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Thread: ESI/LIE Conversations

  1. #161
    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    A few years ago, I met an ESI-Se who was working on the lawn of the house across the street. She owns a lawn care company and was directing her employees in the proper use of chain saws. I went over to talk to her, and after ten or twenty minutes of me being me, she said that we should "go out for a burger and a beer but no sex" some time. I was floored at her directness, and agreed.
    I got her number and called her repeatedly and she finally agreed to go out. We had a great time and talked for eight hours without getting tired of each other, and then she refused to go out with me again.
    I've repeatedly asked her out, and she has repeatedly refused. Which sucks, because I like her. She's very similar to the ESI-Se that my ILI-Te buddy married.

    I recently got Gulenko's book about DCNH and read the descriptions of the ESI DCNH types. I'd call this woman a D type, given the fact that she owns her company. I'd also give the ESI wife of my ILI buddy a D designation, because she runs a part of the library system in their town.

    Gulenko said that the ESI D type rules the household and is a good provider for the family. This implies that the husband is not such a great provider, and I know a number of LIE's who don't actually make much money. I then recalled that, near the end of my date with the ESI-Se, when she and I had been talking in my house for hours, the subject of our respective levels of wealth came up (obliquely, very obliquely), and I frankly admitted that I had three houses to her one.
    That was strike one. She probably feels that she needs to control the home and the marriage, and she fears that she might not be able to do that with me.

    Then, I kept calling her for another date. This was strike two.
    She always refused. I've read conflicting things about ESI's. Some writers say that they are Aggressors and will ask a guy out and they hate it when a guy chases them. Others say that ESI's will never make the first move. The truth of the matter is that it probably depends on subtypes, or possibly DCNH, and I suspect that the ESI-Se or D-type is going to be the one who chases.
    To verify this, I called my ILI-Te buddy and asked him if he had asked his ESI-Se D-type wife out first, or if she was the one who suggested everything. He told me that she did the asking. He went on to say that he really hadn't had much experience with women prior to her (think, 40 year-old virgin), so he wasn't exactly aggressive.
    Lol. To say the least. Nor is he earning very much money. He gets a lot of money from his wealthy father, so her library income probably dominates the home finances. She probably picked up on that in an instant.

    When the ESI-Se and I were out on a date, she and I were talking about our ideas of a perfect mate. She showed me a picture of a (married) friend of hers. The guy was a dweebish ILI.
    In any case, it is clear to me that she wants to do the asking and her partner needs to be the passive one. Well, I'm not like that. So that is definitely strike two.

    Then, more recently, after I had resignedly placed her in the friend zone and was moving on to dating other women but was still thinking about her, she texted me out of the blue and started flirting. So I asked her out for a date again and again she refused. She said she only wants a business relationship with me.
    I'll chalk this up to her not seeing me as the guy she wants to get closer to, but not wishing to lose a potential business resource, either.
    Strike three. Game over.


    But this is good. I've learned something about myself and about ESI-Se D-types. I've learned that they probably won't be compatible with me.
    Damn, I'm glad that most people instinctively know what they want. I, myself, have to puzzle it out from clues.

    This also implies that, while I fit much of Gulenko's description of the LIE Normalizing type, I'm at heart a D-type myself.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 08-17-2020 at 01:30 PM.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    A few years ago, I met an ESI-Se who was working on the lawn of the house across the street. She owns a lawn care company and was directing her employees in the proper use of chain saws. I went over to talk to her, and after ten or twenty minutes of me being me, she said that we should "go out for a burger and a beer but no sex" some time. I was floored at her directness, and agreed.
    I got her number and called her repeatedly and she finally agreed to go out. We had a great time and talked for eight hours without getting tired of each other, and then she refused to go out with me again.
    I've repeatedly asked her out, and she has repeatedly refused. Which sucks, because I like her. She's very similar to the ESI-Se that my ILI-Te buddy married.

    I recently got Gulenko's book about DCNH and read the descriptions of the ESI DCNH types. I'd call this woman a D type, given the fact that she owns her company. I'd also give the ESI wife of my ILI buddy a D designation, because she runs a part of the library system in their town.

    Gulenko said that the ESI D type rules the household and is a good provider for the family. This implies that the husband is not such a great provider, and I know a number of LIE's who don't actually make much money. I then recalled that, near the end of my date with the ESI-Se, when she and I had been talking in my house for hours, the subject of our respective levels of wealth came up (obliquely, very obliquely), and I frankly admitted that I had three houses to her one.
    That was strike one. She probably feels that she needs to control the home and the marriage, and she fears that she might not be able to do that with me.

    Then, I kept calling her for another date. This was strike two.
    She always refused. I've read conflicting things about ESI's. Some writers say that they are Aggressors and will ask a guy out and they hate it when a guy chases them. Others say that ESI's will never make the first move. The truth of the matter is that it probably depends on subtypes, or possibly DCNH, and I suspect that the ESI-Se or D-type is going to be the one who chases.
    To verify this, I called my ILI-Te buddy and asked him if he had asked his ESI-Se D-type wife out first, or if she was the one who suggested everything. He told me that she did the asking. He went on to say that he really hadn't had much experience with women prior to her (think, 40 year-old virgin), so he wasn't exactly aggressive.
    Lol. To say the least. Nor is he earning very much money. He gets a lot of money from his wealthy father, so her library income probably dominates the home finances. She probably picked up on that in an instant.

    When the ESI-Se and I were out on a date, she and I were talking about our ideas of a perfect mate. She showed me a picture of a (married) friend of hers. The guy was a dweebish ILI.
    In any case, it is clear to me that she wants to do the asking and her partner needs to be the passive one. Well, I'm not like that. So that is definitely strike two.

    Then, more recently, after I had resignedly placed her in the friend zone and was moving on to dating other women but was still thinking about her, she texted me out of the blue and started flirting. So I asked her out for a date again and again she refused. She said she only wants a business relationship with me.
    I'll chalk this up to her not seeing me as the guy she wants to get closer to, but not wishing to lose a potential business resource, either.
    Strike three. Game over.


    But this is good. I've learned something about myself and about ESI-Se D-types. I've learned that they probably won't be compatible with me.
    Damn, I'm glad that most people instinctively know what they want. I, myself, have to puzzle it out from clues.

    This also implies that, while I fit much of Gulenko's description of the LIE Normalizing type, I'm at heart a D-type myself.
    Three houses would be good if you ever wanted some space. Please tell me though they aren't all in the same city. I feel like if you have multiple homes they should be in different regions.

  3. #163
    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    Three houses would be good if you ever wanted some space. Please tell me though they aren't all in the same city. I feel like if you have multiple homes they should be in different regions.
    They are not all in the same city.

