ESI/LIE Conversations

[Armitage]

The short answers are yes and yes, the long one is that you turned something emotionally difficult for her about you. You focused on that the situation made you feel bad and how you could solve this for yourself, while ignoring that she must feel far worse, because she actually lost her dog.
What is worse, however, is that you immediately propose to replace her dog by another, even though she is still full-blown mourning her loss of Outlaw, as she mentioned herself that the pain is still very present. Pets and people are no items that you can replace, Adam.



She reasoned after a while that your comment to replace her lost dog was not intentionally offensive, but something you said in all naive earnest, because you lack tact and are poorly socialized.



And with this rude joke you clearly crossed the social event horizon, because it showed that you are not just socially clueless, but consciously insensitive too by turning the serious topic of her sorrow into a crass joke. In her mind you went from oblivious, yet well-intentioned fellow to rude dick in just one move. In all honesty, this is probably why she broke contact with you in the first place.





I can imagine that after the whiny comments she deems you a little immature and this perception of you was only reinforced in her mind by your desire to date young women. She may subconsciously believe you to be stuck in adolescence given your behaviours, hence she advises you to pick up where you left, namely by serial dating like adolescents do, in order to get out of this life stage and move on.

I know that I'm being direct with you, but I know that you like direct, clear answers more than thinly veiled socially polite vagueries, because from the former one can learn, but from the latter not.




Ah, your lesbian ESI-Se Friend tends to disappear too for periods only to return later like my straight ESI Friend does?

@Adam Strange, I have made some amendments to the latter half of this post, which might be worth your time to read.

[Adam Strange]

@Adam Strange, I have made some amendments to the latter half of this post, which might be worth your time to read.

@Armitage, yes, the lesbian ESI-Se tends to vanish for months at a time, only to return and pick up where we were before, as if no time had passed. Truthfully, these absences have been due to her school schedule, and she moved across the country for a few years, but then moved back. I get the impression that when she’s around, she likes me a lot, and when she’s gone, she doesn’t think of me at all. She’s kind of SEE-like in that regard.

However, every ESI that I have dated has taken long breaks (weeks) between dates that last almost the entire day. I assume that it takes them many hours to get tired of me, and then many days to process the experience. Maybe this is an Introverted Aggressor characteristic, or maybe it’s an ESI e6 thing where they just do not trust what they experience and need time to process it.

I once asked an ESI how she learned about people. I was thinking of explaining Socionics to her and was considering which approach to teaching I should take. Should I use video examples of the types, or written descriptions, or a spreadsheet of inter-type relationships, or little stories about each type, or something else?
She replied, simply, “History”, and I immediately saw that all my teaching methods would be useless. She meets people, then spends a lot of time thinking about them. Are they good or bad? And that’s about it.

[adage]

@Armitage, yes, the lesbian ESI-Se tends to vanish for months at a time, only to return and pick up where we were before, as if no time had passed. Truthfully, these absences have been due to her school schedule, and she moved across the country for a few years, but then moved back. I get the impression that when she’s around, she likes me a lot, and when she’s gone, she doesn’t think of me at all. She’s kind of SEE-like in that regard.

However, every ESI that I have dated has taken long breaks (weeks) between dates that last almost the entire day. I assume that it takes them many hours to get tired of me, and then many days to process the experience. Maybe this is an Introverted Aggressor characteristic, or maybe it’s an ESI e6 thing where they just do not trust what they experience and need time to process it.

I once asked an ESI how she learned about people. I was thinking of explaining Socionics to her and was considering which approach to teaching I should take. Should I use video examples of the types, or written descriptions, or a spreadsheet of inter-type relationships, or little stories about each type, or something else?
She replied, simply, “History”, and I immediately saw that all my teaching methods would be useless. She meets people, then spends a lot of time thinking about them. Are they good or bad? And that’s about it.

Idk about that, it makes me wonder.
I'm no ESI but spending that much time with people, up to 8 hours, has happened to me, it was more like I couldn't break the immediate bond, assert healthy boundaries...
I ended up feeling nauseated and dizzy, it made me not want to see the person again because it took a toll on my wellbeing and need for space. Then it happened again and I couldn't bare to be around those people after a while.
As you can see, I picked "has happened to me" as if I didn't have a choice in the matter. It's like I got lost.
I don't mean to say it's like that for everyone, just maybe find some ESI's and ask them about how it feels, what they think about it.

[Armitage]

@Armitage, yes, the lesbian ESI-Se tends to vanish for months at a time, only to return and pick up where we were before, as if no time had passed. Truthfully, these absences have been due to her school schedule, and she moved across the country for a few years, but then moved back. I get the impression that when she’s around, she likes me a lot, and when she’s gone, she doesn’t think of me at all. She’s kind of SEE-like in that regard.

This bothers me a lot about my ESI-Se 6w7 Friend. I totally understand it when he has exams to prepare for that he's absent for a week or two. But currently it's summer vacation, he explicitly told me that he wouldn't have much to do once he returns to his Family in Deutschland, because some of his high school Friends are still working full-time, others have a summer job in between their study, and yet others are on holiday themselves. He only leaves for vacation with his Parents. He told me that he would change his Gym schedule to only train a few muscle groups a day, so that he wouldn't have to take rest days and could hit the Gym every day, so that he has something to do. I sent him a couple of messages over the past fortnight, but am yet awaiting a response. Actually, I stopped waiting for a reply. I know that he doesn't like to text message or (video) call, because he prefers real life interaction and doing activities together, but when he's here in the Netherlands he would never let me wait this long. My bet is that he will all of a sudden reply to my messages again at the start of the new academic year, once he has returned to the Netherlands.

I'm not a dog, who will happily wag its tail once it master returns after two months of having bound his dog to a tree and ignoring it, only because he was on holiday. I have been actively pondering lately if I want to react in a frustrated manner when he eventually messages me upon his return or that I would simply state my disappointment to him to then agree to meet up again at the first possible opportunity. But typing this out right now, I realize that I am very disappointed in him and won't let this slide easily, even though I appreciate our interactions much. If he only cares to message me when it benefits him, because he has otherwise only one other person to undertake activities with in the Netherlands, I won't let myself get used like that. I'll stand up for myself, especially since next month will be my birthday, which I told him about, hence ignoring me for two months straight would be a double whammy. This feels just the same as with that ESI scouting friend I had, who also dropped me the moment he saw his old high school friends and Gym friends, even though they weren't there for him when he needed them.

I have other Friends who are present for me and who I currently cannot provide much attention, because I was hanging out almost every week with the ESI-Se 6w7, but I think that I shall change that, if he truly ignores me for 1/6th of the year. Funnily, he had previously complained himself about a girl he dated who had ignored his messages for two months, because "people who care don't do that, so it's her problem." It seems time for me to put up a mirror for him, because I won't let myself get used like a doormat.

