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Thread: ESI/LIE Conversations

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    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    Default ESI/LIE Conversations

    A thread to record random IRL conversations between ESI's and LIE's.

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    Total sweetheart PussyInASarcophagus's Avatar
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    Lol OK then

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    First one I got:

    LIE: A thread to record random IRL conversations between ESI's and LIE's.

    ESI: Lol OK then

    *LIE likes this*

    feel free to add more guys

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    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    OK, I've got some time now.

    Background:
    My company has been working with an automotive supplier for a few months now to add a camera to cars (for reasons beyond this post). Every Monday we meet with the car company's engineering team, coordinated by an ESI on their side. At first, I thought the ESI was kind of a hard ass, because he was not friendly at all, but over the past few months, we have been working more closely and we found we see eye-to-eye on almost everything. We actually work really well together as a team. I provide the vision and general design for the product, and he covers all the parts of making a working model, including a lot that I never thought of. I've asked him out to lunch a couple times (this is a big contract and I don't want anything to go wrong) and, as predicted by Socionics, he and I get along better and better with more exposure. Incidentally, he knows nothing of Socionics.

    Last week, I couldn't attend the meeting in person but instead logged into it on-line. The ESI was presiding and said he regretted that I couldn't be there, but was looking forward to my input on the meeting topics.

    Before the meeting formally started, someone mentioned that the weather this year was warmer than last year. The ESI agreed, and said "Last year there was snow on the ground. Our hearts needed cleaning." I think he meant to say our walks needed cleaning.

    As the meeting progressed and the topic of the wavelength limits of the two-spectral band investigation of the road came up, the ESI said "It's a matter of getting the right edge. Neither one is complete." <this is strangely reminiscent of Duality.

    Still later in the meeting, while discussing the coordination between the timing signals from the output and receive circuits, the ESI said "This receiver kind of wants to be master." < I think this is a very Introverted Aggressor thing to say.

    He's recently divorced. I'd fix him up with a single female LIE that I know, but she's 32 and he's about 50.

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    LIE:
    Hi, (ESI's name here).
    Are you up for some tacos at Tmaz Taqueria in an hour or two? My treat.

    ESI:
    Please consider learning how to plan ahead a little further.

    LIE:
    Is that a "No"?
    I haven't eaten yet.

    ESI:
    Or put another way, the chances of me showing up with an hours notice is zero to negative zero.
    That is a no

    LIE:
    How about tomorrow for dinner? The taco place is closed, but Seva is open.

    ESI:
    You pretty much called me fat, which pretty much earned you a spot on the permanent poop list.

    LIE:
    What?
    You're not fat.
    I could not have called you fat because I don't believe you are fat, and I never lie. Not lying makes my life easier.

    ESI:
    You're the one that wins against the odds. Consider finding another girl who is more physically to your liking.


    -Adam: Man, this woman is a hard sell.

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    Socionics is a spook ashlesha's Avatar
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    It sounds like she was already biased against you. If she liked you, I think she'd adapt a little bit before knowing you, or at least say she was busy, instead of all that nonsense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    LIE:
    Hi, (ESI's name here).
    Are you up for some tacos at Tmaz Taqueria in an hour or two? My treat.

    ESI:
    Please consider learning how to plan ahead a little further.

    LIE:
    Is that a "No"?
    I haven't eaten yet.

    ESI:
    Or put another way, the chances of me showing up with an hours notice is zero to negative zero.
    That is a no

    LIE:
    How about tomorrow for dinner? The taco place is closed, but Seva is open.

    ESI:
    You pretty much called me fat, which pretty much earned you a spot on the permanent poop list.

    LIE:
    What?
    You're not fat.
    I could not have called you fat because I don't believe you are fat, and I never lie. Not lying makes my life easier.

    ESI:
    You're the one that wins against the odds. Consider finding another girl who is more physically to your liking.