    One is in the city of Ann Arbor, one is in the country about 20 miles north of town, in the woods near a lake where I can only see one neighbor from the land, and the third one is in Ohio.

    Maybe it sounds like a big deal, but it's not. If you live long enough, you collect things. Some things you wish you hadn't collected.

    Houses are a huge drain on resources. Hotels are better for a change of view.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 08-17-2020 at 04:23 PM.

  4. #164
    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    A few years ago, I met an ESI-Se who was working on the lawn of the house across the street. She owns a lawn care company and was directing her employees in the proper use of chain saws. I went over to talk to her, and after ten or twenty minutes of me being me, she said that we should "go out for a burger and a beer but no sex" some time. I was floored at her directness, and agreed.
    I got her number and called her repeatedly and she finally agreed to go out. We had a great time and talked for eight hours without getting tired of each other, and then she refused to go out with me again.
    I've repeatedly asked her out, and she has repeatedly refused. Which sucks, because I like her. She's very similar to the ESI-Se that my ILI-Te buddy married.

    I recently got Gulenko's book about DCNH and read the descriptions of the ESI DCNH types. I'd call this woman a D type, given the fact that she owns her company. I'd also give the ESI wife of my ILI buddy a D designation, because she runs a part of the library system in their town.

    Gulenko said that the ESI D type rules the household and is a good provider for the family. This implies that the husband is not such a great provider, and I know a number of LIE's who don't actually make much money. I then recalled that, near the end of my date with the ESI-Se, when she and I had been talking in my house for hours, the subject of our respective levels of wealth came up (obliquely, very obliquely), and I frankly admitted that I had three houses to her one.
    That was strike one. She probably feels that she needs to control the home and the marriage, and she fears that she might not be able to do that with me.

    Then, I kept calling her for another date. This was strike two.
    She always refused. I've read conflicting things about ESI's. Some writers say that they are Aggressors and will ask a guy out and they hate it when a guy chases them. Others say that ESI's will never make the first move. The truth of the matter is that it probably depends on subtypes, or possibly DCNH, and I suspect that the ESI-Se or D-type is going to be the one who chases.
    To verify this, I called my ILI-Te buddy and asked him if he had asked his ESI-Se D-type wife out first, or if she was the one who suggested everything. He told me that she did the asking. He went on to say that he really hadn't had much experience with women prior to her (think, 40 year-old virgin), so he wasn't exactly aggressive.
    Lol. To say the least. Nor is he earning very much money. He gets a lot of money from his wealthy father, so her library income probably dominates the home finances. She probably picked up on that in an instant.

    When the ESI-Se and I were out on a date, she and I were talking about our ideas of a perfect mate. She showed me a picture of a (married) friend of hers. The guy was a dweebish ILI.
    In any case, it is clear to me that she wants to do the asking and her partner needs to be the passive one. Well, I'm not like that. So that is definitely strike two.

    Then, more recently, after I had resignedly placed her in the friend zone and was moving on to dating other women but was still thinking about her, she texted me out of the blue and started flirting. So I asked her out for a date again and again she refused. She said she only wants a business relationship with me.
    I'll chalk this up to her not seeing me as the guy she wants to get closer to, but not wishing to lose a potential business resource, either.
    Strike three. Game over.


    But this is good. I've learned something about myself and about ESI-Se D-types. I've learned that they probably won't be compatible with me.
    Damn, I'm glad that most people instinctively know what they want. I, myself, have to puzzle it out from clues.

    This also implies that, while I fit much of Gulenko's description of the LIE Normalizing type, I'm at heart a D-type myself.
    I feel motivated to tell you about this piece of very valuable relationship advice, even though I won't be efficient at explaining it, but its basically a simple solution. I feel moved to try my best to explain it to you here, because I keep thinking it will be quite valuable to add to your bag of tricks.. LOL, I mean, your methods of securing your Dual spouse.

    This relationship advice came from a mega-bestseller among Christian books, called Love Must Be Tough, by Dr. James Dobson. So many copies were sold and there have been many re-printings that there is a ton out there and you can buy a used on Amazon starting at 40 cents. Any edition will do. I just gave away 2/3rds of my precious books that I love, survivors of many previous cullings. One of them was this book, and it was hard to part with as I have lent it to many. In fact it was the 3rd copy I'd owned since many people forget to return books, but I wanted to keep owning a copy of it since it had helped many.

    The goal of James Dobson (founder of "Focus on the family" Institute) in this book was to save marriages, particularly to help the spouse whose spouse was straying from the marriage, often for an affair, or from boredom or disinterest. The book tells the method for winning them back.

    When I Google "straying spouse" I see all kinds of advice which is exactly what Dobson describes and relegates to his "NEVER Do This" category, which includes everything you are tempted to do: Beg, plead, reason, have a sit-down talk, ingratiate yourself, cry pitifully, promise to be better, etc., etc. Dobson has a simple but different solution that is easy and TRUE HELP for someone in this desperate situation.

    I know you are not desperate, Adam, but this advice is great for ESI's like above*, who are inexplicitly backing away, to bring them back, if possible. And you must ensure also you do not do any of the normal responses that will certainly drive them further away..

    There are basic principles and Dobson tells them, but they center on this theme: Never act desperate to keep them, instead, calmly accept their decision to leave, saying something like, "I am sorry you want to leave. I love you and care for you deeply and would like you to stay, but I respect your decision to go away. I will miss you but I want you to be happy and I want to give you the space to do this if that is what yo want." (I don't have the book here to check, but that is the gist of it). You show deep respect for their need for space [Also, he explains, respect yourself and make them respect you by never letting let them have that "exploration space" in your shared home. They need to leave for this].

    Okay, here is the simple thing you do, the central theme, that is hard to explain without a picture. But this works for not just marriages but new or old relationships and friendships.

    Dobson draws a simple childlike drawing int he text to go with his explanation.

    Scenario ONE:

    The picture is two hands, index fingers pointing up, about 6" apart from each other. The picture represents the two spouses, the 6" away represents their normal space between them.

    Spouse #1 gets bored/restless, discontent, so he/she increases the distance, moving in the opposite direction of their spouse, 3-6" away from them.

    The further the distance created, the more panicked Spouse#2 gets, wanting to remedy this alarming situation, so she/he closes the distance, going after #1, trying to maintain that 6" space!

    Spouse #1, the man (or woman) with a mission, still needing the extra space he feels he must have, keeps on moving!

    Spouse #2 wit more determination than ever keeps moving after Spouse #1 to get back the 6" space, and this is going nowhere good. Spouse #2 can't win.

    ____________

    Scenario TWO:

    Begins in same way as above, with the two spouses 6" apart.

    Spouse #1 wants space, or to explore another relationship, so begins moving left away from Spouse #2.