Sometimes I wonder where the emotionally mature ESIs are at, and then I realize that they already saturated their friends circle a long time ago and are never to be seen with anyone else basically. They tend to be close minded when it comes down to opening up to strangers and giving them a chance inside their fold.

However, every ESI that I have dated has taken long breaks (weeks) between dates that last almost the entire day. I assume that it takes them many hours to get tired of me, and then many days to process the experience. Maybe this is an Introverted Aggressor characteristic, or maybe it’s an ESI e6 thing where they just do not trust what they experience and need time to process it.

They just need a whole lot of me time. It's hard for us to grasp, but they thrive on time spend alone to passively reflect on themselves and how to better themselves (FiSe) to attain their (Te) goals. They believe that if they perfect themselves that this will automatically mean that they will achieve their goals, but they fail to make a concrete, specific plan that will lead them from A to B (TeNi). Their approach is too generalistic to lead to success instead they end up only working on their character flaws (Fi-), as they perceive them.

I once asked an ESI how she learned about people. I was thinking of explaining Socionics to her and was considering which approach to teaching I should take. Should I use video examples of the types, or written descriptions, or a spreadsheet of inter-type relationships, or little stories about each type, or something else?
She replied, simply, “History”, and I immediately saw that all my teaching methods would be useless. She meets people, then spends a lot of time thinking about them. Are they good or bad? And that’s about it.

Indeed, they feel no need to learn about a convoluted Ti system to classify, categorize, and analyse people with, because this feels hopelessly artificial, calculating, and inauthentic to them. They also don't need to learn of such a system, because their Fi on average outperforms any Ti social system that we learn about. They do not realize, however, that not everyone is so superb at classifying people as reliable or not and that some, like us, need to actively reflect on it to see the pattern (Ni).
I noticed that ESIs take a lot on face value. As they focus on the concrete actions (Se) of people and collate this into a pattern (Ni), they completely omit to consider people's motivations for their actions (Ne). They believe that actions can be objectively judged on being right or wrong, because the motivations of people seem nebulous to them. One ESI nurse knew her EIE coworker to be extremely dramatic based on her hostile actions and she correctly classified this coworker as a bad person, but it took me to explain to her that the EIE feels threatened by the ESI, because she cannot manipulate, coerce, co-opt, or control her. This intrinsically scares the EIE, because the ESI is impervious to the EIE's guile, which the EIE prides herself in being her greatest strength. Instead of trying to better understand the ESI, the unhealthy EIE instead villifies her, gossipping about the ESI being a weird, while putting on a thinly veiled fake smile whenever she interacts with the ESI. The EIE does her utmost best to ostracize the ESI, because anyone the EIE cannot control is in the unhealthy EIE's Beta mindset a potential threat to her carefully constructed cult of personality. The ESI is undaunted by it, because she just continues to do her own thing and knows that she has skills and expertise that the EIE needs, but that the EIE has nothing to offer the ESI.
Because the ESI believed that the EIE just thought of her as weird instead of as the potential threat that the EIE actually perceives her as, the ESI didn't realize before that the EIE is actively slandering her good name until I explained so. Forewarned is fore-armed.

A smaller example is how I observed how the tour guides of the parliament and senate that the ESI-Se 6w7 and I visited were an ESE-Fe and SLI, respectively. I explained to him how they both shared an appreciation of societal values, tradition, and history, which is what motivates them to volunteer for so many years as tour guides of our democratic institutions. They differed, however, in that she was actively trying to foster harmony and set a mood by sharing anecdotal experiences herself of her husband having been a parliamentarian, while he stated more the plain facts and awaited questions and interactions from the visitors. As an extrovert she took the initiative in setting the tone and made it very enjoyable. She also informed the other tour guide that we would be delayed slightly, because I had deemed it a waste to interrupt her fun tour when it took a bit longer.

The SLI, on the other hand, passed all the facts in short time. I already anticipated that there was more to tell about parliament than the senate, but the SLI at the senate stated the facts so succinctly that we finished a quarter of an hour early even. I tried to extend the tour a bit by asking some questions, as did another visitor, but those lengthened the tour by a few minutes at most. The tour guide did give me a nice film tip of a classic that I shall watch: "Mr. Smith goes to Washington" I'm not surprised that a SLI is all about the classics, haha.

He was a good guy, because he really wanted to treat us as guests at our democratic institutions. When the lights were off in the first room, he attempted to communicate with the guards downstairs to turn them on, but they didn't hear so. In the end it was me who discovered a small control panel on the side of the wall with which to turn them on. The next room was also dark, but there was no touch screen panel present. The SLI called the phonenumber he had received in case of problems. The person who answered explained how this number was only to be used for emergencies and tried to rebuff the tour guide, but the SLI berated the security guards for not having things in order again (Te). He firmly told them that this is not how one treats guests, that it is not proper decorum (Si).
I was surprised to see a SLI use Se and beat whatever Beta ST answered the call over the head with it. It really shows that SLIs are competent at using Se when push comes to stove, but that they rather don't do so unless provoked. After the phonecall ended the tour guide returned to his calmer, librarian like self, apologizing to us for this inconvenience and ensuring us that he had taken care of the problem for us.

All around both tours were very fun and interesting. We wrote them a complimentary electronic mail to send them our thanks for the interesting tours. Over lunch I discussed with my friend an abridged version of my motivational analysis of the guides. He replied that he hadn't looked into their character much. His labelling didn't go beyond "very kind lady" and "fine guy". His labels were feelings that he felt with them (Fi), whilst I had analysed in my mind what made them tick (Ne).

[adage]

Wholeheartedly agree with this. But I'd like to add: Even without the sorrowful/serious context, this kind of joke isn't a good one to make, @Adam Strange. I can't imagine that any woman is gonna find humor in you implying, even jokingly, that a girlfriend being able to "talk back" is a negative. And drawing any sort of parallel between a woman and dog is generally something to avoid lol.

At best, a woman won't be bothered by such a joke but she also won't find it funny. At worst, she takes such a joke as a sign of sexism that's manifesting through humor. (I'm very, very reluctant to speak for women in general, but I feel confident that what I'm saying is likely true in 99% of cases.)

I once told a guy that if he kept talking about women the way he did, he'd never find a gf, then he told me his girlfriends all found him funny. Some women laugh to keep things light but stay away.
He believed he was a "nice guy that finish last" and that kept him from seeing he was acting like quite a dick.

It's odd how believing you're nice and respectful can lead to disrecpectful acts and unkind words, as if the kindness of the core overwrites all hurt caused externally.

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

for the joke specifically the timing may have been bad, but if he used the joke to mock the sexist sentiment its not bad, if he makes it clear what he means.

[Adam Strange]

The 27 year old ESI-Se woman who has helped me in redecorating my house called me and said she had some time next month available if I had any more work for her.

I told her that there remains a lot to be done that needs her particular talent, and the question I have is not whether I need her, but can I afford her? Because I’m temporarily broke because my cash flow is not always even. I expect to have money next month but I can’t promise that.

