutes away and I would have been cold the whole time. I wasn't that motivated. So I never actually utilized the offered help.

    Fortunately he still invited me to group things he organized and included me on a few email list kinds of things and appeared at mutual friend gatherings, so I had more opportunities to explore his potential and create connection.

    So, anyway, different dynamic than your particular types, but I thought the similarity in situation was kinda interesting.
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  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    ... Could she take a picture of the valve so you could see it? Or call a plumber if you got there and it wasn't the right one? I feel like there are a few more options than what was considered and eliminated, lol. Maybe she was flustered and they didn't occur to her.

    I'm not an ESI, but when I was single one of my plausibly deniable flirting techniques was to ask for advice or help. I had a very similar interaction to the one you describe with my now-husband a few months before we started dating. My car brakes needed replacing and I made a FB post asking for advice from anyone who cared to answer. Of course, the kind of person who would answer and be actually helpful is the kind of person I wanted to interact with more, and I figured it could be a great opportunity to build up some relational strength/ties. My now-husband answered with not only advice but an offer to help me do it if I could bring my car out to where he lived. It turned out those particular brakes were the more complicated kind, and I ended up determining that it would be more practical and efficient to just take it into my regular mechanic, especially since he lived 45 minutes away and I would have been cold the whole time. I wasn't that motivated. So I never actually utilized the offered help.

    Fortunately he still invited me to group things he organized and included me on a few email list kinds of things and appeared at mutual friend gatherings, so I had more opportunities to explore his potential and create connection.

    So, anyway, different dynamic than your particular types, but I thought the similarity in situation was kinda interesting.
    Thanks, @Minde.

    She probably is flirting, but panicked when I suggested meeting her at her place. She is so Avoidant to close relationships that even if she did want to date, I doubt if I'd be into it. I first met her five years ago and she's been "You stay on your side of the planet" since then. I have a need for a shorter feedback loop.

    I first saw my ex-wife at an astronomy club meeting and I resolved to talk to her after the meeting, but she got up and left at the halfway point. I met her again on a field trip that the astronomy club took to Yerkes Observatory, and after that, she asked me if I could come to her apartment to help align her sister's telescope. I said, "Sure."

    Total time, less than one month. And my ex was both sx-last and pretty Avoidant, too. I really don't need a woman who is 60X to 100X more avoidant than my ex.

    I mostly posted that vignette so that people could see an ESI, albeit an Avoidant one, in action.

  3. #203
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    One time after inviting my LIE friend to a punk show with a young crowd...


    LIE: The thing about zoomer culture I have a problem with is its relation to nihilism and postmodernism, the irony isn't even ironic anymore, it's not interesting until it goes around in another loop and starts referencing itself, but that in itself is just an endless feedback loop

    ESI (me): I agree with you but I just got kicked in the head, I think I have a concussion so my brain can't even work through what you just said

  4. #204
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    I’ve been exchanging texts for six months on the dating site Match.com with a recently cheated-on and divorced RN ESI-Si (I know. But she might be an SEI.) . She isn’t very talkative and she doesn’t initiate much, but she recently has been saying nice things about me.

    This feels kind of strange to me because I tend to judge people more by what they do rather than what they say. It’s almost as if she wants to be understood and is telling herself that she likes me before she interacts with me in person.
    Weird. I hope she’s not delusional.

    *EDIT*
    She really puzzles me. In many pictures, she looks either SEI or grumpy ESI. In a couple pictures where she’s kayaking and having the time of her life, she looks EII. In a picture with her family, her father looks Si and her son looks LII and she looks slightly crazy. I think her ex is an Alpha. But when I met her in person, I felt completely comfortable with her and when I talked about investing, she looked pure ESI.
    I wonder if she grew up in an Alpha home and married an Alpha and has been bent and misunderstood and alienated ever since?

    A Gamma raised in an Alpha household would be bad. I grew up in a Delta household and I always felt like a wolf raised by ducks. Why the hell can’t I fly? When am I going to get feathers? Why am I failing their expectations all the time?
    I have Alpha cousins. The feeling of alienation with them was much worse. Every time I visited their house, I felt like I was among space aliens.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 10-26-2020 at 05:29 PM.