    Spouse #2 does not chase him. He allows the space to increase. I think Spouse #2 may begin to wander further away himself.

    Spouse number #1 looks back and says, "Hey, wait a minute, this increased space is uncomfortable!" or, "Hey, I am the one increasing space. Why is he/she increasing it?" He starts to close back in a bit and see what Spouse #2 is up to. Is she still there for him?

    You see, the only way top get them back is to let them go, or even move further away.

    ___________

    Dobson explains a lot of simple things related things on how to play this in the book. Rule Number One is never let them see the book! Hide it. Because if they read it and see what you are doing, it's game over, and they are free to wander away again, as there is no curiosity to bring them back. You keep up a "mystery", polite, and not overplaying it. You stay polite, not troubled, and definitely not "desperate," ever. Your regret at the relationship not working is very matter-of-fact, calm and accepting. So this book describes a very practical method. And it works! Try it once and you will find other uses for it. I have. My sis-in-law saved her marriage with it; she used that book, and attributes it to the saving of her marriage. Two kids and many years in a conflictor marriage! It's been challenge for both but both are glad to have stayed an intact family for their kids most especially.

    So Adam, this seems like it might help you with the ESI above, or at least certainly with similar situations. Sorry I can't check for typos but I have spent way too long on this! More thoughts below on that ESI:


    __________
    *Also the ESI would have an exquisite personal feeling reaction to an 8 hour "date" with a dual who only just before had been a basically a stranger, like in the situation you describe here. I kind of understand her use of Fi , which may not be so different from mine, even though she is my Supervisee. She would want to take this wealth of feeling-reactions that came from this long day of extroverted interactions deep INSIDE herself, alone, away from prying eyes, to give it all the time she needs to contemplate and think it through. Without any outside input! You don't want to disturb that process by appearing to be pressuring her or waiting for her action-response. Sort of like a hungry wild animal you just gave a food offering to. You withdraw, let them eat, and don't hover. You respect the distance they need to be comfortable eating. Particularly if she liked you and it's clear you are a good match, and you are available, and you are interested. That surely must increase the need for space. That is a lot to contemplate, especially if she wasn't feeling ready for a relationship, and cautions that came up in the conversation require exploring, i.e., you make more or as much as she does and that feels intimidating, and she has to figure out for herself how she could live with/deal with that. Also, you say her comfort zone is "dweebish ILI" and you are a quite a departure from that - she needs time and space to think how/if she can handle this new and unknown.

    I think if you ever even imply a push for a response from her concerning the next step, before she had made decision after her necessary introverted contemplation, the safest, automatic, expected reply from her would be "No way, no thanks." So much better than to later regret having too soon and too unknowingly said yes to unforeseen dangers and discomforts! Yes, you are a force to be reckoned with, and that force requires her to put her arm out straight and keep the force back a bit. Space please. Back off now. If/when she is ready, the arm comes down, welcoming you to make that move she knew you had in you all along.

    I think Extroverted Gamma types, both you and SEE, tend to be like, "Okay, it's obvious, and to both of us: we are a match. Now let's lay the cards on the table and move this forward!" I think Introverted Gamma really don't want to be rushed and you need to make yourself scarce like you would with that hungry wild animal. The fact that she wrote you flirting texts now that you have accepted the distance does not surprise me. She has not actually closed that door.

    If any ESI's are reading this, feedback would be helpful, since I am not an ESI. Does my read of what is going on in ESI's head seem plausible?
    Last edited by Eliza Thomason; 08-17-2020 at 08:58 PM.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  5. #165
    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    I feel motivated to tell you about this piece of very valuable relationship advice, even though I won't be efficient at explaining it, but its basically a simple solution. I feel moved to try my best to explain it to you here, because I keep thinking it will be quite valuable to add to your bag of tricks.. LOL, I mean, your methods of securing your Dual spouse.

    This relationship advice came from a mega-bestseller among Christian books, called Love Must Be Tough, by Dr. James Dobson. So many copies were sold and there have been many re-printings that there is a ton out there and you can buy a used on Amazon starting at 40 cents. Any edition will do. I just gave away 2/3rds of my precious books that I love, survivors of many previous cullings. One of them was this book, and it was hard to part with as I have lent it to many. In fact it was the 3rd copy I'd owned since many people forget to return books, but I wanted to keep owning a copy of it since it had helped many.

    The goal of James Dobson (founder of "Focus on the family" Institute) in this book was to save marriages, particularly to help the spouse whose spouse was straying from the marriage, often for an affair, or from boredom or disinterest. The book tells the method for winning them back.

    When I Google "straying spouse" I see all kinds of advice which is exactly what Dobson describes and relegates to his "NEVER Do This" category, which includes everything you are tempted to do: Beg, plead, reason, have a sit-down talk, ingratiate yourself, cry pitifully, promise to be better, etc., etc. Dobson has a simple but different solution that is easy and TRUE HELP for someone in this desperate situation.

    I know you are not desperate, Adam, but this advice is great for ESI's like above*, who are inexplicitly backing away, to bring them back, if possible. And you must ensure also you do not do any of the normal responses that will certainly drive them further away..

    There are basic principles and Dobson tells them, but they center on this theme: Never act desperate to keep them, instead, calmly accept their decision to leave, saying something like, "I am sorry you want to leave. I love you and care for you deeply and would like you to stay, but I respect your decision to go away. I will miss you but I want you to be happy and I want to give you the space to do this if that is what yo want." (I don't have the book here to check, but that is the gist of it). You show deep respect for their need for space [Also, he explains, respect yourself and make them respect you by never letting let them have that "exploration space" in your shared home. They need to leave for this].

    Okay, here is the simple thing you do, the central theme, that is hard to explain without a picture. But this works for not just marriages but new or old relationships and friendships.

    Dobson draws a simple childlike drawing int he text to go with his explanation.

    Scenario ONE:

    The picture is two hands, index fingers pointing up, about 6" apart from each other. The picture represents the two spouses, the 6" away represents their normal space between them.

    Spouse #1 gets bored/restless, discontent, so he/she increases the distance, moving in the opposite direction of their spouse, 3-6" away from them.

    The further the distance created, the more panicked Spouse#2 gets, wanting to remedy this alarming situation, so she/he closes the distance, going after #1, trying to maintain that 6" space!

    Spouse #1, the man (or woman) with a mission, still needing the extra space he feels he must have, keeps on moving!

    Spouse #2 wit more determination than ever keeps moving after Spouse #1 to get back the 6" space, and this is going nowhere good. Spouse #2 can't win.

    ____________

    Scenario TWO:

    Begins in same way as above, with the two spouses 6" apart.