    -Adam: Man, this woman is a hard sell.
    In this particular conversation, ESI definitely does not sound like an ESI or Ne-polr. If I had to type this person solely based on this conversation, I would say that this person is IEE. She uses wordy sentences, explains herself by describing things using another form, speaks alternatively, communicates indirectly, refrains from directly saying no and uses soft guilt trip/whip combo(you called me fat, permanent poop list).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    LIE:
    Hi, (ESI's name here).
    Are you up for some tacos at Tmaz Taqueria in an hour or two? My treat.

    ESI:
    Please consider learning how to plan ahead a little further.

    LIE:
    Is that a "No"?
    I haven't eaten yet.

    ESI:
    Or put another way, the chances of me showing up with an hours notice is zero to negative zero.
    That is a no

    LIE:
    How about tomorrow for dinner? The taco place is closed, but Seva is open.

    ESI:
    You pretty much called me fat, which pretty much earned you a spot on the permanent poop list.

    LIE:
    What?
    You're not fat.
    I could not have called you fat because I don't believe you are fat, and I never lie. Not lying makes my life easier.

    ESI:
    You're the one that wins against the odds. Consider finding another girl who is more physically to your liking.


    -Adam: Man, this woman is a hard sell.
    This chick sounds like an idiot ...

    I also don't understand how she could have interpreted that as being called fat. maybe I'm the idiot here.. but doesn't mean she isnt 1 too

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    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myresearch View Post
    In this particular conversation, ESI definitely does not sound like an ESI or Ne-polr. If I had to type this person solely based on this conversation, I would say that this person is IEE. She uses wordy sentences, explains herself by describing things using another form, speaks alternatively, communicates indirectly, refrains from directly saying no and uses soft guilt trip/whip combo(you called me fat, permanent poop list).
    @myresearch, this is very insightful. The woman VI's like an ESI and I'm pretty sure she is an ESI-Se e6, but I'd call her Avoidant (she's 42 and never been married) and her father is SLI. She has a thing for SLI's (her Daddy is one), but she also showed me a picture of the only guy she ever considered marrying, and he was a clear ILI. I know a few female IEE's, and she's not at all similar to them.

    But it is interesting that you said she sounds like an IEE. I imagine that her father has strongly influenced her. And not in a good way.

    And, of course, it is also possible that I have mis-typed everyone related to this clusterfuck.

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    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingslayer View Post
    This chick sounds like an idiot ...

    I also don't understand how she could have interpreted that as being called fat. maybe I'm the idiot here.. but doesn't mean she isnt 1 too
    @kingslayer, she was referring to an earlier convo that she and I had. She had asked me to describe my previous GF's, and I said they were all really thin. She has a more normal build, but I didn't say that. I'm sure that I actually didn't say anything at all about her build. I'm assuming that, as @ashlesha said, she had already made up her mind about a guy who was interested in her and was looking for a reason to keep him at arm's length.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    LIE:
    Hi, (ESI's name here).
    Are you up for some tacos at Tmaz Taqueria in an hour or two? My treat.

    ESI:
    Please consider learning how to plan ahead a little further.

    LIE:
    Is that a "No"?
    I haven't eaten yet.

    ESI:
    Or put another way, the chances of me showing up with an hours notice is zero to negative zero.
    That is a no

    LIE:
    How about tomorrow for dinner? The taco place is closed, but Seva is open.

    ESI:
    You pretty much called me fat, which pretty much earned you a spot on the permanent poop list.

    LIE:
    What?
    You're not fat.
    I could not have called you fat because I don't believe you are fat, and I never lie. Not lying makes my life easier.

    ESI:
    You're the one that wins against the odds. Consider finding another girl who is more physically to your liking.


    -Adam: Man, this woman is a hard sell.
    Christ sounds like a cunt. Tell her to remove that stick off her ass already

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    Quote Originally Posted by PussyInASarcophagus View Post
    Christ sounds like a cunt. Tell her to remove that stick off her ass already
    I’ve already given up on her.

    When a woman is interested, it doesn’t take her that long to make up her mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I’ve already given up on her.