She said she’d be happy to work for me in her window of opportunity and I could pay her later because, she felt, I was good for the money.

She said that what she didn’t want to do was to show up and work at busy work, where me paying her would prevent me from buying some hardware for the house.

Lol. She’s so Fi.

I told her that I didn’t think in terms of her labor displacing a custom dining room set. I thought of it in terms of a special talent that I couldn’t get anywhere else, and I was going to use it when I could. I can buy a dining room set anytime.

I reminded her that when she was throwing out everything that had been chosen by my ex-wife and I was saying “What if I need those old towels in the future?”, she had dismissed my concerns by telling me that we live in a world of abundance and I could get new towels.*

I told her that I could always find the money to pay her, and I’d get a dining room set later. It’s not a question of one or the other; it’s what is the most efficient way to use resources? I can have both items, because making money is easy for me.

She replied “Well, IT’S NOT EASY FOR ME!”

Lol. After ten years of knowing her, she’s finally sharing her deepest concerns.


I sometimes try to put myself in other people’s shoes and try to see the world the way that they might see it.
If I were an Fi-dom, all of my relationships would be based on how I FELT about other people, and how they felt about me.
Furthermore, I’d be unable to see ways to make money.

Terrifying. This girl needs a hand. But then, so do I.

*

I honestly don’t think she lives in a world of abundance. She’s incredibly frugal, and just has a talent for looking like a million dollars while being completely broke.
No, instead I think that she’s incredibly good at influencing people through knowing their values, and she knew that I would believe an argument that we live in a world of abundance (we do, we do), and she could then rid the house of my ex-wife’s influence.
This turned out very well in the end, but I have to be more aware that I’m dealing with someone who outmatches me in her ability to get what she wants.

Thank god we’re Duals and she probably won’t abuse that power.

[Adam Strange]

I spent a few hours yesterday working with a male ESI at his house (he's working from home) and it was interesting to note the contrasts and the similarities between us.

His house looks like an architectural showroom, while mine looks like a Detroit crack house. (Hey, my house is being renovated, but still.....I asked him for the name of the company which did the brickwork in his front walk.) I try to imagine what my house could look like, and never in my imagination could I imagine living in a house that looks as beautiful as his. He's divorced now and it's obvious that his family had money, but it was a very nice, very well-maintained house, in any case. My ESI-Se interior decorator has told me that when she's done, I'm going to have to hire a cleaning service, because I don't clean anything.
So he and I are opposites in this area.

Where we are similar is that he had a bunch of optical equipment in his (finished, looking like a lab) basement, but he wasn't expert at using it. He had a TeleVue 101 refractor (one of the best models) in a corner, and an Optical Guidance Systems RC 16 in storage. It turns out that his father, who owned a company, was an amateur astronomer with means. Small world.

We went out to get something to eat after working, and we were seated at the restaurant in a booth next to a table of middle-aged Fe-valuing women. They were laughing and yelling and having a publicly great time affirming each other's feelings, and when I looked at my ESI friend, he had this expression on his face like he was standing in a gale from their forceful Fe.

I told him he had a beautiful house, and I just hope that the ESI-Se interior decorator who is helping me with mine can accomplish a fraction of what he has done. He asked me if I thought there was a chance that she'd date me, and I said that she's a lesbian, so basically No.
"However", I continued, "I think she likes me. She told me a month ago that she was so glad that I'd seen her artwork on display in the library. That's how we met. I tracked her down with the intention of buying it."
My friend thought about that for a second, and said "That's so great of her. She was saying that she likes you, without coming right out and putting pressure on the relationship by stating it explicitly."

Yes, I thought. Fi vs Fe. It's what I like.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

I spent a few hours yesterday working with a male ESI at his house (he's working from home) and it was interesting to note the contrasts and the similarities between us.

His house looks like an architectural showroom, while mine looks like a Detroit crack house. (Hey, my house is being renovated, but still.....I asked him for the name of the company which did the brickwork in his front walk.) I try to imagine what my house could look like, and never in my imagination could I imagine living in a house that looks as beautiful as his. He's divorced now and it's obvious that his family had money, but it was a very nice, very well-maintained house, in any case. My ESI-Se interior decorator has told me that when she's done, I'm going to have to hire a cleaning service, because I don't clean anything.
So he and I are opposites in this area.

Where we are similar is that he had a bunch of optical equipment in his (finished, looking like a lab) basement, but he wasn't expert at using it. He had a TeleVue 101 refractor (one of the best models) in a corner, and an Optical Guidance Systems RC 16 in storage. It turns out that his father, who owned a company, was an amateur astronomer with means. Small world.

We went out to get something to eat after working, and we were seated at the restaurant in a booth next to a table of middle-aged Fe-valuing women. They were laughing and yelling and having a publicly great time affirming each other's feelings, and when I looked at my ESI friend, he had this expression on his face like he was standing in a gale from their forceful Fe.

I told him he had a beautiful house, and I just hope that the ESI-Se interior decorator who is helping me with mine can accomplish a fraction of what he has done. He asked me if I thought there was a chance that she'd date me, and I said that she's a lesbian, so basically No.
"However", I continued, "I think she likes me. She told me a month ago that she was so glad that I'd seen her artwork on display in the library. That's how we met. I tracked her down with the intention of buying it."
My friend thought about that for a second, and said "That's so great of her. She was saying that she likes you, without coming right out and putting pressure on the relationship by stating it explicitly."

Yes, I thought. Fi vs Fe. It's what I like.

In my experience, Fi is more likely to just outright say it. Fi Base tends to be blunt, direct. This is partially cultural as well; a Dutch ESI, for instance, will be more blunt than a Japanese ESI. Culturally, the Dutch are very blunt, and the Japanese are very polite. Fe tends to be less direct and hint at it more, though, in my experience. More in line with "social norms."

I would not read too much into what the decorator said. It probably means exactly what she said: she's glad she met you (which yes, does imply she likes you, but is not indication she likes you romantically).

EDIT:
My ESI friend is romantically interested in me. She outright told me that she has liked me since day 1. I was in a relationship at the time, so I told her I was already serious about someone. She respected it wholly and moved on, that was that. She just does not beat around the bush about how she feels. Fi is more subtle in its outward expression (less animated), but states how they feel in an informative manner. Statements such as, "I like you" or "I'm glad I met you," are more Fi: direct, outright, informing. (Very compatible with people who are dense about picking up on those signals without being outright told.)

On a side note, I've reached a point where I think being with another ESI would be somewhat boring. Too similar.

[Renna]

In my experience, Fi is more likely to just outright say it. Fi Base tends to be blunt, direct. This is partially cultural as well; a Dutch ESI, for instance, will be more blunt than a Japanese ESI. Culturally, the Dutch are very blunt, and the Japanese are very polite. Fe tends to be less direct and hint at it more, though, in my experience. More in line with "social norms."