    Spouse #1 wants space, or to explore another relationship, so begins moving left away from Spouse #2.

    Spouse #2 does not chase him. He allows the space to increase. I think Spouse #2 may begin to wander further away himself.

    Spouse number #1 looks back and says, "Hey, wait a minute, this increased space is uncomfortable!" or, "Hey, I am the one increasing space. Why is he/she increasing it?" He starts to close back in a bit and see what Spouse #2 is up to. Is she still there for him?

    You see, the only way top get them back is to let them go, or even move further away.

    ___________

    Dobson explains a lot of simple things related things on how to play this in the book. Rule Number One is never let them see the book! Hide it. Because if they read it and see what you are doing, it's game over, and they are free to wander away again, as there is no curiosity to bring them back. You keep up a "mystery", polite, and not overplaying it. You stay polite, not troubled, and definitely not "desperate," ever. Your regret at the relationship not working is very matter-of-fact, calm and accepting. So this book describes a very practical method. And it works! Try it once and you will find other uses for it. I have. My sis-in-law saved her marriage with it; she used that book, and attributes it to the saving of her marriage. Two kids and many years in a conflictor marriage! It's been challenge for both but both are glad to have stayed an intact family for their kids most especially.

    So Adam, this seems like it might help you with the ESI above, or at least certainly with similar situations. Sorry I can't check for typos but I have spent way too long on this! More thoughts below on that ESI:


    __________
    *Also the ESI would have an exquisite personal feeling reaction to an 8 hour "date" with a dual who only just before had been a basically a stranger, like in the situation you describe here. I kind of understand her use of Fi , which may not be so different from mine, even though she is my Supervisee. She would want to take this wealth of feeling-reactions that came from this long day of extroverted interactions deep INSIDE herself, alone, away from prying eyes, to give it all the time she needs to contemplate and think it through. Without any outside input! You don't want to disturb that process by appearing to be pressuring her or waiting for her action-response. Sort of like a hungry wild animal you just gave a food offering to. You withdraw, let them eat, and don't hover. You respect the distance they need to be comfortable eating. Particularly if she liked you and it's clear you are a good match, and you are available, and you are interested. That surely must increase the need for space. That is a lot to contemplate, especially if she wasn't feeling ready for a relationship, and cautions that came up in the conversation require exploring, i.e., you make more or as much as she does and that feels intimidating, and she has to figure out for herself how she could live with/deal with that. Also, you say her comfort zone is "dweebish ILI" and you are a quite a departure from that - she needs time and space to think how/if she can handle this new and unknown.

    I think if you ever even imply a push for a response from her concerning the next step, before she had made decision after her necessary introverted contemplation, the safest, automatic, expected reply from her would be "No way, no thanks." So much better than to later regret having too soon and too unknowingly said yes to unforeseen dangers and discomforts! Yes, you are a force to be reckoned with, and that force requires her to put her arm out straight and keep the force back a bit. Space please. Back off now. If/when she is ready, the arm comes down, welcoming you to make that move she knew you had in you all along.

    I think Extroverted Gamma types, both you and SEE, tend to be like, "Okay, it's obvious, and to both of us: we are a match. Now let's lay the cards on the table and move this forward!" I think Introverted Gamma really don't want to be rushed and you need to make yourself scarce like you would with that hungry wild animal. The fact that she wrote you flirting texts now that you have accepted the distance does not surprise me. She has not actually closed that door.

    If any ESI's are reading this, feedback would be helpful, since I am not an ESI. Does my read of what is going on in ESI's head seem plausible?
    Thanks, Eliza. I really appreciate all the work you put into that reply. And the advice is excellent. I didn't know about Fi-doms needing time to process their thoughts, but now I do. Thanks for that.

    It is interesting that you suggested that I simply tell her that I respect her wishes, and then withdraw and give her space. When she said last week that she only wanted a business relationship with me, I texted her back and said "I respect that. I know that you know what you want, and I have to say, I hope you will change your mind sometime in the future, but as for now, a business relationship is fine."

    However, Eliza, I really don't think she's interested in me, Dual or not-Dual. I've known her for years, and that one date was a very long time ago. If she really wanted a closer relationship, she'd have said something by now.

    You know how people can talk about the weather, and simultaneously be describing their true thoughts about marriage or a friend or some problematic person at work? She has done this to me. Once, when I called her about doing some work in the yard, she said the phrase "I don't think they've lost interest yet entirely." She might have been describing a plant's interest in blooming or something, but I took it as an unconscious comment on my interest in her. That happened after a long hiatus during which I didn't call her.

    Another thing that I thought was strange was a time, not a date, when she asked me to listen to her car and see if something was loose in the suspension. We drove around and I could hear the noise, and I thought it might be a deteriorating universal joint going to a wheel. These can fail if the boot is cracked, so I parked the car in a lot and scooted under it to look at the universal joint and to see if it had any free play in the critical direction.
    Normally, when a guy demonstrates a high level of car-fixing ability, a woman really warms up to him. Not her. She seemed colder towards me after that than she was before. I think this indicates that she sees my mechanical skills as competition. And being a woman in a man's world, she doesn't need any more of that at home.

    Truthfully, at this point, I think her interest in me mainly revolves around the fact that I pay my bills on time.

    As for her flirting, you know, she's a single woman living alone and she probably wants some male attention every once in a while. That flirting lasted as long as her mood that day, and hasn't been repeated.

    Nope. To paraphrase the Magic 8-Ball, "All signs point to No." I don't think she's interested, I believe that she's demonstrating her decision by her actions, and I firmly believe that persistence in the face of disinterest is a waste of time.

    BUT, as I said in my earlier post, I learned a lot from this. LIE's can be relentless in their pursuit of a goal and simultaneously be completely tone-deaf when it comes to people's feelings. I'm like that. But now I better understand that she wants to take the lead in a relationship and wants a guy who is more pliable and who has much less Se than I do, and I can easily accept that perspective and move on to someone who is a better match.

    Again, thanks for your thoughts. I'm definitely going to keep your advice on Fi in mind when talking with the next female.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 08-17-2020 at 09:49 PM.

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    LIE: Look at this amazing lakeside house!
    ESI: Think of the mosquitoes, though.
    Johari/Nohari

    "Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."

    Fruit, the fluffy kitty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuddly McFluffles View Post
    LIE: Look at this amazing lakeside house!
    ESI: Think of the mosquitoes, though.
    You are exactly right. The place is home to billions of hungry mosquitoes.

    https://i.imgur.com/FZTGLNE.jpg

    There is a pond on the other side of the yellow flowers, and a stream leading through a swamp to a lake on the other side of the trees. Hungry, hungry mosquitoes.
    It's not ON a lake, it's only NEAR a lake.