    When a woman is interested, it doesn’t take her that long to make up her mind.
    http://www.bestpuatraining.com/indicators-of-interest

    these should help you determine which women to ask out so you don't waste your time or breath stroking the ego of such stuck up idiots that were previously mentioned before.

    I in no way advocate "Pick up Artists" but that link has good information about body language indicators of interest from women.

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    Background:

    I first met the above ESI when I saw her working in the yard across the street. (She owns a lawn service company.) I went over to talk to her and after goofing around for about 45 minutes, she suggested going out for “a burger and beer but no sex”. I thought, WTF? But invited her out. She said she was busy for a month or two, but she’d let me know.

    In the next two years, we’d sometimes talk when she was working across the street. Sometimes these conversations would last an hour and I found myself really liking her. She seemed to like me, too, but said that I talk too much. She said that a couple times.

    She eventually found time to go out, and we got some takeout and headed to a dock on a river in a park. We talked for six hours, then went back to my place, where we talked for another two hours, and then she left. And then she refused to go out with me again. I think she likes me (maybe so much it scares her) but she is super-Avoidant. Which I wish were not the case, but I’m not going to change a lifetime of training before the sun grows dim. She is who she is.

    A couple weeks ago, a package was delivered to my house in the rain, but I was in another state and so called her (because she sometimes works in the neighborhood) to see if she would pick up the package so it wouldn’t get soaked, and she happily agreed. (I later picked it up from her customer across the street.)

    Today I saw her across the street, so I decided to thank her personally for being willing to save my Fedex package from the rain. She saw me as I crossed the street and I called out “Hi, (her name here)!”
    She stopped what she was doing and her body tensed up. I stopped my approach on the tree lawn.

    ”Thanks for being willing to take my package out of the rain last week.”

    ”You are welcome.”

    The microseconds stretched on and I said nothing. I started to turn away.

    ”Thanks for keeping it short”, she said.

    ”Thanks for keeping it short?”, I thought? WTF. ESI’s, masters of layered meanings.

    I extended my arms out like glider wings and caught the updrafts back into the street.

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    I think she likes me (maybe so much it scares her) but she is super-Avoidant.
    This is a pattern i seem to see with "my" esi-ses all the time. I think a good idea is to simply note what they are saying but listen to what your intuition tells you about the whole thing. One of them made me know for sure what she really meant with her "no" because she clearly had a heavy crush on me at this time. I think she would have needed me to take the responsibility off her shoulders and simply pull through. Didn't do it because while she was about perfect for me, she was not in the age range to found a family on with me.

    I do start to think the whole ambiguity thing could be a way to screen for lie traits, it takes a type with 4Dne to figure them out.
    Right now I am at a point where i tend to believe that there are two important things when interacting with them:
    Trust your gut (intuitive understanding) and -as soon as you have made your interest known-ether pull it through or leave them alone. I've noticed, even though with a small sample size, that the ESI-Ses i was courting in one way or another were always keeping me at arms-lenght, they did not close the distance by themselves but showed when i could (sometimes while saying no) and when i decided for me that this thing is over because i did not get anything back, they reached out for me to keep me interested.
    I start to thing that you can, while courtship is on, not take a lot of what they say at face value, a lot of it is regulating the distance and screening, some of it is being cautious because of ne-polr.

    Also, i do think, that without a clear sign of "leave me alone" confronting them and being direct can be a good thing. So maybe just ask her why she does not want to meet with you again, tell her that you really liked it and are interested. She may not give you any clear information at all but she will be assured of your feelings and when she cares about you she at least has a perspective of your interests she can't really deny.

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    a two horned unicorn renegade Heretic 007's Avatar
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    Goes from taco->vegan? (Seva, that is what duckduckgo told). Plausible missing link for "calling" her fat. Body issues I assume.
    Measuring you right now

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Background:

    I first met the above ESI when I saw her working in the yard across the street. (She owns a lawn service company.) I went over to talk to her and after goofing around for about 45 minutes, she suggested going out for “a burger and beer but no sex”. I thought, WTF? But invited her out. She said she was busy for a month or two, but she’d let me know.