I would not read too much into what the decorator said. It probably means exactly what she said: she's glad she met you (which yes, does imply she likes you, but is not indication she likes you romantically).

EDIT:
My ESI friend is romantically interested in me. She outright told me that she has liked me since day 1. I was in a relationship at the time, so I told her I was already serious about someone. She respected it wholly and moved on, that was that. She just does not beat around the bush about how she feels. Fi is more subtle in its outward expression (less animated), but states how they feel in an informative manner. Statements such as, "I like you" or "I'm glad I met you," are more Fi: direct, outright, informing. (Very compatible with people who are dense about picking up on those signals without being outright told.)

On a side note, I've reached a point where I think being with another ESI would be somewhat boring. Too similar.

I think bluntness could come from Se or enn type as well. The way Fi behave may depend on the relationship, like if the Fi like you, when they give you their opinion about your work or something, they would talk to you in a lighter, more acceptable way even if you, in fact are doing bad at your work. And when they hate you they became harsher... kind of

Fe may not so direct, but they have their own way mocking you/being sarcastic/ turn the group again you...

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

I think bluntness could come from Se or enn type as well. The way Fi behave may depend on the relationship, like if the Fi like you, when they give you their opinion about your work or something, they would talk to you in a lighter, more acceptable way even if you, in fact are doing bad at your work. And when they hate you they became harsher... kind of

Fe may not so direct, but they have their own way mocking you/being sarcastic/ turn the group again you...

Yeah, that is actually true also, in some cases. If the Fi base (or perhaps just ESI?) decides you need to hear it like it is, though, they will be very direct whether they like you or not. It's a tough love approach.

[spacious]

LIE: Yep, I’m running 18 miles tomorrow.
ESI: Oh, I did that intellectually today… in finishing the writing for this research proposal.
LIE: And the crazy thing is, we signed up for these things! We chose our suffering!
ESI: Oh, my brain is in citing author/year mode, but I can’t remember right now what year that book (that LIE is referring to- The subtle art of not giving a f*ck) came out

i forget the rest but such a smooth back and forth, understanding of shared valued Se and Ni

[Adam Strange]

Ok, this isn’t a verbatim conversation between an ESI and an LIE, but this is a good place to put this post.

I live in a Delta house because that’s what my Delta parents had, and when I was growing up, that’s what I thought a house should look like. It’s a white colonial with hardwood floors, a real fireplace where you can burn real trees, solid wood doors, built-in shelves, windows with muntins and wooden shutters, molded glass doorknobs, plaster walls, etc. Solid and conservative. Very, very Delta.

I have an ESI interior decorator who is converting the house to something more to her (and hopefully, my) liking. That means she is imposing Gamma taste throughout the entire house.

To any LIE who might be considering doing something like this, I have some advice.

Don’t do it. It is astoundingly expensive. This is not to say, don’t have a Gamma house. No. Definitely do have a Gamma house. But don’t convert a random house to Gamma.

Just tell your (hopefully) ESI S.O. that she should just go out and find the house she wants. Then buy it. It will be much, much cheaper in the long run, and if you are actually an LIE, you won’t particularly care about the details that she really, really cares about. Si is not your hill to die on. Just let her make those decisions.

[Adam Strange]

The ESI interior decorator is looking online for a desk for me.

ESI-Se: “I love this one. The top is this beautiful wood and looks amazing.”

LIE is not a fan of wood, especially since he’s been using a floating green glass desktop and likes it. “What else have they got?”

ESI-Se: “Nothing that looks like that. I love that desktop.”
But the ESI humors me and keeps looking for 45 minutes.

LIE finally says: “This is not efficient. We’re burning through too much time (LIE means “money”). Let’s get the one you liked. I can take the top off and replace it with the present glass desktop. That way, the new desktop gets recycled.”

ESI-Se: “Recycled?”

LIE: “Yes. I know someone I can give it to.”

ESI-Se gets a concerned and disappointed look on her face. “Someone? Who?”

LIE: “You.”

ESI-Se, surprised, says nervously: “Oh! I thought you meant someone, as in someone else, and I wondered who they were.”

LIE: “No, if you like that, you can have it. It doesn’t change the overall price, and I still get all the features that I want.”


ESIs are said to hate Ne, and I think that one of the ways that manifests is that they don't like potential changes and they hate competition. Any kind of competition. They hate and fear Ne, the Intuition of Infinite Alternatives, which is probably good for their alley-cat Duals because the ESI steers the LIE away from energy-dissipating side ventures.

[Maarklar]

Many people periodically experience depressive thoughts because their life is very boring, and every day the same thing has been happening for several years. Getting rid of depressive thoughts will help to travel and communicate with interesting people. When I worked as a receptionist in a restaurant, I felt depressed all the time. I especially didn't like my boss's attitude to me. He constantly insulted me, and he never liked the results of my work. I decided to quit my job permanently after I was injured at work due to my boss. I did not receive any compensation for my injuries, so I decided to learn how to get compensation through the courts. I learned a lot about it, and I got good compensation.

[Adam Strange]

I’m replacing the doors and a window in my house, so I called a company to give me a quote and I called the ESI-Se interior decorator to be there so she could make all of the aesthetic decisions about the products.

We three met in the dining room of my house, where I introduced the ESI to the rep and explained to him that she had the final say in the purchasing decisions. The rep looked at her (a 27 year old single female) and then at me (a hundred year old single man) and without too much of a pause, showed us some of the products his company offered. They were enormously expensive, and the ESI instantly got her back up for this reason. She said to him that she could buy a door at Home Depot for 1/10 the price that he was asking.

The rep looked at me to see what my reaction was, but I was being carefully neutral. I’d already told him where I stand.
Failing to get support from me to disregard her opinions, he said that he understood that the products were expensive, especially since he was a family man and had three kids, so he knew that you don’t just spend money for no reason. However, he assured us that the product quality was very good and that everyone who ever bought his company’s products has been extremely pleased with them.

I could just feel the ESI digging in her heels, but I want to get this moving so I asked him for trim options and for a quote. For the trim options, he’d show me the catalog and then I’d look at the ESI and she’d make the decisions, but would ask me if I was in agreement with her choices before she made a final decision.

The rep mentioned, out of the blue, that in his experience, a lot of married couples did what we were doing.
Lol.
It wasn’t the first time that a stranger assumed, simply by the way the ESI and I interact, that we’re married. How they feel about that assumption, though, is where you see the liberals split from the conservatives.

Anyway, I signed the contract for the products, with the reservation that we can change the purchase order in any way withing the next week. The rep relaxed once I signed, although he shouldn’t have, because the ESI was making other plans. It’s interesting to know what a person is thinking, even when they say nothing. She was wearing a COVID mask, but inside her head, I know she was going No No No No No No No.

With business concluded, he sat back in his chair at the dining room table and asked, “How did you two meet?”