    Now, if I had been Dualized, I might not have bought it. Because, you know, ESI's are often right.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 08-17-2020 at 10:53 PM.

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    Male LIE: Hey, do you want to go out sometime?

    Female ESI #1: I really don't seem to have much spare time. I think I might have something else planned. Whenever you call.

    Female ESI #2: Haha.

    Female ESI #3: No.

    Female ESI #4: Are you around at all next week? I'd love to see you when I'm in town.


    Yeah, I made up #4.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Male LIE: Hey, do you want to go out sometime?

    Female ESI #1: I really don't seem to have much spare time. I think I might have something else planned. Whenever you call.

    Female ESI #2: Haha.

    Female ESI #3: No.

    Female ESI #4: Are you around at all next week? I'd love to see you when I'm in town.


    Yeah, I made up #4.
    aw. Hard day, huh?
    I make lists like this when it's been a hard day

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    Quote Originally Posted by nanashi View Post
    aw. Hard day, huh?
    I make lists like this when it's been a hard day
    They say you can't hide things from an Identical. Lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    They say you can't hide things from an Identical. Lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    They say you can't hide things from an Identical. Lol.
    sits next to you in solidarity

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Mark the Newsreader = possible LSE, Elizabeth Gentle = ESI. Antoine Dodson = IEI, Crime scene investigator = ESI

    "Hide your kids, hide your wife, an' hide (uninteligible) because they rapin' anybody out here." LMFAO.

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    Lettuce pretend this counts:

    ESI-Se: give me the burger

    ILI-Ni: *hands it over*

    ESI: *takes a bite opposite of where it had been previously bitten and hands it back*

    ILI: *looks at it*
    ILI: Who eats a burger like this?!
    Last edited by chocolatte; 08-30-2020 at 03:22 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    Lettuce pretend this counts:

    ESI-Se: give me the burger

    ILI-Ni: *hands it over*

    ESI: *takes a bite opposite of where it had been previously bitten and hands it back*

    ILI: *looks at it*
    ILI: Who eats a burger like this?!
    People protecting people from communicable diseases

    Nanashi is highly interested in this ESI-Se knowing only that they are ESI-Se and that they did that. sigh. What am I going to do with you, nanashi?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nanashi View Post
    People protecting people from communicable diseases

    Nanashi is highly interested in this ESI-Se knowing only that they are ESI-Se and that they did that. sigh. What am I going to do with you, nanashi?

    ESI and ILI have recently celebrated their 21st anniversary!

    oh actually they didn't because ESI is the least romantic person ever

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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post

    ESI and ILI have recently celebrated their 21st anniversary!

    oh actually they didn't because ESI is the least romantic person ever
    Maybe not. My last GF told me that I'm not very romantic, so I bought a book with the title 1001 Ways To Be Romantic.

    All the words were in English, but I could not make any sense out of the sentences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Maybe not. My last GF told me that I'm not very romantic, so I bought a book with the title 1001 Ways To Be Romantic.

    All the words were in English, but I could not make any sense out of the sentences.
    my EII mom said I'm not very romantic when I said to me romance would be me being so into a guy I gave up my single life and said 'where do I sign' and went to a justice of the peace straigthaway. I think I'm romantic in a 1930s male actor sorta way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Maybe not. My last GF told me that I'm not very romantic, so I bought a book with the title 1001 Ways To Be Romantic.

    All the words were in English, but I could not make any sense out of the sentences.
    ILI gets scolded for wasting money if he tries to buy her roses. views those gestures as superficial/useless because her position is that she already knows he loves her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nanashi View Post
    my EII mom said I'm not very romantic when I said to me romance would be me being so into a guy I gave up my single life and said 'where do I sign' and went to a justice of the peace straigthaway. I think I'm romantic in a 1930s male actor sorta way.
    @nanashi, that sounds like Katherine Hepburn in a romantic comedy with Spenser Tracy.

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    I worked on a government project two years ago, and one of the guys in the customer’s company was a 28 yo male ESI-Se e6 engineer. In meetings, he would kind of look to me for support without actually needing any support.

    The project’s objective was built, accepted, seriously broken in use (I have no idea how they broke it. It was designed to survive 100 g shocks), and returned for repair. The ESI engineer is now in charge of that repair, and he called me with some questions about how to disassemble it, even though he was one of the team that assembled it in the first place.

    I gave him some simple advice that he already knew, because that’s all there is to that particular task. He thanked me and said that really helped.
    I was puzzled because he already had that information. I think it is possible that he just needed a bit of encouragement from a Dual, to be honest.

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    I had a date with an ESI (?) who lives an hour away in another town. I gave her directions to the restaurant, the address of the parking lot, my phone number and a time to meet.
    She called me five minutes after we were supposed to meet and said she thought she might be in the wrong parking lot. She was, because I was in the right lot and she wasn't there. She described the parking lot as a brick building, but when I eventually found it, it was an open lot next to a brick building.
    She said she was having trouble with her car. When she parked, it wouldn't turn off. Then she reparked and the steering froze, but the car did turn off that time. I told her to call the dealer and get it checked, and if she needs a ride anywhere, I could take her there. But then she tried starting the car again, and it started normally and turned off normally, so who knows? Maybe she was in a distracted panic mode when she parked. IDK.
    As we were walking towards the restaurant, she said she was glad she knew someone who would help her in this strange city. I said, No problem, I'm just a phone call away and if she has any further problems, I'll come and help her.

    I was reminded of this convo when Northstar posted this video (https://youtu.be/N0H48bpJziQ) of a male ESI singing a song. Here are the lyrics.

    Lady in Black

    Uriah Heep



    She came to me one morning
    One lonely Sunday morning
    Her long hair flowing in the mid-winter wind
    I know not how she found me
    For in darkness I was walking
    And destruction lay around me
    From a fight I could not win
    Ah, ah, ah



    She asked me name my foe then
    I said the need within some men
    To fight and kill their brothers without thought of men or God
    And I begged her give me horses
    To trample down my enemies
    So eager was my passion to devour this waste of life
    Ah, ah, ah



    But she would not think of battle that
    Reduces men to animals
    So easy to begin and yet impossible to end
    For she the mother of all men
    Had counciled me so wisely that
    I feared to walk alone again
    And asked if she would stay
    Ah, ah, ah




    Oh, lady, lend your hand, I cried
    Oh, let me rest here at your side
    Have faith and trust in me, she said and filled my heart with life
    There is no strength in numbers
    I've no such misconceptions
    But when you need me be assured I won't be far away
    Ah, ah, ah



    Thus having spoke she turned away
    And though I found no words to say
    I stood and watched until I saw her black cloak disappear
    My labor is no easier
    But now I know I'm not alone
    I find new heart each time I think upon that windy day
    And if one day she comes to you
    Drink deeply from her words so wise
    Take courage from her as your prize and say hello for me
    Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah







    Incidentally, she was dressed in heels, stockings, a light blue skirt and a bright, very colorful flower pattern top, and I was dressed all in black, from my black dress shoes to my black wool frock overcoat. Black on black. Lol. Se vs. Ni.

