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Thread: ESI/LIE Conversations

  1. #601
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    Quote Originally Posted by diamondhearts View Post
    Yeah, she does seem insecure doesn't she? I felt that too when reading. A tinge of sadness or disappointment. Like as if she's not up to your tastes and standards because you like younger women. It feels bittersweet. Or maybe I'm just reading too much into things haha

    You seem to me to have good intentions despite what other's say.

    You look for self assuredness but is that because you, yourself lack assuredness in your self/identity and the direction you wish to go in life?

    I know in victim/aggressor relationships the victim admires their aggressor for those very same qualities.
    Yes, I think that's about right, @diamondhearts.

  2. #602
    Psychology BSc and statistics MSc Armitage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
    The short answers are yes and yes, the long one is that you turned something emotionally difficult for her about you. You focused on that the situation made you feel bad and how you could solve this for yourself, while ignoring that she must feel far worse, because she actually lost her dog.
    What is worse, however, is that you immediately propose to replace her dog by another, even though she is still full-blown mourning her loss of Outlaw, as she mentioned herself that the pain is still very present. Pets and people are no items that you can replace, Adam.



    She reasoned after a while that your comment to replace her lost dog was not intentionally offensive, but something you said in all naive earnest, because you lack tact and are poorly socialized.



    And with this rude joke you clearly crossed the social event horizon, because it showed that you are not just socially clueless, but consciously insensitive too by turning the serious topic of her sorrow into a crass joke. In her mind you went from oblivious, yet well-intentioned fellow to rude dick in just one move. In all honesty, this is probably why she broke contact with you in the first place.





    I can imagine that after the whiny comments she deems you a little immature and this perception of you was only reinforced in her mind by your desire to date young women. She may subconsciously believe you to be stuck in adolescence given your behaviours, hence she advises you to pick up where you left, namely by serial dating like adolescents do, in order to get out of this life stage and move on.

    I know that I'm being direct with you, but I know that you like direct, clear answers more than thinly veiled socially polite vagueries, because from the former one can learn, but from the latter not.




    Ah, your lesbian ESI-Se Friend tends to disappear too for periods only to return later like my straight ESI Friend does?
    @Adam Strange, I have made some amendments to the latter half of this post, which might be worth your time to read.

  3. #603
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
    @Adam Strange, I have made some amendments to the latter half of this post, which might be worth your time to read.
    @Armitage, yes, the lesbian ESI-Se tends to vanish for months at a time, only to return and pick up where we were before, as if no time had passed. Truthfully, these absences have been due to her school schedule, and she moved across the country for a few years, but then moved back. I get the impression that when she’s around, she likes me a lot, and when she’s gone, she doesn’t think of me at all. She’s kind of SEE-like in that regard.

    However, every ESI that I have dated has taken long breaks (weeks) between dates that last almost the entire day. I assume that it takes them many hours to get tired of me, and then many days to process the experience. Maybe this is an Introverted Aggressor characteristic, or maybe it’s an ESI e6 thing where they just do not trust what they experience and need time to process it.

    I once asked an ESI how she learned about people. I was thinking of explaining Socionics to her and was considering which approach to teaching I should take. Should I use video examples of the types, or written descriptions, or a spreadsheet of inter-type relationships, or little stories about each type, or something else?
    She replied, simply, “History”, and I immediately saw that all my teaching methods would be useless. She meets people, then spends a lot of time thinking about them. Are they good or bad? And that’s about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @Armitage, yes, the lesbian ESI-Se tends to vanish for months at a time, only to return and pick up where we were before, as if no time had passed. Truthfully, these absences have been due to her school schedule, and she moved across the country for a few years, but then moved back. I get the impression that when she’s around, she likes me a lot, and when she’s gone, she doesn’t think of me at all. She’s kind of SEE-like in that regard.

    However, every ESI that I have dated has taken long breaks (weeks) between dates that last almost the entire day. I assume that it takes them many hours to get tired of me, and then many days to process the experience. Maybe this is an Introverted Aggressor characteristic, or maybe it’s an ESI e6 thing where they just do not trust what they experience and need time to process it.