We hadn’t turned on the lights during our business dealings, and the corners of the room were getting dark. The late afternoon sun was streaming in through the windows, illuminating the motes of dust floating in the air between us. She looked at me as if to say “Go ahead”, so I did.

I folded my hands. “I was halfway through my life and my marriage was ending. I felt like I had lost my way somehow. My wife and son were gone, and when you lose the people in your life whom you love, you start to question who you are.

“I’m an engineer, which means that I can tell you how anything in the world is put together, but I don’t know how I, myself, feel. So I started collecting art.

“Art is a very strange thing. It can give names to the nameless feelings that you have. It can make those feelings concrete and real. By choosing works of art which spoke to me, I was discovering who I was.

“I happened to be in a library one day when they were exhibiting the works of about thirty artists, and I thought to myself, most of these are mediocre, but two are ok, and I really, really like this one piece.
“I asked the librarian who the artist was, and I was then able to contact her to tell her that I wanted to buy her artwork.”

I looked at the ESI. “She said it wasn’t for sale.”

“But she said she’d take a commission to make another, different work of art, and so we agreed to meet in person to discuss what it was I had in mind. That’s how we met. I liked her art before I ever met her.”
“I hope that answer wasn’t too long.”

The rep said No, he’d enjoyed hearing it.

He then asked the ESI if she was in school, and she said she was in graduate school, studying social work in order to help the disadvantaged in society.

I said to the rep, “And I design weapons. As you can see, she and I are nothing alike.”

The rep burst into laughter at this. I don’t know why. What I said was true; we’re nothing alike.

The ESI hopped up and left the room, saying she’d promised to call her girlfriend.

The rep and I shook hands and he left, just before she returned to tell me that we’re going to look for a different door.

[Lord Pixel]

Idk, I've seen alot of fat LSEs.

[Renna]

ESI - C and evil LIE:

[Adam Strange]

I called my ex-wife to find out how she buys bus tickets, and the conversation somehow got around to how I was throwing out a lot of my old junk.
When we lived together, she told me all the time to throw out useless junk, but I just blew her off.

However, the ESI-Se interior decorator that I hired to renovate my house also told me to get rid of my old junk, and I did it immediately without thinking twice.

My son actually told me that he's happy that I'm working with the ESI, because she can get me to do the things that he's been telling me to do for years and I've ignored him, too.

So, Duals, at least ESI-LIE Duals, listen to each other.

I was having a conversation with a window salesman and the ESI-Se was there to make the final decision on which windows I buy, and after the deal was done, he sat back and asked how the two of us met. Lol.

Man, Duality just swamps everything else.

Anyway, I told him the "met cute" story, and the ESI said that she was going to graduate school to learn how to help those people in society who were not lucky in choosing their parents, and she said that when she graduates, she's going to start looking for a job. What kind of job, she didn't know.

OK, so I was astounded. I thought she had this planned out better. She's going to graduate soon and she hasn't lined up three or four jobs yet? WTF?

So she helps me get stuff done right now, the stuff right in front of me that I normally ignore, and I should be helping her get her future lined up so every day doesn't look like a another series of emergencies which distract her from long-term success. But she never mentioned her lack of future plans, so how could I know?

[diya001]

___

you are SLE and this is obvious to anyone who understands even a little bit of socionics.
change your TIM or stop spreading misinformation.

[Metaphor]

ESI-Se threatened by LIE-Ni:

[Elmira]

A conversation between a ESI(me), a LSI(my ex-best friend), and a LIE(my classmate) during chemistry class in high school

LSI: "Help me with the study guide. It's hard and I only finished a few questions."
ESI: "I don't really want to..." while not turning around from the solitaire game on my school laptop.
LSI: "Why not? To play that lame card game. You never want to help me. You always do this. Why can't you be a good friend and help me? This is easy for you."
ESI: "Fine." Gestures her to hand over her study guide and tediously begins teaching the things.
LSI: "Don't you mean {this}." *Points out minor mistake*
ESI: "Umm... Y-yeah that is what I meant."
*Corrects or questions me like a hundred times, I'm starting to feel like an idiot and question my comprehension of the class.*
LSI: "Sometimes I think you're smarter than me, but I don't think you know what you're doing."
ESI: "...", continues back to the study guide.
LSI: "When I do the equation, I do it like this. The one you're doing is wrong and complicated. You know what-"
LIE: "The way you're doing it gives the wrong answer." Casually glances away from his school laptop.
ESI: "..."
LSI: "No it doesn't. Look-"
LIE: "Yes, it does. Also, on the exam we're getting tested on our work, so if you use the wrong method, you're going to lose points."
LSI tries to argue back, but LIE returns back to his game of MINECRAFT. LSI angrily turns back to me.
LSI: "Ugh, can we just finish the study guide?"
ESI: "No." Goes back to my game of solitaire.

[spacious]

Do you have to work with him again? Those sound like pretty vague answers lol

Yay, I found the post from ~1.5 yrs ago that I was thinking of! . I didn't forget it, even though I didn't reply at the time, haha.

So, little update: I am working together again this semester with the ILI assistant professor as one of his PhD teaching assistants. Oo, la. I had pretttty mixed feelings about it and also came in with a TON of clarity about what I was looking for within the terms of the working relationship. I have also grown a lot in my self-advocacy skills since this time two years ago.

My observations so far: the dude responds REALLY well to when I take initiative, haha. He looked me in the eye last week and said "I really appreciate this" for something pretty small effort-wise that I did (I was determined to try to do it though--he'd indicated that he had the budget to hire a master's student to help us with grading and I'd been like, that would be great!, yes, please!, and then I heard zero follow-up about it and the semester had started, so at the end of the TA meeting after being a little on the fence about bringing it up earlier, I was like: "by the way, did you decide against hiring another grader? Because I could help with screening resumes and applications, I've done that kind of work before. Also I could see if the grader I worked with last semester would be available, she was great." Three days later, he was filing the paperwork to hire someone that that grader referred to us, who had actually taken the class as an undergraduate two years ago (grader I had in mind was already booked)--he LOVES the fact that this new person has taken the class before, because in my view, he injects a lot of himself/his own thoughts and larger ways of thinking into the course (he designed the course from scratch in 2017 and this is his sixth time teaching it).

Our other candidate, that I found, he referred to my advisor, who apparently also had budget to find a grader though hadn't taken initiative to find one, since the benefit of hiring one would go to the TA[s], not the professor directly--these professors don't grade. I think I can see the Yielding/Obstinate Reinin dichotomy between ILIs and me as an ESI now... it's veeeery clear to me that the ILIs I know defend their interests in a way that's distinct from how I do. I'm not saying I'm not selfish; it's that the dichotomy points to being generous with resources vs. interests--I believe it's that Yielding types are generous with interests, protective of resources, and Obstinate, the reverse (or inverse?). Pretty interesting stuff.)