    In the next two years, we’d sometimes talk when she was working across the street. Sometimes these conversations would last an hour and I found myself really liking her. She seemed to like me, too, but said that I talk too much. She said that a couple times.

    She eventually found time to go out, and we got some takeout and headed to a dock on a river in a park. We talked for six hours, then went back to my place, where we talked for another two hours, and then she left. And then she refused to go out with me again. I think she likes me (maybe so much it scares her) but she is super-Avoidant. Which I wish were not the case, but I’m not going to change a lifetime of training before the sun grows dim. She is who she is.

    A couple weeks ago, a package was delivered to my house in the rain, but I was in another state and so called her (because she sometimes works in the neighborhood) to see if she would pick up the package so it wouldn’t get soaked, and she happily agreed. (I later picked it up from her customer across the street.)

    Today I saw her across the street, so I decided to thank her personally for being willing to save my Fedex package from the rain. She saw me as I crossed the street and I called out “Hi, (her name here)!”
    She stopped what she was doing and her body tensed up. I stopped my approach on the tree lawn.

    ”Thanks for being willing to take my package out of the rain last week.”

    ”You are welcome.”

    The microseconds stretched on and I said nothing. I started to turn away.

    ”Thanks for keeping it short”, she said.

    ”Thanks for keeping it short?”, I thought? WTF. ESI’s, masters of layered meanings.

    I extended my arms out like glider wings and caught the updrafts back into the street.
    I will simplify things:

    Her: You talk too much (said multiple times)
    You: talks for 8 hours straight when she agrees to go out with you
    Her: Does not go out with you again. Thanks you for not talking her ear off when you thanked her.

    Conclusion: You talked too much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    I will simplify things:

    Her: You talk too much (said multiple times)
    You: talks for 8 hours straight when she agrees to go out with you
    Her: Does not go out with you again. Thanks you for not talking her ear off when you thanked her.

    Conclusion: You talked too much.
    Hi, @squark.
    For the record, she did plenty of the talking. I found out tons about her family, her friends, her employees, her customers, her daily problems, her problems with past lovers, her car’s weird noises, and her concerns about the future.
    She showed me a picture of her ideal guy (a guy married to a friend of hers) and he was a clear ILI. I hope she gets a chance to try life with one of these guys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heretic 007 View Post
    Goes from taco->vegan? (Seva, that is what duckduckgo told). Plausible missing link for "calling" her fat. Body issues I assume.
    Lots of women have issues, body-related or not. The ESI was never fat, but when I saw her yesterday, she had lost ten or so pounds. But her weight was never a problem for me.

    When I met my first GF in a factory when I was 25, I had a degree in Astrophysics and she was 22 with a HS education. We fell deeply, amazingly in love, but eventually broke up. She was LSI and went on to get a PhD and became a math professor in a college in Georgia. But her status was never a problem for me.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 10-29-2019 at 02:37 PM.

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    I wasn't there so idk. In my experiences with Te leads, well, I start zoning out after awhile as they talk and talk. They don't usually notice.

    Ever watch a stage show where the performer is interacting with the audience, asking them questions, bringing some on stage and allowing them to say a little about themselves? That's how it can feel talking to some extroverts. They're leading the conversation where they want it to go, and you might be a participant, but it's not your show.

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    Socionics is a spook ashlesha's Avatar
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    I don't know how much you actually talked or whatever, @Adam Strange, but I had a hard time parsing your long & detailed post for a reason behind her actions and @squark seemed to have found the pertinent aspects and gotten to it. Ti ftw

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    they don't talk

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    I wasn't there so idk. In my experiences with Te leads, well, I start zoning out after awhile as they talk and talk. They don't usually notice.