    I once asked an ESI how she learned about people. I was thinking of explaining Socionics to her and was considering which approach to teaching I should take. Should I use video examples of the types, or written descriptions, or a spreadsheet of inter-type relationships, or little stories about each type, or something else?
    She replied, simply, “History”, and I immediately saw that all my teaching methods would be useless. She meets people, then spends a lot of time thinking about them. Are they good or bad? And that’s about it.
    Idk about that, it makes me wonder.
    I'm no ESI but spending that much time with people, up to 8 hours, has happened to me, it was more like I couldn't break the immediate bond, assert healthy boundaries...
    I ended up feeling nauseated and dizzy, it made me not want to see the person again because it took a toll on my wellbeing and need for space. Then it happened again and I couldn't bare to be around those people after a while.
    As you can see, I picked "has happened to me" as if I didn't have a choice in the matter. It's like I got lost.
    I don't mean to say it's like that for everyone, just maybe find some ESI's and ask them about how it feels, what they think about it.

  5. #605
    Psychology BSc and statistics MSc Armitage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @Armitage, yes, the lesbian ESI-Se tends to vanish for months at a time, only to return and pick up where we were before, as if no time had passed. Truthfully, these absences have been due to her school schedule, and she moved across the country for a few years, but then moved back. I get the impression that when she’s around, she likes me a lot, and when she’s gone, she doesn’t think of me at all. She’s kind of SEE-like in that regard.
    This bothers me a lot about my ESI-Se 6w7 Friend. I totally understand it when he has exams to prepare for that he's absent for a week or two. But currently it's summer vacation, he explicitly told me that he wouldn't have much to do once he returns to his Family in Deutschland, because some of his high school Friends are still working full-time, others have a summer job in between their study, and yet others are on holiday themselves. He only leaves for vacation with his Parents. He told me that he would change his Gym schedule to only train a few muscle groups a day, so that he wouldn't have to take rest days and could hit the Gym every day, so that he has something to do. I sent him a couple of messages over the past fortnight, but am yet awaiting a response. Actually, I stopped waiting for a reply. I know that he doesn't like to text message or (video) call, because he prefers real life interaction and doing activities together, but when he's here in the Netherlands he would never let me wait this long. My bet is that he will all of a sudden reply to my messages again at the start of the new academic year, once he has returned to the Netherlands.

    I'm not a dog, who will happily wag its tail once it master returns after two months of having bound his dog to a tree and ignoring it, only because he was on holiday. I have been actively pondering lately if I want to react in a frustrated manner when he eventually messages me upon his return or that I would simply state my disappointment to him to then agree to meet up again at the first possible opportunity. But typing this out right now, I realize that I am very disappointed in him and won't let this slide easily, even though I appreciate our interactions much. If he only cares to message me when it benefits him, because he has otherwise only one other person to undertake activities with in the Netherlands, I won't let myself get used like that. I'll stand up for myself, especially since next month will be my birthday, which I told him about, hence ignoring me for two months straight would be a double whammy. This feels just the same as with that ESI scouting friend I had, who also dropped me the moment he saw his old high school friends and Gym friends, even though they weren't there for him when he needed them.

    I have other Friends who are present for me and who I currently cannot provide much attention, because I was hanging out almost every week with the ESI-Se 6w7, but I think that I shall change that, if he truly ignores me for 1/6th of the year. Funnily, he had previously complained himself about a girl he dated who had ignored his messages for two months, because "people who care don't do that, so it's her problem." It seems time for me to put up a mirror for him, because I won't let myself get used like a doormat.