  5. #205
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    I’ve been talking for five years to an ESI-Se who owns a lawn care company. We went on one date where she told me that I talk too much and I told her my net worth and she won’t go out with me a second time, although she calls me from time to time for Te/Ni advice or to flirt.

    In Gulenko’s DCNH system, she’s a clear D. But so am I. I think she’s looking for a guy that she can dominate.

    So yesterday she texted me with some questions and started flirting (she clearly likes ME but doesn’t like our net worth differential) and I complained that my business is in trouble (probably true) and that I paid taxes on $35k last year (which is strictly true. Thank you, tax attorney. There have been years when I paid no taxes before I figured out that that was a bad idea. But with low Ni, she might not see the missing part of that statement) and she suddenly got a lot friendlier when I appeared poorer.

    She is definitely looking for a guy she can own.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 10-26-2020 at 03:26 PM.

  6. #206
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    LIE: Money. Facts. Capitalism. Financial security. Office meetings. Efficiency. More boring corporate shit. Help, I can't relate to people, because no one gives a shit about any of the neat things I listed above.
    ESI: I may be a stone cold bitch on the outside, but I really care about you deep down in the bottom of my icy heart. As long as you continue to get $500k a year, that's all I care about. I will love you unconditionally and never let go.
    LIE: Thanks, I was getting worried there for a second that I'd be alone for the rest of my life. Now I know that someone cares about me, even if they really only care about my paycheck. Nice!

  7. #207
    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by queentiger View Post
    LIE: Money. Facts. Capitalism. Financial security. Office meetings. Efficiency. More boring corporate shit. Help, I can't relate to people, because no one gives a shit about any of the neat things I listed above.
    ESI: I may be a stone cold bitch on the outside, but I really care about you deep down in the bottom of my icy heart. As long as you continue to get $500k a year, that's all I care about. I will love you unconditionally and never let go.
    LIE: Thanks, I was getting worried there for a second that I'd be alone for the rest of my life. Now I know that someone cares about me, even if they really only care about my paycheck. Nice!

    Thanks, QT. A classic. Best ESI-LIE conversation on this thread.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Thanks, QT. A classic. Best ESI-LIE conversation on this thread.
    Anytime, though I can't take all the credit - I pulled it from the SLE domain on Wikisocion.

  9. #209

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    The 44 yo never-been-married ESI whom I went on one date with two years ago and who looks like Peggy Lee and owns a lawn care company called me and asked if I know a good plumber. I gave her the name of a guy that I use and she thanked me and then said she had some other questions.

    One of them was whether or not I still saw my ex-wife, and I said that she has been with her new BF since March and I'm glad she found someone. This ESI has insisted on keeping our relationship strictly business, but she remembered the name of my son and my ex. She seems really concerned about whether or not I still see my ex, like that is a huge deal for her for some obscure reason. I repeated that No, I don't see her much anymore at all. The ESI was laughing and kind of teasing on the phone and I thought she sounded horny but I figured that she is Avoidant and I'm not going to try to kick Lucy's football again until she clearly asks for it.

    She then asked me if I knew anything about plumbing myself and I said I did. She asked me if I thought I could change a 3/4" valve from round-handle compression style to a lever-handled ball valve, and I said I could and I might even have the valve she needs in my basement, but I'd have to see the valve in question to know for sure, since they come in different styles.

    She said, "Can you be absolutely sure that you can change the valve, or not? I don't want to be without hot water for a day."

    "No, I can't be absolutely sure, not until I see the valve."

    "It's in my basement."

    "I'm busy right now, but I could be there in an hour to look at it and then I could tell you either A. I can fix it immediately, or B. I don't have the shutoff valve that will fit and you'll have to wait until Saturday when I can buy the right valve and install it."

    "You could be here in an hour?" Now she wasn't sounding so bright and perky.

    "Yes."

    "How do I know that you'll keep your word?"

    "What? It's ten minutes to collect the tools, ten minutes out the door and twenty minutes to your place. I doubt if I'll get lost."

    "But you aren't certain that you can fix it. Never mind. I'll just call a plumber tomorrow." Lol.

    "OK, fine. Let me know if you need any more help." Like when you're eighty.


    See, for example, the first line under the heading "Chapter Four. Overview."