    Ever watch a stage show where the performer is interacting with the audience, asking them questions, bringing some on stage and allowing them to say a little about themselves? That's how it can feel talking to some extroverts. They're leading the conversation where they want it to go, and you might be a participant, but it's not your show.
    @squark, I can easily see what you mean. I have similar problems with Ti-leads. My favorite sister is LII and we typically limit our conversations to ten minutes or so.

    With both of my LSI GF’s, we mostly interacted through doing things together. We had a really hard time planning, and we didn’t discuss philosophy or culture at all.

    I work with several LII’s who are incredibly smart, and even when we are discussing the details of business projects, one hour is everyone’s maximum exposure limit.

    On the other hand, I’m working with a male ESI and he can’t seem to get enough of me. We’ve had three hour meetings followed by two hour lunches. And on my end, we can go on and on until we’ve completely covered everything.

    ”vindicates Socionics”
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 10-29-2019 at 03:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    I don't know how much you actually talked or whatever, @Adam Strange, but I had a hard time parsing your long & detailed post for a reason behind her actions and @squark seemed to have found the pertinent aspects and gotten to it. Ti ftw
    Maybe you're SEI and Ti mobilizing?
    Does absolutely nothing, then dies.

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    Socionics is a spook ashlesha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaDoodoo View Post
    Maybe you're SEI and Ti mobilizing?
    Maybe! Convince me :>

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    *sweats*
    Can't I just plant a seed?
    Does absolutely nothing, then dies.

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    Although this was a result of an ESI-LIE conversation, this post could equally well be placed in the “stages of Duality” thread.
    Every Monday for work, I and a male ESI (along with many others) have been meeting for 2-3 hours to discuss progress on a project to turn cars into autonomous vehicles.

    At first, the ESI seemed pretty stand-offish, but as the weeks went by, he and I found that our working styles meshed very well. He is looking for someone to effortlessly lead the project and rally the troops, and I need someone competent who can cover the practical matters.

    After about ten meetings, I would say that he and I have started to look forward to spending time together at these meetings. In other words, we are Dualizing.

    Yesterday, while their guys were in the vehicle assembly area setting up the test hardware that our team designed, I took him aside and asked him about his previous job in remote sensing, since my company has an unrelated project of detecting fires from high altitudes.

    Now, normally, I keep a shield between me and the work, so that I can maintain objectivity and can disengage if things go pear-shaped, and this fire control project is no exception. It is just another project that may or may not be profitable.
    But as he and I were standing there, talking about spectral radiance and photon budgets, I found myself falling into the Real.

    Not the removed and objectified world of “just another job”, but the world where things actually matter. To me. Personally. And I realized that a veil had been lifted, and I want that kind of connection.
    I can easily see how Duals become more productive when working together.

    Damn. It’s too bad I’m not gay. Lol.

    So last night I talked to my female LIE friend and asked her how long she has been working with a female ESI? She said, “Sixteen years.”
    ”And has the relationship gone downhill at all during that time?”, I asked.
    ”Nope. We get along great. We’re friends, really.”

    OK. Damn. Duality or GTFO.

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    ​Fi leads, particularly, are the consumate holistic listeners from the standpoint that when they are listening, they are doing so intently with their full attention and whole brain. ESIs listen intently but briefly, because Se prompts them towards action. Se subtypes are more likely to tell you that you talk too much, especially after they "get your point." Lol But that can be good because they want to get things done. Fi subtypes are more inclined to let us chatter away (though they are slower to "move"). And yes, LIEs can talk too damn much but our duals tend not to be entirely put off by this--it’s necessary to have someone we inherently respect tell us to STFU when necessary. Lol

    Ti types, god love em, tend to be the worst listeners. They easily detach and retreat into their minds to assess the logic, veracity, accuracy, and relevance of incoming data--it's not personal, just how their brains work. But they are the best to rattle by insisting that they repeat back to you something you've said, especially if you've been talking at length. Lol It makes sense why Fe would appeal to them, because it's more about "communicating" emotional states rather than lengthy fact based rationales.
    Last edited by Alonzo; 11-12-2019 at 04:36 PM.

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