    Sometimes I wonder where the emotionally mature ESIs are at, and then I realize that they already saturated their friends circle a long time ago and are never to be seen with anyone else basically. They tend to be close minded when it comes down to opening up to strangers and giving them a chance inside their fold.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    However, every ESI that I have dated has taken long breaks (weeks) between dates that last almost the entire day. I assume that it takes them many hours to get tired of me, and then many days to process the experience. Maybe this is an Introverted Aggressor characteristic, or maybe it’s an ESI e6 thing where they just do not trust what they experience and need time to process it.
    They just need a whole lot of me time. It's hard for us to grasp, but they thrive on time spend alone to passively reflect on themselves and how to better themselves (FiSe) to attain their (Te) goals. They believe that if they perfect themselves that this will automatically mean that they will achieve their goals, but they fail to make a concrete, specific plan that will lead them from A to B (TeNi). Their approach is too generalistic to lead to success instead they end up only working on their character flaws (Fi-), as they perceive them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I once asked an ESI how she learned about people. I was thinking of explaining Socionics to her and was considering which approach to teaching I should take. Should I use video examples of the types, or written descriptions, or a spreadsheet of inter-type relationships, or little stories about each type, or something else?
    She replied, simply, “History”, and I immediately saw that all my teaching methods would be useless. She meets people, then spends a lot of time thinking about them. Are they good or bad? And that’s about it.
    Indeed, they feel no need to learn about a convoluted Ti system to classify, categorize, and analyse people with, because this feels hopelessly artificial, calculating, and inauthentic to them. They also don't need to learn of such a system, because their Fi on average outperforms any Ti social system that we learn about. They do not realize, however, that not everyone is so superb at classifying people as reliable or not and that some, like us, need to actively reflect on it to see the pattern (Ni).
    I noticed that ESIs take a lot on face value. As they focus on the concrete actions (Se) of people and collate this into a pattern (Ni), they completely omit to consider people's motivations for their actions (Ne). They believe that actions can be objectively judged on being right or wrong, because the motivations of people seem nebulous to them. One ESI nurse knew her EIE coworker to be extremely dramatic based on her hostile actions and she correctly classified this coworker as a bad person, but it took me to explain to her that the EIE feels threatened by the ESI, because she cannot manipulate, coerce, co-opt, or control her. This intrinsically scares the EIE, because the ESI is impervious to the EIE's guile, which the EIE prides herself in being her greatest strength. Instead of trying to better understand the ESI, the unhealthy EIE instead villifies her, gossipping about the ESI being a weird, while putting on a thinly veiled fake smile whenever she interacts with the ESI. The EIE does her utmost best to ostracize the ESI, because anyone the EIE cannot control is in the unhealthy EIE's Beta mindset a potential threat to her carefully constructed cult of personality. The ESI is undaunted by it, because she just continues to do her own thing and knows that she has skills and expertise that the EIE needs, but that the EIE has nothing to offer the ESI.
    Because the ESI believed that the EIE just thought of her as weird instead of as the potential threat that the EIE actually perceives her as, the ESI didn't realize before that the EIE is actively slandering her good name until I explained so. Forewarned is fore-armed.

    A smaller example is how I observed how the tour guides of the parliament and senate that the ESI-Se 6w7 and I visited were an ESE-Fe and SLI, respectively. I explained to him how they both shared an appreciation of societal values, tradition, and history, which is what motivates them to volunteer for so many years as tour guides of our democratic institutions. They differed, however, in that she was actively trying to foster harmony and set a mood by sharing anecdotal experiences herself of her husband having been a parliamentarian, while he stated more the plain facts and awaited questions and interactions from the visitors. As an extrovert she took the initiative in setting the tone and made it very enjoyable. She also informed the other tour guide that we would be delayed slightly, because I had deemed it a waste to interrupt her fun tour when it took a bit longer.

    The SLI, on the other hand, passed all the facts in short time. I already anticipated that there was more to tell about parliament than the senate, but the SLI at the senate stated the facts so succinctly that we finished a quarter of an hour early even. I tried to extend the tour a bit by asking some questions, as did another visitor, but those lengthened the tour by a few minutes at most. The tour guide did give me a nice film tip of a classic that I shall watch: "Mr. Smith goes to Washington" I'm not surprised that a SLI is all about the classics, haha.

    He was a good guy, because he really wanted to treat us as guests at our democratic institutions. When the lights were off in the first room, he attempted to communicate with the guards downstairs to turn them on, but they didn't hear so. In the end it was me who discovered a small control panel on the side of the wall with which to turn them on. The next room was also dark, but there was no touch screen panel present. The SLI called the phonenumber he had received in case of problems. The person who answered explained how this number was only to be used for emergencies and tried to rebuff the tour guide, but the SLI berated the security guards for not having things in order again (Te). He firmly told them that this is not how one treats guests, that it is not proper decorum (Si).
    I was surprised to see a SLI use Se and beat whatever Beta ST answered the call over the head with it. It really shows that SLIs are competent at using Se when push comes to stove, but that they rather don't do so unless provoked. After the phonecall ended the tour guide returned to his calmer, librarian like self, apologizing to us for this inconvenience and ensuring us that he had taken care of the problem for us.