    Now, the main thing that concerns me is that she looks an awful lot like an SEI most of the time. But Duals can look like conflictors, right?

    ...and Conflictors can look like Duals......
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 09-26-2020 at 05:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I had a date with an ESI (?) who lives an hour away in another town. I gave her directions to the restaurant, the address of the parking lot, my phone number and a time to meet.
    She called me five minutes after we were supposed to meet and said she thought she might be in the wrong parking lot. She was, because I was in the right lot and she wasn't there. She described the parking lot as a brick building, but when I eventually found it, it was an open lot next to a brick building.
    She said she was having trouble with her car. When she parked, it wouldn't turn off. Then she reparked and the steering froze, but the car did turn off that time. I told her to call the dealer and get it checked, and if she needs a ride anywhere, I could take her there. But then she tried starting the car again, and it started normally and turned off normally, so who knows? Maybe she was in a distracted panic mode when she parked. IDK.
    As we were walking towards the restaurant, she said she was glad she knew someone who would help her in this strange city. I said, No problem, I'm just a phone call away and if she has any further problems, I'll come and help her.

    I was reminded of this convo when Northstar posted this video (https://youtu.be/N0H48bpJziQ) of a male ESI singing a song. Here are the lyrics.

    Lady in Black

    Uriah Heep



    She came to me one morning
    One lonely Sunday morning
    Her long hair flowing in the mid-winter wind
    I know not how she found me
    For in darkness I was walking
    And destruction lay around me
    From a fight I could not win
    Ah, ah, ah



    She asked me name my foe then
    I said the need within some men
    To fight and kill their brothers without thought of men or God
    And I begged her give me horses
    To trample down my enemies
    So eager was my passion to devour this waste of life
    Ah, ah, ah



    But she would not think of battle that
    Reduces men to animals
    So easy to begin and yet impossible to end
    For she the mother of all men
    Had counciled me so wisely that
    I feared to walk alone again
    And asked if she would stay
    Ah, ah, ah




    Oh, lady, lend your hand, I cried
    Oh, let me rest here at your side
    Have faith and trust in me, she said and filled my heart with life
    There is no strength in numbers
    I've no such misconceptions
    But when you need me be assured I won't be far away
    Ah, ah, ah



    Thus having spoke she turned away
    And though I found no words to say
    I stood and watched until I saw her black cloak disappear
    My labor is no easier
    But now I know I'm not alone
    I find new heart each time I think upon that windy day
    And if one day she comes to you
    Drink deeply from her words so wise
    Take courage from her as your prize and say hello for me
    Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah







    Incidentally, she was dressed in heels, stockings, a light blue skirt and a bright, very colorful flower pattern top, and I was dressed all in black, from my black dress shoes to my black wool frock overcoat. Black on black. Lol. Se vs. Ni.

    Now, the main thing that concerns me is that she looks an awful lot like an SEI most of the time. But Duals can look like conflictors, right?

    ...and Conflictors can look like Duals......
    A few men independently over years said I reminded them of a Valkyrie. reminds me of this

    One said he felt rescued.

    The flip side is you have to manage your being there for people...not be unjust, etc

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I had a date with an ESI (?) who lives an hour away in another town. I gave her directions to the restaurant, the address of the parking lot, my phone number and a time to meet.
    She called me five minutes after we were supposed to meet and said she thought she might be in the wrong parking lot. She was, because I was in the right lot and she wasn't there. She described the parking lot as a brick building, but when I eventually found it, it was an open lot next to a brick building.
    She said she was having trouble with her car. When she parked, it wouldn't turn off. Then she reparked and the steering froze, but the car did turn off that time. I told her to call the dealer and get it checked, and if she needs a ride anywhere, I could take her there. But then she tried starting the car again, and it started normally and turned off normally, so who knows? Maybe she was in a distracted panic mode when she parked. IDK.
    As we were walking towards the restaurant, she said she was glad she knew someone who would help her in this strange city. I said, No problem, I'm just a phone call away and if she has any further problems, I'll come and help her.

    I was reminded of this convo when Northstar posted this video (https://youtu.be/N0H48bpJziQ) of a male ESI singing a song. Here are the lyrics.

    Lady in Black

    Uriah Heep



    She came to me one morning
    One lonely Sunday morning
    Her long hair flowing in the mid-winter wind
    I know not how she found me
    For in darkness I was walking
    And destruction lay around me
    From a fight I could not win
    Ah, ah, ah



    She asked me name my foe then
    I said the need within some men
    To fight and kill their brothers without thought of men or God
    And I begged her give me horses
    To trample down my enemies
    So eager was my passion to devour this waste of life
    Ah, ah, ah



    But she would not think of battle that
    Reduces men to animals
    So easy to begin and yet impossible to end
    For she the mother of all men
    Had counciled me so wisely that
    I feared to walk alone again
    And asked if she would stay
    Ah, ah, ah




    Oh, lady, lend your hand, I cried
    Oh, let me rest here at your side
    Have faith and trust in me, she said and filled my heart with life
    There is no strength in numbers
    I've no such misconceptions
    But when you need me be assured I won't be far away
    Ah, ah, ah



    Thus having spoke she turned away
    And though I found no words to say
    I stood and watched until I saw her black cloak disappear
    My labor is no easier
    But now I know I'm not alone
    I find new heart each time I think upon that windy day
    And if one day she comes to you
    Drink deeply from her words so wise
    Take courage from her as your prize and say hello for me
    Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah







    Incidentally, she was dressed in heels, stockings, a light blue skirt and a bright, very colorful flower pattern top, and I was dressed all in black, from my black dress shoes to my black wool frock overcoat. Black on black. Lol. Se vs. Ni.

    Now, the main thing that concerns me is that she looks an awful lot like an SEI most of the time. But Duals can look like conflictors, right?

    ...and Conflictors can look like Duals......
    you don't need to know right now, Adam. It just feels like you need to know. Nervous is normal. You're going to explore it, and you'll check in with yourself later, but the answer right now is you don't know. You can stop introspecting. It's not our strong suit. And you can be your extroverted self. The thing is reining yourself in from pushing for alliance. Just show up and experience and treat you and her well. You'll either notice you're free to be yourself and are at home and feel positive or you'll feel like you do around nice SEI...