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ng-an-ISFj-ESI
    hm...I know an EII enneagram 4 that reminds me of this...
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

  10. #210

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    Quote Originally Posted by queentiger View Post
    LIE: Money. Facts. Capitalism. Financial security. Office meetings. Efficiency. More boring corporate shit. Help, I can't relate to people, because no one gives a shit about any of the neat things I listed above.
    ESI: I may be a stone cold bitch on the outside, but I really care about you deep down in the bottom of my icy heart. As long as you continue to get $500k a year, that's all I care about. I will love you unconditionally and never let go.
    LIE: Thanks, I was getting worried there for a second that I'd be alone for the rest of my life. Now I know that someone cares about me, even if they really only care about my paycheck. Nice!
    i don't relate to this. I know it's half-hyperbole and all...but ....I actually prefer to be with someone who isn't so focused on money they can't see me and to be with someone who wants to work with or psychologically support me as I work at my enterprise but who is with me for the spark (wants chemistry and love) and for the fun and the adventure, not strictly there for whatever money comes along, and....at least partners of LIE-Ni, can't be only in it for the money because we can be so risk loving and so into a development/project that we forget financial stuff. I have companies I worked with trying to pay me......

    And I see the esi carefulness and nervousness regarding Ni and Ne in LSI, too. It's not money-grubbiness and using a LIE for their money...it's more good brakes....like that story one of the socionists shared about a LIE who kept handing out household items to people who needed them (something I do, too), and the ESI spouse finally realized their house staples were going out the door and confronted the reappropriating LIE and explained their life couldn't function well at a certain point of de-stocking. The LIE listened and stopped giving away all the winter coats, etc.


    there's a practicality to ESI and LSI and a conserving quality that can keep EIE and LIE balanced. We're great at being opportunistic, and that's great and quite adaptive for SOME scenarios. We help out the less integrated and less (in that way) resourceful XSI types. But they're resourceful in helping us retain and let go of stuff when it makes sense to for Si reasons or whatever.
    Last edited by nanashi; 10-27-2020 at 07:55 AM. Reason: apparently I don't read and need to correct my writing so ppl know wtf I mean :)
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

  11. #211
    black Uncle Ave's Avatar
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    I don't relate to it either. I find it depressing, if taken literally, the idea that someone could be into me for money I make and not for me.

    Those descriptions are meant to be funny, not sure why you would base your ideal relationship on them though.
    Don't quote me boy cuz I ain't sayin' shit

  12. #212

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post

    A Gamma raised in an Alpha household would be bad. I grew up in a Delta household and I always felt like a wolf raised by ducks. Why the hell can’t I fly? When am I going to get feathers? Why am I failing their expectations all the time?

    THIS.

    I felt like that all the freaking time with a delta parent.

    And I like that I get feedback from people on how I interact because it helps me get back to a more genuine me and to start to grow in ways that I need to versus kind of putting parts of myself in stasis in order to have an easier time in a delta ish place.

    Also glad I got the influence from an EII, though. Very useful and increased my skills/health.
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ave View Post
    I don't relate to it either. I find it depressing, if taken literally, the idea that someone could be into me for money I make and not for me.

    Those descriptions are meant to be funny, not sure why you would base your ideal relationship on them though.
    @Uncle Ave, those descriptions are meant to be funny, but they contain a kernel of truth. I am repulsed by gold diggers and when a woman starts asking me for money, I'm willing to help out to a certain extent but not if she expects it. I'm actually horrified by transactional relationships if they are with people whom I really want Fi from.

    I just got off the phone with an ESI who said she'd go out with me if I bribe her.

    I said, "Now, what would you like as a bribe? I know you like money and beer and loyalty."

    "That's right. How did you know that?"

    "I have some wine in the basement, but I don't want our first meeting to be one where you are drunk. How about lunch somewhere? I know you probably like dive bars." (My ESI buddy likes dive bars.)

    (Sounds slightly disappointed and offended) "I like dive bars because I can meet very interesting people there."

    "OK, not a dive bar. How about Cafe Zola on Saturday?"

    "Mmmmm.....Cafe Zola. They have the best cheeseburgers." (Adam thinks this is going to be a cheap date.) "But not Saturday. I'm working that day."