    All around both tours were very fun and interesting. We wrote them a complimentary electronic mail to send them our thanks for the interesting tours. Over lunch I discussed with my friend an abridged version of my motivational analysis of the guides. He replied that he hadn't looked into their character much. His labelling didn't go beyond "very kind lady" and "fine guy". His labels were feelings that he felt with them (Fi), whilst I had analysed in my mind what made them tick (Ne).
    Last edited by Armitage; 07-19-2022 at 02:43 PM.

  6. #606
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreymagine View Post
    Wholeheartedly agree with this. But I'd like to add: Even without the sorrowful/serious context, this kind of joke isn't a good one to make, @Adam Strange. I can't imagine that any woman is gonna find humor in you implying, even jokingly, that a girlfriend being able to "talk back" is a negative. And drawing any sort of parallel between a woman and dog is generally something to avoid lol.

    At best, a woman won't be bothered by such a joke but she also won't find it funny. At worst, she takes such a joke as a sign of sexism that's manifesting through humor. (I'm very, very reluctant to speak for women in general, but I feel confident that what I'm saying is likely true in 99% of cases.)
    I once told a guy that if he kept talking about women the way he did, he'd never find a gf, then he told me his girlfriends all found him funny. Some women laugh to keep things light but stay away.
    He believed he was a "nice guy that finish last" and that kept him from seeing he was acting like quite a dick.

    It's odd how believing you're nice and respectful can lead to disrecpectful acts and unkind words, as if the kindness of the core overwrites all hurt caused externally.

  7. #607
    twiggewed dewusional entitwed snowfwake VewyScawwyNawcissist's Avatar
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    for the joke specifically the timing may have been bad, but if he used the joke to mock the sexist sentiment its not bad, if he makes it clear what he means.
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  8. #608
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    The 27 year old ESI-Se woman who has helped me in redecorating my house called me and said she had some time next month available if I had any more work for her.

    I told her that there remains a lot to be done that needs her particular talent, and the question I have is not whether I need her, but can I afford her? Because I’m temporarily broke because my cash flow is not always even. I expect to have money next month but I can’t promise that.

    She said she’d be happy to work for me in her window of opportunity and I could pay her later because, she felt, I was good for the money.

    She said that what she didn’t want to do was to show up and work at busy work, where me paying her would prevent me from buying some hardware for the house.

    Lol. She’s so Fi.

    I told her that I didn’t think in terms of her labor displacing a custom dining room set. I thought of it in terms of a special talent that I couldn’t get anywhere else, and I was going to use it when I could. I can buy a dining room set anytime.

    I reminded her that when she was throwing out everything that had been chosen by my ex-wife and I was saying “What if I need those old towels in the future?”, she had dismissed my concerns by telling me that we live in a world of abundance and I could get new towels.*

    I told her that I could always find the money to pay her, and I’d get a dining room set later. It’s not a question of one or the other; it’s what is the most efficient way to use resources? I can have both items, because making money is easy for me.

    She replied “Well, IT’S NOT EASY FOR ME!”

    Lol. After ten years of knowing her, she’s finally sharing her deepest concerns.


    I sometimes try to put myself in other people’s shoes and try to see the world the way that they might see it.
    If I were an Fi-dom, all of my relationships would be based on how I FELT about other people, and how they felt about me.
    Furthermore, I’d be unable to see ways to make money.

    Terrifying. This girl needs a hand. But then, so do I.

    *

    I honestly don’t think she lives in a world of abundance. She’s incredibly frugal, and just has a talent for looking like a million dollars while being completely broke.
    No, instead I think that she’s incredibly good at influencing people through knowing their values, and she knew that I would believe an argument that we live in a world of abundance (we do, we do), and she could then rid the house of my ex-wife’s influence.
    This turned out very well in the end, but I have to be more aware that I’m dealing with someone who outmatches me in her ability to get what she wants.