Also, the other TAs were like 'um yes thank you for finding another grader, spacious, I was worried about not having enough help on the team.)

Also wanted to say that it's so clear to me how an ILI would work well with someone who has Ti Polr… when I brought up the hiring another grader thing, I was like, 'I dont know if it's unethical to ask someone we know about occupying the role without advertising the position more broadly, and he was like, 'Yeah there's a slight ethical concern there but trust me, no one is managing the infrastructure of this,' and he'd said previously,' the new Director of Graduate Studies hasn't figured out how to match instructors to the Masters students seeking grading positions', and thus, 'so we wouldn't want to lose out on the help because we were concerned about ethics.' Haha. I'm like, okay, that was a quick answer, haha [this actually isn't the best illustration of what I mean by he'd work well with someone with Ti Polr, but it's in that neighborhood, in my view)

Also, the quotes from him that I gave from him in the previous post ('that's insightful', 'one possible vision', blabla- he really HAS incorporated my suggestions, btw, and has truly improved the infrastructure of the class since last time I was involved) were just the little ways of speaking that stood out to me, which are generally easier for me to communicate than more like meaty content. I try to remind myself though that when I speak in rationalizations/generalizations/my versions of abstractions without giving examples, people can't really follow my meaning.

[Adam Strange]

I rented a house in Albuquerque for a few days to watch the recent annular solar eclipse with my ILI Lawyer buddy, his ESI wife, and their adult nephew, the latter whom I had not previously met in person.

I talked to the nephew when he arrived in his truck and helped him unpack his astrophotography gear. He and I got settled in the house the day before the eclipse, and I gradually felt that the gears of interaction with this guy were meshing effortlessly. I started to suspect that he was an ESI, so I asked him some questions about himself to see if he fit the profile.

What does he do for a living? Lawyer, looking to right wrongs and create justice. (ref Strat on ESI)
What else besides astronomy does he do for fun? Ham radio operator, where he speaks to people remotely all over the world. (I have another ESI buddy who is into recording radio waves bouncing off meteors in the upper atmosphere. Very similar to Ham radio.)
Does he play a stringed instrument? Yes, a guitar. (My HS buddy played a zither.)
Is he married? (Yes, with kids. No forthcoming description of his wife or kids. Whatever's going on there, he has no need to share it with the world.)

I talked about Socionics with him (my ILI lawyer buddy thinks I'm full of shit about this) and I said that I thought he might be a certain type, an ESI-Fi, and I described the type and he agreed that the description fit him. I told him that there was a type that best matched his own type, and the relationship was good for marriage, friendship, business, and just about any other kind of interpersonal interaction, and then I showed him the Youtube video "Freed from Desire" by Gala (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3l7fgvrEKM). I told him that the woman in that video was his best match type.

He watched the video and his eyes practically bugged out of his head. He was watching the woman in the video and he was like a man dying of thirst in the desert, who comes upon a pool of cool water in an oasis. Except his reaction was also tied up with sex, although he was trying to hide that part. He actually looks like the ESI in the video who is holding the pearl necklace.

He cleared his throat. "You say she's my Dual?"

"Yes. Her type is called LIE, and she's basically a man."

He looked at me with a long, slow look, wondering how much I knew about his fantasies. Hey, dude, I don't want to know. However, my other ESI-Fi buddy has a hunger fixation on Kate Beckinsale from the film "Underworld: Evolution" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCtm8L4PQt8).

"I'm a male version of that", I said.

"Huh", he said.

"It's a relationship good for friendship and business, too. Your type and mine are basically opposites, but we're good at different things."

The rest of the afternoon, he followed me around with a puppy-dog expression on his face. I had to keep him at a distance for the rest of the day.
One's first encounter with a Dual is a weird and transforming experience. Almost otherworldly. I remember when I first met my ESI-Fi buddy in high school. I was in love with that guy, although I refused to admit, even to myself, how much he meant to me.

A few hours later, I overheard him talking to his uncle, my ILI buddy.

"I thought he'd be warmer."

Well, dude, LIEs are not warm. Polite, yes, until they have to fire you or something, but not warm.

Here's a perfect example of a male ESI-Fi & female LIE-Te interaction. Kate Beckinsale on How to Get a Guy in the 1800's, from Vanity Fair:




This video is so perfect. It illustrates the CEO qualities of the female LIE (Why are you wasting my time?), and also perfectly illustrates the problems that the male ESI has, of being a sexual aggressor (of the hound dog variety) and simultaneously an introvert. I don't envy ESIs for this reason, but being an Extroverted Victim isn't a walk in the park, either.

[Adam Strange]

I was having a Discussion with my ESI-Se lesbian interior decorator of many years, which should have been about what color she planned to paint the walls, but somehow turned into a discussion of how I was a bad dad because I wasn't planning to give everything to my son in my will.
Because we're Duals and I'm more than a bit in like and love with her, I probably have overshared with someone who is technically hired to fix my home environment. But, really, she is my moral compass.

ESI: "You're not treating him right."

God, it's hard to listen to your Dual tell you that you're a bad person, but that they are still going to stick with you. You know they are right on both counts, and it's not entirely reassuring.

ESI: "He's trying very hard to be seen by you, to get you to respect and appreciate him, and here you are, giving your money to all of your old girl friends."

LIE: "I think they deserve it. It isn't easy, being my GF. Quite frankly, I'm grateful to them."

ESI: "No! You owe them nothing! They don't love you. They aren't your friends. And he's your SON!"

Here, I'm thinking that an ESI would make a great mother. Defends the kids like a Wolverine. She definitely would die on this hill. On the other hand, I'm the one who's being torn to shreds, and maybe rightfully. It's very confusing, because we're in a moral argument, and unlike her, I'm on uncertain ground.

LIE: "He's not exactly turned out the way that I had hoped."

ESI: "You can't judge a person's worth by what you want. What if my parents had told me that I couldn't marry a woman?"

My eyes drifted off. I know her parents. They are very respectable. "Then I'd think less of them. Because they would be condemning you for something that you can't do anything about."

One of my pet peeves is that many people discriminate in the workplace against people for reasons that those people can't control. Being Polish is different from repeatedly showing up late.

The ESI looked startled, as if she had never considered contractual equality to be an argument of any kind. I'm guessing she's running on pure morality here. Her thinking process is sooooo different from mine.



OK, I'm going to change my will. I don't think I'm wrong, but I do think she's more right.

[Sol]

ESI: "You can't judge a person's worth by what you want.

While to judge anything mainly by "what you want/like" (Fi) is the main what base Fi people do.
That "ESI" is doubtful to have valued Fi, not to say to have it as base.

Similarly as base Te prefer to make important evaluations by logical objectivity and usefulness. Even for emotions is evaluated how is it useful for them to be. Including for general emotional state in relations having those emotions.

[Finaplex]

While to judge anything mainly by "what you want/like" (Fi) is the main what base Fi people do.
That "ESI" is doubtful to have valued Fi, not to say to have it as base.