    Adam is starting to get pissed off at her analysis paralysis.

    "Sunday"

    "No."

    "Monday"

    "No."

    "Tuesday."

    "No."

    "Stop this. I'm calling you on Tuesday and that's when we're going out."

    "No. I won't answer the phone."

    "I'm calling you. I'm marking it on the calendar."

    "Don't mark it on the calendar. I will be tired that day."

    "Then a nice lunch will be exactly what you need."

    "Don't call me. I'm going to be busy."

    "I'm calling you. Goodby." (Adam hangs up.)

    Adam gets a text from her. "Thank you."
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 10-29-2020 at 06:24 PM.

  14. #214

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @Uncle Ave, those descriptions are meant to be funny, but they contain a kernel of truth. I am repulsed by gold diggers and when a woman starts asking me for money, I'm willing to help out to a certain extent but not if she expects it. I'm actually horrified by transactional relationships if they are with people whom I really want Fi from.

    I just got off the phone with an ESI who said she'd go out with me if I bribe her.

    I said, "Now, what would you like as a bribe? I know you like money and beer and loyalty."

    "That's right. How did you know that?"

    "I have some wine in the basement, but I don't want our first meeting to be one where you are drunk. How about lunch somewhere? I know you probably like dive bars." (My ESI buddy likes dive bars.)

    (Sounds slightly disappointed and offended) "I like dive bars because I can meet very interesting people there."

    "OK, not a dive bar. How about Cafe Zola on Saturday?"

    "Mmmmm.....Cafe Zola. They have the best cheeseburgers." (Adam thinks this is going to be a cheap date.) "But not Saturday. I'm working that day."

    Adam is starting to get pissed off at her analysis paralysis.

    "Sunday"

    "No."

    "Monday"

    "No."

    "Tuesday."

    "No."

    "Stop this. I'm calling you on Tuesday and that's when we're going out."

    "No. I won't answer the phone."

    "I'm calling you. I'm marking it on the calendar."

    "Don't mark it on the calendar. I will be tired that day."

    "Then a nice lunch will be exactly what you need."

    "Don't call me. I'm going to be busy."

    "I'm calling you. Goodby." (Adam hangs up.)

    Adam gets a text from her. "Thank you."
    I don't understand the verbal exchange's context.Is this person depressed and anxious or something? Are they afraid of you and just feeling coerced but are used to coercion? This sounds unhealthy, but I can't process it. What is going on ?

    Spidey sense: problem.
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanashi View Post
    I don't understand the verbal exchange's context.Is this person depressed and anxious or something? Are they afraid of you and just feeling coerced but are used to coercion? This sounds unhealthy, but I can't process it. What is going on ?

    Spidey sense: problem.

    I'm trying to recall a totally healthy relationship that I've been in..........


    .........uh, yeah. I got nothing.

  16. #216

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I'm trying to recall a totally healthy relationship that I've been in..........


    .........uh, yeah. I got nothing.
    hug


    well, that's just ,YET
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

  17. #217
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    ESI: “I think that women should get MORE than 50% after a divorce.”

    LIE, carefully not choking on coffee: “You do? My ex-wife thought so, too. She kind of made a point of it.”

    ESI: “It’s more expensive being a girl. Everything costs more. Haircuts, pedicures.” She shows the LIE her hand, bereft of nail polish or rings. “I can’t even afford to have my nails done now.”

    LIE is grateful that he wore shoes to this meeting so his own unpainted toenails are not glaringly obvious.

  18. #218

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    ESI: “I think that women should get MORE than 50% after a divorce.”

    LIE, carefully not choking on coffee: “You do? My ex-wife thought so, too. She kind of made a point of it.”

    ESI: “It’s more expensive being a girl. Everything costs more. Haircuts, pedicures.” She shows the LIE her hand, bereft of nail polish or rings. “I can’t even afford to have my nails done now.”

    LIE is grateful that he wore shoes to this meeting so his own unpainted toenails are not glaringly obvious.




    also, can anyone explain what this ESI might be feeling? thinking? I genuinely don't get it. Is it insecurity on ESI's part and assuming LIE doesn't like that her hands aren't professionally painted?

    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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