    Thank god we’re Duals and she probably won’t abuse that power.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 07-24-2022 at 04:04 PM.

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    I spent a few hours yesterday working with a male ESI at his house (he's working from home) and it was interesting to note the contrasts and the similarities between us.

    His house looks like an architectural showroom, while mine looks like a Detroit crack house. (Hey, my house is being renovated, but still.....I asked him for the name of the company which did the brickwork in his front walk.) I try to imagine what my house could look like, and never in my imagination could I imagine living in a house that looks as beautiful as his. He's divorced now and it's obvious that his family had money, but it was a very nice, very well-maintained house, in any case. My ESI-Se interior decorator has told me that when she's done, I'm going to have to hire a cleaning service, because I don't clean anything.
    So he and I are opposites in this area.

    Where we are similar is that he had a bunch of optical equipment in his (finished, looking like a lab) basement, but he wasn't expert at using it. He had a TeleVue 101 refractor (one of the best models) in a corner, and an Optical Guidance Systems RC 16 in storage. It turns out that his father, who owned a company, was an amateur astronomer with means. Small world.

    We went out to get something to eat after working, and we were seated at the restaurant in a booth next to a table of middle-aged Fe-valuing women. They were laughing and yelling and having a publicly great time affirming each other's feelings, and when I looked at my ESI friend, he had this expression on his face like he was standing in a gale from their forceful Fe.

    I told him he had a beautiful house, and I just hope that the ESI-Se interior decorator who is helping me with mine can accomplish a fraction of what he has done. He asked me if I thought there was a chance that she'd date me, and I said that she's a lesbian, so basically No.
    "However", I continued, "I think she likes me. She told me a month ago that she was so glad that I'd seen her artwork on display in the library. That's how we met. I tracked her down with the intention of buying it."
    My friend thought about that for a second, and said "That's so great of her. She was saying that she likes you, without coming right out and putting pressure on the relationship by stating it explicitly."

    Yes, I thought. Fi vs Fe. It's what I like.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 07-28-2022 at 04:01 PM.

  10. #610
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I spent a few hours yesterday working with a male ESI at his house (he's working from home) and it was interesting to note the contrasts and the similarities between us.

    His house looks like an architectural showroom, while mine looks like a Detroit crack house. (Hey, my house is being renovated, but still.....I asked him for the name of the company which did the brickwork in his front walk.) I try to imagine what my house could look like, and never in my imagination could I imagine living in a house that looks as beautiful as his. He's divorced now and it's obvious that his family had money, but it was a very nice, very well-maintained house, in any case. My ESI-Se interior decorator has told me that when she's done, I'm going to have to hire a cleaning service, because I don't clean anything.
    So he and I are opposites in this area.

    Where we are similar is that he had a bunch of optical equipment in his (finished, looking like a lab) basement, but he wasn't expert at using it. He had a TeleVue 101 refractor (one of the best models) in a corner, and an Optical Guidance Systems RC 16 in storage. It turns out that his father, who owned a company, was an amateur astronomer with means. Small world.

    We went out to get something to eat after working, and we were seated at the restaurant in a booth next to a table of middle-aged Fe-valuing women. They were laughing and yelling and having a publicly great time affirming each other's feelings, and when I looked at my ESI friend, he had this expression on his face like he was standing in a gale from their forceful Fe.

    I told him he had a beautiful house, and I just hope that the ESI-Se interior decorator who is helping me with mine can accomplish a fraction of what he has done. He asked me if I thought there was a chance that she'd date me, and I said that she's a lesbian, so basically No.
    "However", I continued, "I think she likes me. She told me a month ago that she was so glad that I'd seen her artwork on display in the library. That's how we met. I tracked her down with the intention of buying it."
    My friend thought about that for a second, and said "That's so great of her. She was saying that she likes you, without coming right out and putting pressure on the relationship by stating it explicitly."