I think you missed the entire point of that sentence. ... She is not saying you can't judge a person on wants and dislikes, she is saying you can't use your own personal metrics of what you want in order to judge a person's innate worth. And given its a close father son relationship, it means to say that a son's worth is above and beyond your expectations, as hard as that is to understand sometimes and remember. Worth in the current English language is related to someone's spirit, soul, potential as a sovereign human being, ect.

Stick to fixing toasters, bud.

Similarly as base Te prefer to make important evaluations by logical objectivity and usefulness. Even for emotions is evaluated how is it useful for them to be. Including for general emotional state in relations having those emotions.

Are we talking about emotions, or are we talking about feelings? They are different things. Emotions come and go and are usually felt somehow by the body. Feelings are even less in control by the conscious mind.

[Expansion]

I think you missed the entire point of that sentence. ... She is not saying you can't judge a person on wants and dislikes, she is saying you can't use your own personal metrics of what you want in order to judge a person's innate worth. And given its a close father son relationship, it means to say that a son's worth is above and beyond your expectations, as hard as that is to understand sometimes and remember. Worth in the current English language is related to someone's spirit, soul, potential as a sovereign human being, ect.

Stick to fixing toasters, bud.


Are we talking about emotions, or are we talking about feelings? They are different things. Emotions come and go and are usually felt somehow by the body. Feelings are even less in control by the conscious mind.

[entjjtne]

Kate Beckinsale is most certainly not an LIE and probably an ESI or SEE.

There's very few women LIEs and even fewer in acting. Correlated to that, there's also practically no roles written for a woman LIE, since it's such a rare scenario and narrative.

[Metaphor]

I have been really searching for any example of LIE-ESI in anime, whether it's gay or not. But then I found this:

Two people on this conversation:
Shinji - LIE
Mika - ESI


And the most shocking part of this is that there were more happening beyond this episode preview. Mika wanted to protect Chisato from any trouble, but Shinji was lowkey threatening him, telling that she was "their daughter" and he even pressed him into the wall.

[Adam Strange]

My ESI interior decorator is buying a house in Ann Arbor with her LII/LSI (Ti-dom for sure) partner. She can do this at age 28 because I'm paying her what she's worth to me.

When she announced that she was expecting to close on December 20, she said that the house was amazingly expensive, but the bank still gave her the loan. She paused, then she added, softly, "They know I work for you."

I said, brusquely, "Yes, that's good. The income from your work here would allow the loan officer to lend you a lot more money, so you can get a better house."

I was thinking factually; strictly in terms of money and it's ramifications and nothing else, but the more I think about what, exactly, she said, the more I think that her statement came from a place where she thinks that her working for me should be kept a secret.

This is weird, on the face of it. My accountant sends her and the IRS all the required forms, so everything is perfectly legal. I like monetary records to be completely open and to balance to the penny. Maybe she has some convoluted Fi thing going on?

[theum nathair]

My ESI interior decorator is buying a house in Ann Arbor with her LII/LSI (Ti-dom for sure) partner. She can do this at age 28 because I'm paying her what she's worth to me.

When she announced that she was expecting to close on December 20, she said that the house was amazingly expensive, but the bank still gave her the loan. She paused, then she added, softly, "They know I work for you."

I said, brusquely, "Yes, that's good. The income from your work here would allow the loan officer to lend you a lot more money, so you can get a better house."

I was thinking factually; strictly in terms of money and it's ramifications and nothing else, but the more I think about what, exactly, she said, the more I think that her statement came from a place where she thinks that her working for me should be kept a secret.

This is weird, on the face of it. My accountant sends her and the IRS all the required forms, so everything is perfectly legal. I like monetary records to be completely open and to balance to the penny. Maybe she has some convoluted Fi thing going on?

You make Ann Arbour sound like a tiny mafia-run village in Sicily in the 1950s

I've been wondering awhile because my family are not wealthy, but does one very frequently need the services of an interior decorator? You speak of her as if you've had numerous mutually-beneficial transactions. But how many times can one redecorate one's house? Or do interior decorators offer the other thing too...

[FDG]

You make Ann Arbour sound like a tiny mafia-run village in Sicily in the 1950s

I've been wondering awhile because my family are not wealthy, but does one very frequently need the services of an interior decorator? You speak of her as if you've had numerous mutually-beneficial transactions. But how many times can one redecorate one's house? Or do interior decorators offer the other thing too...

If it's a big house you want to completely refurbish it's gonna take a long time for each room.

[Adam Strange]

If it's a big house you want to completely refurbish it's gonna take a long time for each room.

It is not a big house, but it is being completely renovated, from the basement to the attic, from the wall studs to the wall paint, from the landscaping and buried service lines to the bed sheets, and it is being paid for out of cash flow. No money is borrowed from the bank. You should try that some time. (No, you should never try that if you can avoid it. Borrow the money instead.) This is happening alongside cash demands from my life and my business, so it is very under-funded and is taking a huge amount of time. I can't (actually, don't want to) take too much money from my investments to do this work (I had to take $75k from Parker-Hannifin stock a month ago to cover a shortfall, and I regret it), and that is prolonging the job.

Let me just say here that the concept of borrowing money for present needs and paying it back slowly from increased profit is one of the most productive and socially-transforming things that humans have ever come up with, and it is just my particular misfortune that I couldn't do that for this job. I'd already started work in the house before I went to the bank, and the work destroyed the house as a saleable asset, so they refused to loan me money to do the rest of the work. My stupidity combined with bad timing.

You make Ann Arbour sound like a tiny mafia-run village in Sicily in the 1950s

Have you ever dealt with trade unions and city inspectors? Yes, a mafia-run village in Sicily in the 1950's. All trade work is so easy to do that they need unions to protect their jobs and to raise their wages. The city inspectors work both for the city and for themselves, because they get paid extra to revisit you for a failed inspection, and the city......the city will do anything to get money. Ann Arbor city council isn't so much the mafia, but rather a communist playground for high school political wanna-bees, but they have mafia-like powers to extract cash from land owners.

I've been wondering awhile because my family are not wealthy, but does one very frequently need the services of an interior decorator? You speak of her as if you've had numerous mutually-beneficial transactions. But how many times can one redecorate one's house? Or do interior decorators offer the other thing too...

I'm just going to redecorate this house once, although the ESI has changed her mind a few times, thankfully before things got too expensive.

I wish she offered more, but alas, no. Not a hint, not a breath, nothing, in all the years I've known her. She likes me because we are Duals. She might like me a lot because I like her a lot. Hell, I'm probably a bit in love with her, because she's the best ESI I've ever met. But she plays on the other ball team. She's no more straight than I am gay, and that's saying a lot.