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    "it's like ESI always has a disconnect between her expectations and what she ends up doing, but it's fine because then i get more reason to make fun of her"

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    I'm beginning to think that the "ESI" I went on a date with didn't just look like an SEI, she might actually be an SEI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I'm beginning to think that the "ESI" I went on a date with didn't just look like an SEI, she might actually be an SEI.
    Why?
    Views and clicks make these grow.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I'm beginning to think that the "ESI" I went on a date with didn't just look like an SEI, she might actually be an SEI.
    I'm going to be honest, right at the beginning, reading the part about her not being able to park the car (poor functional Te), not knowing enough about the car to use it properly (poor hands on Te), ending up in the wrong place and describing it poorly (poor descriptive Te/Se), and being late, rather than early (doesn't sound Ij), I immediately was reminded of SEIs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    Just rename this place Beta Central lmao
    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightWilderness View Post
    The only problem socionics has given me is a propensity to analyze every relationship from the lens of socionics and I also see that it is worse in my boyfriend. Nothing makes any sense that way and it does not really solve any problems.





  29. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    I'm going to be honest, right at the beginning, reading the part about her not being able to park the car (poor functional Te), not knowing enough about the car to use it properly (poor hands on Te), ending up in the wrong place and describing it poorly (poor descriptive Te/Se), and being late, rather than early (doesn't sound Ij), I immediately was reminded of SEIs.
    Thanks, @Nobody.

    Yes, I agree. There are other signs that she is SEI. Her Si is phenomenal. She dresses as well as my SLI ex, which is saying something. I've never met another woman who dresses with the same good taste that my ex did.

    Her comments about our lunch date were all about how it tasted and how she felt.

    She showed me pictures of her family. Her father looks SLI or ESE (Si for sure) and her son looks LII (Alpha). Her ex-husband looks like an ESE, or less likely, an ILE, the picture wasn't clear. She is complaining that he keeps asking her for money.

    She does not seem like an Aggressor, but more like a Caregiver. She works as a Nurse.

    I may have done the classic Second-wife thing, and found a woman who is a twin to my ex-wife. FML.

    Arguments on the ESI side are that
    1. her ex told her that he had never been satisfied with her in their entire marriage.
    2. She seems to be absorbing my Te conversations without comment. Either it's a case of her being SEI and getting Te like a deer in the headlights, or she's ESI and just encountering Te for the first time in a Dual. I can't tell which one it is. I mean, when I first started hanging out with an LSI Aggressor after my marriage, it was like stepping from a dark cave into the light of Fi-Role.
    3. She looks SEI most of the time, but not strongly like an SEI. When I was talking with her about investing, her face turned entirely to an ESI's.

    My theory at this point is that she's an ESI who has been surrounded by Alphas all her life and has made the best of it by adapting. I could be wrong.

    At this point, I really don't know. I've been talking with her for five months but we've only met once. I will say that I was pretty comfortable with talking to her in person, while my lunch with an SEI was an experience I don't wish to repeat. I like SEI's a lot for about five minutes, and then things become increasingly strained until I just have to get out of there.

    Other potential problems are that she has a nice house on a lake that is an hour's drive away from me, and she lists her political affiliation as Republican. Not good.

    I've read that a woman knows within seconds whether she would sleep with a guy or not. When I walked up to her car, she got out and did a slow turn so I could see her from all angles. Would an SEI do that? IDK. Probably that's not a diferentiator between SEI and ESI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I've read that a woman knows within seconds whether she would sleep with a guy or not. When I walked up to her car, she got out and did a slow turn so I could see her from all angles. Would an SEI do that? IDK. Probably that's not a diferentiator between SEI and ESI.
    I don't know, but it does sound like Se a little.

    It sounds like she wouldn't even know if she was SEI or ESI though. I knew a supervisor relationship between an SEI and an LSE. The LSE would try and get the SEI involved in whatever tasks they were doing and he would get mad at her for not anticipating what needed to be done. He needed to spell everything out and they would get mad at each other. Their relationship didn't last, even though she admired his Te.
    So, just a thought, but maybe you could try doing something Te heavy and she if she's receptive or not? And since I'm living vicariously through you, let us know how it turns out.
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    Just rename this place Beta Central lmao
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    The only problem socionics has given me is a propensity to analyze every relationship from the lens of socionics and I also see that it is worse in my boyfriend. Nothing makes any sense that way and it does not really solve any problems.





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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    I don't know, but it does sound like Se a little.

    It sounds like she wouldn't even know if she was SEI or ESI though. I knew a supervisor relationship between an SEI and an LSE. The LSE would try and get the SEI involved in whatever tasks they were doing and he would get mad at her for not anticipating what needed to be done. He needed to spell everything out and they would get mad at each other. Their relationship didn't last, even though she admired his Te.
    So, just a thought, but maybe you could try doing something Te heavy and she if she's receptive or not? And since I'm living vicariously through you, let us know how it turns out.
    I will keep posting here until this relationship either takes off or crashes. She seems to be in no hurry to move it along.

    In the meanwhile, I have my life to live, and the search for someone to share it goes on.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 10-03-2020 at 08:31 PM.

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    OK, it had to happen eventually. I found @ashlesha's clone on Match. Too bad she lives over an hour away.


    Here is what she said in her profile. An ESI being an ESI and subconsciously looking for an LIE:

    These dating apps SUCK! I’m looking for good company! Someone who appreciates good music, good food, good wine and even better conversations. I’m attracted to some one who is quick witted, and I can engage with in playful banter. I enjoy learning about people, different cultures and ancient archeology. I enjoy the arts, live music, the theater, museums and architecture. Fine dinning and dive bars. At this stage in my life international travel is an important endeavor, so many places to go and people to meet and so little time. I enjoy being out doors, from the forest, mountains, ocean and the desert.

    She even looks like ashlesha. Lol. Plus, she an RN which half the female ESI's are.

    But again, she’s over an hour away. Oh, well.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 10-22-2020 at 07:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    OK, it had to happen eventually. I found @ashlesha's clone on Match. Too bad she lives over an hour away.


    Here is what she said in her profile. An ESI being an ESI and subconsciously looking for an LIE:

    These dating apps SUCK! I’m looking for good company! Someone who appreciates good music, good food, good wine and even better conversations. I’m attracted to some one who is quick witted, and I can engage with in playful banter. I enjoy learning about people, different cultures and ancient archeology. I enjoy the arts, live music, the theater, museums and architecture. Fine dinning and dive bars. At this stage in my life international travel is an important endeavor, so many places to go and people to meet and so little time. I enjoy being out doors, from the forest, mountains, ocean and the desert.