    Yes, I thought. Fi vs Fe. It's what I like.
    In my experience, Fi is more likely to just outright say it. Fi Base tends to be blunt, direct. This is partially cultural as well; a Dutch ESI, for instance, will be more blunt than a Japanese ESI. Culturally, the Dutch are very blunt, and the Japanese are very polite. Fe tends to be less direct and hint at it more, though, in my experience. More in line with "social norms."

    I would not read too much into what the decorator said. It probably means exactly what she said: she's glad she met you (which yes, does imply she likes you, but is not indication she likes you romantically).

    EDIT:
    My ESI friend is romantically interested in me. She outright told me that she has liked me since day 1. I was in a relationship at the time, so I told her I was already serious about someone. She respected it wholly and moved on, that was that. She just does not beat around the bush about how she feels. Fi is more subtle in its outward expression (less animated), but states how they feel in an informative manner. Statements such as, "I like you" or "I'm glad I met you," are more Fi: direct, outright, informing. (Very compatible with people who are dense about picking up on those signals without being outright told.)

    On a side note, I've reached a point where I think being with another ESI would be somewhat boring. Too similar.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Lotus View Post
    In my experience, Fi is more likely to just outright say it. Fi Base tends to be blunt, direct. This is partially cultural as well; a Dutch ESI, for instance, will be more blunt than a Japanese ESI. Culturally, the Dutch are very blunt, and the Japanese are very polite. Fe tends to be less direct and hint at it more, though, in my experience. More in line with "social norms."

    I would not read too much into what the decorator said. It probably means exactly what she said: she's glad she met you (which yes, does imply she likes you, but is not indication she likes you romantically).

    EDIT:
    My ESI friend is romantically interested in me. She outright told me that she has liked me since day 1. I was in a relationship at the time, so I told her I was already serious about someone. She respected it wholly and moved on, that was that. She just does not beat around the bush about how she feels. Fi is more subtle in its outward expression (less animated), but states how they feel in an informative manner. Statements such as, "I like you" or "I'm glad I met you," are more Fi: direct, outright, informing. (Very compatible with people who are dense about picking up on those signals without being outright told.)

    On a side note, I've reached a point where I think being with another ESI would be somewhat boring. Too similar.
    I think bluntness could come from Se or enn type as well. The way Fi behave may depend on the relationship, like if the Fi like you, when they give you their opinion about your work or something, they would talk to you in a lighter, more acceptable way even if you, in fact are doing bad at your work. And when they hate you they became harsher... kind of

    Fe may not so direct, but they have their own way mocking you/being sarcastic/ turn the group again you...

  12. #612
    Ari Lady Lioness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renna View Post
    I think bluntness could come from Se or enn type as well. The way Fi behave may depend on the relationship, like if the Fi like you, when they give you their opinion about your work or something, they would talk to you in a lighter, more acceptable way even if you, in fact are doing bad at your work. And when they hate you they became harsher... kind of

    Fe may not so direct, but they have their own way mocking you/being sarcastic/ turn the group again you...
    Yeah, that is actually true also, in some cases. If the Fi base (or perhaps just ESI?) decides you need to hear it like it is, though, they will be very direct whether they like you or not. It's a tough love approach.


    sᴏᴄɪᴏɴɪᴄs
    ESI-SE (CREATIVE)


    ᴀᴛᴛɪᴛᴜᴅɪɴᴀʟ ᴘsʏᴄʜᴇ
    EVFL


    ᴇɴɴᴇᴀsᴄᴀᴍ
    8w9 ᔆˣ/ᔆᵒ

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    ARIES

    What's your confirmation bias?

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    LIE: Yep, I’m running 18 miles tomorrow.
    ESI: Oh, I did that intellectually today… in finishing the writing for this research proposal.
    LIE: And the crazy thing is, we signed up for these things! We chose our suffering!
    ESI: Oh, my brain is in citing author/year mode, but I can’t remember right now what year that book (that LIE is referring to- The subtle art of not giving a f*ck) came out

    i forget the rest but such a smooth back and forth, understanding of shared valued Se and Ni

  14. #614
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    Ok, this isn’t a verbatim conversation between an ESI and an LIE, but this is a good place to put this post.