[FDG]

It is not a big house, but it is being completely renovated, from the basement to the attic, from the wall studs to the wall paint, from the landscaping and buried service lines to the bed sheets, and it is being paid for out of cash flow. No money is borrowed from the bank. You should try that some time. (No, you should never try that if you can avoid it. Borrow the money instead.) This is happening alongside cash demands from my life and my business, so it is very under-funded and is taking a huge amount of time. I can't (actually, don't want to) take too much money from my investments to do this work (I had to take $75k from Parker-Hannifin stock a month ago to cover a shortfall, and I regret it), and that is prolonging the job.

Let me just say here that the concept of borrowing money for present needs and paying it back slowly from increased profit is one of the most productive and socially-transforming things that humans have ever come up with, and it is just my particular misfortune that I couldn't do that for this job. I'd already started work in the house before I went to the bank, and the work destroyed the house as a saleable asset, so they refused to loan me money to do the rest of the work. My stupidity combined with bad timing.



Have you ever dealt with trade unions and city inspectors? Yes, a mafia-run village in Sicily in the 1950's. All trade work is so easy to do that they need unions to protect their jobs and to raise their wages. The city inspectors work both for the city and for themselves, because they get paid extra to revisit you for a failed inspection, and the city......the city will do anything to get money. Ann Arbor city council isn't so much the mafia, but rather a communist playground for high school political wanna-bees, but they have mafia-like powers to extract cash from land owners.



I'm just going to redecorate this house once, although the ESI has changed her mind a few times, thankfully before things got too expensive.

I wish she offered more, but alas, no. Not a hint, not a breath, nothing, in all the years I've known her. She likes me because we are Duals. She might like me a lot because I like her a lot. Hell, I'm probably a bit in love with her, because she's the best ESI I've ever met. But she plays on the other ball team. She's no more straight than I am gay, and that's saying a lot.

What's the meaning of 'not big' for an american? Just wondering.
For an Italian anything above 300 sqm is big.

I seldom borrow so I know what you mean. But on the other hand, it gives you the power to do anything with your life without financial obligations and that's irrepleaceble for me.

Final word, what's the deal with Sicily. You would probably have an easier time there doing a refurbishment compared to the over regulated 'developed' first world.

[Adam Strange]

What's the meaning of 'not big' for an american? Just wondering.
For an Italian anything above 300 sqm is big.

I seldom borrow so I know what you mean. But on the other hand, it gives you the power to do anything with your life without financial obligations and that's irrepleaceble for me.

Final word, what's the deal with Sicily. You would probably have an easier time there doing a refurbishment compared to the over regulated 'developed' first world.

I didn't bring up Sicily. Perdite vixi did. I've never been to Italy, although I've been fairly close. And yes, Ann Arbor has ridiculous laws governing building.

My house is a bit over 110 square meters. I just did the calculations. Yes, it is quite small, but its estimated value is around half a million dollars, because of its location in the city. Property taxes on the land are over $16k/yr. I could have bought a bigger place in the country and paid less, but my location in the city is just too convenient. I can walk to restaurants, museums, clothing stores, and my ex could walk to work at the UM law school.
(I also own the house next door, with a similar property tax assessment. When it came up for sale, I bought it. It has appreciated faster than stocks, and my conclusion is, own both stocks and real estate.)

You have no idea how valuable it is to live in the city. Ann Arbor has a population of about 120,000 people, and every day, another 100,000 people drive into the city to work, and then drive out again to go home to an affordable house. The streets in and out of town are 1-2 hour parking lots from 6AM to 8:30AM, and again from 3:30PM to 5:30PM. When you sit in traffic for 2-3 hours every day, you start to think that paying extra for a home in the city is worth it.

In any case, house prices have almost nothing to do with the size or quality of the house, but rather depend entirely on how much money you can make by living at that location.

[FDG]

Well for 110 sqm you're just hiring the interior decorator for company. Nothing wrong with it, but you know identicals so sorry for you shes lesbian

16k per year is absurd, i think a mafia takeover would be cheaper

My wife just inherited a big property with a big garden, refurbishing will be a nightmare. But to be honest it'd have been better if the person was still alive. For example 300 sqm taxes are 1.5k euro a year in italy. How much can you make, depends, there's everything, a Walter for 500 euros a month a big manager for 1 mln year

[Adam Strange]

Well for 110 sqm you're just hiring the interior decorator for company. Nothing wrong with it, but you know identicals so sorry for you shes lesbian

16k per year is absurd, i think a mafia takeover would be cheaper

You are entirely correct, of course. I told her that if I had two wishes, they would be for her to be straight and me to be age 30. I don't need anything more than that, because that would seal the deal.
I do want her to stick around. Hell, I'd marry her just to keep her around. I don't care if she sleeps with women. But I'm pretty sure that she wouldn't go for that deal.

FDG, I really, really wish I had discovered Socionics when I was in my twenties. After age 30, all the Secures are gone and only the Anxious and Avoidant remain. I'm thinking that the only way I will find an ESI who is capable of being in a relationship is to attend their husband's funerals.

I actually own three properties here, and every one of them is taxed. With the taxes and insurance and heating and cooling and various odds and ends, I calculated that I have to earn $65k/yr before I get to start paying me to eat and put gas in the car. With what I'm paying them, the city should be kissing my ass, but instead I just get inspection notices and steady tax increases.

[FDG]

You are entirely correct, of course. I told her that if I had two wishes, they would be for her to be straight and me to be age 30. I don't need anything more than that, because that would seal the deal.
I do want her to stick around. Hell, I'd marry her just to keep her around. I don't care if she sleeps with women. But I'm pretty sure that she wouldn't go for that deal.

FDG, I really, really wish I had discovered Socionics when I was in my twenties. After age 30, all the Secures are gone and only the Anxious and Avoidant remain. I'm thinking that the only way I will find an ESI who is capable of being in a relationship is to attend their husband's funerals.

I actually own three properties here, and every one of them is taxed. With the taxes and insurance and heating and cooling and various odds and ends, I calculated that I have to earn $65k/yr before I get to start paying me to eat and put gas in the car.

Yeah i agree about the husband funeral. It's sad but i think you can do it.

Wtf is happening in the Us with taxes. I assumed you were the free world...

(Otoh i pay 50 percent income taxes)

[Adam Strange]

Yeah i agree about the husband funeral. It's sad but i think you can do it.

Wtf is happening in the Us with taxes. I assumed you were the free world...

The US has been going straight to hell ever since Reagan was elected. He reduced taxes on the rich and made blacks and the poor scapegoats for the prejudiced whites. This trend has only accelerated since then.

Despite my railing against city inspectors and unions, I think that the unions should be stronger and all billionaires should be taxed out of existence, because when a country has too much inequality in earnings and in wealth, that is an open door to slavery. It might not be called slavery, but there is no functional difference.

(Otoh i pay 50 percent income taxes)

OK, here is a perfect example. (Sent to your in box.)
The income tax laws in the US entirely favor the rich, and the richer you are, the less you pay.