    She even looks like ashlesha. Lol. Plus, she an RN which half the female ESI's are.
    An hour, or even two, is not much when you consider how big the world is, both in terms of distance and how few good matches there are.
    Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    An hour, or even two, is not much when you consider how big the world is, both in terms of distance and how few good matches there are.
    Did I mention that she just dyed her hair purple? Which I think is awesome and says that a woman is ready to rock and roll with a new guy, but I’m not sure if that fits in with my lifestyle.

    I don’t know. She might be fun. I messaged her. We’ll see if she messages back. She might not. It takes two to tango, and she might not like my profile.

    The biggest problem with Duality is that the two people are almost complete opposites with very different areas of interest, and the Duality part isn't at all clear over text.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Did I mention that she just dyed her hair purple?
    Looks like you didn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Which I think is awesome and says that a woman is ready to rock and roll with a new guy, but I’m not sure if that fits in with my lifestyle.

    I don’t know. She might be fun. I messaged her. We’ll see if she messages back. She might not. It takes two to tango, and she might not like my profile.


    Do you ever listen to podcasts while driving?
    Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Looks like you didn't.




    Do you ever listen to podcasts while driving?
    All the time. Do you have some recommendations, or was that just a suggestion for making the time spent driving for an hour not a complete waste of time?

    I would love to have a self-driving car that I trusted. Or better yet, a train that goes between cities.

    A Google self-driving car just drove into a section of the road that had just been poured with fresh cement a couple blocks from my house. Everyone was standing around, looking at the car up to its doors in wet cement, watching the cement harden. I don't want to have an AI do that to me by mistaking a bridge abutment for a storm cloud on the horizon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    All the time. Do you have some recommendations, or was that just a suggestion for making the time spent driving for an hour not a complete waste of time?
    Suggestions are funny things. I feel weird offering them unless I'm fairly confident they'll be useful and wanted. But, yes, it was a partial suggestion and also a casual quest for more ideas for myself. I don't drive a ton these days, but I do like listening to new thoughts while I do household tasks like clean or cook.

    What are some of your favorites?


    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I would love to have a self-driving car that I trusted. Or better yet, a train that goes between cities.

    A Google self-driving car just drove into a section of the road that had just been poured with fresh cement a couple blocks from my house. Everyone was standing around, looking at the car up to its doors in wet cement, watching the cement harden. I don't want to have an AI do that to me by mistaking a bridge abutment for a storm cloud on the horizon.
    Indeed.

    My dad LOVES to retell the story of one of the first self-driving cars that drove into a river because the ferry wasn't actually there at that moment. He worked in technology before it was even a proper profession and despite that I think he'd probably try it out. He has some interesting risk assessments post-retirement.
    Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    OK, it had to happen eventually. I found @ashlesha's clone on Match. Too bad she lives over an hour away.


    Here is what she said in her profile. An ESI being an ESI and subconsciously looking for an LIE:

    These dating apps SUCK! I’m looking for good company! Someone who appreciates good music, good food, good wine and even better conversations. I’m attracted to some one who is quick witted, and I can engage with in playful banter. I enjoy learning about people, different cultures and ancient archeology. I enjoy the arts, live music, the theater, museums and architecture. Fine dinning and dive bars. At this stage in my life international travel is an important endeavor, so many places to go and people to meet and so little time. I enjoy being out doors, from the forest, mountains, ocean and the desert.

    She even looks like ashlesha. Lol. Plus, she an RN which half the female ESI's are.

    But again, she’s over an hour away. Oh, well.
    I was thinking EII or EXFp, reading that, so ...maybe I need to expand my idea of how ESI might present on a dating site

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    The 44 yo never-been-married ESI whom I went on one date with two years ago and who looks like Peggy Lee and owns a lawn care company called me and asked if I know a good plumber. I gave her the name of a guy that I use and she thanked me and then said she had some other questions.

    One of them was whether or not I still saw my ex-wife, and I said that she has been with her new BF since March and I'm glad she found someone. This ESI has insisted on keeping our relationship strictly business, but she remembered the name of my son and my ex. She seems really concerned about whether or not I still see my ex, like that is a huge deal for her for some obscure reason. I repeated that No, I don't see her much anymore at all. The ESI was laughing and kind of teasing on the phone and I thought she sounded horny but I figured that she is Avoidant and I'm not going to try to kick Lucy's football again until she clearly asks for it.

    She then asked me if I knew anything about plumbing myself and I said I did. She asked me if I thought I could change a 3/4" valve from round-handle compression style to a lever-handled ball valve, and I said I could and I might even have the valve she needs in my basement, but I'd have to see the valve in question to know for sure, since they come in different styles.

    She said, "Can you be absolutely sure that you can change the valve, or not? I don't want to be without hot water for a day."

    "No, I can't be absolutely sure, not until I see the valve."

    "It's in my basement."

    "I'm busy right now, but I could be there in an hour to look at it and then I could tell you either A. I can fix it immediately, or B. I don't have the shutoff valve that will fit and you'll have to wait until Saturday when I can buy the right valve and install it."

    "You could be here in an hour?" Now she wasn't sounding so bright and perky.

    "Yes."

    "How do I know that you'll keep your word?"

    "What? It's ten minutes to collect the tools, ten minutes out the door and twenty minutes to your place. I doubt if I'll get lost."

    "But you aren't certain that you can fix it. Never mind. I'll just call a plumber tomorrow." Lol.

    "OK, fine. Let me know if you need any more help." Like when you're eighty.


    See, for example, the first line under the heading "Chapter Four. Overview."

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ng-an-ISFj-ESI
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 10-23-2020 at 05:56 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    [story about ESI and water pipes]
    ... Could she take a picture of the valve so you could see it? Or call a plumber if you got there and it wasn't the right one? I feel like there are a few more options than what was considered and eliminated, lol. Maybe she was flustered and they didn't occur to her.

    I'm not an ESI, but when I was single one of my plausibly deniable flirting techniques was to ask for advice or help. I had a very similar interaction to the one you describe with my now-husband a few months before we started dating. My car brakes needed replacing and I made a FB post asking for advice from anyone who cared to answer. Of course, the kind of person who would answer and be actually helpful is the kind of person I wanted to interact with more, and I figured it could be a great opportunity to build up some relational strength/ties. My now-husband answered with not only advice but an offer to help me do it if I could bring my car out to where he lived. It turned out those particular brakes were the more complicated kind, and I ended up determining that it would be more practical and efficient to just take it into my regular mechanic, especially since he lived 45 minutes away and I would have been cold the whole time. I wasn't that motivated. So I never actually utilized the offered help.

    Fortunately he still invited me to group things he organized and included me on a few email list kinds of things and appeared at mutual friend gatherings, so I had more opportunities to explore his potential and create connection.

    So, anyway, different dynamic than your particular types, but I thought the similarity in situation was kinda interesting.
    Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.

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