    I live in a Delta house because that’s what my Delta parents had, and when I was growing up, that’s what I thought a house should look like. It’s a white colonial with hardwood floors, a real fireplace where you can burn real trees, solid wood doors, built-in shelves, windows with muntins and wooden shutters, molded glass doorknobs, plaster walls, etc. Solid and conservative. Very, very Delta.

    I have an ESI interior decorator who is converting the house to something more to her (and hopefully, my) liking. That means she is imposing Gamma taste throughout the entire house.

    To any LIE who might be considering doing something like this, I have some advice.

    Don’t do it. It is astoundingly expensive. This is not to say, don’t have a Gamma house. No. Definitely do have a Gamma house. But don’t convert a random house to Gamma.

    Just tell your (hopefully) ESI S.O. that she should just go out and find the house she wants. Then buy it. It will be much, much cheaper in the long run, and if you are actually an LIE, you won’t particularly care about the details that she really, really cares about. Si is not your hill to die on. Just let her make those decisions.

  15. #615
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    The ESI interior decorator is looking online for a desk for me.

    ESI-Se: “I love this one. The top is this beautiful wood and looks amazing.”

    LIE is not a fan of wood, especially since he’s been using a floating green glass desktop and likes it. “What else have they got?”

    ESI-Se: “Nothing that looks like that. I love that desktop.”
    But the ESI humors me and keeps looking for 45 minutes.

    LIE finally says: “This is not efficient. We’re burning through too much time (LIE means “money”). Let’s get the one you liked. I can take the top off and replace it with the present glass desktop. That way, the new desktop gets recycled.”

    ESI-Se: “Recycled?”

    LIE: “Yes. I know someone I can give it to.”

    ESI-Se gets a concerned and disappointed look on her face. “Someone? Who?”

    LIE: “You.”

    ESI-Se, surprised, says nervously: “Oh! I thought you meant someone, as in someone else, and I wondered who they were.”

    LIE: “No, if you like that, you can have it. It doesn’t change the overall price, and I still get all the features that I want.”


    ESIs are said to hate Ne, and I think that one of the ways that manifests is that they don't like potential changes and they hate competition. Any kind of competition. They hate and fear Ne, the Intuition of Infinite Alternatives, which is probably good for their alley-cat Duals because the ESI steers the LIE away from energy-dissipating side ventures.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 08-22-2022 at 10:29 PM.

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    Many people periodically experience depressive thoughts because their life is very boring, and every day the same thing has been happening for several years. Getting rid of depressive thoughts will help to travel and communicate with interesting people. When I worked as a receptionist in a restaurant, I felt depressed all the time. I especially didn't like my boss's attitude to me. He constantly insulted me, and he never liked the results of my work. I decided to quit my job permanently after I was injured at work due to my boss. I did not receive any compensation for my injuries, so I decided to learn how to get compensation through the courts. I learned a lot about it, and I got good compensation.
    Last edited by Maarklar; 09-05-2022 at 09:10 PM.

  17. #617
    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    I’m replacing the doors and a window in my house, so I called a company to give me a quote and I called the ESI-Se interior decorator to be there so she could make all of the aesthetic decisions about the products.

    We three met in the dining room of my house, where I introduced the ESI to the rep and explained to him that she had the final say in the purchasing decisions. The rep looked at her (a 27 year old single female) and then at me (a hundred year old single man) and without too much of a pause, showed us some of the products his company offered. They were enormously expensive, and the ESI instantly got her back up for this reason. She said to him that she could buy a door at Home Depot for 1/10 the price that he was asking.

    The rep looked at me to see what my reaction was, but I was being carefully neutral. I’d already told him where I stand.
    Failing to get support from me to disregard her opinions, he said that he understood that the products were expensive, especially since he was a family man and had three kids, so he knew that you don’t just spend money for no reason. However, he assured us that the product quality was very good and that everyone who ever bought his company’s products has been extremely pleased with them.

    I could just feel the ESI digging in her heels, but I want to get this moving so I asked him for trim options and for a quote. For the trim options, he’d show me the catalog and then I’d look at the ESI and she’d make the decisions, but would ask me if I was in agreement with her choices before she made a final decision.

    The rep mentioned, out of the blue, that in his experience, a lot of married couples did what we were doing.
    Lol.
    It wasn’t the first time that a stranger assumed, simply by the way the ESI and I interact, that we’re married. How they feel about that assumption, though, is where you see the liberals split from the conservatives.

    Anyway, I signed the contract for the products, with the reservation that we can change the purchase order in any way withing the next week. The rep relaxed once I signed, although he shouldn’t have, because the ESI was making other plans. It’s interesting to know what a person is thinking, even when they say nothing. She was wearing a COVID mask, but inside her head, I know she was going No No No No No No No.

    With business concluded, he sat back in his chair at the dining room table and asked, “How did you two meet?”

    We hadn’t turned on the lights during our business dealings, and the corners of the room were getting dark. The late afternoon sun was streaming in through the windows, illuminating the motes of dust floating in the air between us. She looked at me as if to say “Go ahead”, so I did.

    I folded my hands. “I was halfway through my life and my marriage was ending. I felt like I had lost my way somehow. My wife and son were gone, and when you lose the people in your life whom you love, you start to question who you are.

    “I’m an engineer, which means that I can tell you how anything in the world is put together, but I don’t know how I, myself, feel. So I started collecting art.

    “Art is a very strange thing. It can give names to the nameless feelings that you have. It can make those feelings concrete and real. By choosing works of art which spoke to me, I was discovering who I was.

    “I happened to be in a library one day when they were exhibiting the works of about thirty artists, and I thought to myself, most of these are mediocre, but two are ok, and I really, really like this one piece.
    “I asked the librarian who the artist was, and I was then able to contact her to tell her that I wanted to buy her artwork.”

    I looked at the ESI. “She said it wasn’t for sale.”

    “But she said she’d take a commission to make another, different work of art, and so we agreed to meet in person to discuss what it was I had in mind. That’s how we met. I liked her art before I ever met her.”
    “I hope that answer wasn’t too long.”

    The rep said No, he’d enjoyed hearing it.

    He then asked the ESI if she was in school, and she said she was in graduate school, studying social work in order to help the disadvantaged in society.

    I said to the rep, “And I design weapons. As you can see, she and I are nothing alike.”

    The rep burst into laughter at this. I don’t know why. What I said was true; we’re nothing alike.

    The ESI hopped up and left the room, saying she’d promised to call her girlfriend.

    The rep and I shook hands and he left, just before she returned to tell me that we’re going to look for a different door.

  18. #618

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    Idk, I've seen alot of fat LSEs.

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    ESI - C and evil LIE:



  20. #620
    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    I called my ex-wife to find out how she buys bus tickets, and the conversation somehow got around to how I was throwing out a lot of my old junk.
    When we lived together, she told me all the time to throw out useless junk, but I just blew her off.

    However, the ESI-Se interior decorator that I hired to renovate my house also told me to get rid of my old junk, and I did it immediately without thinking twice.

    My son actually told me that he's happy that I'm working with the ESI, because she can get me to do the things that he's been telling me to do for years and I've ignored him, too.

    So, Duals, at least ESI-LIE Duals, listen to each other.

    I was having a conversation with a window salesman and the ESI-Se was there to make the final decision on which windows I buy, and after the deal was done, he sat back and asked how the two of us met. Lol.

    Man, Duality just swamps everything else.

    Anyway, I told him the "met cute" story, and the ESI said that she was going to graduate school to learn how to help those people in society who were not lucky in choosing their parents, and she said that when she graduates, she's going to start looking for a job. What kind of job, she didn't know.

    OK, so I was astounded. I thought she had this planned out better. She's going to graduate soon and she hasn't lined up three or four jobs yet? WTF?

    So she helps me get stuff done right now, the stuff right in front of me that I normally ignore, and I should be helping her get her future lined up so every day doesn't look like a another series of emergencies which distract her from long-term success. But she never mentioned her lack of future plans, so how could I know?

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    Thumbs down dozens of pages of misinformation

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    ___
    you are SLE and this is obvious to anyone who understands even a little bit of socionics.
    change your TIM or stop spreading misinformation.
    Last edited by diya001; 09-30-2022 at 12:12 PM.

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